Spinning Around: A History of Soul LP Volume 2 L-Z

[Johndelve]

My new book is now available for purchase and thank you to those who have already bought a copy.  The words on the back cover are

self-explanatory to explain project. Price of this hardback book is merely £20 with £2.90 postage. I can sell anywhere in world but postage will obviously be

higher. Please contact me directly to arrange sales. Thanks.

[Tobytyke]

A must have book. Awaiting the postman!

[Sunnysoul]

15 hours ago, johndelve said:

My new book is now available for purchase and thank you to those who have already bought a copy.  The words on the back cover are

self-explanatory to explain project. Price of this hardback book is merely £20 with £2.90 postage. I can sell anywhere in world but postage will obviously be

higher. Please contact me directly to arrange sales. Thanks.

John , in the Sharon Sole entry it says that the Susan Phillips LP was never actually released but we had a thread a  few years back in which it was confirmed that  the Susan Phillips LP was in fact released and a member posted photos of the LP.  

 

Edited May 21, 2018 by sunnysoul

[Sunnysoul]

[Soulfinger]

I am very much looking forward to this landing in the next couple of days. Volume 1 was terrific.

[manus]

I'll be in touch John for a copy the first volume was very informative.

All the best

Manus

[Johndelve]

7 hours ago, sunnysoul said:

John , in the Sharon Sole entry it says that the Susan Phillips LP was never actually released but we had a thread a  few years back in which it was confirmed that  the Susan Phillips LP was in fact released and a member posted photos of the LP.  

 

Very very interesting...I'd certainly never seen evidence of it, not seen the thread to which you refer and not one ever listed on popsike either. However, a photo seems compelling evidence and that sticker in bottom right corner is intriguing. Not seen one of those on any other All Platinum release.. could it be a foreign issue? Anyway, thanks very much for letting me know.  Best, John

[Sunnysoul]

14 minutes ago, johndelve said:

Very very interesting...I'd certainly never seen evidence of it, not seen the thread to which you refer and not one ever listed on popsike either. However, a photo seems compelling evidence and that sticker in bottom right corner is intriguing. Not seen one of those on any other All Platinum release.. could it be a foreign issue? Anyway, thanks very much for letting me know.  Best, John

Not a sticker John. The LP released immediately after the Susan Phillips LP  (AP 3006) was Donnie Elbert's Where Did Our Love Go (AP 3007) and that LP has a similar design identifying the label at  the bottom right of the front cover ....   it's part of the sleeve itself, not stuck on.

Edited May 21, 2018 by sunnysoul

[Johndelve]

Just checked my own Donnie Elbert copy and you're right...my mind must have gone blank on that...so, yes, no doubt to me then that Susan exists...what a great bit of info...puts it in the all-time rare category....that's one thing my book is for, to stimulate discussion!  thanks again...John

[Sunnysoul]

4 minutes ago, johndelve said:

Just checked my own Donnie Elbert copy and you're right...my mind must have gone blank on that...so, yes, no doubt to me then that Susan exists...what a great bit of info...puts it in the all-time rare category....that's one thing my book is for, to stimulate discussion!  thanks again...John

Also on that snapshot of your book at the top of this thread regarding the SOS Band , you may be interested to know that SOS Band vocalist Mary Davis is very possibly the same artist as the Mary Davis who released an excellent 7" on Conclave in the late 60's ... 

 

[Roburt]

I've posted up a full review of John's book on the NEWS page.

[Kenb]

I've spent a couple of hours this morning skim reading (because it needs much longer to digest properly) Vol 2.

Together with Vol 1, it's my "one book" which i would take to Desert Island ( disks).

well done John, and many thanks.

ATB

[Johndelve]

Ken, really appreciate these words...thank you so much..Best John

[Guest]

I've had this monumental volume for several days now and wanted to convey to Soul Source how worthwhile and impressive 'The History of The Soul Lp' actually is. 

Lias has reviewed and apparently listened to 6,000 soul albums to produce the definitive history of the Soul Music LP. Familiar names such as: Otis Redding, Mary Wells, Temptations, The Whispers, Johnnie Taylor and Sly Stone are comprehensively covered alongside terminally obscure artists that include: Ricky Lance,Tody Tucker, Richard Paradise, New York Port Authority. The ambition and the knowledge displayed throughout is to be applauded. Lias acknowledges the support of some fine doyens of soul writing especially David Cole and John Ridley but this is his own outstanding contribution. John is opinionated but his passion for the music is self evident. I found myself absorbed in his opinions some with which I didn't agree but many of which corresponded with mine. Throughout Lias' love of the genre is evident and he transmitted that passion to me. I felt engaged throughout. 

Whereas the golden age of the 60s and 70s predominates with coverage of a broad spectrum of Lps from: Motown to Southern to Big City to Chicago there is also room for a number of LPs covering associated genres that include:  New Orleans style artists (Tommy Ridgley for example), Latin soul artists (Ralfi Pagan) and some blues-soul artists (Little Milton for example). Obviously USA released albums predominate but where an artist issued an LP in the foreign market they are included (Wess Machine's two Italian only albums are here for example). The whole exercise is a joy to read throughout and my copy will surely become as well thumped as the first edition.

As we all know Soul music is littered with artists that didn't get their just deserves and were ignored by the mainstream music press.  John Lias seeks to address the injustice and succeeds. He's a fine writer whose prose generally flows and I was absorbed in the content. A real triumph I think.

'Roburt' has written a review elsewhere on this site.

[Benji]

Little Milton blue-eyed?

[Stevesilktulip]

This is about the first part and I'm really pleased I didn't find out about it sooner, cos I wouldn't have been able to wait for part two. It's not perfect, but may be the best book yet on Soul Music, give or take Pruters' Chicago Soul.

It's actually a bit scary how much I agree with and how much of it reminds me of my own experience discovering albums by Marvin, Al Green, Sam Dees, Luther Ingram, Garland Green, Johnny Adams, ZZ Hill, Willie Hutch, John Edwards, Eddie Hinton, the Dells, Ashford and Simpson, Sandra Feva etc etc.

He still over-rates Paul Kelly in a way I don't and didn't over-rate Luther Ingram, but I'm guessing he gets that now.

I agree that Lamont isn't yer typical Soul Singer, but when it works it works, and I don't think his music necessarily suffers as a result of any short-comings. Moreover, I think this is mirrored in other Soul Singers more famous for writing, including George Jackson, Eddie Hinton, Frank (O) Johnson Dan Penn and Nick Ashford (as he recognises).

He suggests that Sam Dees wasn't aware of his popularity in this country until he turned up in London in 89. I'm pretty sure his Southport appearance was his first ever in the UK and his manager assured me that he was well aware that, to an admittedly small number of people, he was a God. The people who weren't at Southport thought he was brilliant at Morecambe six months later and I'm guessing this coincided with London and I'm wondering if he had a band in the capital. I remember him on Newsnight playing piano and singing a brilliant rendition of One in a Million You, a song I never really liked by Larry Graham, for whom he wrote it, but I'm guessing this was a year or two later. 

It isn't OTT on vinylism but he perhaps overstates the signigicance of the format, in that everybody who ever made a forty minute vinyls album was creating a complete work of art but everybody stopped when CDs came out and just started bringing out collections of unrelated songs. Neither position is credible and I think that period simply coincided with an historic period of creativity in music which was probably over and certainly passed its heyday before CDs took over.

[Chalky]

I've only just got round to buying part one and have to say I wish I'd got round to it earlier.  Fabulously written and put together, essential piece of writing for the collector.  Just need Part 2 now!

[Stevesilktulip]

Just come across the top 100 at the end.

I remember many years ago reading Lady Soul is the best Soul Album ever, and while I've never been able to split them, I'm surprised he had her so high. Id probably have them both - in consecutive positions - much further down the list and wouldn't have a third, but if I did, it wouldn't be YG and B. I understand him not wanting Whats Going On in pole position but wouldn't have gone Aretha. Surely he doesn't have Otis Blue in vol 2.

Paul Kelly has slipped down since Voices from the Shadows and, while I never had it on vinyls, Hooked Hogtied and Collared has been in my basket for a couple years, it's just been promoted.

A cheap Best Of is as much as I could ever be interested in by Etta James and the Don Covay is new to me so need to investigate. Not a great singer in my view (Nor Syl Johnson). 

I'd have at least 4 Al Green albums ahead of Gets Next to you - 3 of which he has - but probably only 2 in the top 100.

I used to have Sam Dees on a parr with Marvin, then second only to, then best album not by Marvin, but may now have best not by Marvin, Curtis/Impressions or Luther Ingram. Probably about eighth.

I get why he has these particular JB album so high, but most of the albums I've bought have been unheard and that's how I like it. Prior to CDs, which makes it much easier to trawl through piles and piles of albums, James was probably best heard on compilations, of which there are loads. The 3 volumes of Soul Classics were the ones for me. 

I'd probably have Dells albums but maybe not these ones and I'd definitely have Chilites albums but definitely not these ones. I'd have People get Ready as the top Impressions album (perhaps not surprisingly) with Young Mods second, My Country third with the debut fourth, and maybe all 4 in top 100.

As a blues fan, Two steps by Bobby Bland album is much over-rated by pop nerds trying to talk about Soul. Johnny Adams is a fantastic choice.

l'd probably agree with his choice of Luther Ingram though I'd have the other two masterpieces as well; possibly all top 20, but no room for Stealaway Hideaway.

Garland Green absolutely, though I'd have JR Bailey and Anthony White ahead of Lou Courtney.

While I love Ashford and Simpson, Come as you Are and Is it Still Good to You are the only totally succesful albums, neither of which are the 2 he's selected.

Sandra Feva absolutely.

John Edwards is a highly rated album, and while it's good,  there's much wrong with it and I may prefer the one on Cotillion. 

His choice of Isleys makes me think he maybe should have tried to find a way to not include Funk, though the JBs is a monster.

I don't think Phases of Reality is particularly William Bells best though I was the first person I ever heard play Man in the Streets.

Bizzarely  I don't know this particular Tyrone Davis album which shall be rectified soon, though I'll be surprised if I have it top 100.

Which brings us back to Marvin. Lets Get it On and the sixties hits are the reason it took me so long to get into him - yes I was one of those who, in 74/75/76, thought JJ was better. I love Keep Getting it On and a couple others, but the first live album has the best version of Distant Lover. The album hasn't aged well and some of it's pretty crap. I'd have Here my Dear, In Our Lifetime and I Want You, maybe as high as top 20, but I'm not sure LGIO would make the list at all.

No problems with Millie Jackson,  James Carr, Jerry Butler, Blue Magic, Linda Jones, Shirley Brown, Ike Hayes (though not that album),  Otis Clay and Walter Jackson.

Wouldn't have Doris Duke, Mitty Collier, Solomon Burke, Tops (as an album band), Gladys Knight (doing so well), (that) Donny Hathaway, Clarence Carter,  Ray Charles, Sam Cook or Ace Spectrum.

Would have GC Cameron, Lamont, Facts of Life,  Michael Henderson, ZZ Hill, Willie Hutch, Charles Jackson and some funk.

Most bizarre exclusion, which seems inexplicable and may be an oversight, though I suspect not, is Anita Baker, who, as far as I have read, is excluded entirely as a solo artist. Songstress would certainly make this list and possibly Rapture too.

Still the best book on Soul in the known galaxy, though part 2 is still battling it out with 600 CDs in my basket.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, stevesilktulip said:

Most bizarre exclusion, which seems inexplicable and may be an oversight, though I suspect not, is Anita Baker, who, as far as I have read, is excluded entirely as a solo artist. Songstress would certainly make this list and possibly Rapture too.

I'm sure Mr Lias can speak for himself but I think he excluded Anita Baker because her first recorded work came after 1982. There are six thousand albums described over two volumes so some boundaries were needed and 1983 was the first year that CDs outsold albums. I think it was the right decision to include major funk acts. 

Inevitably there are one or two omissions that are a tad surprising ie Roy Ayers  and one or two inclusions that might surprise but the scope of this work is so impressive.  It's full of insight and new knowledge that would have been lost within a short period. Two volumes that I will treasure.

[Windlesoul]

I have both of John's volumes in stock at A Nickel And A Nail if anyone needs a copy / copies.

[Johndelve]

Cheers for comments on my book, Steve. Much appreciated.

No one is going to agree on a top 100, and I wouldn’t expect yours or anyone else’s to tally with mine. Such lists  also change over time and there are quite a few changes from my Voices From Shadows top 100.

Firecrest is right about why I excluded Anita Baker, reason for her omission is spelt out in introduction..ie no solo work before 1982.

As for Roy Ayers, i deemed him on balance a jazz man; im fully aware he and plenty of others are on the dividing line between funk and jazz and if I included them all the book would have moved into the ‘over 2 kgs’ weight bracket thus putting postage price up substantially.

By the way will have copies of both books for sale in Bilbao this weekend and hoping to meet new and old friends who contribute to Soul Source.

[Stevesilktulip]

My list has probably changed since the last post which had probably changed since the first post; note my comments on Sam Dees. You are in a privileged position of being able to put out a book and the nice people at Soul source allows us to put in our two penneth. Anything of this nature is only a starting point for an exchange of ideas, discussion and discourse and I'm always pleased to add a few more to my ever growing wants list (though Mrs Silk definitely isn't).

Haven't seen the original VFTS for years which seems to be in a loft. I wonder if you have a copy of the list you could send me when I order vol 2. I know there were at least a couple on it I hadn't heard, and of course nowadays you can get virtually everything. It would be fascinating to see how your choice has changed over the years.

Forgive me but it's also worth noting you're obviously a few years older than me, and that slippage goes a long way to explain many of our differences. However, this also highlights one major difference we have which is that I absolutely believe Soul Music is an artform, which would suggest it should be timeless. Only time will tell. Applying modern cultural theory, classical music (or even jazz) does not have to be used as a model, but unfortunately, Soul Music hangs on binary oppositions of grain and something along the lines of 'if I have to explain, you wouldn't understand'.

Obviously hadn't read/ retained your 82 cut-off and I think her first two albums perhaps warrants a rethink. I was still involved in weekenders ten years later and soul fans at least, were still preoccupied with vinyls (too many still are).  But I'd have also wanted to include Angie Stone, the only Soul Artist to emerge in the last twenty years, to stand with the greats.

The funk jazz/ funk divide is a real toughy, not only because of James Brown, Isleys and Maze, but also Curtis, Marvin, Willie Hutch and countless others. I suspect you're not all that keen on funk, at least after JB, and I'll hazard a stab you're also big on Sly, but that's more or less it. 

As somebody who has gone through the ninety year history of jazz, most jazz people think jazz funk is smooth jazz is universally dreadful. I like jazz-funk (though not smooth jazz) but I tend to put it with soul/funk rather than jazz. Having made the decision (or accepted the inevitability) to include funk, Roy Ayers is probably one you should have included, though - again - I suspect it's not your thing.

Finally, didn't know you were playing in Bilbao or I'd have gone - no pressure than. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Johndelve]

Hello again, Steve...my Voices Top 100 has been posted on this site before but I will indeed send you a copy with Volume 2. 

I’m sure I am older than you (61) - I seem to be older than most people these days - and my tastes reflect - to a fair extent - the music I grew up with. You are also spot on about Sly & Family Stone, I absolutely love their music. As indeed I do funk in general , but only from the period 1967 to around 1975. Check out my entries on Dyke & Blazers, Chuck Brown & Soul Searchers, early Kool, early EWAF etc. etc. as examples. But after 1975 I thought it got very predictable and I never enjoyed it quite so much. ( Apart from the great Sharon Jones & Dap Kings who I also adored...) 

As for art, I’m still not totally convinced soul qualifies apart from some ‘deep soul’ sides, but am also of the opinion that James Brown’s music, for instance, will still retain interest and power in 100 years time so maybe it is ‘art’, after all...

Didn’t include Anita B for reasons spelled out before, but although I have always admired her talent, I’ve never been her biggest fan. I love a handful of her sides but just don’t play her music that often these days...same with Roy Ayers, actually,  the majority of his work passes me by but there are certainly some of his records I care for...as for ALL of smooth jazz, I’m with most people : I can’t stand it. ( I haven’t heard enough of Angie S to have an opinion.) 

Shame we couldn’t meet up in Bilbao, it was a cracking few days as always.

Best, John

 

 

 

[Stevesilktulip]

Hi again again.

I try to avoid Soul Source (too many Beatlemaniacs and punkrockers) so have just come across this. I'll (persuade the missus to let me) order part 2; to be honest I've been getting frustrated without it, but there's always music to buy which has to come first, though books can enhance music enormously.

I've started putting a Soul Album on my facebook page (Christine Tulip) each day and you get the odd mention.

A little slippage in Funk - perhaps the age difference - but I'd say 68-78 though I acknowledge a decline after 75. Despite maybe half a dozen essential tracks I think many of the bands who followed on from Sly improved on them. I'd have had Wild and Peaceful, All n All, 3+3 and some P at least in my top 100.  'Serious' Soul types always seem to struggle with P Funk, particularly poor old Bootsy; like Zappa, I believe it will have time on its side. 

Although I seldom listen to her these days, I think Anita's first 2 albums disprove any theory that the Soul Album disappeared once CD's outsold vinyls. As a singer I think she ranks with Aretha, Linda Jones, Betty Wright, Minnie Ripperton and Jean Carn(e), but I think the age slippage is in play here. Certainly I know many (and some would have been at Bilbao) who think she was a very big deal.

For me, although I don't care much for Roy Ayers beyond odd ones, should have been there because, unlike say Herbie Hancock and Donald Byrd, he was never a big deal in 'Real Jazz'. However, I struggle with the omission of DB so perhaps I think vocals are an issue here. I certainly think Benson should have featured because he really stopped being a Jazz Artist at all and vocally was in the scope of Stevie Wonder, Donny Hathaway, though - beyond his incredible Jazz Guitar playing, I don't care much for any of his music.

Overall I think the Jazz-Funk issue was a minefield no two people would ever agree on, but debate in itself is good.

Hopefully see you in Bilbao next year.

Steven.    

[Johndelve]

I'll certainly be there Steven, look forward to meeting you... I'll check out your facebook page, too....Best John

[Guest]

Well done to John Lias on the stunningly good review in the latest issue of Shindig magazine. The review ends ....Lias has produced another essential tome for soul’s true believers ....

 

The only five star book review in the issue.  My copy is all ready well thumbed. Pretty much essential reading I suggest.