Stardust label rare Northern tunes,what happened to them?

[Suinoz]

This may cause some bone of contention with the purists, but I remember the Stardust label producing some really top tunes on the various different colored labels they issued. I had many and played them at "local gigs" where ovo didn't matter, purely to save the life of my originals. You only had to look through their catalogue to see some awesome "biggies". Three of the best for me were Timi Yuro It'll never be over for me, Ray Pollard, the drifter and the Tempests, someday. The sound quality was as good as it gets for what we may term a bootleg, and the vinyl was top notch. I wonder what pressing plant they used. Whatever happened to the label as it's quite rare to see any of them for sale these day's? Have they gone on to become as collectible as the Grapevine series? Be really interesting to know a bit more about them if anyone has any ideas. Apologies if this has been covered on here before.

[Daz Mc]

I remember selling my Tempests on eBay. It went for £159...I couldnt believe it...caused quite a stir on a SS thread at the time...madness what some folk will pay.

Edited September 18, 2018 by daz mc

[Amsterdam Russ]

Must have been about this time last year, I was having a chat at a soul night in Amsterdam with someone from the UK . They were telling me that the Tempests on Stardust is considered in some circles to be a legitimate release, and thus is a means of having "Someday" on a 45 instead of having to lug the LP about!

[Amsterdam Russ]

Short discussion from 2013 here...

 

 

[Amsterdam Russ]

Longer discussion here, primarily around The Tempests' 45...

 

 

Having had a quick check, I see Stardust Records is still in business...

 

https://www.stardustrecords.ca

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Longer discussion here, primarily around The Tempests' 45...

 

 

Having had a quick check, I see Stardust Records is still in business...

 

https://www.stardustrecords.ca

 That’s just a record shop in the US and not the label in question

[Amsterdam Russ]

30 minutes ago, chalky said:

 That’s just a record shop in the US and not the label in question

My understanding is that it's the record shop that gave birth to the label.

[Chalky]

3 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

My understanding is that it's the record shop that gave birth to the label.

First I’ve heard.  Who owns the shop?

[Amsterdam Russ]

4 minutes ago, chalky said:

First I’ve heard.  Who owns the shop?

The owner is Sharron Smith. She worked with Martin Koppel at Kops record shop.

[Chalky]

46 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

The owner is Sharron Smith. She worked with Martin Koppel at Kops record shop.

The shop was probably the inspiration for the name rather than the shop being responsible for the label.  The label was iwned by AngloAmerican, Martin and Tim.  

Edited September 18, 2018 by chalky

[Amsterdam Russ]

3 minutes ago, chalky said:

The shopmwas probably the inspiration for the name rather than the shop being responsible for the label.  The label was iwned by AngloAmerican, Martin and Tim.  

Could be. Looking more closely, I see Stardust's own website states the shop opened in 1983, so no direct connection between them and the label. Interesting to note that the shop's logo is rather similar to the one used frequently on the label design. Given that and the Koppel connection, I wonder if Sharron Smith, the shop owner, was involved in the label in any way. 

[cementman]

I have and play Brenda Holloway - Reconsider on Stardust.  As far as I'm aware it's  the only vinyl 45 available.  Always goes down well. Green label,  although others I've  seen are pink. Is the pink a boot of a boot,  boot of an original,  original with a green boot,  or...........? 

[El Corol]

There was a discussion about this on a 45cat forum:

 

https://www.45cat.com/45_forum_topic_view.php?t=2611

[Windlesoul]

8 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Must have been about this time last year, I was having a chat at a soul night in Amsterdam with someone from the UK . They were telling me that the Tempests on Stardust is considered in some circles to be a legitimate release, and thus is a means of having "Someday" on a 45 instead of having to lug the LP about!

On what presumed basis Russ? Smash closed it’s doors in 1970, so licencing would have had to be via Universal (who took on Polygram / Mercury, Smash bring a Mercury subsidiary ).

Edited September 18, 2018 by Windlesoul

[Amsterdam Russ]

58 minutes ago, Windlesoul said:

On what presumed basis Russ? Smash closed it’s doors in 1970, so licencing would have had to be via Universal (who took on Polygram / Mercury, Smash bring a Mercury subsidiary ).

Simply on the presumed basis that the track was licensed by Stardust. Whether it was or wasn’t, I don’t know. Reading the various threads that have been linked to here, it seems there’s a general uncertainty in some people’s minds whether all, some or none of Stardust’s output was legitimately released or not. Someone must know...

[Colnago]

11 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Must have been about this time last year, I was having a chat at a soul night in Amsterdam with someone from the UK . They were telling me that the Tempests on Stardust is considered in some circles to be a legitimate release, and thus is a means of having "Someday" on a 45 instead of having to lug the LP about!

Think straws and clutching come to mind here .

[Benji]

If you think Stardust was legit you also believe Santa is real.

[SoulBoy BWFC]

i have a tempest someday on stardust, if it is a boot then someone made a boot of a boot

[SoulBoy BWFC]

This is the re issue apparently. Anyway i read somewhere on here years ago the stardust records were made by disabled people somewhere in canada i could be wrong though  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THE-TEMPESTS-I-CRIED-FOR-YOU-c-w-SOME-DAY/113242164748?hash=item1a5dc24e0c:g:1G0AAOSwO95bloZ-

 

[SoulBoy BWFC]

 

[Suinoz]

17 hours ago, Benji said:

If you think Stardust was legit you also believe Santa is real.

I think we need to ask if the label was out and out, a bootleg production, and not blatant plagiarism as in the case of the Simon Soussan debacle of the 70's, which in most cases were unlistenable crap. At least the Stardust releases sound as good as anything I have ever heard, and in some cases better. Anyone got any ideas as to which pressing plant the may have used?

[Sunnysoul]

The Stardust issue has been a topic on Soul Source previously and I'll repeat now what I said back then : if anyone has evidence that Stardust is not a legitimate operation, then please present the evidence. Otherwise Stardust must be regarded as legitimate unless proved otherwise. It's as simple as that.

And no, I'm not being paid by Stardust nor do I have any connection whatsoever with Stardust.

[Benji]

Provide evidence that Stardust is legit, simple as that. Just one thing I noticed, if they really licensed all the tracks, why didn't they state that on the label?

Stardust and its sister label Underground Records are of very questionable legitimacy. And therefore as long as nobody proves otherwise I consider both to be bootleg labels.

[Colnago]

2 hours ago, sunnysoul said:

The Stardust issue has been a topic on Soul Source previously and I'll repeat now what I said back then : if anyone has evidence that Stardust is not a legitimate operation, then please present the evidence. Otherwise Stardust must be regarded as legitimate unless proved otherwise. It's as simple as that.

And no, I'm not being paid by Stardust nor do I have any connection whatsoever with Stardust.

Why ‘must’ it be treated as legit! I certainly have at least suspicions about it and would certainly not pay for one on that basis alone . Why if there’s no statement on the records should we ‘must’not think maybe the opposite and not legit , they were always viewed as such by the vast majority of collectors as boots , 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Colnago

[Roburt]

On DISCOGS it states ... Canadian reissue label known for quasi-legitimate reissue 45s (mastered from existing vinyl records; it occasionally issued singles with odd artist and/or song pairings)  .... seems they SOMETIMES got licenses to reissue stuff (old Elvis Presley RCA tracks) but many times put out stuff that it would have been almost impossible to track down the copyright owners ...

As some have stated above, I'll also keep viewing many of their soul 45's as bootlegs.

[Colnago]

53 minutes ago, Roburt said:

On DISCOGS it states ... Canadian reissue label known for quasi-legitimate reissue 45s (mastered from existing vinyl records; it occasionally issued singles with odd artist and/or song pairings)  .... seems they SOMETIMES got licenses to reissue stuff (old Elvis Presley RCA tracks) but many times put out stuff that it would have been almost impossible to track down the copyright owners ...

As some have stated above, I'll also keep viewing many of their soul 45's as bootlegs.

So at best roburt, a dodgy reissue

[El Corol]

Well whoever at Stardust paired Liz Verdi with a Cilla Black track, at least had a sense of humour, they do share a similar vocal style:-\

[Cheapsiderecords]

On 18/09/2018 at 06:28, chalky said:

The shop was probably the inspiration for the name rather than the shop being responsible for the label.  The label was iwned by AngloAmerican, Martin and Tim.  

Sharon and her husband originally started the label. I was browsing there a few weeks ago and she had some ot the later releases. I was asking her about them.

She couldn't remember how many they had put out. She used to run Martin's shop in Hamilton. There is a rumour Martin is looking to open a new shop in Hamilton.

[Sunnysoul]

Underground / Stardust have been reissuing  major label pop and rock artists such as Elvis, Manfred Mann, Jimmy Gilmer as well as soul & RnB since the mid 70's. Until the end of the 80's vinyl was still the primary music media and ,  for major labels ,  their greatest source of revenue. Wouldn't you think the major record companies' lawyers would have come down like a ton of bricks on any outfit that was openly and illegally issuing and selling their product ?

 

Yes,  Discogs states: "Canadian reissue label known for quasi-legitimate reissue 45s (mastered from existing vinyl records; it occasionally issued singles with odd artist and/or song pairings) and compilation CDs of questionable mastering quality. "

So,  Underground / Stardust do simple one off licensing deals with big and small labels ? So what ? Many other legit outfits do that. 

They also find that production costs are reduced by simply dubbing off existing discs rather than going to the trouble of gaining access to master tapes. Not exactly a crime is it ?

Odd artist/song pairings? Again,  makes commercial sense to appeal to two markets instead of one on the same single release. That's smart business.

And if the legal authorities want to pursue them, guess what? Their address is clearly shown on the label.  They're easy to find. They obviously think they have nothing to hide.

 

And they've been operating since the mid 70's with no apparent legal issues. They must be doing something right, mustn't they?

 

And as for finally concluding that they therefore must be legit ? Well, in democratic countries at least ,  it's called the "presumption of innocence".

But  then again ,  the strange world of northern soul is a law unto itself isn't it?

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by sunnysoul

[Corbett80]

....

Edited September 25, 2018 by corbett80

[Roburt]

10 hours ago, sunnysoul said:

 

And as for finally concluding that they therefore must be legit ? Well, in democratic countries at least ,  it's called the "presumption of innocence".

 

Whatever you wanna type, I'll still count them as a bootleg outfit.