Is Pitching Up Ok Or The Work Of The Devil

[Little-stevie]

I was talking to a certain collector/dj the other day and he told me he changes the pitch control on a few tunes,some to +5 ,is this good practice??? you could turn a mid tempo plodder into a floor filler and i know of a tune by a country/western style RnB tune by a white lady that sounds like Ray Pollard at his best at 33 rpm...sorry if this topics been done before but is pitching done by most or is it the work of the devil??? should the tunes be played at the speed they were made or does it not matter to you???? i aint ever pitched up a tune,i have enough problems just pressing start/stop after a few vimpto's without thinking of pitch control..Have you been foooooked up by others messing with the pitch and not re-setting it...Are there any big tunes that have made the grade by pitching,should we all take our whole box and have a mess around,we could be missing out on the next big tune....Not sure if i am for or against really???? in other forms of music its the skill of the dj to play with pitch control but we know that we have some bingo callers on our scene who don't know how to turn the mic down when the tune is playing ..Lets see what you lot think...

[Guest Simon]

I was talking to a certain collector/dj the other day and he told me he changes the pitch control on a few tunes,some to +5 ,is this good practice??? you could turn a mid tempo plodder into a floor filler and i know of a tune by a country/western style RnB tune by a white lady that sounds like Ray Pollard at his best at 33 rpm...sorry if this topics been done before but is pitching done by most or is it the work of the devil??? should the tunes be played at the speed they were made or does it not matter to you???? i aint ever pitched up a tune,i have enough problems just pressing start/stop after a few vimpto's without thinking of pitch control..Have you been foooooked up by others messing with the pitch and not re-setting it...Are there any big tunes that have made the grade by pitching,should we all take our whole box and have a mess around,we could be missing out on the next big tune....Not sure if i am for or against really???? in other forms of music its the skill of the dj to play with pitch control but we know that we have some bingo callers on our scene who don't know how to turn the mic down when the tune is playing ..Lets see what you lot think..

I take it your a bit bored at work like me Stevie

Depends what the record is imo, i've heard things like 'Suspicion', 'Got to have all your love' speeded up & they sound too fast but other things like The Halos 'Just keep on loving me' need to be speeded up cause they're too slow, just depends i would say.

Simon

[Bazza]

I take it your a bit bored at work like me Stevie

Depends what the record is imo, i've heard things like 'Suspicion', 'Got to have all your love' speeded up & they sound too fast but other things like The Halos 'Just keep on loving me' need to be speeded up cause they're too slow, just depends i would say.

Simon

I have commented on this before,I am very much against it,for a start for a DJ to think he or she knows better than the artist/producer,is in my opinion a bit big headed and usually wrong,second one tune that is a favourite of the pitcher uppers is the modern tune " tribute to betty tonight-DJ genisis" I honestly thought there was more than one version of this tune,it is played at all sorts of speeds,third, if a tune at its original speed does fit in with your set play another tune, not bugger about with it to make it fit

Bazza

Edited December 6, 2006 by bazza

[Guest Baz]

I have commented on this before,I am very much against it,for a start for a DJ to think he or she knows better than the artist/producer,is in my opinion a bit big headed and usually wrong,second one tune that is a favourite of the pitcer uppers is the modern tune " tribute to betty tonight-DJ genisis" I honestly thought there was more than one version of this tune,it is played at all sorts of speeds,third, if a tune at its original speed does fit in with your set play another tune, not bugger about with it to make it fit

Bazza

Its not being big headed its making a song that would not work on a dancefloor, actually work! i bet the artis or producer would love to whitness 300 people dancing to there record today no matter what speed it was played at.

I speed/slow loads of things, its a great tool

[Little-stevie]

I have commented on this before,I am very much against it,for a start for a DJ to think he or she knows better than the artist/producer,is in my opinion a bit big headed and usually wrong,second one tune that is a favourite of the pitcher uppers is the modern tune " tribute to betty tonight-DJ genisis" I honestly thought there was more than one version of this tune,it is played at all sorts of speeds,third, if a tune at its original speed does fit in with your set play another tune, not bugger about with it to make it fit

Bazza

So Bazza do you YOU THINK WE SHOULD LEAVE THE SPEEDING UP TO THE CROWD AND NOT THE DJ ..Good to see how both camps think on this question...

[Little-stevie]

Its not being big headed its making a song that would not work on a dancefloor, actually work! i bet the artis or producer would love to whitness 300 people dancing to there record today no matter what speed it was played at.

I speed/slow loads of things, its a great tool

300 dancing to your tunes Baz...Now you have made it ..Good lad..

[Bazza]

So Bazza do you YOU THINK WE SHOULD LEAVE THE SPEEDING UP TO THE CROWD AND NOT THE DJ ..Good to see how both camps think on this question...

if you see what I mean...lol

Bazza

[Jumpinjoan]

I never do it myself.... but i know a man who does!

I just wish he'd remember to put it back right before i go on after him!

[Guest smigger]

I never do it myself.... but i know a man who does!

I just wish he'd remember to put it back right before i go on after him!

DJ'd a couple of moons ago with a lad who pitched up a tune and then forgot about it.

He only realized after I mentioned that I had not known that Mickey Mouse had cut a soul record.

[John Elias]

Pitching's good,dam site easier than turning that bloody handle too fast,phew!

Just a thought...could pitching DOWN be useful in the future?

[Winnie :-)]

Its not being big headed its making a song that would not work on a dancefloor, actually work! i bet the artis or producer would love to whitness 300 people dancing to there record today no matter what speed it was played at.

I speed/slow loads of things, its a great tool

============

I don't get this, how can a song that doesn't work be made to work. If it wasn't made for the dance floor then surely you're defeating the object of the record? Just an observation by the way, not knocking you or anyone else who does it

[Guest Bearsy]

I have commented on this before,I am very much against it,for a start for a DJ to think he or she knows better than the artist/producer,is in my opinion a bit big headed and usually wrong,second one tune that is a favourite of the pitcher uppers is the modern tune " tribute to betty tonight-DJ genisis" I honestly thought there was more than one version of this tune,it is played at all sorts of speeds,third, if a tune at its original speed does fit in with your set play another tune, not bugger about with it to make it fit

Bazza

Bazza you are spot on in my opinion, i have DJ Genesis and there is only one speed to play it and that is at the correct speed and not pitched up,

on another reply by Simon i think, he mentioned Suspicion by the Originals is often pitched right up and he is right as i cant remember the last time ive heard it played out at its normal speed and for me it has ruined the tune just because a dj thinks it sounds better that way.

One thing though that has buggered me though is when i hear a tune for the first time and its pitched up and i like it i then go on the search for it and when i find one it then dont sound right as its not played pitched up and then a tune i may of liked not pitched is now a tune im not so favourable of because it was not played as it was recorded,

work that out if you can

Bearsy.

a 7" record is played at 45 rpm

[Guest NASHEE]

I was talking to a certain collector/dj the other day and he told me he changes the pitch control on a few tunes,some to +5 ,is this good practice??? you could turn a mid tempo plodder into a floor filler and i know of a tune by a country/western style RnB tune by a white lady that sounds like Ray Pollard at his best at 33 rpm...sorry if this topics been done before but is pitching done by most or is it the work of the devil??? should the tunes be played at the speed they were made or does it not matter to you???? i aint ever pitched up a tune,i have enough problems just pressing start/stop after a few vimpto's without thinking of pitch control..Have you been foooooked up by others messing with the pitch and not re-setting it...Are there any big tunes that have made the grade by pitching,should we all take our whole box and have a mess around,we could be missing out on the next big tune....Not sure if i am for or against really???? in other forms of music its the skill of the dj to play with pitch control but we know that we have some bingo callers on our scene who don't know how to turn the mic down when the tune is playing ..Lets see what you lot think...

Tiz deffinitely the evil workings of the devil.....I'll get my 'pitch'fork

[Sean Hampsey]

Been covered a couple of times on here Stevie, and consensus tends to be that many (punter / collectors) don't really approve, but I happen to feel that there are DJ's out there who actually use Pitch control to good effect.

Steve Plumb has used it on certain tuneage in the past... and so have I.

On the other hand it can be used in the extreme. Every time I've followed Sam (many times over the years) I've noticed that he has both decks pitched at +3 or +2 throughout his entire spot. The crowd though don't notice. They just get breathless (which normally results in a satisfying set and a round of applause).

I wouldn't touch most of my playlist but if you've got a good flow going on the floor, you want a good blend or transition and you really want to drop a particular tune before the end of your spot it can be a very useful tool. That's why I think it's there. But in the wrong hands I recognise it can be quite dangerous.

Like most things... it's good in moderation!

Sean

[Dave]

Bazza you are spot on in my opinion, i have DJ Genesis and there is only one speed to play it and that is at the correct speed and not pitched up,

on another reply by Simon i think, he mentioned Suspicion by the Originals is often pitched right up and he is right as i cant remember the last time ive heard it played out at its normal speed and for me it has ruined the tune just because a dj thinks it sounds better that way.

One thing though that has buggered me though is when i hear a tune for the first time and its pitched up and i like it i then go on the search for it and when i find one it then dont sound right as its not played pitched up and then a tune i may of liked not pitched is now a tune im not so favourable of because it was not played as it was recorded,

work that out if you can

Bearsy.

a 7" record is played at 45 rpm

If you like what you hear, surely that justifies it being pitched up?

[Winnie :-)]

If you like what you hear, surely that justifies it being pitched up?

===========

Why not buy something that is dance floor friendly in the first place? Isn't it a way of tricking your audience into liking something that isn't actually what it seems? Should the DJ tell the audience he/she has pitched up a tune?

Winnie:-)

[Guest smigger]

===========

Why not buy something that is dance floor friendly in the first place? Isn't it a way of tricking your audience into liking something that isn't actually what it seems? Should the DJ tell the audience he/she has pitched up a tune?

Winnie:-)

What about messing around with the bass etc....do you think that is acceptable?

I think pitching is OK btw.

[Andyf]

Better than pitching short

Oops wrong thread

[Andyf]

I take it your a bit bored at work like me Stevie

Depends what the record is imo, i've heard things like 'Suspicion', 'Got to have all your love' speeded up & they sound too fast but other things like The Halos 'Just keep on loving me' need to be speeded up cause they're too slow, just depends i would say.

Simon

Funny that, because I think Roy Roberts sounds better at +2 and Halos sounds right just as it is. Horses for courses I suppose

[Dave]

===========

Why not buy something that is dance floor friendly in the first place? Isn't it a way of tricking your audience into liking something that isn't actually what it seems? Should the DJ tell the audience he/she has pitched up a tune?

Winnie:-)

Never thought of it as "tricking" an audience... would you say the same about cover-ups?

As for telling the audience, some folks would be making that announcement after every record.

[Winnie :-)]

Never thought of it as "tricking" an audience... would you say the same about cover-ups?

As for telling the audience, some folks would be making that announcement after every record.

===============

You don't think its mis-representative of the actual record being played then? No I don't think cover ups come into the same category, unless of course the tempo of the record was being tweaked. Are most punters aware that this practice goes on? I mean can someone truly say we're listening to fresh rare stuff, if the record has been pitched up, or are we listening to something that wouldn't make the grade if played normally. Sounds like DJ's are making their own 'ready mades'?

[Dave]

===============

You don't think its mis-representative of the actual record being played then? No I don't think cover ups come into the same category, unless of course the tempo of the record was being tweaked. Are most punters aware that this practice goes on? I mean can someone truly say we're listening to fresh rare stuff, if the record has been pitched up, or are we listening to something that wouldn't make the grade if played normally. Sounds like DJ's are making their own 'ready mades'?

I'd never really given it a lot of thought, but no I don't really think it's "mis-representative".. different people have different ideas of how a record sounds best.

I think it's done a lot... more than some people realise. I've even got one or two door CDs with pitched-up tunes on.

[Sean Hampsey]

===============

Sounds like DJ's are making their own 'ready mades'?

Our friend Mr Levine was doing that 30+ years ago.

Magnificent Montague, Jimmy Bishop, Sly Stone, Fat Daddy, John Richbourg etc. all made a better fist of it though!

Sean

[Winnie :-)]

I'd never really given it a lot of thought, but no I don't really think it's "mis-representative".. different people have different ideas of how a record sounds best.

I think it's done a lot... more than some people realise. I've even got one or two door CDs with pitched-up tunes on.

==========

So in effect are DJ's making their own tailor mades then? Do you not think it gives the impression that they're not actually convinced in the track they're playing if they're pitching it up?

Would it not also bring into question the whole new and underplayed ethic if records were being pitched up so that they suited?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for playing new stuff, but surely the record should stand on its own merits, rather than having to be tweaked?

Winnie:-)

[Richard]

I take it your a bit bored at work like me Stevie

Depends what the record is imo, i've heard things like 'Suspicion', 'Got to have all your love' speeded up & they sound too fast but other things like The Halos 'Just keep on loving me' need to be speeded up cause they're too slow, just depends i would say.

Simon

Wasn't the "original" of Suspicion booted at the wrong speed

Pitching is good in my opinion, both up and down. There are so many good tunes that need that little tweak to make it that bit more dancefloor friendly, Little Joe Hinton's Let's Start A Romance for instance needs a little tweak up.

Edited December 6, 2006 by richard

[Dave]

==========

So in effect are DJ's making their own tailor mades then? Do you not think it gives the impression that they're not actually convinced in the track they're playing if they're pitching it up?

Would it not also bring into question the whole new and underplayed ethic if records were being pitched up so that they suited?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for playing new stuff, but surely the record should stand on its own merits, rather than having to be tweaked?

Winnie:-)

If you think that, why does it apply only to new stuff?

Can't really see it as "tailor-mades" myself. Like I said, I've never really thought it was much of an issue.

[Guest Dodger]

i have DJ Genesis and there is only one speed to play it

Zero rpm preferably.

[Denbo]

I was talking to a certain collector/dj the other day and he told me he changes the pitch control on a few tunes,some to +5 ,is this good practice??? you could turn a mid tempo plodder into a floor filler and i know of a tune by a country/western style RnB tune by a white lady that sounds like Ray Pollard at his best at 33 rpm...sorry if this topics been done before but is pitching done by most or is it the work of the devil??? should the tunes be played at the speed they were made or does it not matter to you???? i aint ever pitched up a tune,i have enough problems just pressing start/stop after a few vimpto's without thinking of pitch control..Have you been foooooked up by others messing with the pitch and not re-setting it...Are there any big tunes that have made the grade by pitching,should we all take our whole box and have a mess around,we could be missing out on the next big tune....Not sure if i am for or against really???? in other forms of music its the skill of the dj to play with pitch control but we know that we have some bingo callers on our scene who don't know how to turn the mic down when the tune is playing ..Lets see what you lot think...

As a collector with a fixed speed turntable (33 & 45 rpm only), there's nothing worse than playing a record that you've heard pitched up, or down, after you've finally tracked it down, only to find it sounds too fast or too slow at home on your own turntable.

I suppose by admiting that I have gone out, tracked down, and purchased a record on the basis that I liked it at the speed I heard it at but didn't know it had been pitched up or down, that the concept works, and in a way it does, BUT it does rather spoil things at home on your fixed speed turntable, don't you think?

Funnily enough though, having said all that, I heard 'Cleopatra' at a venue a few years ago, unbeknown to me at the time it was slowed right down to 33rpm I think, then picked up a copy about a year or so ago, only to find I actually liked it better at the correct speed. So, I guess it's all down to individual taste and the kind of hardware you've got at home. If you're not a collector and simply enjoy your nights out dancing, then I guess there's nothing wrong with pitching.

Hope that all made sense?

[Guest]

I hate it when it changes the pitch of the vocal...however loads of records are tweaked at the various processing stages so maybe it doesn't matter?

[Winnie :-)]

If you think that, why does it apply only to new stuff?

Can't really see it as "tailor-mades" myself. Like I said, I've never really thought it was much of an issue.

============

It would apply to all records not just new stuff, just wasn't aware it was done as much with the old classics?

I'm surprised you can't see what I'm saying, or maybe its just you don't agree? If a record is being played as a 'newie', then IMO it should be played exactly as its meant to be. Then if its accepted, its been done so on its merits. If the same track has to be tweaked for acceptance, to me it says the DJ knows that in reality it wouldn't cut the mustard when played normally. Hence I used the term tailor made, because said DJ is changing the record to suit. I'm not going to labour the point, as you said in the other thread, its each to their own opinion, I just feel that its mis-representing the record, so as to achieve/increase a popularity it may not otherwise have had.

Winnie:-)

[Guest dundeedavie]

==========

So in effect are DJ's making their own tailor mades then? Do you not think it gives the impression that they're not actually convinced in the track they're playing if they're pitching it up?

Would it not also bring into question the whole new and underplayed ethic if records were being pitched up so that they suited?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for playing new stuff, but surely the record should stand on its own merits, rather than having to be tweaked?

Winnie:-)

nonsense , total nonsense , records have ben getting pitched ever since the decks were able to do it ...and i wonder how many tunes you dance to and have no idea they are pitched .

you sure this isn't a convient excuse to have a pop at new and underplayed ethic?

[Richard]

Go on, you know you want to....

[Kev Connellan]

Never realised this was an issue. Pitching up/down is in wide use everywhere.

Hasn't it always been that way?

A good percentage of the records you hear out this Fri/Sat will either be speeded up or slowed down.

[Dave]

Never realised this was an issue. Pitching up/down is in wide use everywhere.

Hasn't it always been that way?

A good percentage of the records you hear out this Fri/Sat will either be speeded up or slowed down.

Spot on Kev!

[Richard]

Would anyone say the gain control shouldn't be used as this is definetly enhancing the recording? shouldn't alter the bass, middle or treble when playing a particular record either??

All those little buttons are there to be made use of

Edited December 6, 2006 by richard

[Guest Baz]

there were hundreds of records pitched up at stafford...............stright fromn the hourses mouth go listen to dean andersons radio show in the media section.

[Jim G]

Been goin for ever, hell even the boots of big sounds were speeded up. Listen to boot of Willie Hutchs' The Duck, booted as Lets Do the Duck by Richard Temple, the Temple boot is quicker.

[hipshaker 05]

i often use the pitch control where i feel necessary, both up and down. i think sometimes you have to bear in mind that many records were not aimed at a dancefloor as such when they were recorded ... but that is how they get used now.

and ... as for the gain control richard ...... i've seen a fair few DJ's who don't seem to think it should be used. shockingly bad volume levels ... all over the show.

[Winnie :-)]

nonsense , total nonsense , records have ben getting pitched ever since the decks were able to do it ...and i wonder how many tunes you dance to and have no idea they are pitched .

you sure this isn't a convient excuse to have a pop at new and underplayed ethic?

============

Dave,

Nonsense is something that just isn't true, so if you're telling me that pitching a record up doesn't change it, I'll stand corrected. If however it does change a record, I'll treat your post with the disdain it deserves. If you can't accept someone can't have an opinion different to your own, then you're really a very blinkered person. As for having a pop at the new and underplayed ethic, get a grip, I'm in modern rooms at most events that have them, went to virtually every dome, scenesville, went to the 100 about 40/50 times in succession, done lifeline etc etc etc. I stand by oldies etc cos I still love them, but not to the extent that I only ever champion them.

Winnie:-)

[Sean Hampsey]

Wasn't the "original" of Suspicion booted at the wrong speed

Yes it was... and played, pitched up a few notches, on Acetate.

As was.....Epitome of Sound "You Don't Love Me" a.k.a. Moses Smith

As Was.... Ann Perry "Circulate" from 33rpm to 45 rpm!!!

As Was... about half of everything played at half of the venues I've been to in the past god knows how many years!

You want to buy / collect original vinyl, file it, admire it, love it, play it in it's original untouched format... then fine, do it in the complete privacy of your own home (I do).

But I also know DJ's who've got the skill, can drop it on a Wav File, Up the tempo, Add the Bass, Reduce the Pitch, cut the CD (or Platter), tweak it, mix it and actually improve the sound of something that otherwise we might not get to hear!

Even as a vinyl junkie and a Soul Music collector of 37 or so years I really don't get too uptight about speeds, formats and media. I just want to hear music, whether pure or adjusted, jacked up or down on any format... vinyl, CD, mp3 or Sky Digital.

Hey, after all said and done... to each his own.

It's only Rock N' Roll!

Sean

[Guest Bearsy]

If you like what you hear, surely that justifies it being pitched up?

Exactly, but it then pisses me off when i realise its not what it should be,

it would probably be better if i had heard it unpitched first or would it,

thats why i personally say leave them be as they were produced.

Bearsy

[Guest Bearsy]

Zero rpm preferably.

now thats another debate

[Guest dundeedavie]

============

Dave,

Nonsense is something that just isn't true, so if you're telling me that pitching a record up doesn't change it, I'll stand corrected. If however it does change a record, I'll treat your post with the disdain it deserves. If you can't accept someone can't have an opinion different to your own, then you're really a very blinkered person. As for having a pop at the new and underplayed ethic, get a grip, I'm in modern rooms at most events that have them, went to virtually every dome, scenesville, went to the 100 about 40/50 times in succession, done lifeline etc etc etc. I stand by oldies etc cos I still love them, but not to the extent that I only ever champion them.

Winnie:-)

no nonsense is something that is nonsensical ....and the statement of dj's making their own tailor mades by altering the pitch is nonsensical .... it was a deliberately contentious statement to get someone to bite and i did

[Bazza]

I want to hear a tune the way it was intended by the artist ,and not the way some big headed arrogant DJ thinks in his opinion I should hear it,one bloke may pitch it up to 3 or 4 another may pitch it down a couple it makes a farce of it...leave em alone,

Bazza

Edited December 6, 2006 by bazza

[Richard]

This is the thing though Bazza, you are not hearing it how the artist intended but how the producer and sound engineers intended.

The artist would have had minimal input unless they were the likes of Stevie Wonder/Smokey Robinson/Marvin Gaye ect , they would have been told what to sing, how to sing it and that's about it really

[Guest Byrney]

I want to hear a tune the way it was intended by the artist ,and not the way some big headed arrogant DJ thinks in his opinion I should hear it,one bloke may pitch it up to 3 or 4 another may pitch it down a couple it makes a farce of it...leave em alone,

Bazza

Taking this a step further, I feel we should all make a concerted effort to hunt down records that have been pitched up down during the production process? Burnings too good for em

[Bazza]

This is the thing though Bazza, you are not hearing it how the artist intended but how the producer and sound engineers intended.

The artist would have had minimal input unless they were the likes of Stevie Wonder/Smokey Robinson/Marvin Gaye ect , they would have been told what to sing, how to sing it and that's about it really

Ok I except that may be the case,but in the example I mentioned earlier "Tribute to betty",I travel around to many venues..and the speeds I have heard this played are ridiculous, some try to make a sort of mini stomper out of it,when in reality it is a steady shuffler,a tune can sound completley different depending on the DJ,surely that should not happen..............or should it ??????

Bazza

[Richard]

Personally I'd say if the crowd warrants it pitch it up, if it's a small venue and you could get away with it leave it as a shuffler.

[Cunnie]

If the tools are there then use e'm if you want to.

End of the day it is 2006 & if you can enhance the sound quality then go for it.

Currently playing Thieves In The Night by The African Twins in my spots at-8, yes you read it right-8 & if my 1210s would go slower i'd play it at about -10.

Why? simply because it's too fast (about 130 bpm) & it sounds better to my ears slowed down & is more dancefloor friendly. We're not getting any younger you know & these old bones can't keep the pace like they used to.

Will post the normal version & the slowed (& edited) versions up if anyones interested when the clip players back up & you'll see what i mean.

Another good example is Don't Break That Rule by Marvell Love. Sounded great in the late 70s/early 80s at the normal speed but so much better for todays scene at about -6. Think Sean Hampsey mentioned this on site before but can't find it but i'm sure he'll confirm it.

[pikeys dog]

I mentioned earlier "Tribute to betty",I travel around to many venues..and the speeds I have heard this played are ridiculous....

Nevermind pitching up or down, this record wants pitching out of the window of a very fast moving car.

Utter, utter shite.

Whatever speed you play it.

Harrumph.