Magnum Records - Help Please

[Blackpoolsoul]

It may have come up before.....I can't see it

Does any one know the history of this LABEL please

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Blackpoolsoul

[Mal C]

the below link to Dave Rimmer's site gives you all the releases...

 

MAGNUM records

Edited August 29, 2018 by Mal C

[Blackpoolsoul]

Thanks

It was the Bio/history of the label I was after ....owner etc.

[Chalky]

Mercedes Music seems common for the first batch of releases at least, find out who owns that and that if possible.

Edited August 29, 2018 by chalky

[Roburt]

Nothing really concrete from my end, just a few bits of info ...

Magnum obviously had loose ties with another couple of LA labels;   Mutt & Jeff     . . plus .  . . Wonder 

At least two guys involved with stuff on the label were 'connected' on the LA music scene ........

   1/  ELLIOT CHAVERS (who recorded as Elliot Shavers) ... he wrote for & arranged / produced some LA studio sessions .. earlier he had a R&B cut released on Zan-Dan in the US in 63 which was flipped over (B side becoming A) on it's Aussie release. The track was retitled as "Surfies Stomp" and this created quite a stir 'down under' as the 1st surf record to be released in the country (don't ask me how that happened, I have no idea). Elliot was associated (on & off) with Magnum for about 4 years 

  2 / JIMMY JOHNSON (& his band). He was involved with at least 7 Magnum releases ... either up-front or backing up / producing the likes of Johnny Wyatt. He ran his own recording studio in Watts, so I guess quite a bit of the Magnum stuff would have been cut there.

 

So either Jimmy & / or Elliot could have been involved in the ownership or running of the labels ... but that's just my speculation.

[Robbk]

Mercedes Music was owned by L.A.'s Soul station, KGFJ, DJ, Hunter Hancock.  It was the house music publisher for Hancock's earlier label, Swingin' Records, as it was for Magnum (which was at least co-owned by him).  Jimmy Johnson was the main producer and A&R man, and his band provided the instrumentation on most of their in-house productions,  Elliot Chavers was not an owner.  Mutt & Jeff was co-owned and run by Joe(y) Jefferson.  Magnum leased a couple productions from Jefferson.  Yes, most of Magnum's cuts (all their in-house sessions) were probably recorded at Johnson's studio.  Jefferson probably produced Charles Perry elsewhere, and Royce Esters produced the Ollie Jackson, Jobete cuts, which were likely recorded in Hollywood by Hal Davis, where he took most, if not all of his Motown-related productions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by RobbK

[Blackpoolsoul]

2 hours ago, RobbK said:

Mercedes Music was owned by L.A.'s Soul station, KGFJ, DJ, Hunter Hancock.  It was the house music publisher for Hancock's earlier label, Swingin' Records, as it was for Magnum (which was at least co-owned by him).  Jimmy Johnson was the main producer and A&R man, and his band provided the instrumentation on most of their in-house productions,  Elliot Chavers was not an owner.  Mutt & Jeff was co-owned and run by Joe(y) Jefferson.  Magnum leased a couple productions from Jefferson.  Yes, most of Magnum's cuts (all their in-house sessions) were probably recorded at Johnson's studio.  Jefferson probably produced Charles Perry elsewhere, and Royce Ester produced the Ollie Jackson, Jobete cuts, which were likely recorded in Hollywood by Hal Davis, where he took most, if not all of his Motown-related productions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks so much, you guys are really, really good at this stuff

[Roburt]

KGFJ had a team of old DJ's in 66 ... they were replaced shortly afterwards by a mainly different bunch of guys (see 1968 line-up below).

 

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Roburt

[Chalky]

Rudy Harvey was also a Dj at KDFJ and owned ither labels around the same time, Amazon etc. He could have had a hand in the label?

[Robbk]

Herman Griffith was one of KGFJ's DJs during the mid 1960s.  He was a part owner of L.A.'s Joker Records, which had a connection with Hal Davis and his L.A. Jobete Music operation, and recorded several Jobete Music songs on their own artists.  But, just because Hunter Hancock owned a Soul label and was a KGFJ DJ, doesn't mean that it was likely that any other KGFJ DJ was involved in Magnum.  I doubt that any other DJ was involved in his Swingin' Records.  Hancock was a Caucasian man who was a holdover, who had been a DJ with that radio station when it had had an MOR and News format before it was changed to R&B in the late 1950s.  He adapted himself to The African-American community, who was their new audience.  He had a decent relationship with his colleagues.  But, I doubt that any of them participated in his record labels.

[The Yank]

Just wanted to add a few things about Hunter Hancock. The Swingin' label was owned by Mr. Hancock and his business partner Roger Davenport.

     I don't think Hunter had to adapt to the African- American community since he had been playing R & B on KVFD (later KPOP) since the late 1940's.

         He joined the station in 1944 and is considered to be one of the 1st deejays to play R & B in the western parts of the U.S. . He started broadcasting 

Jazz in 1944 and switched to R & B in 1947. in 1949, Jay McNeely recorded this for Hunter- 

[The Yank]

In 1955, he added a co-host to his radio program- Margie the wife of Tony WIlliams of the Platters. He also had a tv show on KCBS- "Rhythm and 

Bluesville". In this year he started working nights at KGFJ where he worked until 1968. 

    So - he may have been white but he did had ties to the black community for over 20 years.

Edited August 30, 2018 by the yank

[Robbk]

4 hours ago, the yank said:

Just wanted to add a few things about Hunter Hancock. The Swingin' label was owned by Mr. Hancock and his business partner Roger Davenport.

     I don't think Hunter had to adapt to the African- American community since he had been playing R & B on KVFD (later KPOP) since the late 1940's.

         He joined the station in 1944 and is considered to be one of the 1st deejays to play R & B in the western parts of the U.S. . He started broadcasting 

Jazz in 1944 and switched to R & B in 1947. in 1949, Jay McNeely recorded this for Hunter- 

Thanks for correcting my comments.  I remembered incorrectly, that Hancock came from MOR to Jazz in the '40s, then to R&B in the late '40s.  I didn't mean to imply that he had no ties to The Black Community - only that he was much older than most of his fellow DJs at KGFJ, and so it wasn't a good bet that one of them was a partner in his record label.

[Roburt]

AND OF COURSE ... KGFJ DJ in the mid 60's Magnificent Montague was involved with the Packers recordings AND wasn't he also heavily involved in Magnificent Records.

[Blackpoolsoul]

Do we know of info about Ollie Jackson please apart from Pepper release I can't find anything 

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Do we know of info about Ollie Jackson please apart from Pepper release I can't find anything 

He could be Ollie Hoskins of Ollie and the Nightingale’s who also recorded for Pepper

[Theothertosspot]

Is there a Sonny Daye connection too, on Power Records?  

Edited September 26, 2019 by Theothertosspot

[Chalky]

8 minutes ago, Theothertosspot said:

Is there a Sonny Daye connection too, on Power Records?  

Connection to what Magnum!  Sonny Daye is Frank Wilson. 

[Theothertosspot]

Frank Wilson on Power, Chris Clark on Joker, both labels from LA, both Jobete Music, both Motown artists, both moonlighting?

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Theothertosspot

[Blackpoolsoul]

Could this be Mr Esters and Michael Jackson connection as writer

https://wavenewspapers.com/group-wants-local-control-restored-to-compton-college/

Edited September 26, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[Theothertosspot]

Could Hutch, co writer be, Willie Hutchinson as there may be a connection? He also being LA based.

Think there is also a Pipkin\Gordon connection too, as in Modern records, which threads back to Jobete music.

Although i may have it all wrong.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Theothertosspot

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, Theothertosspot said:

Could Hutch, co writer be, Willie Hutchinson as there may be a connection? He also being LA based.

Think there is also a Pipkin\Gordon connection too, as in Modern records, which threads back to Jobete music.

Although i may have it all wrong.

Willie Hutch and Hal Davis ?

[Chalky]

Just because it is a Jobete publishing track doesn’t necessarily mean it is motown and Motown behind it. If Motown didn’t take up the tracks their writers put to them they were quite entitled to use elsewhere and often did.  

What do you think Frank Wilson and Chris Clark were moonlighting on?  Is Frank Wilson credited on anything on Magnum, which artist do you think is Frank Wilson?

Edited September 27, 2019 by Chalky

[Robbk]

On 26/09/2019 at 12:58, Theothertosspot said:

Could Hutch, co writer be, Willie Hutchinson as there may be a connection? He also being LA based.

Think there is also a Pipkin\Gordon connection too, as in Modern records, which threads back to Jobete music.

Although i may have it all wrong.

Absolutely!  Hutch was a nickname for Willie Hutch (Hutchison).  Davis was Hal Davis.  Frank Wilson wasn't moonlighting.  He was going about his regular business as an independent songwriter, producer, arranger, and sometimes A&R man.  His contract with Jobete Music, L.A. was not exclusive.  It allowed him to continue to work for other music companies, record labels, and to produce his own productions.  That was also true for Hal Davis, Marc Gordon, The Pipkin Cousins, Willie Hutch, Ed Cobb, and all the other personnel signed to L.A. Jobete.  I don't believe they had ANY full-time music-related employees with exclusive contracts.  Furthermore, all the songs they sold to Jobete Music were usable by them in their own outside productions, IF Motown didn't release a record using them after a given period subsequent to their recording (I believe it was 6 months).  So, Hal Davis, Marc Gordon, Chester and Gary Pipkin, Frank Wilson, Willie Hutch, Royce Esters, Ed Cobb, Herman Griffith, Al Capps, Charles Wright, and others, could use a Jobete song on one of their own, independent productions for release on other than a Motown label.  Several of the singers used in those productions were background singers they used when making the Jobete demo recordings used as a guide for the Motown contracted singers, and to prove Motown ownership of the songs.

[Robbk]

On 27/09/2019 at 00:48, Chalky said:

Just because it is a Jobete publishing track doesn’t necessarily mean it is motown and Motown behind it. If Motown didn’t take up the tracks their writers put to them they were quite entitled to use elsewhere and often did.  

What do you think Frank Wilson and Chris Clark were moonlighting on?  Is Frank Wilson credited on anything on Magnum, which artist do you think is Frank Wilson?

Are you confusing Chris Clark with Connie Clark?  I don't believe Chris Clark worked with the L.A. Jobete people until Motown moved to L.A.  And I don't recall her having any of her recordings released on a non-Motown L.A. label.  I seem to remember that Frank Wilson told interviewers that Connie Clark was NOT Chris Clark, but another female singer from The L.A. Area.

[The Yank]

Chris Clark was recommended to the Motown Detroit offices by Hal Davis in 1963 . She worked various office 

jobs (receptionist etc.) for a few years before cutting her first single. While she may not have worked with the

West Coast writers/ producers there is a definite West Coast connection. 

  It is believed that Connie Clark and Chris Clark are not the same person. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by The Yank

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

Are you confusing Chris Clark with Connie Clark?  I don't believe Chris Clark worked with the L.A. Jobete people until Motown moved to L.A.  And I don't recall her having any of her recordings released on a non-Motown L.A. label.  I seem to remember that Frank Wilson told interviewers that Connie Clark was NOT Chris Clark, but another female singer from The L.A. Area.

 

[Robbk]

On 26/09/2019 at 12:43, Blackpoolsoul said:

Could this be Mr Esters and Michael Jackson connection as writer

https://wavenewspapers.com/group-wants-local-control-restored-to-compton-college/

Yes, that's the Royce Esters who did some songwriting and producing for Jobete Music's L.A. office before Motown moved to L.A.  Maybe Michael Jackson sang an old Jobete L.A. song Esters wrote in the early to mid 1960s?  Ordid Esters also write for Motown AFTER they moved to L.A.?

[Robbk]

On 26/09/2019 at 12:32, Theothertosspot said:

Frank Wilson on Power, Chris Clark on Joker, both labels from LA, both Jobete Music, both Motown artists, both moonlighting?

 

Chris Clark never recorded a song that appeared on Joker Records.  That was Connie Clark.  I believe Frank Wilson (or Hal Davis) said in an interview that Connie Clark was a different person from Chris, and was a singer also from L.A.  I also seem to remember Chris Clark saying that she had never dealt with Joker Records, and that she, herself, was NOT the singer on the Connie Clark record.

[Kaygee]

Was Frank Wilson Sonny Daye on Long Long Road To Happiness, was told it was him a long time ago, he is also on credits.

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, KayGee said:

Was Frank Wilson Sonny Daye on Long Long Road To Happiness, was told it was him a long time ago, he is also on credits.

Indeed and the other single "When Are You Coming Home"

[Chalky]

9 hours ago, KayGee said:

Was Frank Wilson Sonny Daye on Long Long Road To Happiness, was told it was him a long time ago, he is also on credits.

He was but there is also another Sonny Daye who isn’t Frank. 

[Blackpoolsoul]

37 minutes ago, Chalky said:

He was but there is also another Sonny Daye who isn’t Frank. 

Sonny Daye (real name Thomas Hawkins)..... Sly Slick & Wicked (not the group from Cleveland), who passed 2016, I believe ?

Some of these AKA names ended up in court !!!

https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/the-great-pretenders/Content?oid=1496687

Edited September 30, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 29/08/2018 at 21:01, Roburt said:

Nothing really concrete from my end, just a few bits of info ...

Magnum obviously had loose ties with another couple of LA labels;   Mutt & Jeff     . . plus .  . . Wonder 

At least two guys involved with stuff on the label were 'connected' on the LA music scene ........

   1/  ELLIOT CHAVERS (who recorded as Elliot Shavers) ... he wrote for & arranged / produced some LA studio sessions .. earlier he had a R&B cut released on Zan-Dan in the US in 63 which was flipped over (B side becoming A) on it's Aussie release. The track was retitled as "Surfies Stomp" and this created quite a stir 'down under' as the 1st surf record to be released in the country (don't ask me how that happened, I have no idea). Elliot was associated (on & off) with Magnum for about 4 years 

  2 / JIMMY JOHNSON (& his band). He was involved with at least 7 Magnum releases ... either up-front or backing up / producing the likes of Johnny Wyatt. He ran his own recording studio in Watts, so I guess quite a bit of the Magnum stuff would have been cut there.

 

So either Jimmy & / or Elliot could have been involved in the ownership or running of the labels ... but that's just my speculation.

I found this article

"Elliott Shavers, a Texas-born musician who got his start as an R&B singer after he moved to Los Angeles. He was only active for six years between 1961 and 1967, but in that time he recorded over 30 published songs for smaller labels such as Imbo, Ellen, and Magnum. Several times he garnered near-national attention and got picked up by a bigger label for national releases, which happened with “Scratch That Itch,” which he released on King Records under the name “Elliott Shavers & His Blazers.” Shavers kept a low profile after those 6 years in the industry."

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=https://soul-in-groove.eklablog.com/elliott-chavers-shavers-a90543771&prev=search

Edited September 30, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[Blackpoolsoul]

It appears that, thanks to all your help (particularly the suggestions at the top of this page), that Magnum is as follows and any clarification would be great

Label owner: Roger Davenport & Hunter Hancock, Los Angeles, CA (1964-1968)

https://www.electricearl.com/dws/hunter.html

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-aug-11-me-hancock11-story.html

Edited September 30, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 28/09/2019 at 16:41, Robbk said:

Absolutely!  Hutch was a nickname for Willie Hutch (Hutchison).  Davis was Hal Davis.  Frank Wilson wasn't moonlighting.  He was going about his regular business as an independent songwriter, producer, arranger, and sometimes A&R man.  His contract with Jobete Music, L.A. was not exclusive.  It allowed him to continue to work for other music companies, record labels, and to produce his own productions.  That was also true for Hal Davis, Marc Gordon, The Pipkin Cousins, Willie Hutch, Ed Cobb, and all the other personnel signed to L.A. Jobete.  I don't believe they had ANY full-time music-related employees with exclusive contracts.  Furthermore, all the songs they sold to Jobete Music were usable by them in their own outside productions, IF Motown didn't release a record using them after a given period subsequent to their recording (I believe it was 6 months).  So, Hal Davis, Marc Gordon, Chester and Gary Pipkin, Frank Wilson, Willie Hutch, Royce Esters, Ed Cobb, Herman Griffith, Al Capps, Charles Wright, and others, could use a Jobete song on one of their own, independent productions for release on other than a Motown label.  Several of the singers used in those productions were background singers they used when making the Jobete demo recordings used as a guide for the Motown contracted singers, and to prove Motown ownership of the songs.

I have noticed the spelling of Jobette (maybe a printing error ?) and the B side writers ?

 

[Chalky]

9 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I found this article

"Elliott Shavers, a Texas-born musician who got his start as an R&B singer after he moved to Los Angeles. He was only active for six years between 1961 and 1967, but in that time he recorded over 30 published songs for smaller labels such as Imbo, Ellen, and Magnum. Several times he garnered near-national attention and got picked up by a bigger label for national releases, which happened with “Scratch That Itch,” which he released on King Records under the name “Elliott Shavers & His Blazers.” Shavers kept a low profile after those 6 years in the industry."

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=https://soul-in-groove.eklablog.com/elliott-chavers-shavers-a90543771&prev=search

If it is the Elliott Shavers I know and have spoken to in the past he didn't keep a low profile, he was a well known Jazz musician and was alive a well a few years ago.  Not spoken to him for a few years though.

[Robbk]

11 hours ago, Chalky said:

He was but there is also another Sonny Daye who isn’t Frank. 

And there was also another L.A. Frank Wilson who wrote songs for Motown!    And there are a bunch of Robert Kleins, too! 

[Robbk]

8 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I have noticed the spelling of Jobette (maybe a printing error ?) and the B side writers ?

 

The spelling error, "Jobette" was pretty common, probably because the name was pronounced more like that spelling would represent in English than Jobete.  9It was pronounced Jo-Bet  for Joy, Berry, and Terry.  During the early days of Anna, Ray-Ber, and the earliest Tamla, the name was spelt "Jobette" almost as frequently as "Jobete", especially on Anna Records, and early Tamla.  So, I guess The Gordys couldn't decide which to use, and people who had seen it spelled the alternative (misspelled) way, thought it was correct, especially given that it was pronounced that way.  Willie Hutch and Hal Davis on Side A - Kent Harris (who also wrote a few songs for Jobete L.A. on the B Side.  The only Talmadge I know of in the record business in L.A. in the 1960s was Sid Talmadge, who owned and operated Record Merchandising (record distributors) on 9th Street near Vermont.  He was a big businessman.  I'd be kind of surprised to find out that he wrote songs together with Hal Davis and Kent Harris.  He DID distribute Magnum Records' products.  But, maybe his son was a musician and songwriter?  During the mid and late '60s and up to 1972, I had friends working at their warehouse, and so, got to buy records there for 50 cents each, or 40 cents apiece in whole boxes.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Robbk

[Robbk]

2 hours ago, Chalky said:

If it is the Elliott Shavers I know and have spoken to in the past he didn't keep a low profile, he was a well known Jazz musician and was alive a well a few years ago.  Not spoken to him for a few years though.

I agree with you, and NOT the article, which states that he kept a low profile after leaving the music industry completely in 1967.  He was around and on the scene at least into the beginning of the '70s, when I moved to Holland.

[The Yank]

2 hours ago, Robbk said:

  But, maybe his son was a musician and songwriter? 

There was a Malcolm Talmadge (Sid's son?) who also worked at Record Merchandising Co.

[Robbk]

40 minutes ago, The Yank said:

There was a Malcolm Talmadge (Sid's son?) who also worked at Record Merchandising Co.

Yes, that must have been Sid's son, If he was in his 20s.  If he was in his 40s or 50s, then he was Sid's brother.

[Blackpoolsoul]

9 hours ago, Robbk said:

Yes, that must have been Sid's son, If he was in his 20s.  If he was in his 40s or 50s, then he was Sid's brother.

I wonder if it was more likely to be Sam who wrote (Suddenly) with/for Brenda Holloway (1964), which was produced by Hal Davis

Edited October 1, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[The Yank]

The Don't Forget The Motor City web site and the liner notes to "Brenda Holloway - The Motown Anthology" show the 

writer of "Suddenly" to be SID Talmadge.

[Chalky]

Sid Talmadge also owned Highland Records. 

[Chalky]

Sid Talmadge, Dootsie Williams 

Talmadge (l): L.A.-based record distributor, and principal of Rush, Highland and related labels
Williams (r): L.A.-based producer, songwriter, song publisher and principal of Dootone Records and related labels (nè Walter Williams)
with The Penguins (l to r): Cleve Duncan, Bruce Tate, Dexter Tisby and Curtis Williams, at Dolphin's of Hollywood record shop
 

https://www.fineprintheroes.com/main.php?g2_view=keyalbum.KeywordAlbum&g2_keyword=The+Penguins&g2_itemId=1137

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

The Don't Forget The Motor City web site and the liner notes to "Brenda Holloway - The Motown Anthology" show the 

writer of "Suddenly" to be SID Talmadge.

Perfect info I did wonder if some sources had it wrong

[Robbk]

So Sid Talmadge owned, or co-owned, both Highland and Magnum.  No wonder some records were on both labels.

[Theothertosspot]

Whats with the Rydal, Pennsylvania connection, with regards Doc Records, Champion Records (distributed by Tollie (is that part of Vee Jay, Chicago?)) Pipkins, Ed Cobb, Jobete? or is there no correlation! 

 

 

[Chalky]

26 minutes ago, Theothertosspot said:

Whats with the Rydal, Pennsylvania connection, with regards Doc Records, Champion Records (distributed by Tollie (is that part of Vee Jay, Chicago?)) Pipkins, Ed Cobb, Jobete? or is there no correlation! 

 

 

They are all West Coast recordings so not sure whybthey have a Pennsylvania address.

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