northern soul - the current state...?

[Frankie Crocker]

6 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

State of the northern soul scene today? Let me ask...

Anybody here under the age of 50?

Anybody here under the age of 40?

Anybody here under the age of 30?

Anybody here under the age of 25?

There’s the state of the northern soul scene today.

It just occurred to me, is it the high prices of records that could be deterring youngsters from joining the scene or is it a range of other factors? Sure, not everyone on the scene today actually buys records but is it the impossibility of building a large collection putting off potential youngsters?

[Steve S 60]

7 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

It just occurred to me, is it the high prices of records that could be deterring youngsters from joining the scene or is it a range of other factors? Sure, not everyone on the scene today actually buys records but is it the impossibility of building a large collection putting off potential youngsters?

You never needed to have a record collection to be part of the scene at any time in its history.

[Guest Spain pete]

21 minutes ago, Steve S 60 said:

You never needed to have a record collection to be part of the scene at any time in its history.

Some joined up for that reason though

[Shinehead]

1 hour ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

It just occurred to me, is it the high prices of records that could be deterring youngsters from joining the scene or is it a range of other factors? Sure, not everyone on the scene today actually buys records but is it the impossibility of building a large collection putting off potential youngsters?

I would have thought the reason deterring youngsters from joining the scene is that it is an ancient music and why would youngsters want to be  associated with music from a bygone age. 

As much as we all love soul music as a modern music its days are long gone even most soul produced today is mainly retro.

Black music has moved on we and are the only ones still carrying the torch for the 60s/70s type of soul music. 

 

[Guest Spain pete]

28 minutes ago, shinehead said:

I would have thought the reason deterring youngsters from joining the scene is that it is an ancient music and why would youngsters want to be  associated with music from a bygone age. 

As much as we all love soul music as a modern music its days are long gone even most soul produced today is mainly retro.

Black music has moved on we and are the only ones still carrying the torch for the 60s/70s type of soul music. 

 

Loads of modern retro soul music out there and the young folks love it why would they not want to investigate the roots ? 

[Frankie Crocker]

1 hour ago, Steve S 60 said:

You never needed to have a record collection to be part of the scene at any time in its history.

No, of course not. But in the 70’s, many, perhaps most households owned a record player. The adults bought the records and the children played with them. Teenagers spent their pocket money on chart records and some went a lot further getting into obscure forms of music, acquiring a serious vinyl addiction as they went along. This of course rarely happens nowadays, even with a diddy vinyl upsurge we keep hearing about.

[Shinehead]

3 minutes ago, Spain pete said:

Loads of modern retro soul music out there and the young folks love it why would they not want to investigate the roots ? 

Agree there is loads of retro soul music out there but how do you know it is the young uns that are buying it I would have thought it was people like us on here who are buying the bulk of it and even then it is only selling in small quantities. 

 

[Frankie Crocker]

On 13/10/2018 at 13:09, Timillustrator said:

A lot has been written by people over time about what are the "correct" type of trousers to wear. I'm with BabyBoyAndMyLass, there's nothing in the world less important than the kind of trousers that other people wear. Who cares!??!?

Hi Tim. On the one hand, trouser width may appear to be a trite issue. On the other, the discussion relates to past values and norms - if you don’t know where you’ve come from, how do you have a clue where you might end up? Sure the scene keeps harping back to a Golden Age, but perhaps some of those things that made it rosy then are missing now. A conversation on the scene today may well include remarks saying all’s fab as you can wear what you want, but that demotes the importance of cultural identity linked to music, dancing and fashion on which the scene was based in the first place.

[Guest Spain pete]

4 minutes ago, shinehead said:

Agree there is loads of retro soul music out there but how do you know it is the young uns that are buying it I would have thought it was people like us on here who are buying the bulk of it and even then it is only selling in small quantities. 

 

Correct very little being purchased but when l was young l did not buy a lot (short of dough ) but the few things l did buy made me want to investigate what had come before and nowadays its a lot easier to research and appreciate without spending money (, Lucky buggers ) soul music will always have a audience 

[Amsterdam Russ]

7 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

It just occurred to me, is it the high prices of records that could be deterring youngsters from joining the scene or is it a range of other factors? Sure, not everyone on the scene today actually buys records but is it the impossibility of building a large collection putting off potential youngsters?

Record prices and collections have nothing to do with it. Why do you have to buy records to appreciate the music? They don't have to "buy into the scene" to appreciate great tunes, and they're not flummoxed by genre as "Northern Soulies" are.

Imagine a scene where a tune is appreciated for what it is - free of scene-based history, politics, or anything else. When the European youth of today hear a tune for the first time they decide, there and then, if they like it or not based whether it fits the mood or not and whether it's exciting or not.

Every tune played lives and dies on the dance floor based only on how good it or isn't. No value, rarity, exclusiveness, history or whatever. Is it good or isn't it? Simple as that!

[Frankie Crocker]

1 hour ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Record prices and collections have nothing to do with it. Why do you have to buy records to appreciate the music? They don't have to "buy into the scene" to appreciate great tunes, and they're not flummoxed by genre as "Northern Soulies" are.

Imagine a scene where a tune is appreciated for what it is - free of scene-based history, politics, or anything else. When the European youth of today hear a tune for the first time they decide, there and then, if they like it or not based whether it fits the mood or not and whether it's exciting or not.

Every tune played lives and dies on the dance floor based only on how good it or isn't. No value, rarity, exclusiveness, history or whatever. Is it good or isn't it? Simple as that!

Ah, but what if you like the music, and can’t get your hands on any of it in vinyl form? What does the future hold if there’s no youngsters digging for the next batch of latest discoveries?

There are tunes for the dancefloor and others for the house: what people might enjoy at home does not necessarily match what some hot-box DJ could be flogging down the local village hall...For every 50 records you play in the house, only a few might be good enough to play in public, and then, only if you are a DJ.

As I mentioned earlier, the tradition of buying vinyl has died out so youngsters are left with digital music, hardly an adequate substitute. As well as the prohibitive cost of records to potential recruits, there’s also the apparent rarity as so many good sounds are locked away in private collections. The scene lacks a youthful element with a commitment to buying vinyl so the future is open to question even though the quality of the music has stood the test of time.

[Guest Gogs]

Reading through this. i have to ask why would youngsters buy vinyl? In our day many of us just collected tapes, i will admit that some were at the records bar or appropriate shops getting their vinyl fix but not the higher percentage. Nowadays you could collect CD's or even DVD's of the music that you want to hear , or just go onto youtube and download it to your ipod. Times they are a changing.

[Timillustrator]

In my limited experience younger people don't buy vinyl, actually my young nephew (16) does but Emo/Pop punk stuff, my two other nephews (mid 20's) have a bit, all genres. Few of their friends though or my kids or their friends do. A quick straw poll of them came up with "why?", "you can stream it", it's on Spotify", "I don't have a record player/CD player", actually very few of them buy CD's they seem to be almost obsolete, my son (17) reckons more of his friends own vinyl than CD's but that's still not many of them. Virtually 100% of the music they all listen to is on smartphones.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Timillustrator

[Frankie Crocker]

On 15/10/2018 at 00:42, gogs said:

Reading through this. i have to ask why would youngsters buy vinyl? In our day many of us just collected tapes, i will admit that some were at the records bar or appropriate shops getting their vinyl fix but not the higher percentage. Nowadays you could collect CD's or even DVD's of the music that you want to hear , or just go onto youtube and download it to your ipod. Times they are a changing.

 

36 minutes ago, Timillustrator said:

In my limited experience younger people don't buy vinyl, actually my young nephew (16) does but Emo/Pop punk stuff, my two other nephews (mid 20's) have a bit, all genres. Few of their friends though or my kids or their friends do. A quick straw poll of them came up with "why?", "you can stream it", it's on Spotify", "I don't have a record player/CD player", actually very few of them buy CD's they seem to be almost obsolete, my son (17) reckons more of his friends own vinyl than CD's but that's still not many of them. Virtually 100% of the music they all listen to is on smartphones.

Exactly the point I tried to make earlier...If there is no vinyl culture or negligible record playing in the house, how on earth are youngsters going to stumble across Northern Soul? Digital streaming can only offer limited enjoyment - to dance to the music, people would have to take a giant step and visit a Soul Night. There are plenty of sounds you can only hear in a dancehall setting AND they sound better belted out on a big system - makes you wonder why more people don’t sample it as they plainly like music being glued to their phones all the time.

[Amsterdam Russ]

Enjoying music and collecting vinyl are two different things, especially in an age of digital formats and streaming. At the same time, new vinyl releases - whether reissues, unreleased material or brand new sounds - has never been as buoyant since the heyday of the format, so much so it’s ridiculously difficult trying to keep up with everything that’s being put out on so many indie labels (just like the 50s & 60s).

What’s most important is that the music continues to be appreciated, and I think it will. Some will strive for originals on hard-to-find vinyl. Others will buy reissues, and whatever digital forms come to be in the years ahead. As long as folk are appreciating the music, the format or means by which people listen is in many respects irrelevant.

 

[Geeselad]

On 15/10/2018 at 00:42, gogs said:

Reading through this. i have to ask why would youngsters buy vinyl? In our day many of us just collected tapes, i will admit that some were at the records bar or appropriate shops getting their vinyl fix but not the higher percentage. Nowadays you could collect CD's or even DVD's of the music that you want to hear , or just go onto youtube and download it to your ipod. Times they are a changing.

They certainly are, vinyl is now a respected format that's growing all the time. The 'get with it grandad' aporoach doesnt quite fityfor me, vinyl is part of a movement towards 'slow music' in much the way as slow food and the fact that books and even newspapers seem to have survived the flood of digitalism. Convenience misses the point of music, food and reading. I truely believe People will still read paper books, listen to records and even use plates in a hundred years time. Course the masses will choose the convenient, they always have, but then listening to soul has never been about the masses. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by geeselad

[Frankie Crocker]

1 hour ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Enjoying music and collecting vinyl are two different things, especially in an age of digital formats and streaming. At the same time, new vinyl releases - whether reissues, unreleased material or brand new sounds - has never been as buoyant since the heyday of the format, so much so it’s ridiculously difficult trying to keep up with everything that’s being put out on so many indie labels (just like the 50s & 60s).

What’s most important is that the music continues to be appreciated, and I think it will. Some will strive for originals on hard-to-find vinyl. Others will buy reissues, and whatever digital forms come to be in the years ahead. As long as folk are appreciating the music, the format or means by which people listen is in many respects irrelevant.

 

But on a soul scene that is vinyl driven and DJ/promoter led, OVO events may well deter the uninitiated. It’s all very well sitting in the house listening to a CD or Spotify and enjoying the music, but if you are deterred from gathering records or amassing a DJ box, the scene will wither and die. Don’t forget there are people on the scene to purely collect records - they never dance and talk records all night. The scene needs record collectors to flourish and the dwindling availability of good rare tunes surely has to impact on the next generation of potential buyers, dealers, DJ’s and promoters.

[Amsterdam Russ]

First and foremost, the scene is music-driven. Nobody has to be a vinyl junkie to enjoy the music. 

People talk about this scene dying because its punters are aged. I reckon the same thing was said about the Rock n Roll scenes, yet they still exist - and globally. Sure, there will always be collectors and crate-digging DJs, but being as obsessive as them isn’t essential for this scene to stay alive. 

And if the scene embraces the modern soul music of the future as well as it’s done so with the “modern”of the 70’s and beyond, DJs will be out hunting elusive CDs, mp3s and long-forgotten streaming service archives that’ll serve as the big warehouse finds of tomorrow!

[Shinehead]

The young want to listen to modern music and hang around with people of their own age not hang around with the older generations .

If the young are to get involved with soul music I would imagine they will create their own scene and listen to a more contempary type of soul music and not the 60s/70s type. 

 

[Guest Spain pete]

1 minute ago, shinehead said:

The young want to listen to modern music and hang around with people of their own age not hang around with the older generations .

If the young are to get involved with soul music I would imagine they will create their own scene and listen to a more contempary type of soul music and not the 60s/70s type. 

 

I was young once!  I started to listen to the latest modern black music ie Curtis / superfly Marvin/ what's going on Issac /shaft    and look what happened to me , sad anorak barstad l am 

[Soulman58]

10 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

But on a soul scene that is vinyl driven and DJ/promoter led, OVO events may well deter the uninitiated. It’s all very well sitting in the house listening to a CD or Spotify and enjoying the music, but if you are deterred from gathering records or amassing a DJ box, the scene will wither and die. Don’t forget there are people on the scene to purely collect records - they never dance and talk records all night. The scene needs record collectors to flourish and the dwindling availability of good rare tunes surely has to impact on the next generation of potential buyers, dealers, DJ’s and promoters.

There in a nutshell is the problem.  When most people on here started they were not worried about OVO etc, it was something that was cool/dangerous and to some, not all, where they could listen to sounds that not many others new.  For the majority who venture out now that is what, in their minds at least, they want to recreate.  What about today's scene makes youngsters want to get involved when they can find these things elsewhere, especially when a few clicks on a PC can deliver the same music in their front room.  They live in a world that is vastly different from the one we grew up in. 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Soulman58 said:

There in a nutshell is the problem.  When most people on here started they were not worried about OVO etc, it was something that was cool/dangerous and to some, not all, where they could listen to sounds that not many others new.  For the majority who venture out now that is what, in their minds at least, they want to recreate.  What about today's scene makes youngsters want to get involved when they can find these things elsewhere, especially when a few clicks on a PC can deliver the same music in their front room.  They live in a world that is vastly different from the one we grew up in. 

Comprehensively, succinctly, and perfectly put. This thread could be run alongside the "Death of..." and"oh Dear" threads currently running. They're all connected. But, we have to disconnect the "northern" scene from the general soul scene I think. Northern soul was a short lived youth subculture. It died out in 75, was buried in 76, and then replaced with something entirely different but the same. Sort of! And don't get me started on record collecting or the OVO thing!

When I was first on that scene in the early 70's, the average age of the punters was about 17/18. My age. When I returned in the mid nineties, the average age was late thirties. My age. When I last went to an event three years ago, the average age was, guess what? My age, sixty odd. Can you see the pattern here? Very little "new blood" has joined the "Northern" scene in the last forty odd years. How it ever got this far is nothing short of miraculous, and is down to the determination and enthusiasm of a dwindling number of die-hards. 

Attendees today, in the main, are as mentioned above. Lads and lasses in their late fifties to mid sixties, trying to recreate what they had in their youth. That's why oldies nights are probably the best attended events, and why large scale Niters are seeing attendances drop off. The last time I was at Stoke, the number of people still inside at closing time was in double figures, and none were even trying to dance. Bedtime is more important when you're that age, and the general consumption of illicit stimulants is rarely done by old people like ourselves. Maybe this is why the better attended events are those purely oldies ones, usually local and on a Friday evening, much derided as "handbag nights" by the more enlightened, upfront, cutting edge crowd.

Its now 2018, not 1973, and the youth of today have so much more to be excited about than obscure black American music from the 60's. We, on the other hand, have nothing else left, do we? Its what gave us our excitement back then, and has never left us. Never will. But, slowly but surely, the scene will dwindle more and more as we all die off. The more modern, upfront events will continue to attract younger people, albeit in numbers lower than today, but Northern? No, its dead. We just haven't realised it yet. Those of us of a certain age will recall how we used to take the piss out of the ageing Teds back in the 70's. How they still dressed in their drapes and crepes, and attended events to dance to Bo Diddley, Elvis, and Chuck Berry. Maybe thats where the Northern scene is today? What seventeen year old in his/her right mind wants to spend their leisure time surrounded by old people? Its not f***ing natural!

Ok, this has been something of a disjointed rambling rant, so apologies to all who disagree or who are offended. Its early, I had a bad sleep, and haven't eaten breakfast yet! I'd better go and listen to Moses Smith, and imagine I'm sixteen, not an ancient soulie who, like so many others, still doesn't realise his best days are behind him!

[Timillustrator]

Slightly off topic but I have been to a couple of swing dance nights locally recently. I'm just 50, at the average NS I am usually one of the youngest, at swing dance nights I am one of the oldest - most people are in their 20's or 30's, including the organisers. The music is all "oldies"; mostly (as far as I can tell) from the 1940's or 1950's but no "nostalgia" as it was all released 30 years before most people there were even born, all played off an iPad as well, no vinyl in sight. I just thought it was an interesting contrast - young people are interested in old music (way older than NS) but doing it their way. Swing dance is huge by me as well, there's something on most weekends.

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Timillustrator

[Leicester Boy]

1 hour ago, Joey said:

Comprehensively, succinctly, and perfectly put. This thread could be run alongside the "Death of..." and"oh Dear" threads currently running. They're all connected. But, we have to disconnect the "northern" scene from the general soul scene I think. Northern soul was a short lived youth subculture. It died out in 75, was buried in 76, and then replaced with something entirely different but the same. Sort of! And don't get me started on record collecting or the OVO thing!

When I was first on that scene in the early 70's, the average age of the punters was about 17/18. My age. When I returned in the mid nineties, the average age was late thirties. My age. When I last went to an event three years ago, the average age was, guess what? My age, sixty odd. Can you see the pattern here? Very little "new blood" has joined the "Northern" scene in the last forty odd years. How it ever got this far is nothing short of miraculous, and is down to the determination and enthusiasm of a dwindling number of die-hards. 

Attendees today, in the main, are as mentioned above. Lads and lasses in their late fifties to mid sixties, trying to recreate what they had in their youth. That's why oldies nights are probably the best attended events, and why large scale Niters are seeing attendances drop off. The last time I was at Stoke, the number of people still inside at closing time was in double figures, and none were even trying to dance. Bedtime is more important when you're that age, and the general consumption of illicit stimulants is rarely done by old people like ourselves. Maybe this is why the better attended events are those purely oldies ones, usually local and on a Friday evening, much derided as "handbag nights" by the more enlightened, upfront, cutting edge crowd.

Its now 2018, not 1973, and the youth of today have so much more to be excited about than obscure black American music from the 60's. We, on the other hand, have nothing else left, do we? Its what gave us our excitement back then, and has never left us. Never will. But, slowly but surely, the scene will dwindle more and more as we all die off. The more modern, upfront events will continue to attract younger people, albeit in numbers lower than today, but Northern? No, its dead. We just haven't realised it yet. Those of us of a certain age will recall how we used to take the piss out of the ageing Teds back in the 70's. How they still dressed in their drapes and crepes, and attended events to dance to Bo Diddley, Elvis, and Chuck Berry. Maybe thats where the Northern scene is today? What seventeen year old in his/her right mind wants to spend their leisure time surrounded by old people? Its not f***ing natural!

Ok, this has been something of a disjointed rambling rant, so apologies to all who disagree or who are offended. Its early, I had a bad sleep, and haven't eaten breakfast yet! I'd better go and listen to Moses Smith, and imagine I'm sixteen, not an ancient soulie who, like so many others, still doesn't realise his best days are behind him!

Girl across the street and cornflakes a perfect mix joey.

[Colnago]

Northern scene died in 76! , might have done for you in your eyes, just because you left it didn’t ‘die’ .

[Mark S]

After TOTPs and the tourists the genie was out of the bottle never the same after . 

[Colnago]

Still , it didn’t die ! 

[Len]

17 minutes ago, Mark S said:

After TOTPs and the tourists the genie was out of the bottle never the same after . 

Don't shoot me - But didn't that exposure attract some good people to the scene? 

Len 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Colnago said:

Still , it didn’t die ! 

But it DID. I've attempted to try to explain the reasons for this so many times, to so many people recently. I will try again!

If you read my post properly, you will see that I said the Northern scene not only died in 76, but was immediately and seamlessly replaced by something completely different, but at the same time very similar. Its incredibly difficult to put this into text, as I, much like many others on this site, suffer from "Northern Bloke Syndrome", and as such have extreme difficulties explaining feelings and emotions. And its the "feelings" that matter here. 

As I've said before, and without trying to belittle ANYONES time and enjoyment on the scene, if you were there, you'll know EXACTLY what I mean, if you weren't, you won't ever understand. Impossible to really. If you came onto "the scene" in 76, 86, or even 96, you will have had exactly the same enjoyment that I and many others had decades before. That's not the issue, nor is it arguable in any way. So please, don't think I'm in some way having a dig.

The "Northern" scene is now a misnomer, and has been for forty something years. It really should be termed as the "Rare Soul" scene, as that is what it became. I just cannot put into words many of the reasons for this. Again, I cant explain this to someone who possibly didn't experience the sheer scale of the turbulence in what was essentially a brief eighteen month period. And believe me, I really don't want to revisit the old Levine vs Casino subject, nor do I wish to get embroiled in the reasons for the Casino going down a certain path in able to make money for a small group of people. Mark S hit the nail on the head with his comment re TOTP etc.  And Len? Yes, that dreadful episode certainly did see a few good people access the scene, but it also led to 99% of new attendees being out and out pissed up cretins, passed out at 3am all over the bloody place. Suffice it to say, that these reasons, plus one or two social norms of the day, all contributed to "Northern" soul ceasing to exist. And cease to exist it should have done. It was a YOUTH culture, the same as the Mods, Rockers, Teds, etc. These things have a short lifespan. Those of us who returned to the scene, or those who discovered it in later years, see it through VERY different eyes to the eyes of those who were there back in the day. And rightly so. We aren't kids anymore, thank God.

But, even if a person disagrees 100% with my assessment, just look at the demographics. Attendees, on average, have been getting older and older ever since 76. Was the average age at Stafford seventeen? Like f*** it was. St. Ives? Yate? As each year has passed since 76, the average age has increased, and now we're where we are, with most soulies being well old! The "Scene" is on life support, and has been for many a year. This doesn't diminish anyones enjoyment, nor their views or memories. It is what it is. 

OK, Rant Pt.2 over. I'm pretty useless at trying to explain this subject. Just enjoy what you have, for as long as you have it. Pretty soon memories will be all that we have left.

[Mark S]

2 hours ago, LEN said:

Don't shoot me - But didn't that exposure attract some good people to the scene? 

Len 

It probably did Len and in the following few years the music expanded just look at the wonderfull diversity that Stafford brought about .                                                But I take Joeys points , maybe its the exuburence of youth but in the early seventies  from that initial rush of exitement of being a part of something very special 1975 it hit the buffers its hard to explain but it changed  .                  As I have said in a previous post it still has the ability to suprise me and allthough I dont get out much still enjoy it.              

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

7 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

First and foremost, the scene is music-driven. Nobody has to be a vinyl junkie to enjoy the music. 

People talk about this scene dying because its punters are aged. I reckon the same thing was said about the Rock n Roll scenes, yet they still exist - and globally. Sure, there will always be collectors and crate-digging DJs, but being as obsessive as them isn’t essential for this scene to stay alive. 

And if the scene embraces the modern soul music of the future as well as it’s done so with the “modern”of the 70’s and beyond, DJs will be out hunting elusive CDs, mp3s and long-forgotten streaming service archives that’ll serve as the big warehouse finds of tomorrow!

A bit of background on me, I play in one of Cornwall's most popular cabaret bands, R'n'R, Beat ballads, 50s and 60s golden oldies.

There is a huge and fundamental difference between the Soul scene and the Rock 'n' Roll scene. The R'n'R scene is very keen and very positive towards retro style live bands playing versions of the loved oldies as well as their own compositions based around the canon.

Something that the Soul scene not only doesn't totally embrace but is positively hostile to the point of being vitriolic about.

While the Soul scene will mostly only accept an original 45, not even a reissue, the R'n'R scene doesn't care less about this and prefer a live band playing the oldies onstage. A DJ is 'alright' to them as long as they play the right stuff, the format they couldn't give a flyer about, bands are preferred though.

A huge difference in attitude.

I'm not a huge R'nR fanatic, music is my job first and foremost. 

 

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Mark S said:

It probably did Len and in the following few years the music expanded just look at the wonderfull diversity that Stafford brought about .                                                But I take Joeys points , maybe its the exuburence of youth but in the early seventies  from that initial rush of exitement of being a part of something very special 1975 it hit the buffers its hard to explain but it changed  .                  As I have said in a previous post it still has the ability to suprise me and allthough I dont get out much still enjoy it.              

That's exactly the word..."special". That's the feeling we all had, being on an UNDERGROUND scene. Part of a small and exclusive family. We felt like gods. Special, immortal gods. Prior to the Casino opening, the number of people on the scene was TINY. Just a few hundred, scattered up and down the country. I spoke recently to a couple of people who I knew back then, but who were not a part of the scene. They said that all the guys wanted to be us, and all the girls wanted to sh&g us. (Wish I'd have known THAT ). We were different. We mostly looked different. We also FELT different, in what was a drab, grey world. Its impossible to put all this into words. But, once the greed and stupidity took over, and the scene was dragged out into the fulll glare of mainstream teenage pop/club culture, it was never the same again. It couldn't be. Again, and at the risk of repeating myself for the umpteenth time, you just had to be there to understand what happened, why it happened, and what it led to. And how it felt to have it ripped away from you. 

Today? A scene filled with old people. Or at least middle aged. Too few youngesters, and even they are mostly in their thirties or forties. Too many venues, too many wannabe DJs with boxes of four figure rare but shite records. If, as some maintain, the "Northern Soul" scene didn't die in 76, (IT DID!!!!) its very much on its last legs now. No, the music will never die, but we will, and once the last of us has hung up his/her dancing shoes, what will be left? Nothing more than a very small footnote in social history? 

As for a more general "Rare Soul" scene, well, that's a completely different kettle of fish, thankfully. It will survive, (and thrive) playing a wide ranging mix of soul genres, past and present, and hopefully welcoming a younger and more diverse mix of enthusiasts. Maybe there'll even be a place in it for some "Northern" tunes!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

A bit of background on me, I play in one of Cornwall's most popular cabaret bands, R'n'R, Beat ballads, 50s and 60s golden oldies.

There is a huge and fundamental difference between the Soul scene and the Rock 'n' Roll scene. The R'n'R scene is very keen and very positive towards retro style live bands playing versions of the loved oldies as well as their own compositions based around the canon.

Something that the Soul scene not only doesn't totally embrace but is positively hostile to the point of being vitriolic about.

While the Soul scene will mostly only accept an original 45, not even a reissue, the R'n'R scene doesn't care less about this and prefer a live band playing the oldies onstage. A DJ is 'alright' to them as long as they play the right stuff, the format they couldn't give a flyer about, bands are preferred though.

A huge difference in attitude.

I'm not a huge R'nR fanatic, music is my job first and foremost. 

 

 

Kinda bears out what I've always said, in that it's the SOUND that's important, not the bloody label/format!!!! You can't touch, taste, or look at Levi Stubbs voice, but you can both hear and FEEL it.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Guest

[Chalky]

25 minutes ago, Joey said:

Kinda bears out what I've always said, in that it's the SOUND that's important, not the bloody label/format!!!! You can't touch, feel, or look at Levi Stubbs voice, but you can both hear and FEEL it.

But the format does matter and to say it diesn’t is a bit silly, even baby boy is saying that about the soul scene. For a lot of venues it is actually stressed in promotion that it is original vinyl only. 

Edited October 17, 2018 by chalky

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, chalky said:

But the format does matter and to say it diesn’t is a bit silly, even baby boy is saying that about the soul scene. For a lot of venues it is actually stressed in promotion that it is original vinyl only. 

Heaven knows how many times this has been discussed, heatedly at times. I wont go there again, but will just say one thing. BabyBoy does indeed mention about the format being important to the soul scene. However, reading his post several times, I am not convinced that he sees this as a positive. More as a negative when compared to what is acceptable on the RnR scene.

If the format is so important, then the SOUND is even MORE important. Without the sound, we have NOTHING!!!!! I am assuming that you were there "back in the day", and so I would also assume that back then, you probably didn't give a toss what the label was, as long as you got to hear and dance to the tune that blew your mind? Given that the "scene" itself is now well over fifty years of age, the whole OVO thing is a relatively new phenomenon on the rare soul scene. What are not new phenomena are label snobs, oneupmanship, bragging rights etc. etc. Been with us since the days of the Wheel, and will remain with us until the lights are turned out. 

As I've said so many times, why not just enjoy what we have, for as long as we have it. After all, according to Joni Mitchell, you don't know what you have 'til its gone.

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Just as a side addition to my comment above the Soul music is very much about the voices, moreso than R'nR.

Granted it is difficult for the average singer to get close to even a small name in terms of soul music sales, so for a lot a live singer won't be accepted as up to the mark, whereas the music itself is reasonably easy to replicate well, you would need a very strong vocalist and multiple strong harmonies to cut it with the soul crowd, vocal-wise.

Hope that makes a modicum of sense! 

[Colnago]

I don’t need a lecture off anyone to tell me it died in 76 , that’s just your opinion and that’s that , it might have changed when totps etc came along , but no it didn’t die , imo and others , one minute people are saying ‘longest living youth subculture next some say it died in 76 , yes the divs turned up and fucked off and mr searlling and others turned the ship around and guess what, they started playing more soulful music again. What I will say though is that it’s no coincidence the demise of the British pub on a weekend and the return of people who used to get pissed up on a Saturday etc that now go to northern soul events, I know some that shunned some events on their doorstep, said they’d never bother with the scene again and they’d ‘ moved on ‘ , they’re now djing albeit local( ish ) events,after 20-25 year sabbatical, suppose that could come under the ‘state of ‘ thread . But going back to it dying in 76 I’m just not with you on that , changed yes , but if you’d stuck around you might see it from my perspective, and yes I could go blue in my face arguing my point, but I won’t . 

 

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Colnago said:

I don’t need a lecture off anyone to tell me it died in 76 , that’s just your opinion and that’s that , it might have changed when totps etc came along , but no it didn’t die , imo and others , one minute people are saying ‘longest living youth subculture next some say it died in 76 , yes the divs turned up and fucked off and mr searlling and others turned the ship around and guess what, they started playing more soulful music again. What I will say though is that it’s no coincidence the demise of the British pub on a weekend and the return of people who used to get pissed up on a Saturday etc that now go to northern soul events, I know some that shunned some events on their doorstep, said they’d never bother with the scene again and they’d ‘ moved on ‘ , they’re now djing albeit local( ish ) events,after 20-25 year sabbatical, suppose that could come under the ‘state of ‘ thread . But going back to it dying in 76 I’m just not with you on that , changed yes , but if you’d stuck around you might see it from my perspective, and yes I could go blue in my face arguing my point, but I won’t . 

 

A few points in conclusion, as I'm not going to allow myself to be once again dragged into an argument almost as old as the scene itself.

One, it wasn't a lecture, just an opinion I, and most of the others on the scene at the time, have held for almost half a century. Time hasn't softened the feelings I had back then, nor do I suspect it ever will. 

Two, the point I am making regarding the events of 75/76 is an extremely subtle one. The difference between pre and post TOTP was both subtle and nuanced, and most people at that time would struggle to say much more than that it "felt" completely different after we were ignored, and the media etc. brought in.

Three. Mr. Searling. Did he and others, benefit from what happened? Some may say yes, some may say no. He was responsible, along with RW, for the playing of some truly abject garbage in 1974, and also I believe partly responsible for the whole BBC / Daily Mirror thing. True, he has also been responsible for most of the wonderful stuff discovered since. So, credit where due, but please, do we really need to keep placing DJs on pedestals? If we do, then perhaps Pep, a young Ian Levine, Martyn Ellis, Keith Minshull and others are all ahead in the queue.

Four, you are most definitely entitled to your own opinion of what happened back then. If you were there, as perhaps your post indicates, then you were almost certainly in a minority then, but probably in the majority now. We will just have to agree to disagree. 

Five, we'll all be bloody dead soon, so in the great scheme of things, does it actually matter?  

Six, I'm still right!    

Edited October 17, 2018 by Guest

[Colnago]

35 minutes ago, Joey said:

A few points in conclusion, as I'm not going to allow myself to be once again dragged into an argument almost as old as the scene itself.

One, it wasn't a lecture, just an opinion I, and most of the others on the scene at the time, have held for almost half a century. Time hasn't softened the feelings I had back then, nor do I suspect it ever will. 

Two, the point I am making regarding the events of 75/76 is an extremely subtle one. The difference between pre and post TOTP was both subtle and nuanced, and most people at that time would struggle to say much more than that it "felt" completely different after we were ignored, and the media etc. brought in.

Three. Mr. Searling. Did he and others, benefit from what happened? Some may say yes, some may say no. He was responsible, along with RW, for the playing of some truly abject garbage in 1974, and also I believe partly responsible for the whole BBC / Daily Mirror thing. True, he has also been responsible for most of the wonderful stuff discovered since. So, credit where due, but please, do we really need to keep placing DJs on pedestals? If we do, then perhaps Pep, a young Ian Levine, Martyn Ellis, Keith Minshull and others are all ahead in the queue.

Four, you are most definitely entitled to your own opinion of what happened back then. If you were there, as perhaps your post indicates, then you were almost certainly in a minority then, but probably in the majority now. We will just have to agree to disagree. 

Five, we'll all be bloody dead soon, so in the great scheme of things, does it actually matter?  

Six, I'm still right!    

Ok joey , we’ll agree to disagree, even though I’m right lol , the big picture is it doesn’t really matter does it , by the way I just used searling as an example as you say he did turn it around , I though have never put any of them on a pedestal. That’s another subject. 

[Amsterdam Russ]

A brief history of the soul scene…

Chapter One:

The last roars of the mighty dinosaurs echoed across the planet as they fought bitterly against their impending and inevitable extinction. What the dinosaurs couldn’t appreciate is that while it might have been the end of the world for them, their demise would usher in a new epoch.

New species would thrive in their place, taking advantage of world in which the old thunder lizards would eventually become nothing but fossilised memories. In the new world, creatures didn't have to behave according to the rules set by the once all-powerful dinosaurs. Instead of being large and clumsy, the new breeds were smaller, more agile, and much more adaptable to the environments in which they found themselves.

None of the new species harked back to the old days when dinosaurs terrorised the world. Instead, the new world thrived.

Chapter Two:

In time, the human species evolved, and one day - not long after mastering fire (which they did so that they could hold cave-nighters) - came up with a thing that would be known to archeologists as a “record player”. 

Scientists, trying to make sense of the customs and culture of this particular branch of Homo Sapiens, came to believe that these "record players" were only used for special ceremonial occasions. At these events, held mainly during the darkest hours of night (remember they had mastered fire by now), clans would invite members of other clans to their caves so that they could mingle together and share common experiences that would, it was hoped, unite them.

It was common practice to invite the most powerful Shamen from the clans to perform special rituals. At these tribal gatherings, people would dance themselves into mystical trances brought on by ancient spiritual chants made by ancient voices from a place known only as “Long-Ago”, and which were conjured forth by the medicine-folk through the magic medium of the record player.

The medicine-folk were esteemed as hunter-gatherers. They gained high status among the tribes through what was known as digging. This wasn’t digging for crops or other foodstuffs, but the unearthing of obscure, mystical chants from distant places, which the clans revered and which were central to their worship of the god OVO. OVO was almighty, and the DJs (name abbreviated from “digging jockeys” after their constant travels in search of obscure chants) came a pretty close second. 

The ancient culture was bound by a strict set of rules. Although no-one is certain of the origins of these rules, it’s believed they may have been handed down on a carved platter to the Wise Ones (they who must be obeyed, and who were responsible for setting all rules for the community, even if some folk felt the rules were a tad silly). The Wise Ones were also known in some circles as the Soul Police. It was their duty to ensure the rules were upheld by whatever means necessary. A favourite punishment was vilification through social media.

Although these rules were unwritten, and the community as a whole could never fully agree on them, archeologists believe the basic tenets were as follows:

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before OVO.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any false likenesses of OVO.
3. Thou shalt use of the Sabbath to rest after worshipping OVO.
4. Honour thy DJ if they be true to OVO (otherwise blood sacrifice is acceptable).
5. Thou shall not kill in the name of OVO (but see exception above).
6. Thou must not commit adultery in the name of OVO.
7. Thou must not steal another person’s OVO.
8. Thou must not give false witness about the OVO in your box. 
9. Thou must not covet thy neighbour’s OVO.
10. Thou must not wear comedy trousers for laughter is not permitted in the house of OVO.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Amsterdam Russ

[Amsterdam Russ]

Chapter Three:

For a while the tribes were united. But as time moved on the tribes found that some members, the elders of the community in particular, couldn’t keep up with the pace of progress taking place within their small and often inward-looking society. The elders increasingly reminisced about the days of their youth. For some of them it felt as if their culture was being diluted. One reason repeatedly cited by certain elders is that the Shamen DJs in these new times just weren’t butch enough.

Yet still the younger folk worshipped. Indeed, many more joined their numbers - not just locally, but eventually from all over the world. While OVO remained in their hearts, their god appeared less frequently than in the years gone by. With OVO being so elusive, the younger folk found themselves worshipping instead the voices from “Long-Ago” that were responsible for their mystical trances.

Debates ensued that threatened to tear the community of tribes apart. Whom should they worship - OVO or the voices? It’s true, they argued, that without OVO they would not have heard the mighty voices, but at the same time, they could worship the voices without the presence of OVO. It was a godly dilemma, one to which no answer could be given that would appease the opposing factions.

The tribes fought over their gods. Deadly wars inflicted huge casualties on the battlegrounds of social media and beyond. The elders continued to shake their heads and dream about the old days. But there was no going back: their numbers had populated the Earth and they were many.

Chapter Four:

In the year 2525, the people are gripped by waves of nostalgia. Moon-base Alpha holds a festival in celebration of the historic cultures of the dying planet Earth. One small corner, called the Wigan Mecca Torch Wheel, is devoted to the ancient cult of OVO. Although archeologists are still not able to understand who or what OVO really was, or the roll baggy trousers sometimes played in worshipping it, over the centuries, and thanks to the multitude of advanced recording methods used for archiving and preservation, they had been able to amass a huge database of ancient spiritual chants sung by the now long-forgotten people who lived in “Long-Ago”. 

The songs sung by those voices, so filled with devotion to OVO (so says the exhibition catalogue), touches the hearts of those who come to visit the little Wigan Mecca Torch Wheel exhibition. OVO must have been a great god to be so filled with such spirit, the curators say. Some wonder to themselves whether there was in fact any connection to any god at all, by whatever name, but whether the rapturous embracing of these distant, time-capsuled echoes is entirely down of the depth of the emotions exuded so richly by the wonderful voices on the fantastically preserved and restored recordings. 

Who or what the god OVO was is unlikely to be understood, but thanks to technology the most emotionally soulful sounds ever to come from mankind have been preserved for future generations across the centuries to come.

T-shirts and baggy trousers available to buy in the shop on your way out.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

A brief history of the soul scene…

Chapter One:

The last roars of the mighty dinosaurs echoed across the planet as they fought bitterly against their impending and inevitable extinction. What the dinosaurs couldn’t appreciate is that while it might have been the end of the world for them, their demise would usher in a new epoch.

New species would thrive in their place, taking advantage of world in which the old thunder lizards would eventually become nothing but fossilised memories. In the new world, creatures didn't have to behave according to the rules set by the once all-powerful dinosaurs. Instead of being large and clumsy, the new breeds were smaller, more agile, and much more adaptable to the environments in which they found themselves.

None of the new species harked back to the old days when dinosaurs terrorised the world. Instead, the new world thrived.

Chapter Two:

In time, the human species evolved, and one day - not long after mastering fire (which they did so that they could hold cave-nighters) - came up with a thing that would be known to archeologists as a “record player”. 

Scientists, trying to make sense of the customs and culture of this particular branch of Homo Sapiens, came to believe that these "record players" were only used for special ceremonial occasions. At these events, held mainly during the darkest hours of night (remember they had mastered fire by now), clans would invite members of other clans to their caves so that they could mingle together and share common experiences that would, it was hoped, unite them.

It was common practice to invite the most powerful Shamen from the clans to perform special rituals. At these tribal gatherings, people would dance themselves into mystical trances brought on by ancient spiritual chants made by ancient voices from a place known only as “Long-Ago”, and which were conjured forth by the medicine-folk through the magic medium of the record player.

The medicine-folk were esteemed as hunter-gatherers. They gained high status among the tribes through what was known as digging. This wasn’t digging for crops or other foodstuffs, but the unearthing of obscure, mystical chants from distant places, which the clans revered and which were central to their worship of the god OVO. OVO was almighty, and the DJs (name abbreviated from “digging jockeys” after their constant travels in search of obscure chants) came a pretty close second. 

The ancient culture was bound by a strict set of rules. Although no-one is certain of the origins of these rules, it’s believed they may have been handed down on a carved platter to the Wise Ones (they who must be obeyed, and who were responsible for setting all rules for the community, even if some folk felt the rules were a tad silly). The Wise Ones were also known in some circles as the Soul Police. It was their duty to ensure the rules were upheld by whatever means necessary. A favourite punishment was vilification through social media.

Although these rules were unwritten, and the community as a whole could never fully agree on them, archeologists believe the basic tenets were as follows:

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before OVO.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any false likenesses of OVO.
3. Thou shalt use of the Sabbath to rest after worshipping OVO.
4. Honour thy DJ if they be true to OVO (otherwise blood sacrifice is acceptable).
5. Thou shall not kill in the name of OVO (but see exception above).
6. Thou must not commit adultery in the name of OVO.
7. Thou must not steal another person’s OVO.
8. Thou must not give false witness about the OVO in your box. 
9. Thou must not covet thy neighbour’s OVO.
10. Thou must not wear comedy trousers for laughter is not permitted in the house of OVO.

Lol.

9 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Chapter Three:

For a while the tribes were united. But as time moved on the tribes found that some members, the elders of the community in particular, couldn’t keep up with the pace of progress taking place within their small and often inward-looking society. The elders increasingly reminisced about the days of their youth. For some of them it felt as if their culture was being diluted. One reason repeatedly cited by certain elders is that the Shamen DJs in these new times just weren’t butch enough.

Yet still the younger folk worshipped. Indeed, many more joined their numbers - not just locally, but eventually from all over the world. While OVO remained in their hearts, their god appeared less frequently than in the years gone by. With OVO being so elusive, the younger folk found themselves worshipping instead the voices from “Long-Ago” that were responsible for their mystical trances.

Debates ensued that threatened to tear the community of tribes apart. Whom should they worship - OVO or the voices? It’s true, they argued, that without OVO they would not have heard the mighty voices, but at the same time, they could worship the voices without the presence of OVO. It was a godly dilemma, one to which no answer could be given that would appease the opposing factions.

The tribes fought over their gods. Deadly wars inflicted huge casualties on the battlegrounds of social media and beyond. The elders continued to shake their heads and dream about the old days. But there was no going back: their numbers had populated the Earth and they were many.

Chapter Four:

In the year 2525, the people are gripped by waves of nostalgia. Moon-base Alpha holds a festival in celebration of the historic cultures of the dying planet Earth. One small corner, called the Wigan Mecca Torch Wheel, is devoted to the ancient cult of OVO. Although archeologists are still not able to understand who or what OVO really was, or the roll baggy trousers sometimes played in worshipping it, over the centuries, and thanks to the multitude of advanced recording methods used for archiving and preservation, they had been able to amass a huge database of ancient spiritual chants sung by the now long-forgotten people who lived in “Long-Ago”. 

The songs sung by those voices, so filled with devotion to OVO (so says the exhibition catalogue), touches the hearts of those who come to visit the little Wigan Mecca Torch Wheel exhibition. OVO must have been a great god to be so filled with such spirit, the curators say. Some wonder to themselves whether there was in fact any connection to any god at all, by whatever name, but whether the rapturous embracing of these distant, time-capsuled echoes is entirely down of the depth of the emotions exuded so richly by the wonderful voices on the fantastically preserved and restored recordings. 

Who or what the god OVO was is unlikely to be understood, but thanks to technology the most emotionally soulful sounds ever to come from mankind have been preserved for future generations across the centuries to come.

T-shirts and baggy trousers available to buy in the shop on your way out.

Double LOL.

[Steve S 60]

29 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before OVO.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any false likenesses of OVO.
3. Thou shalt use of the Sabbath to rest after worshipping OVO.
4. Honour thy DJ if they be true to OVO (otherwise blood sacrifice is acceptable).
5. Thou shall not kill in the name of OVO (but see exception above).
6. Thou must not commit adultery in the name of OVO.
7. Thou must not steal another person’s OVO.
8. Thou must not give false witness about the OVO in your box. 
9. Thou must not covet thy neighbour’s OVO.
10. Thou must not wear comedy trousers for laughter is not permitted in the house of OVO.

Keep taking the tablets.

[Simonbolton]

Comprehensively, succinctly, and perfectly put. This thread could be run alongside the "Death of..." and"oh Dear" threads currently running. They're all connected. But, we have to disconnect the "northern" scene from the general soul scene I think. Northern soul was a short lived youth subculture. It died out in 75, was buried in 76, and then replaced with something entirely different but the same. Sort of! And don't get me started on record collecting or the OVO thing!

When I was first on that scene in the early 70's, the average age of the punters was about 17/18. My age. When I returned in the mid nineties, the average age was late thirties. My age. When I last went to an event three years ago, the average age was, guess what? My age, sixty odd. Can you see the pattern here? Very little "new blood" has joined the "Northern" scene in the last forty odd years. How it ever got this far is nothing short of miraculous, and is down to the determination and enthusiasm of a dwindling number of die-hards. 

Attendees today, in the main, are as mentioned above. Lads and lasses in their late fifties to mid sixties, trying to recreate what they had in their youth. That's why oldies nights are probably the best attended events, and why large scale Niters are seeing attendances drop off. The last time I was at Stoke, the number of people still inside at closing time was in double figures, and none were even trying to dance. Bedtime is more important when you're that age, and the general consumption of illicit stimulants is rarely done by old people like ourselves. Maybe this is why the better attended events are those purely oldies ones, usually local and on a Friday evening, much derided as "handbag nights" by the more enlightened, upfront, cutting edge crowd.

Its now 2018, not 1973, and the youth of today have so much more to be excited about than obscure black American music from the 60's. We, on the other hand, have nothing else left, do we? Its what gave us our excitement back then, and has never left us. Never will. But, slowly but surely, the scene will dwindle more and more as we all die off. The more modern, upfront events will continue to attract younger people, albeit in numbers lower than today, but Northern? No, its dead. We just haven't realised it yet. Those of us of a certain age will recall how we used to take the piss out of the ageing Teds back in the 70's. How they still dressed in their drapes and crepes, and attended events to dance to Bo Diddley, Elvis, and Chuck Berry. Maybe thats where the Northern scene is today? What seventeen year old in his/her right mind wants to spend their leisure time surrounded by old people? Its not f***ing natural!

Ok, this has been something of a disjointed rambling rant, so apologies to all who disagree or who are offended. Its early, I had a bad sleep, and haven't eaten breakfast yet! I'd better go and listen to Moses Smith, and imagine I'm sixteen, not an ancient soulie who, like so many others, still doesn't realise his best days are behind him!

 

Absolutely spot on methinks........

[Guest Spain pete]

War and peace by Leo was great , Edwin's album was superb , you lot take it to a new level  well done

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Spain pete said:

War and peace by Leo was great , Edwin's album was superb , you lot take it to a new level  well done

I've read just about the so-called classics, but W&P was the only one to defeat me. Just couldn't get to grips with it, and ended up thinking that old Tolstoy was a twat. If you've read it from cover to cover without slashing your wrists, all I can do is to offer lashings of kudos. (Much prefer Edwin's audio version ). 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, simonbolton said:

Comprehensively, succinctly, and perfectly put. This thread could be run alongside the "Death of..." and"oh Dear" threads currently running. They're all connected. But, we have to disconnect the "northern" scene from the general soul scene I think. Northern soul was a short lived youth subculture. It died out in 75, was buried in 76, and then replaced with something entirely different but the same. Sort of! And don't get me started on record collecting or the OVO thing!

When I was first on that scene in the early 70's, the average age of the punters was about 17/18. My age. When I returned in the mid nineties, the average age was late thirties. My age. When I last went to an event three years ago, the average age was, guess what? My age, sixty odd. Can you see the pattern here? Very little "new blood" has joined the "Northern" scene in the last forty odd years. How it ever got this far is nothing short of miraculous, and is down to the determination and enthusiasm of a dwindling number of die-hards. 

Attendees today, in the main, are as mentioned above. Lads and lasses in their late fifties to mid sixties, trying to recreate what they had in their youth. That's why oldies nights are probably the best attended events, and why large scale Niters are seeing attendances drop off. The last time I was at Stoke, the number of people still inside at closing time was in double figures, and none were even trying to dance. Bedtime is more important when you're that age, and the general consumption of illicit stimulants is rarely done by old people like ourselves. Maybe this is why the better attended events are those purely oldies ones, usually local and on a Friday evening, much derided as "handbag nights" by the more enlightened, upfront, cutting edge crowd.

Its now 2018, not 1973, and the youth of today have so much more to be excited about than obscure black American music from the 60's. We, on the other hand, have nothing else left, do we? Its what gave us our excitement back then, and has never left us. Never will. But, slowly but surely, the scene will dwindle more and more as we all die off. The more modern, upfront events will continue to attract younger people, albeit in numbers lower than today, but Northern? No, its dead. We just haven't realised it yet. Those of us of a certain age will recall how we used to take the piss out of the ageing Teds back in the 70's. How they still dressed in their drapes and crepes, and attended events to dance to Bo Diddley, Elvis, and Chuck Berry. Maybe thats where the Northern scene is today? What seventeen year old in his/her right mind wants to spend their leisure time surrounded by old people? Its not f***ing natural!

Ok, this has been something of a disjointed rambling rant, so apologies to all who disagree or who are offended. Its early, I had a bad sleep, and haven't eaten breakfast yet! I'd better go and listen to Moses Smith, and imagine I'm sixteen, not an ancient soulie who, like so many others, still doesn't realise his best days are behind him!

 

Absolutely spot on methinks........

Why thank you muchly, kind young Sir! 

[Tomangoes]

The Northern Soul scene was dead an buried by 75/76?

Probably if you were over 20 and married with a mortgage and chose to abandon ship.

However I think another 5 years existed whereby it was alive and kicking, albeit under attack from the mohair jumper and drainpipe brigade.

And even then it simply went underground as more patrons got married and had a mortgage.

The debate goes on and on..

Ed

[Chalky]

Northern Soul has never died, it has just evolved.  It might not be now how we remember it from our youth but but what is. 

The scene wasn’t the same in 1969 as it was in 1966, it wasn’t the same in 73 as it was in 71 and so on, it grew, it evolved, tastes changed just like fashion, might not be for the better but it didn’t die. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by chalky

[Colnago]

19 minutes ago, chalky said:

Northern Soul has never died, it has just evolved.  It might not be now how we remember it from our youth but but what is. 

The scene wasn’t the same in 1969 as it was in 1966, it wasn’t the same in 73 as it was in 71 and so on, it grew, it evolved, tastes changed just like fashion, might not be for the better but it didn’t die. 

Amen , my thoughts exactly chalky .