Unbelievable

[Julianb]

I heard this true story yesterday from a well known DJ, collector and seller of records.

Punter " I'll have this one please"

Seller " You know it's a bootleg don't know?"

Punter "Yes, I only need it for DJing"

I won't name names, but happened in the North West recently

[Mickyfinn]

I’m not sure I have a problem with this, as long as he doesn’t try and pass it off as an original. I notice the well known DJ didn’t have a problem selling it! Soul fans at venues want to hear the best tunes and dance to them.

I wouldn’t care if the whole DJ’s set  was digital, as long as it was well chosen and it packed the dance floor. I think this vinyl snobbery which is a hangover from the seventies,  holds the scene back.

By the way,  I speak as a lifelong soul fan and a record collector.

[Rocky]

I’m with you on this. I gave most of my 45s away to friends when I stopped playing them and listened to digital recordings. I don’t like the blatant profiteering from some so called ‘bastions of Northern Soul’. If they love the scene so much, why do they want to rip their fellow enthusiasts off?

Edited June 25, 2018 by Rocky

[Mark S]

Pay real money to get in a venue expect real records . Its not snobbery either do it right or dont bother .

[Mickyfinn]

In the old days the only way you could hear a favourite tune was to attend a venue where a DJ that owned it was playing. Even then we often had no idea who the true artist of a song was, because half of them were ‘covered up’ to protect the DJ’s livelihood. This has not been the case for decades, but this legacy still mainly influences how things are done today.

My all time favourite tune is Eddie Parker: I’m Gone, anyone waiting in the queue to get into a venue with Smartphone can listen to it. But you will be unlikely to hear it inside, because so few people own it. Which is tragic.

I don’t believe nowadays that Northern Soul DJs should only be the reserve of collectors of rare vinyl. It should open up to who can put the best music together, on the best sound systems and pack the dance floor. I had hoped the kids would have taken this up and done their own thing, and created their own scene. We will know if and when they do, because all the old crusties will look down their nose at it and hopefully leave them to it.  

[Tomangoes]

If there is any chance whatsoever of the writer / singer of said rare original vinyl getting a royalty, it won't be from any of the sales over the years of the rare original vinyl, or plays thereupon.... 

I hold more respect for the artists and writers than I do for somebody simply because they have a ton of rare vinyl.

Inevitably some folks will buy a super rare collection, and probably never appreciate the blood sweat and tears the seller went through to get it. Does that diminish the new owners credibility? It does in my opinion.

Good job we are not all the same.

OVO has its devotees, and good luck to them.

Ed

 

[Guest]

I rather think we may have been here before, and very recently. Anyone who has read my posts on various threads regarding this whole "OVO" thing will already know my views. Suffice it to say that in my opinion (and I'm right, everyone who disagrees is wrong) a DJ only has one bloody job. Satisfy the paying punters by playing what they want, and keeping the floor filled at the same time. End, of, story. 

You cant dance to the sight of a label. You can of course stroke your chin, pontificate about rarity, and tell all and sundry about how you paid three grand for it etc. etc. You CAN dance to a sound, no matter the medium being used. Almost half a sodding century on, and we're still pandering to the egos of DJs and collectors who want to be DJs. 

At the risk of repeating myself, back in the early to mid 70's I did a bit of DJing. Why would I take the risk of using a Hoagy Lands Stateside and getting robbed, rolled etc., when I could use a Laurie pressing that cost me a quid? My record box, even back then, was worth an absolute fortune, but my DJ box far, far less. Guess what? People still danced to what I played. 

If you only want to attend events playing OVO, then fine. I really don't have one single issue with that. No one should. Just don't look down your noses at events where, shock horror, boots, pressings and reissues may get an airing, ok? Had there never been any of these, we may never have had a bloody scene in the first place.

[Baz1]

1 hour ago, mroche said:

In the old days the only way you could hear a favourite tune was to attend a venue where a DJ that owned it was playing. Even then we often had no idea who the true artist of a song was, because half of them were ‘covered up’ to protect the DJ’s livelihood. This has not been the case for decades, but this legacy still mainly influences how things are done today.

My all time favourite tune is Eddie Parker: I’m Gone, anyone waiting in the queue to get into a venue with Smartphone can listen to it. But you will be unlikely to hear it inside, because so few people own it. Which is tragic.

I don’t believe nowadays that Northern Soul DJs should only be the reserve of collectors of rare vinyl. It should open up to who can put the best music together, on the best sound systems and pack the dance floor. I had hoped the kids would have taken this up and done their own thing, and created their own scene. We will know if and when they do, because all the old crusties will look down their nose at it and hopefully leave them to it.  

Well I've got to disagree on this one I started collecting soul music about 10 years ago and when I finally get hold of a tune I've wanted for some time the feeling is magical so for me to have hunted high and low for it only to walk in a soul nite and hear it played on an mp3 is just not right and if I saw it coming via mp3 i would leave and that is because the scene captivated me 15 years ago because we would drive 200 miles just because a certain dj had that tune and may play it and if it hit the deck it was omg on the floor and what a feelin♥♥ we travel now to whitchurch 200 mile round trip and a hotel stopover just cos we know on there anniversary that ted or john may play it ♥ the scene has got a mystery to it that I love but it's soul musics rarity that keeps me coming back everytime ♥ baz 

[Patto]

14 minutes ago, baz1 said:

Well I've got to disagree on this one I started collecting soul music about 10 years ago and when I finally get hold of a tune I've wanted for some time the feeling is magical so for me to have hunted high and low for it only to walk in a soul nite and hear it played on an mp3 is just not right and if I saw it coming via mp3 i would leave and that is because the scene captivated me 15 years ago because we would drive 200 miles just because a certain dj had that tune and may play it and if it hit the deck it was omg on the floor and what a feelin♥♥ we travel now to whitchurch 200 mile round trip and a hotel stopover just cos we know on there anniversary that ted or john may play it ♥ the scene has got a mystery to it that I love but it's soul musics rarity that keeps me coming back everytime ♥ baz 

Nicely put Baz.There is simply no Mystery,Passion,pride,Excitement in a box full of Bootlegs, Re issues,and god forbid MP3s.

[Frankie Crocker]

Depends on the record and the venue where it could be played. Nothing wrong with boots being spun at the youth club, pub back-room on a Tuesday, charity barbecue at the cricket club etc. The venue may even be a drinking den where nobody ever dances but they like the tunes despite not having a clue what’s playing. if it’s a few youngsters spinning largely to their mates, who’s really bothered?

This topic has cropped up so often, it’s about time someone invented an OVO trademark for events’ flyers, posters, web-pages etc so everyone knows where they stand. Maybe the Record Police could be given free entry to supervise the DJ’s and publish playlists? Podium girls (or boys) holding up placards with OVO on to reassure the most critical...

I doubt that any top DJ would stoop to play a bootleg at a major venue in prime-time. If they did, I hope someone would name and shame them, ideally on here.

 

[Frankie Crocker]

32 minutes ago, baz1 said:

Well I've got to disagree on this one I started collecting soul music about 10 years ago and when I finally get hold of a tune I've wanted for some time the feeling is magical so for me to have hunted high and low for it only to walk in a soul nite and hear it played on an mp3 is just not right and if I saw it coming via mp3 i would leave and that is because the scene captivated me 15 years ago because we would drive 200 miles just because a certain dj had that tune and may play it and if it hit the deck it was omg on the floor and what a feelin♥♥ we travel now to whitchurch 200 mile round trip and a hotel stopover just cos we know on there anniversary that ted or john may play it ♥ the scene has got a mystery to it that I love but it's soul musics rarity that keeps me coming back everytime ♥ baz 

Best to avoid MP3 venues unless in Majorca, Canaries etc and it’s Trance, House or Techno... If the DJ has a laptop, he’s not a proper DJ - you have to spin discs to be a disc jockey. The DJ with a laptop is a crowd pleaser but only because the term lap dancer was already taken...

[Zed1]

Horses for Courses. Doubtless The DJ doesn't give a toss about playing these boots because his punters don't give a fook either. 

[Chalky]

If you wanna be a fake Dj and a fake promoter just let everyone know so they can make a choice of who and what they wish to support.

And Julian name and shame so we can avoid

Edited June 26, 2018 by chalky

[davidwapples]

I'm ovo most of the time, recently  a top name dj played a tune on an acetate carver thing at an ovo event. I only knew as it had a small hole and the 45 original was only us release.

I was the only one who picked up on this not anyone on the dance floor cared and it was rammed. 

The dj had records worth thousands of pounds and in his sets the cost would have been over 20 thousand pounds to buy them

As for youngsters playing bootlegs to dj at small pub events etc  the only thing worse than a young dj playing a bootleg of a 100 pound tune is the same dj playing an original of the record a dealer has charged him 250 for

Big name djs deceiving  people  living off their reputation from years ago are just taking the piss and trying to hang on to something they don't have

 

[Guest Shufflin]

not really into soul politics BUT one of the good things about the OVO attitude is it keeps people digging for records, turning up new sounds - not necessarily even very rare - but new to the ears - one of the main reasons I will choose to go to a particular event is knowing I'll hear something new, or the thrill (yes) of dancing to an original monster rarity...nothing wrong with a local pub/club playing mp3 or re-issues but a major scene event charging real money should be OVO, otherwise I'll stay at home and dance on my own wooden lounge floor

[Peter99]

Its not "unbelievable" really though. It is probably the most recurrent discussion on the site - in its various guises. 

The sun stroke makes me abrasive 

 

[Mickyfinn]

Tomangoes makes a very valid point. The irony of the scene that values these great artists, is that of all the versions of any popular rare N Soul record, the only chance that the artist gets their deserved royalties is from official re-issues. 

Not from originals, many were covered up in order to guarantee their obscurity, and deny any chance of Financial reward.

[Guest Shufflin]

4 minutes ago, mroche said:

Tomangoes makes a very valid point. The irony of the scene that values these great artists, is that of all the versions of any popular rare N Soul record, the only chance that the artist gets their deserved royalties is from official re-issues. 

Not from originals, many were covered up in order to guarantee their obscurity, and deny any chance of Financial reward.

that is mixing up 2 issues - what's wrong with buying official re-issues for home listening? nothing.

I have bought plenty of Kent LP's/CD's (other labels are available )  - so I'm sure some artists or their estates get some money from the scene - I hope - but I would expect a big name DJ to play the original record not a CD or re-issue vinyl

[Woodbutcher]

29 minutes ago, mroche said:

Not from originals, many were covered up in order to guarantee their obscurity, and deny any chance of Financial reward.

Twaddle ... none were 'covered-up' to deny artists financial rewards ... 

[Chalky]

24 minutes ago, WoodButcher said:

Twaddle ... none were 'covered-up' to deny artists financial rewards ... 

Laughable comment innit, they are second hand records.  The artists have had more recognition because of this scene, they got none in the country and zero sales of their work. 

Edited June 26, 2018 by chalky

[Winsford Soul]

I have spent thousands over the years buying my soul records. I also probably spent a few thousands promoting Winsford nighters.  Why would I play or any of my fellow DJs play a boot to the  attendees who as nighter goers expect and probably demand original copies of the records.  It's a unwritten law of the nighter scene and other discerning venues, has been and will always be that way. 

Why has this subject arisen again.  Have I missed the point

Steve 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Winsford Soul

[Mickyfinn]

The meaning of the statement was: the act of covering up meant the artists continued to be unrecognised for their talent, even though they now had any huge following. It wasn’t done for this reason obviously, it was done to protect the Livliehoods of the DJs that found them. But the consequences were the same. I thought the point was clear!

[Dwr]

Oh dear grow up.

[Tomangoes]

Ummm

You have an original copy of say Wanted and needed....and you have a boot.

One is 5 grand, and one is 50 quid.

Must be tempting to play the boot and display the original?

They will both wear out eventually!

Ed

[Mark S]

15 minutes ago, mroche said:

The meaning of the statement was: the act of covering up meant the artists continued to be unrecognised for their talent, even though they now had any huge following. It wasn’t done for this reason obviously, it was done to protect the Livliehoods of the DJs that found them. But the consequences were the same. I thought the point was clear!

Cobblers it was all a bit of fun added a bit of mistque all got sussed out in the end anyway what do you know you think boots are ok 

[Kenb]

5 hours ago, Joey said:

I rather think we may have been here before, and very recently. Anyone who has read my posts on various threads regarding this whole "OVO" thing will already know my views. Suffice it to say that in my opinion (and I'm right, everyone who disagrees is wrong) a DJ only has one bloody job. Satisfy the paying punters by playing what they want, and keeping the floor filled at the same time. End, of, story. 

You cant dance to the sight of a label. You can of course stroke your chin, pontificate about rarity, and tell all and sundry about how you paid three grand for it etc. etc. You CAN dance to a sound, no matter the medium being used. Almost half a sodding century on, and we're still pandering to the egos of DJs and collectors who want to be DJs. 

At the risk of repeating myself, back in the early to mid 70's I did a bit of DJing. Why would I take the risk of using a Hoagy Lands Stateside and getting robbed, rolled etc., when I could use a Laurie pressing that cost me a quid? My record box, even back then, was worth an absolute fortune, but my DJ box far, far less. Guess what? People still danced to what I played. 

If you only want to attend events playing OVO, then fine. I really don't have one single issue with that. No one should. Just don't look down your noses at events where, shock horror, boots, pressings and reissues may get an airing, ok? Had there never been any of these, we may never have had a bloody scene in the first place.

I think (unless i've missed the point in your response Joey) it's slightly different to own the record (carry it maybe, or not) and play out the 'sub'. As opposed to not owning the OV at all, and playing out the 'sub'. Personally...i don't want to go to where there is no DJ investment in the OV.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Kenb said:

I think (unless i've missed the point in your response Joey) it's slightly different to own the record (carry it maybe, or not) and play out the 'sub'. As opposed to not owning the OV at all, and playing out the 'sub'. Personally...i don't want to go to where there is no DJ investment in the OV.

I can understand completely where you're coming from Ken. But, to me, there's more to this than just owning expensive original vinyl 45's. Back when me and thee were nowt but young kiddies on the scene, very few people could afford to splash excessive amounts of cash on records, so us younger DJs doing the local midweek clubs would have no hesitation in using Boots/pressings etc. In fact, and believe it or not, I even used Boots when I did a spot in the oldies room at Samantha's. Guess what? No one cared. They just danced and had a great time.

We didn't have the sheer number of venues as are available nowadays either, and the punters, all part of our little underground scene and all known to us, just wanted to listen to the sounds, and dance to them. All my job was, was to give them what they wanted, and to keep the floor full. It's not rocket science. I had a magnificent collection of British issues and demos, but would never have countenanced taking them out to DJ with. The chances of being relieved of them were far too great, and besides, they were bought as objects of love and desire, NOT as "tools". My collection was my pride and joy, why would I have put it at risk just so others could salivate over it? That wasn't what I was behind the decks for.

Now, here we are in 2018, almost fifty years later, and every Tom, Dick and Harry, weighed down with a baby boomer inheritance and a final salary pension, can afford to spend thirty grand on a box of seven inch goodies, and call himself a DJ at any one of a gazillion events which are on every night of the week. It's not the same as it was. Completely different set of circumstances entirely. 

BUT.......my main point still stands. 2018 or 1973, the DJ has only one job, to fill the floor, and the punter only has one desire, to listen and dance to the SOUND. I totally get the OVO thing, I really do. But, if a punter is going to have a bad night and get all bitter and twisted just because a DJ played a tune that was on the wrong label, even though it may have filled the dance floor, then perhaps our scene has lost its way a wee bit. 

[Benji]

Are Do you lot ever get tired of the old original vs boot dj'ing discussion?  I wish there was a huge *yawn* emoticon available.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Benji
grammar

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Benji said:

Are Do you lot ever get tired of the old original vs boot dj'ing discussion?  I wish there was a huge *yawn* emoticon available.

We're all bloody ancient now, or at least most of us are, and as such, we tend to moan and groan about things like most old buggers. As a recent thread said, it's now a youth culture in the hands of old men. If you want the thread spiced up a bit, I could always throw in a couple of names. Say, Ian Levine, and maybe Russ Winstanley? That'd prevent any yawning

[Soulsides]

Quick !

There's a storm approaching...

 

28 minutes ago, Benji said:

Are Do you lot ever get tired of the old original vs boot dj'ing discussion?  I wish there was a huge *yawn* emoticon available.

 

[Joesoap]

Oh ffs! DJs have always done this. Where does this clueless idea about virtuous OVO playlists come from? Utter nonsense!

[Jez Jones]

14 hours ago, Joey said:

I rather think we may have been here before, and very recently. Anyone who has read my posts on various threads regarding this whole "OVO" thing will already know my views. Suffice it to say that in my opinion (and I'm right, everyone who disagrees is wrong) a DJ only has one bloody job. Satisfy the paying punters by playing what they want, and keeping the floor filled at the same time. End, of, story. 

You cant dance to the sight of a label. You can of course stroke your chin, pontificate about rarity, and tell all and sundry about how you paid three grand for it etc. etc. You CAN dance to a sound, no matter the medium being used. Almost half a sodding century on, and we're still pandering to the egos of DJs and collectors who want to be DJs. 

At the risk of repeating myself, back in the early to mid 70's I did a bit of DJing. Why would I take the risk of using a Hoagy Lands Stateside and getting robbed, rolled etc., when I could use a Laurie pressing that cost me a quid? My record box, even back then, was worth an absolute fortune, but my DJ box far, far less. Guess what? People still danced to what I played. 

If you only want to attend events playing OVO, then fine. I really don't have one single issue with that. No one should. Just don't look down your noses at events where, shock horror, boots, pressings and reissues may get an airing, ok? Had there never been any of these, we may never have had a bloody scene in the first place.

Just using one or two points from this to debate. IF the dreaded OVO is so 'passe' and its only the 'sound' that is important...that concept doesn't seem to have been picked up in the promotion of the myriad of events every weekend. I can't be arsed to check the events section on here.. but I would wager that a high proportion of them display in their 'ads' a vinyl policy or 100% vinyl only policy...some even add 'original vinyl only      . So the promoters out there do seem to think that punters care about format and not JUST the 'sound'.

I have yet to see an event advertised as 'bootlegs' played here or 'Laptops r us'......SO..maybe it IS that the punters DO care about format...ALL those promoters out there can't be wrong ..can they ?..or maybe that it makes them feel 'part of it' ..far be it from comments on here dictate where people go !

 

Hoagy Land's on Stateside !...mmm......or even your Leon Haywood on Fat Fish (in acknowledgment of the OP  ) possibly in 1970 along with ya gear and money and smart leather coat.. it may be at risk.......I'm not sure you gonna get 'rolled for it in 2018  everyone is 'loved up', happy clappy'  and keeping the Faith..nowadays....  

 

I think the point  that Mr Bentley has raised is the almost 'throwaway '  attitude that I KNOW its a boot but its ok to DJ with !!.......

Edited June 27, 2018 by jez jones

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, jez jones said:

Just using one or two points from this to debate. IF the dreaded OVO is so 'passe' and its only the 'sound' that is important...that concept doesn't seem to have been picked up in the promotion of the myriad of events every weekend. I can't be arsed to check the events section on here.. but I would wager that a high proportion of them display in their 'ads' a vinyl policy or 100% vinyl only policy...some even add 'original vinyl only      . So the promoters out there do seem to think that punters care about format and not JUST the 'sound'.

I have yet to see an event advertised as 'bootlegs' played here or 'Laptops r us'......SO..maybe it IS that the punters DO care about format...ALL those promoters out there can't be wrong ..can they ?..or maybe that it makes them feel 'part of it' ..far be it from comments on here dictate where people go !

 

Hoagy Land's on Stateside !...mmm......or even your Leon Haywood on Fat Fish (in acknowledgment of the OP  ) possibly in 1970 along with ya gear and money and smart leather coat.. it may be at risk.......I'm not sure you gonna get 'rolled for it in 2018  everyone is 'loved up', happy clappy'  and keeping the Faith..nowadays....  

 

I think the point  that Mr Bentley has raised is the almost 'throwaway '  attitude that I KNOW its a boot but its ok to DJ with !!.......

I very much doubt that OVO is "passe" in any way whatsoever. In fact, the very opposite is true. 99% of venues seem to be insistent upon it, or at least advertise themselves as such. My point is about what is the more important, the sound or the format. My points raised regarding the scene and its attitudes to this back in 73 were meant to illustrate the very different attitude so prevalent today. Somewhere along the line its all changed. There's a much more increased level of vinyl snobbery now. Of course, a certain amount existed back in the day, but now? The scene reeks of it. I know for an absolute fact that the big name DJs in the early days would all play boots, pressings, reissues etc. at some point. I recall one doing an entire spot using just emi-discs FFS. No-one cared. They just danced and had a great time. And no, there were no events advertised as boots only/OVO back then, as we all JUST WANTED TO HAVE  GOOD TIME.

I also know I wouldn't get rolled for my box/gear/cash/coat nowadays. But back then, as you probably well know, it was a very real danger, every single night. And a long leather in 73? Nope. More likely to be a crombie or three quarter length sheepskin. Didnt buy my first long leather 'til 74.

My Hoagy Lands? Two issues and a demo. Triple ummm!!!! I wont even mention the rest of the collection, as it makes me far too sad that I got rid of it all in 75/76 for the equivalent of pennies. But being a British collector, my Leon Heywood was a Soul Sounds boot, not an import! And I'll use that to try to emphasise the point I've been making all along. Every single time I played it, it filled the floor. PEOPLE DIDNT CARE about the label. Now they do, increasingly so. When did this happen, why did it happen, is it a good or a bad thing, and where do we go from here?  If a venue full of people want to dance to a certain sound, and the DJ can't play it because he only has a boot/reissue, what's happened to us all? 

[Peter99]

Bloody hell. My sun burn has somewhat diminished. Unlike this rerun, of reruns, of previous rerun threads. 

Margaret! Margaret! 

[Jnixon]

On 25/06/2018 at 23:45, Mark S said:

Pay real money to get in a venue expect real records . Its not snobbery either do it right or dont bother .

Yep thats my view, if people are playing on fake records pay the door fee and drinks with moody tenners. 

[Bbrich]

10 hours ago, Joey said:

here we are in 2018, almost fifty years later, and every Tom, Dick and Harry, weighed down with a baby boomer inheritance and a final salary pension, can afford to spend thirty grand on a box of seven inch goodies, and call himself a DJ

or you could spend a couple of hundred quid on a box of boots and call yourself a DJ. Can I suggest that one requires a bit more commitment, time and passion than the other - decide for yourselves.

[Tomangoes]

There is an element of economics justification involved when for example a large entry fee is asked and you get a lappy linked to a sound system, with a DJ who simply scrolls the list of what comes on next....i suppose.

But if it's a cheap as chips entry fee, I guess you can't complain.

Ed

 

[Jnixon]

1 minute ago, tomangoes said:

 

But if it's a cheap as chips entry fee, I guess you can't complain.

Ed

 

You definitely can. If its free maybe not. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, bbrich said:

or you could spend a couple of hundred quid on a box of boots and call yourself a DJ. Can I suggest that one requires a bit more commitment, time and passion than the other - decide for yourselves.

Not necessarily. One just requires a heap of cash, the other doesn't. Commitment, time and passion were all in abundance back in the days when none of us had massive amounts of money to lavish on our collections or DJ boxes. Just as I'm absolutely sure that some of the guys and girls DJ-ing at small, lesser known events nowadays have just as much commitment, time, and passion as the ones with boxes worth six figure sums. In fact, they probably have more commitment, (and thicker skins) as they also have to deal with insults, opprobrium, and derision from the self appointed soul police and vinyl snobs.

Listen, it should all be about choice. One way is no better, nor worse than the other. My argument has always been about the most fundamental aspect of the subject. What's most important here, the sound, or the label? To me, what dragged me to the scene was the sound. I didn't have a bloody clue about labels and artists when I was twelve or thirteen years old. I just knew that the music was the most wonderful thing my ears had every been subjected to.

Just f***ing enjoy the music people. That is, after all, why we built this scene.

[Peter99]

Gonna ask Mike for OTO forum. 

 

Original threads only. 

[Geeselad]

Thats the thing with guys who use cd, carvers and downloads the're always so creative. They search out the unknown obscure tunes that are not available on ovo and bring them to tbe masses. We need to thank them for driving the scene forward. 

[Bbrich]

9 minutes ago, Joey said:

23 minutes ago, bbrich said:

or you could spend a couple of hundred quid on a box of boots and call yourself a DJ. Can I suggest that one requires a bit more commitment, time and passion than the other - decide for yourselves.

Not necessarily. One just requires a heap of cash, the other doesn't. Commitment, time and passion were all in abundance back in the days when none of us had massive amounts of money to lavish on our collections or DJ boxes. Just as I'm absolutely sure that some of the guys and girls DJ-ing at small, lesser known events nowadays have just as much commitment, time, and passion as the ones with boxes worth six figure sums. In fact, they probably have more commitment, (and thicker skins) as they also have to deal with insults, opprobrium, and derision from the self appointed soul police and vinyl snobs.

I'm talking about now not back in the day as i thought you were when you said about pensions and inheritence spends on records...  I dont have a problem with non ovo at pub/small type events (re-issues not boots), but if I have to pay & or travel to an event I simply want to know what I can expect. I dont think I have ever seen an event or a dj advertising the fact that boots/re-issues will be played, so if they think there is a good argument for it then they should just be upfront about it.  

This is a well worn debate and the arguments have been aired many times on both sides. I would just like transparency before i pay my money.

 

[Chalky]

What’s unbelievable is some of the comments on here.  Yes it is all about the music and it is what attracted us to the scene (plus our divvy mates weren’t there) but that was all based on rare original records, and not so rare.  Yes the odd emi etc was played to push a newie or a record stuck with a collector that would at one time never have been heard but it was essentially originals.  But today it is different.  Loads of Djs with the biggies on original releases, there really is no need to book billy bootleg. 

If youncan’t do it right then f*** o** and leave it to those that can. If you insist then be a good promoter and tell people paying their hard earned that you are playing bootlegs at your event. The punter then has a choice. 

[Ladymidnight]

2 minutes ago, chalky said:

What’s unbelievable is some of the comments on here.  Yes it is all about the music and it is what attracted us to the scene (plus our divvy mates weren’t there) but that was all based on rare original records, and not so rare.  Yes the odd emi etc was played to push a newie or a record stuck with a collector that would at one time never have been heard but it was essentially originals.  But today it is different.  Loads of Djs with the biggies on original releases, there really is no need to book billy bootleg. 

If youncan’t do it right then f*** o** and leave it to those that can. If you insist then be a good promoter and tell people paying their hard earned that you are playing bootlegs at your event. The punter then has a choice. 

Spot on.

[Jnixon]

25 minutes ago, Joey said:

Not necessarily. One just requires a heap of cash, the other doesn't. Commitment, time and passion were all in abundance back in the days when none of us had massive amounts of money to lavish on our collections or DJ boxes. Just as I'm absolutely sure that some of the guys and girls DJ-ing at small, lesser known events nowadays have just as much commitment, time, and passion as the ones with boxes worth six figure sums. In fact, they probably have more commitment, (and thicker skins) as they also have to deal with insults, opprobrium, and derision from the self appointed soul police and vinyl snobs.

Listen, it should all be about choice. One way is no better, nor worse than the other. My argument has always been about the most fundamental aspect of the subject. What's most important here, the sound, or the label? To me, what dragged me to the scene was the sound. I didn't have a bloody clue about labels and artists when I was twelve or thirteen years old. I just knew that the music was the most wonderful thing my ears had every been subjected to.

Just f***ing enjoy the music people. That is, after all, why we built this scene.

I could play a set of superb soul music for under 100 quid. If you can’t you ain’t no feckin DJ. 

[Chalky]

6 minutes ago, JNixon said:

I could play a set of superb soul music for under 100 quid. If you can’t you ain’t no feckin DJ. 

You aren’t allowed to use your imagination, you have to have a set that is more expensive than the previous Dj.  It is all about what a Dj spends not what he or she contributes. They also think cause they spend a lot they have a god given right to Dj.  Fookin boring usually too. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by chalky

[Guest]

I think that both sides of this argument have merit, and both sides don't. What I'm trying to get at, is the most fundamental aspect. Let me put it this way, you attend an event, OK? What would you rather do, dance to, lets say, Just Don't Know, Determination, There was a time, and Whats wrong with me baby, all of which are being played off Soul Sounds boots, or four mega rare R&B type crappy tunes which are all on original vinyl and cost three grand apiece. I'd much rather have a great time listening and dancing to great tunes, regardless of what label they may be on. I don't get my rocks off by intently watching the screen behind the DJ whilst surreptitiously rubbing myself and allowing a small dribble of drool to escape the corner of my mouth. Is there not a common, centre ground?

I totally get the argument reading OVO, believe me, I do. I also believe that promoters should be upfront about their vinyl policy, if thats what floats everyones boat. I just happen to believe that my view isnt necessarily "wrong", nor is the other view necessarily "right". We seem to be having a  discussion/argument about an issue that never used to exist when people were attending clubs and Niters in the early 70's. When, and why, did all this begin?

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, JNixon said:

I could play a set of superb soul music for under 100 quid. If you can’t you ain’t no feckin DJ. 

Its not about how much the spot cost to put together. Its all about filling the floor and making people happy. Or at least thats what it should be. That's my point.

[Chalky]

11 minutes ago, Joey said:

I think that both sides of this argument have merit, and both sides don't. What I'm trying to get at, is the most fundamental aspect. Let me put it this way, you attend an event, OK? What would you rather do, dance to, lets say, Just Don't Know, Determination, There was a time, and Whats wrong with me baby, all of which are being played off Soul Sounds boots, or four mega rare R&B type crappy tunes which are all on original vinyl and cost three grand apiece. I'd much rather have a great time listening and dancing to great tunes, regardless of what label they may be on. I don't get my rocks off by intently watching the screen behind the DJ whilst surreptitiously rubbing myself and allowing a small dribble of drool to escape the corner of my mouth. Is there not a common, centre ground?

I totally get the argument reading OVO, believe me, I do. I also believe that promoters should be upfront about their vinyl policy, if thats what floats everyones boat. I just happen to believe that my view isnt necessarily "wrong", nor is the other view necessarily "right". We seem to be having a  discussion/argument about an issue that never used to exist when people were attending clubs and Niters in the early 70's. When, and why, did all this begin?

But those records on soul sounds boots are played up and down the country on original vinyl by dozens of djs. They aren’t particularly rare. Your arguement doesn’t stand up. 

Those records you think are dross might be enjoyed by the majority of dancers there.  Again your argument doesn’t stand up. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by chalky

[Kenb]

11 hours ago, Joey said:

I can understand completely where you're coming from Ken. But, to me, there's more to this than just owning expensive original vinyl 45's. Back when me and thee were nowt but young kiddies on the scene, very few people could afford to splash excessive amounts of cash on records, so us younger DJs doing the local midweek clubs would have no hesitation in using Boots/pressings etc. In fact, and believe it or not, I even used Boots when I did a spot in the oldies room at Samantha's. Guess what? No one cared. They just danced and had a great time.

We didn't have the sheer number of venues as are available nowadays either, and the punters, all part of our little underground scene and all known to us, just wanted to listen to the sounds, and dance to them. All my job was, was to give them what they wanted, and to keep the floor full. It's not rocket science. I had a magnificent collection of British issues and demos, but would never have countenanced taking them out to DJ with. The chances of being relieved of them were far too great, and besides, they were bought as objects of love and desire, NOT as "tools". My collection was my pride and joy, why would I have put it at risk just so others could salivate over it? That wasn't what I was behind the decks for.

Now, here we are in 2018, almost fifty years later, and every Tom, Dick and Harry, weighed down with a baby boomer inheritance and a final salary pension, can afford to spend thirty grand on a box of seven inch goodies, and call himself a DJ at any one of a gazillion events which are on every night of the week. It's not the same as it was. Completely different set of circumstances entirely. 

BUT.......my main point still stands. 2018 or 1973, the DJ has only one job, to fill the floor, and the punter only has one desire, to listen and dance to the SOUND. I totally get the OVO thing, I really do. But, if a punter is going to have a bad night and get all bitter and twisted just because a DJ played a tune that was on the wrong label, even though it may have filled the dance floor, then perhaps our scene has lost its way a wee bit. 

I agree with much of what you say, but Your Line above -Now, here we are in 2018, almost fifty years later, and every Tom, Dick and Harry, weighed down with a baby boomer inheritance and a final salary pension, can afford to spend thirty grand on a box of seven inch goodies, and call himself a DJ at any one of a gazillion events which are on every night of the week. It's not the same as it was. Completely different set of circumstances entirely...But this...

Also applies to every Tom, Dick and Harry spending peanuts on (boot) seven inch goodies, etc etc. and then the music becomes proliferated (to my mind in an undesirable way) by wannabe DJ's. NB. i'm not and never have been a DJ myself.