Stemmons Express

[Chalky]

Karma

101 American Blues - If I Were A Carpenter/All I Saw Was You

201 Stemmons Express - Woman Love Thief/Love Power

301 Sincerley San Jose - What The World Needs Now/You Don't Get Young Anymore

401 Happiness - Burning Mountain/Luck Love Life and LAughter

501 Kar-mels - I Found A True Love/Hard Boiled Coffee

[Pete S]

501 Kar-mels - I Found A True Love/Hard Boiled Coffee

At last! That's the one I've got that I can't find. Been doing my head in trying to remember what it was.

[Chalky]

At last! That's the one I've got that I can't find. Been doing my head in trying to remember what it was.

glad I can put your mind at rest

[Guest Matt Male]

i thinki it's just the timbre of the singer's voice. listening to it right now. just doesn't do it for me.

I know what you mean, it's got something of the pub singer on a kareoke about it...

'Foolish to think..ba ba ba bumm, that she ever spoooke the truuuuuth de dum dum dum...'

[soulAdequateNP]

Whether or not Karma was based in Texas (I for one believe it was), I think it's more curious how 2 different Precisions backing tracks ended up on either side of the Stemmons 45

Precisions tracks got around a bit didn't they - "If This Is Love" of course found its way to Eddie Spencer in Canada

[Dave Abbott]

Whether or not Karma was based in Texas (I for one believe it was), I think it's more curious how 2 different Precisions backing tracks ended up on either side of the Stemmons 45

me too

i like both sides of the stemmons 45 myself, vocally not up to the precisions imo, but both worthy. Edging toward 'love thief' against 'misery' just for atmosphere

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 09/12/2006 at 14:46, Chalky said:

 

 

glad I can put your mind at rest

I know I am very late to this thread, but now know that there is a Texas connection and some wondered how a Detroit record could be connected, I have found another connection Barbara Mercer

Also an Article on SamSam Coplin - Google Books.pdf

Edited January 19, 2020 by Blackpoolsoul

[Winsford Soul]

Wish I still had my lovely Wand issue.  It's one of about 10 records that I regret letting go from the whole collection 7 years ago.  

[Chalky]

Sam Coplin owned Karma along with family members and it is a Dallas based label, 2730 Stemmons Freeway Rm 610, listing Sam Coplin as President, Leonard Coplin as Vice-President, and Gerald Coplin as Secretary/Treasurer.  According to a comment on 45cat Sam Coplin was also Gerald if I ma reading it right? 

Quote

Sam Coplin's signed name shows Gerald R. Coplin, according to the copyright certificates filed for his Karma label releases.
All Songwriters resided in Dallas, Texas.
Coplin's business was located in Stemmons Tower in downtown Dallas, likely where the group name came from

Stemmons Express taking their name from the label address it seems.

[Blackpoolsoul]

6 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Sam Coplin owned Karma along with family members and it is a Dallas based label, 2730 Stemmons Freeway Rm 610, listing Sam Coplin as President, Leonard Coplin as Vice-President, and Gerald Coplin as Secretary/Treasurer.  According to a comment on 45cat Sam Coplin was also Gerald if I ma reading it right? 

Stemmons Express taking their name from the label address it seems.

Seems odd but maybe, about Sam and Gerald being same person

Edited January 19, 2020 by Blackpoolsoul

[Chalky]

Diggin' it may be the songwriter on WLT alongside Coplin, Lewis is Jay Lewis who was Little Joe Hinton under another name at some point in his career and worked and recorded for Motown.  It is possible he heard the Precision and took it back to Dallas?  All juts guess though.  He recorded for Motown in 70 so after both the Precessions and Stemmons Express was released.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RG_LAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT226&lpg=PT226&dq=jay+lewis+songwriter&source=bl&ots=W5k0QrMTFf&sig=ACfU3U2Bd8I__XOi9PepDmCKXpIdSYZZtw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj8muftzI_nAhUHUxUIHbtrC_E4ChDoATAFegQIChAB#v=onepage&q=jay lewis songwriter&f=false

Edited January 19, 2020 by Chalky

[Steve G]

Actually Coplin told me he had recorded the group but they didn't have a name at the time. He played the track down the phone to Florence Greenberg and she said "great, what is the group's name?". Coplin, needing an answer, looked out of his window and saw the freeway and that is how he came up with the name. That was obviously before it came out on Karma, and also before it came out on Wand. Soon after the record came out (within weeks) the lead singer of Stemmons Express died. 

[Tlscapital]

22 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I know I am very late to this thread, but now know that there is a Texas connection and some wondered how a Detroit record could be connected, I have found another connection Barbara Mercer

Also an Article on SamSam Coplin - Google Books.pdf

Oops, my-my that's well spotted !!! Such poor muffled down mastering job they did on this Capitol issue in comparison with the Sidra release, I actually never bothered to look at it closer. Good you did.

So that could explain how they letted "the wolf in sheep clothing" into the Sidra/Drew vaults and allow him to steal/borrow those 1966 backing tracks and "lend" them for the Stemmons Express over-dub recording...

Or were they "given to him" on fair terms not even to have their publishing rights acknowledged after promesses of other future deals with major companies just before the dismissal of the Sidra company short after November 1967 ?

Edited January 20, 2020 by Tlscapital

[Blackpoolsoul]

6 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

Oops, my-my that's well spotted !!! Such poor muffled down mastering job they did on this Capitol issue in comparison with the Sidra release, I actually never bothered to look at it closer. Good you did.

So that could explain how they letted "the wolf in sheep clothing" into the Sidra/Drew vaults and allow him to steel/borrow those 1966 backing tracks and "lend" them for the Stemmons Express over-dub recording...

Or were they "given to him" on fair terms not even to have their publishing rights acknowledged after promesses of other future deals with major companies just before the dismissal of the Sidra company short after November 1967 ?

Very shortly after as the Caiptol release is 11th December 1967

[Tlscapital]

2 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Very shortly after as the Caiptol release is 11th December 1967

Yes as shown below. Indeed the second 'lease on life' of the 2 last releases on Sidra post dates the lasts label productions.

This begs the question; was the use of the Precisions backing tracks almost a year later given or stolen ?

This Sam (officially he signs as Gerald apparently) Coplin character is not so clear or necessary benefiting the benefit of the doubt IMO.

Not crediting the musical productions for his Karma release and re-release on Wand (even getting rid of Jay Lewis in the composition credit) shows.

Barbara Mercer Sidra 9012 (Oct. 1967)

Timmy Willis Sidra 9013 (Nov. 1967)

Last release on Sidra then dismissal of the label before these got re-issued

Barbara Mercer Capitol 2059 (Nov. 1967)

Timmy Willis Veep 1279 (Dec. 1967)

[Chalky]

6 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Yes as shown below. Indeed the second 'lease on life' of the 2 last releases on Sidra post dates the lasts label productions.

This begs the question; was the use of the Precisions backing tracks almost a year later given or stolen ?

This Sam (officially he signs as Gerald apparently) Coplin character is not so clear or necessary benefiting the benefit of the doubt IMO.

Not crediting the musical productions for his Karma release and re-release on Wand (even getting rid of Jay Lewis in the composition credit) shows.

Barbara Mercer Sidra 9012 (Oct. 1967)

Timmy Willis Sidra 9013 (Nov. 1967)

Last release on Sidra then dismissal of the label before these got re-issued

Barbara Mercer Capitol 2059 (Nov. 1967)

Timmy Willis Veep 1279 (Dec. 1967)

My guess stolen. There are other instances of backing tracks used elsewhere without permission, Dave Hamilton backing track on Monique for instance.  Dave had no idea.

[Tlscapital]

23 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Seems odd but maybe, about Sam and Gerald being same person

Thanks for posting this article. It kinds of put a light on the character this Sam Colin guy was. Suing John Lennon (or anybody else for that matter )  because a song's title bared the word 'karma' !? Is that guy anything else but a megalomaniac paranoid crook nut ?

Both backing tracks 'such misery' and 'if this is love' where stolen (or maybe borrowed but...) from the Sidra/Drew vaults to release these none the less fantastic new compositions by this Houston group on the Karma Houston based label without credentials to the originators.

Quote; he says he has been successful because he surrounded himself with "businessmen, not frustrated musicians" (nice to say BTW...). Now, get his 'punch line' on this; "easier to teach music to a businessman than to teach business to a music man"... This clearly is bull Sh*t !

Which one was he then ? Do I hear a business man trying to flip flop the reader's mind while pretending doing it for the music ? He was just a stealer that even manage to sell it to Wand records to re-release the best record from his Karma label trying to cash on music he stole in the first place.

Hear me; I always loved the Stemmons Express but never could get my head around how this backing track ended up there ! How could it have been in done a 'nice' way as in 'fair'. Finishing the article with his quote "And Karma belongs to me".

T H E R E ' S   N O T H I N G    E L S E    T O    S A Y

Edited January 20, 2020 by Tlscapital

[Blackpoolsoul]

9 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

Thanks for posting this article. It kinds of put a light on the character this Sam Colin guy was. Suing John Lennon (or anybody else for that matter )  because a song's title bared the word 'karma' !? Is that guy anything else but a megalomaniac paranoid crook nut ?

Both backing tracks 'such misery' and 'if this is love' where stolen (or maybe borrowed but...) from the Sidra/Drew vaults to release these none the less fantastic new compositions by this Houston group on the Karma Houston based label without credentials to the originators.

Quote; he says he has been successful because he surrounded himself with "businessmen, not frustrated musicians" (nice to say BTW...). Now, get his 'punch line' on this; "easier to teach music to a businessman than to teach business to a music man"... This clearly is bull Sh*t !

Which one was he then ? Do I hear a business man trying to flip flop the reader's mind while pretending doing it for the music ? He was just a stealer that even manage to sell it to Wand records to re-release the best record from his Karma label trying to cash on music he stole in the first place.

Hear me; I always loved the Stemmons Express but never could get my head around how this backing track ended up there ! How could it have been in done a 'nice' way as in 'fair'. Finishing the article with his quote "And Karma belongs to me".

T H E R E ' S   N O T H I N G    E L S E    T O    S A Y

I hope this is not finished as I have sent a message to Stevie Nicks to see if she had more info (she was in this duo with Lindsey Buckingham), way way before Fleetwood Mac, if it's true

Edited January 20, 2020 by Blackpoolsoul

[Steve G]

It is of course more than entirely possible that McGregor resold the backing track to Sam Coplin. Wouldn't be the first time that type of thing happened and he was a bit of a wheeler dealer character.  I did speak to Sam a few years ago and he couldn't remember much about the origins of the track, but he could remember the group and how the record got to Wand. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Steve G

[Blackpoolsoul]

47 minutes ago, Steve G said:

It is of course more than entirely possible that McGregor resold the backing track to Sam Coplin. Wouldn't be the first time that type of thing happened and he was a bit of a wheeler dealer character.  I did speak to Sam a few years ago and he couldn't remember much about the origins of the track, but he could remember the group and how the record got to Wand. 

Sam originated from Michigan before moving to Dallas so he may have had contacts and of course in the article it mention that Black Acts performed at "Central Forest" so he must have had the opportunity to discuss "thing" with people in the "right" places

[The Yank]

I wanted to add one more release to the Karma discography at the top

of this page- Karma #601- Dr. Tom and His Friends- "Happiness Journey"-

the 1st single to use a moog synthesizer according to Sam Coplin.

 

 

[Tlscapital]

5 hours ago, Steve G said:

It is of course more than entirely possible that McGregor resold the backing track to Sam Coplin. Wouldn't be the first time that type of thing happened and he was a bit of a wheeler dealer character.  I did speak to Sam a few years ago and he couldn't remember much about the origins of the track, but he could remember the group and how the record got to Wand. 

Yes that got. And yes again, I agree with you that there should always be room for doubt. I even left some of that in my previous sentencing  Some or a little at least  But since he left out all the Drew and Sidra credentials on the Stemmons Express record, this can only be intentional in my book. And so even if he was given those backing track reels by someone with authority over hem, it's once again all about him, himself and he.

[Tlscapital]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

I wanted to add one more release to the Karma discography at the top

of this page- Karma #601- Dr. Tom and His Friends- "Happiness Journey"-

the 1st single to use a moog synthesizer according to Sam Coplin.

 

 

More to go my way. Did I say the guy was megalomaniac ?  Reading that I thought this fact can't be right nor true. Not a specialist on such matter the answer was only few clicks away and here we are; https://moogfoundation.org/moog-a-history-in-recordings-by-thom-holmes-part-two/

 

[Steve G]

12 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

Yes that got. And yes again, I agree with you that there should always be room for doubt. I even left some of that in my previous sentencing  Some or a little at least  But since he left out all the Drew and Sidra credentials on the Stemmons Express record, this can only be intentional in my book. And so even if he was given those backing track reels by someone with authority over hem, it's once again all about him, himself and he.

If you take a backing track and put new words over it, 9 times out of 10 the original writers / producers will be gone in my experience looking at other independent records where that has happened. Maybe he wasn't told those details by whoever he got the tracks from, we just don't know 52 years later. He is certainly a larger than life character but as to it all being about "him", yes I agree on that but it is hardly unique in this business. The sueing of Lennon was just one of a number of episodes in his life.   

[Blackpoolsoul]

37 minutes ago, Steve G said:

If you take a backing track and put new words over it, 9 times out of 10 the original writers / producers will be gone in my experience looking at other independent records where that has happened. Maybe he wasn't told those details by whoever he got the tracks from, we just don't know 52 years later. He is certainly a larger than life character but as to it all being about "him", yes I agree on that but it is hardly unique in this business. The sueing of Lennon was just one of a number of episodes in his life.   

If this album is anything to go by assuming it is the same place, there were some "mad/brilliant" performances going on in his club (which apparently was later owned by Erykah Badu !!!)

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Blackpoolsoul

[Our Kid]

Had always thought they named the group after the road (Stemmons Expressway) due to it's notoriety as the scene of JFK's fatal shooting.

Paul

[Steve G]

13 hours ago, Our Kid said:

Had always thought they named the group after the road (Stemmons Expressway) due to it's notoriety as the scene of JFK's fatal shooting.

Paul

Please see above. 

[Soulstrutter]

15 hours ago, Our Kid said:

Had always thought they named the group after the road (Stemmons Expressway) due to it's notoriety as the scene of JFK's fatal shooting.

Paul

Do you mean here:  

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DiWhOvcldZIC&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=stemmons+expressway&source=bl&ots=o2hFsxJ45w&sig=ACfU3U1vRW4VNSzw5Q7qwqsn214WidSc_Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiH5Nrpo5znAhUAUBUIHbg_DLgQ6AEwBnoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=stemmons expressway&f=false

[Blackpoolsoul]

50 minutes ago, Soulstrutter said:

Do you mean here:  

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DiWhOvcldZIC&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=stemmons+expressway&source=bl&ots=o2hFsxJ45w&sig=ACfU3U1vRW4VNSzw5Q7qwqsn214WidSc_Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiH5Nrpo5znAhUAUBUIHbg_DLgQ6AEwBnoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=stemmons expressway&f=false

Found this quote

The group took their name from the Stemmons Freeway (Interstate 35E) which in turn was named after Dallas businessman Leslie Stemmons. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Blackpoolsoul

[Mike]

before posting it may be worth some members taking a bit of time to read some of the posts already made!

 

On 19/01/2020 at 16:06, Steve G said:

Actually Coplin told me he had recorded the group but they didn't have a name at the time. He played the track down the phone to Florence Greenberg and she said "great, what is the group's name?". Coplin, needing an answer, looked out of his window and saw the freeway and that is how he came up with the name. That was obviously before it came out on Karma, and also before it came out on Wand. Soon after the record came

out (within weeks) the lead singer of Stemmons Express died. 

 

[Soul-slider]

Still no photo of the group? 

[Tlscapital]

5 hours ago, Soul-slider said:

Still no photo of the group? 

Years ago I was shown a small 'paper clip' in a fanzine taken from an American music magazine with a very contrasted black and white photo (not the best quality but still) of the group. If I can remember who showed me that, I could maybe ask him if he still has that...

[Joesoap]

Did a quick Google and found this. From Billboard Sept 30 1967. Perhaps sheds light how Coplin got hold of the tapes? (Apols if this has been posted before - some of the links on this thread seem to be dead / expired)  

Edited August 12, 2021 by Joesoap

[Joesoap]

...Also this!

https://casetext.com/case/coplin-v-state

[Kenb]

On 19/01/2020 at 11:34, Blackpoolsoul said:

Seems odd but maybe, about Sam and Gerald being same person

They are not the same person (Just in case you still think they maybe).

Gerald was about 6 years older than Sam. He was an accounting Major (school) & attorney. Sam was more into journalism. That's why you see Gerald's name on 'official documents'. It's an interesting story and one i'll write up one day.

[GeneM]

Stemmons Express - Karma, vs Wand. about 10 months apart on the 2 releases...

July 1968 on Karma 
May 1969 on Wand

[Tlscapital]

Anyone ever got the opportunity to compare the quality in playback between both the Karma and Wand release simultaneously ?

Regardless of one being a vinyl press and the other one vinyl and whatever prejudicial preferences for one or the other if ever ?

Am not talking 'Inner groove noises or distortions' like those related to conditions but really of 'gain', 'depth' and/or 'frequency response'.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Tlscapital