The rise of the 'NEW' soulie and the soul revolution.

[Guest Gogs]

4 hours ago, Joey said:

Told you I was right to keep schtum, didn't I? Lol.

The Gems. Played everywhere in 72/73, played nowhere nowadays. Quality 100mph dancer. Proper Northern, and quality enough to be booted at least once, maybe even twice, before the Casino even opened its doors? 

Always in my playbox, so it still gets played.

[Ian Stacey]

On 01/05/2018 at 19:56, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

I'm completely in touch with my feminine side, another one I adore that a lot of newcomers take issue with: 

 

brilliant tune luv it 

[Kenb]

On 02/05/2018 at 17:45, shufflin said:

these are the worse ones, I was out once and a mate introduced me to this bloke at about midnight who was apparently organising a forthcoming local soul night, thought we'd get on etc, anyway the arrogant git not only asked me how long I'd been into NS he then proceeded asking me questions about specific records, labels etc, checking if I knew about the music - honestly wanted to thump him but made an excuse after 5 minutes and walked off - yes I 'passed' his questions, but what a prat

ah..... the question stuff - 'you into it then': i have quite a bit of stuff hanging on my stairs hallway walls in view of visitors (see my post in Clubs section if remotely interested), and it's always the Gas Man, Carpet Fitter, Gutter Man etc, delivery man ( god bless them all) who ask that question. They then proceed to tell me about their mate, or there Punk experience. But it does make for for a jolly 30 minutes-with me then thinking they just don't get it.

[Ian Stacey]

On 03/05/2018 at 23:58, gogs said:

Always in my playbox, so it still gets played.

because of the boots thats why it gets no plays  to many about & to lookalike.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, IAN STACEY said:

because of the boots thats why it gets no plays  to many about & to lookalike.

And that probably encapsulates quite perfectly one of the major things wrong with the scene today. The whole OVO thing. When did it start? Never used to be that way. People wanted to dance to the SOUND, not look at the bloody record. Didn't matter what label it was on. Nowadays, it's as though punters are looking at those stupid screens, and saying to themselves "I'm not dancing to that, he's cued up a boot". 

Now, if I want to dance to "I'm standing", I'll dance to the bloody thing. I won't wait and see what bloody label the DJ has it on. "Oh no, he's only got it on import". "Oh wow, he has it on a Stateside demo, I'll dance to it", "Ooh yuk, that's an OOTP boot, lets all vilify him for having the temerity to even have it in his box". It's all complete f***ing nonsense. Panders to label snobs and chin strokers, and no one else. 

Back in the day, I had a wonderful British collection. Many demo's, most stone minters. Would I take the chance of being "relieved" of it all when out DJing? Would I f**k as like. I quite happily played Boots and pressings, and guess what? Just as many people danced to, and enjoyed them.

If "This Man" doesn't get plays because there are too many boots around, then it's beyond sad in my opinion. 

Original vinyl only my arse. 

[Martin L]

its the searching for  then the playing out and moving on constantly which  defines us bud thats what we do       i love this scene and  the people in it  every part of it has a valid  part to play  sometimes when i hear a tune played out  somewhere i cant help myself i find myself stroking mi chin !!   

 

Martin L x    

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

8 hours ago, Joey said:

And that probably encapsulates quite perfectly one of the major things wrong with the scene today. The whole OVO thing. When did it start? Never used to be that way. People wanted to dance to the SOUND, not look at the bloody record. Didn't matter what label it was on. Nowadays, it's as though punters are looking at those stupid screens, and saying to themselves "I'm not dancing to that, he's cued up a boot". 

Now, if I want to dance to "I'm standing", I'll dance to the bloody thing. I won't wait and see what bloody label the DJ has it on. "Oh no, he's only got it on import". "Oh wow, he has it on a Stateside demo, I'll dance to it", "Ooh yuk, that's an OOTP boot, lets all vilify him for having the temerity to even have it in his box". It's all complete f***ing nonsense. Panders to label snobs and chin strokers, and no one else. 

Back in the day, I had a wonderful British collection. Many demo's, most stone minters. Would I take the chance of being "relieved" of it all when out DJing? Would I f**k as like. I quite happily played Boots and pressings, and guess what? Just as many people danced to, and enjoyed them.

If "This Man" doesn't get plays because there are too many boots around, then it's beyond sad in my opinion. 

Original vinyl only my arse. 

I'm reluctant to get into this side of things because of my position, but have to agree on this!

 

[Guest Gogs]

3 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

I'm reluctant to get into this side of things because of my position, but have to agree on this!

 

So your sitting on the fence lol

[Frankie Crocker]

12 hours ago, Joey said:

And that probably encapsulates quite perfectly one of the major things wrong with the scene today. The whole OVO thing. When did it start? Never used to be that way. People wanted to dance to the SOUND, not look at the bloody record. Didn't matter what label it was on. Nowadays, it's as though punters are looking at those stupid screens, and saying to themselves "I'm not dancing to that, he's cued up a boot". 

Now, if I want to dance to "I'm standing", I'll dance to the bloody thing. I won't wait and see what bloody label the DJ has it on. "Oh no, he's only got it on import". "Oh wow, he has it on a Stateside demo, I'll dance to it", "Ooh yuk, that's an OOTP boot, lets all vilify him for having the temerity to even have it in his box". It's all complete f***ing nonsense. Panders to label snobs and chin strokers, and no one else. 

Back in the day, I had a wonderful British collection. Many demo's, most stone minters. Would I take the chance of being "relieved" of it all when out DJing? Would I f**k as like. I quite happily played Boots and pressings, and guess what? Just as many people danced to, and enjoyed them.

If "This Man" doesn't get plays because there are too many boots around, then it's beyond sad in my opinion. 

Original vinyl only my arse. 

Some interesting points here Joey. On the one hand, the OVO thing has become more accentuated with rising prices being paid for genuine records selling to dedicated collector-DJ’s. On the other though, you have the arriviste DJing to a pub full of half-sloshed youngsters and authenticity of the records is of no real significance, as long as the tune is catchy. The proliferation of soul-nights has enticed newcomers into DJing and at the same time, exposed fresh ears to the sounds - in time, some of the more committed listeners travel further afield to the bigger events featuring a top DJ, keeping the stream of young blood flowing.  Many of these event-goers not surprisingly expect to hear genuine records that are worth the trouble of travelling for, especially if they have modest collections of Grapevine 45’s or OOTP boots etc.  Nothing the matter with original vinyl except there’s just not enough of it to go around.

[Geeselad]

Fair points indeed. Its a matter of context really. 

[Guest Gogs]

A friend of mine, Disco/party/wedding Dj used to carry round boxes of vinyl then a box of cd;s now it is a laptop. i have heard of this happening on the soul scene but have not witnessed it myself. is this the future? Maybe should be a new thread but seems right to ask in this one.

[The Yank]

On 01/05/2018 at 10:29, Steve S 60 said:

...and for those of you who can't get enough of it, it's now available as a rather splendid drinks coaster........

ll

The perfect thing to put your Frank Wilson coffee cup on 

[Chalky]

21 hours ago, Joey said:

And that probably encapsulates quite perfectly one of the major things wrong with the scene today. The whole OVO thing. When did it start? Never used to be that way. People wanted to dance to the SOUND, not look at the bloody record. Didn't matter what label it was on. Nowadays, it's as though punters are looking at those stupid screens, and saying to themselves "I'm not dancing to that, he's cued up a boot". 

Now, if I want to dance to "I'm standing", I'll dance to the bloody thing. I won't wait and see what bloody label the DJ has it on. "Oh no, he's only got it on import". "Oh wow, he has it on a Stateside demo, I'll dance to it", "Ooh yuk, that's an OOTP boot, lets all vilify him for having the temerity to even have it in his box". It's all complete f***ing nonsense. Panders to label snobs and chin strokers, and no one else. 

Back in the day, I had a wonderful British collection. Many demo's, most stone minters. Would I take the chance of being "relieved" of it all when out DJing? Would I f**k as like. I quite happily played Boots and pressings, and guess what? Just as many people danced to, and enjoyed them.

If "This Man" doesn't get plays because there are too many boots around, then it's beyond sad in my opinion. 

Original vinyl only my arse. 

OVO is a load of bollox I agree. It is another pointless term on a scene full of pigeon holes.  BUT if I am travelling and paying good money to get into a venue the last thing I expect is Billy bootleg deceiving the paying customer. If someone wishes to play boots then so be it but advertise the fact then those who are paying get a choice whether to support or not.

Edited May 7, 2018 by chalky

[Chalky]

3 hours ago, gogs said:

A friend of mine, Disco/party/wedding Dj used to carry round boxes of vinyl then a box of cd;s now it is a laptop. i have heard of this happening on the soul scene but have not witnessed it myself. is this the future? Maybe should be a new thread but seems right to ask in this one.

But we are ‘t attending a party or wedding where the Dj and the format are pretty much irrelevant.  

We are a scene based on the Dj and what they have to offer.  Until the Dj becomes irrelevant then the format should and will take centre stage. 

[Professorturnups]

I ran a soul night in Norwich for 33+ years, kept the whole thing going whike many people had left and done that family thing. A returnee comes one night (l was poorly so not there) and goes into one because the music was unfamiliar, demanding her money back etc (apparently her friend had paid for her to get in!) Now she is getting spots playing the boots she had in the cupboard for the last 35 years, records that were dropped because they had become stale and boring. Sorry but this to me is a bit if a wind up but the people putting her on don't seem to care because she was a face at St Ives in '76. Tragic...

[Colnago]

1 hour ago, professorturnups said:

I ran a soul night in Norwich for 33+ years, kept the whole thing going whike many people had left and done that family thing. A returnee comes one night (l was poorly so not there) and goes into one because the music was unfamiliar, demanding her money back etc (apparently her friend had paid for her to get in!) Now she is getting spots playing the boots she had in the cupboard for the last 35 years, records that were dropped because they had become stale and boring. Sorry but this to me is a bit if a wind up but the people putting her on don't seem to care because she was a face at St Ives in '76. Tragic...

It is tragic, and it’s quite common, which is even more tragic....

[Guest Spain pete]

Tradewind fair coffee anyone ?STRANGE .

5 hours ago, the yank said:

The perfect thing to put your Frank Wilson coffee cup on 

 

[Ian Stacey]

19 hours ago, Joey said:

And that probably encapsulates quite perfectly one of the major things wrong with the scene today. The whole OVO thing. When did it start? Never used to be that way. People wanted to dance to the SOUND, not look at the bloody record. Didn't matter what label it was on. Nowadays, it's as though punters are looking at those stupid screens, and saying to themselves "I'm not dancing to that, he's cued up a boot". 

Now, if I want to dance to "I'm standing", I'll dance to the bloody thing. I won't wait and see what bloody label the DJ has it on. "Oh no, he's only got it on import". "Oh wow, he has it on a Stateside demo, I'll dance to it", "Ooh yuk, that's an OOTP boot, lets all vilify him for having the temerity to even have it in his box". It's all complete f***ing nonsense. Panders to label snobs and chin strokers, and no one else. 

Back in the day, I had a wonderful British collection. Many demo's, most stone minters. Would I take the chance of being "relieved" of it all when out DJing? Would I f**k as like. I quite happily played Boots and pressings, and guess what? Just as many people danced to, and enjoyed them.

If "This Man" doesn't get plays because there are too many boots around, then it's beyond sad in my opinion. 

Original vinyl only my arse. 

Always been on original vinyl nothing has changed that is  how it is. now you cannot change the reality promoters will not employ dj s to play on boots if you set up you own soul night allnighter you can do what you like  but peeps will pull you up it on it & your just be another lad or lass to lose money if you have not got the tunes you cant play with the rest of the scene .its OVO .or nothing . soul nites maybe different but Allnighters is OVO . the scene is in good shape its not a disappearing scene at all theres more on now than ever & there iss hundreds of great originals that need more attention than the top 500 lack of confidence by dj s is the only thing stopping you hearing them . 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Some interesting points here Joey. On the one hand, the OVO thing has become more accentuated with rising prices being paid for genuine records selling to dedicated collector-DJ’s. On the other though, you have the arriviste DJing to a pub full of half-sloshed youngsters and authenticity of the records is of no real significance, as long as the tune is catchy. The proliferation of soul-nights has enticed newcomers into DJing and at the same time, exposed fresh ears to the sounds - in time, some of the more committed listeners travel further afield to the bigger events featuring a top DJ, keeping the stream of young blood flowing.  Many of these event-goers not surprisingly expect to hear genuine records that are worth the trouble of travelling for, especially if they have modest collections of Grapevine 45’s or OOTP boots etc.  Nothing the matter with original vinyl except there’s just not enough of it to go around.

I can agree with all that you say. BUT, even though I understand the whole OVO thing (after all, the basic premise really hasn't changed in fifty years, has it?), it doesn't mean I agree with it completely. If a sound isnt getting ANY plays, just because its now less rare than it was before, then that's sad in the extreme. Availability doesn't lessen the quality of any sound. Or at least, it shouldn't. I can hark back to the early days of boots, when the Soul Sounds pressings appeared. Did it stop any of those thirty being played? Nope. Same when the first real wave of pressings began appearing in record shops circa '73/74. Moses Smith, Fathers Angels, Otis Smith, Soul Twins, Luther Ingram, Lenis Guess, Jerry Williams etc. etc. etc. Suddenly, any and all could own a copy of the current dance floor monster. Didnt stop people attending soul clubs and Niters though.

What this OVO thing has done recently, is something that has been alluded to by many others. Older people returning to the scene with wads of cash buying up "rarities", and making a "name" for themselves DJing. Rarity doth not make a record good. Sure, people will travel to hear it played, just as we all did fifty or so years ago. But does it make it right? No. Not if this is just an ego-trip for a wannabe DJ.

I suppose, again as mentioned in another reply, that its also down to context. And I also agree that this could well be a very divisive issue, for a plethora of reasons. But, booting/reissuing doesn't change the sound of a tune for me. Just about every single record I've ever liked has been booted, re-issued, or put on a compilation cd. And would I attend an event where I knew that every single one of the sounds I'd hear were in my collection? Yep, you'd better believe I would. For the life of me I just cannot understand why DJs, en-masse, would decide not to play something due to its now wider availability. 

OK, its early, I havent had my brekkie, and I'm beginning to ramble. Over and out!

[Steve S 60]

6 hours ago, the yank said:

The perfect thing to put your Frank Wilson coffee cup on 

Here I am on bended knees

A bacon roll and two coffees

Douwe Egberts

 

(Other brands are available.  Advertising executives please PM me.)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, IAN STACEY said:

Always been on original vinyl nothing has changed that is  how it is. now you cannot change the reality promoters will not employ dj s to play on boots if you set up you own soul night allnighter you can do what you like  but peeps will pull you up it on it & your just be another lad or lass to lose money if you have not got the tunes you cant play with the rest of the scene .its OVO .or nothing . soul nites maybe different but Allnighters is OVO . the scene is in good shape its not a disappearing scene at all theres more on now than ever & there iss hundreds of great originals that need more attention than the top 500 lack of confidence by dj s is the only thing stopping you hearing them . 

Of course the scene has always been original vinyl. It was the only medium suitable for music back in the day. You couldn't lug around a bloody great reel to reel tape machine, could you? Every type of club had decks for records, nothing else. BUT.... it wasn't always the case that the discs being spun HAD to be on the original label. Trust me on this, but there were at least two DJs at the Casino who played plenty of re-issues, boots and pressings. I know this for a fact, as I sold the bloody things to them! Didn't clear the floor either. No-one cared, as they were TOO BUSY DANCING.  Hmmm, food for thought maybe? Boots and pressings were also played at just about every single little soul club up and down the country. It was the only way we could get to hear the tunes, and dance to them, in a midweek club.

Bottom line is that a great sound is a great sound, and will always be so. My rant re OVO was born out of a reply to my Wally Cox post. For a tune, (and a tune which was a monster one at that), to be consigned to history just because its not as rare now as it was when it was discovered in 74, is just pure nonsense. Those who perpetuate this practice have to be asked a question or two. 

As for the scene being in good shape, maybe the proliferation of events has something to do with all this OVO thing. If you have the choice of multiple venues on the same night, it MUST have an effect, surely? We didnt have that luxury back in the early 70's, so were just happy to be in a place that was playing what we wanted to hear. Therefore, the bloody label didn't matter, THE SOUND DID. And DJs not having the confidence to play stuff that has been forgotten and needs more attention? I'd say that lack of confidence isnt that much of an issue, as a great deal of them have ALL the confidence in the world, verging on a belief in themselves that even Levine never had. Plus, (and apart from a handful of old time DJs still at it), a complete lack of knowledge regarding anything that was played prior to 1976.

Bottom line, a great sound is a great sound. Enjoy it for what it is, not what label its on.

[Chalky]

2 minutes ago, Joey said:

Of course the scene has always been original vinyl. It was the only medium suitable for music back in the day. You couldn't lug around a bloody great reel to reel tape machine, could you? Every type of club had decks for records, nothing else. BUT.... it wasn't always the case that the discs being spun HAD to be on the original label. Trust me on this, but there were at least two DJs at the Casino who played plenty of re-issues, boots and pressings. I know this for a fact, as I sold the bloody things to them! Didn't clear the floor either. No-one cared, as they were TOO BUSY DANCING.  Hmmm, food for thought maybe? Boots and pressings were also played at just about every single little soul club up and down the country. It was the only way we could get to hear the tunes, and dance to them, in a midweek club.

Bottom line is that a great sound is a great sound, and will always be so. My rant re OVO was born out of a reply to my Wally Cox post. For a tune, (and a tune which was a monster one at that), to be consigned to history just because its not as rare now as it was when it was discovered in 74, is just pure nonsense. Those who perpetuate this practice have to be asked a question or two. 

As for the scene being in good shape, maybe the proliferation of events has something to do with all this OVO thing. If you have the choice of multiple venues on the same night, it MUST have an effect, surely? We didnt have that luxury back in the early 70's, so were just happy to be in a place that was playing what we wanted to hear. Therefore, the bloody label didn't matter, THE SOUND DID. And DJs not having the confidence to play stuff that has been forgotten and needs more attention? I'd say that lack of confidence isnt that much of an issue, as a great deal of them have ALL the confidence in the world, verging on a belief in themselves that even Levine never had. Plus, (and apart from a handful of old time DJs still at it), a complete lack of knowledge regarding anything that was played prior to 1976.

Bottom line, a great sound is a great sound. Enjoy it for what it is, not what label its on.

It ahs just about always been about rarity and still is.  If a record was considered common it was largely ignored.  It was always about exclusivity.

I know of records being played off acetates/emis/carvers, call them what younwish, in the 80s because the record was somrare, one only in some cases and in the hands of a collector.  He gave permission to have a copy cut.  You would never have heard it otherwise.  That isn’t the case today with most of the records in hands of Djs and rarity not the issue it was once upon a time.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, chalky said:

It ahs just about always been about rarity and still is.  If a record was considered common it was largely ignored.  It was always about exclusivity.

I know of records being played off acetates/emis/carvers, call them what younwish, in the 80s because the record was somrare, one only in some cases and in the hands of a collector.  He gave permission to have a copy cut.  You would never have heard it otherwise.  That isn’t the case today with most of the records in hands of Djs and rarity not the issue it was once upon a time.

Yes, exclusivity has always played a very large part, but only to a certain degree. In the early days, of course you'd travel to a venue to hear AND DANCE TO, rarer sounds. But, many of the sounds being played between 70 and 74 had been issued, once upon a time, in the UK. Most of us had some, or all of them, in our collections. It didn't stop them being played at venues though. Your local soul club, if you were fortunate to have one close by within travelling distance, had DJs who were no more than soulies with a decent collection, and some passion. Most of us never even got paid for it, we just did it for the love of the music. If I wanted to LISTEN to a rare tune, say Next In Line, I'd listen to my Stateside issue or demo in my bedroom. If I wanted to DANCE to it, I went to my local club or Niter, and didnt give a toss what bloody label it was on.

I've said it before, but I know there are multiple reasons for the whole OVO thing being the be all and end all nowadays, but I still firmly believe that to effectively "ban" certain sounds from playlists because they are no longer rare, is tantamount to sacrilege, and says far more about the DJs, than it does about the sounds themselves.

Back to Hoagy Lands. Tell me, if you were to attend a Wheel/Torch revival night/niter, and they played Next In Line, would you walk off the floor in disgust if it was a Laurie or OOTP boot on the deck? Or would you dance your little cotton socks off to it? Genuinely interested to hear who would do what.

And in conclusion. BBAML, I told you I should have kept bloody quiet on this thread didnt I?  

[NEILO]

56 minutes ago, Joey said:

Yes, exclusivity has always played a very large part, but only to a certain degree. In the early days, of course you'd travel to a venue to hear AND DANCE TO, rarer sounds. But, many of the sounds being played between 70 and 74 had been issued, once upon a time, in the UK. Most of us had some, or all of them, in our collections. It didn't stop them being played at venues though. Your local soul club, if you were fortunate to have one close by within travelling distance, had DJs who were no more than soulies with a decent collection, and some passion. Most of us never even got paid for it, we just did it for the love of the music. If I wanted to LISTEN to a rare tune, say Next In Line, I'd listen to my Stateside issue or demo in my bedroom. If I wanted to DANCE to it, I went to my local club or Niter, and didnt give a toss what bloody label it was on.

I've said it before, but I know there are multiple reasons for the whole OVO thing being the be all and end all nowadays, but I still firmly believe that to effectively "ban" certain sounds from playlists because they are no longer rare, is tantamount to sacrilege, and says far more about the DJs, than it does about the sounds themselves.

Back to Hoagy Lands. Tell me, if you were to attend a Wheel/Torch revival night/niter, and they played Next In Line, would you walk off the floor in disgust if it was a Laurie or OOTP boot on the deck? Or would you dance your little cotton socks off to it? Genuinely interested to hear who would do what.

And in conclusion. BBAML, I told you I should have kept bloody quiet on this thread didnt I?  

I would dance! 

ATB

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, NEILO said:

I would dance! 

ATB

Then you are indeed Sir, a man after my own tastes, and with my own values! 

Kindest regards,

Joey.

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

1 hour ago, Joey said:

And in conclusion. BBAML, I told you I should have kept bloody quiet on this thread didnt I?  

No Joey, I for one am keen to hear your views on this subject, as I'm sure everyone else is.

As long as we all stay grounded and it doesn't turn into a pub brawl, as these discussions can, I'm very happy to see the different views on this subject.

I do have quite strong views myself about this, but they come from the angle of a working musician and arranger, a totally different spin (get it?) on the subject. I've been vocal on the subject in the past both here and elsewhere and my view is firmly entrenched.

I will join in but am keen to see the differing views on it for now.

But Joey I appreciate your views and the others whatever side of the debate, as long as they are considered and well articulated. Which they are.

It is a subject within the soul scene and some people are very passionate about it, so contentious as it may be, I think discussion of it is valid and perhaps even necessary.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

No Joey, I for one am keen to hear your views on this subject, as I'm sure everyone else is.

As long as we all stay grounded and it doesn't turn into a pub brawl, as these discussions can, I'm very happy to see the different views on this subject.

I do have quite strong views myself about this, but they come from the angle of a working musician and arranger, a totally different spin (get it?) on the subject. I've been vocal on the subject in the past both here and elsewhere and my view is firmly entrenched.

I will join in but am keen to see the differing views on it for now.

But Joey I appreciate your views and the others whatever side of the debate, as long as they are considered and well articulated. Which they are.

It is a subject within the soul scene and some people are very passionate about it, so contentious as it may be, I think discussion of it is valid and perhaps even necessary.

Can't disagree with a thing you say. Been a bone of contention for decades, and will probably remain so for the foreseeable future. 

I'll add a comment here and there, and try my very best to keep it civil.

[Steveh73]

6 hours ago, professorturnups said:

I ran a soul night in Norwich for 33+ years, kept the whole thing going whike many people had left and done that family thing. A returnee comes one night (l was poorly so not there) and goes into one because the music was unfamiliar, demanding her money back etc (apparently her friend had paid for her to get in!) Now she is getting spots playing the boots she had in the cupboard for the last 35 years, records that were dropped because they had become stale and boring. Sorry but this to me is a bit if a wind up but the people putting her on don't seem to care because she was a face at St Ives in '76. Tragic...

This has been mentioned many times but this demonstrates that there are 2 northern scenes - one which has chosen to evolve and embrace new sounds and another which has chosen to stick with the tried and tested. One man's stale oldie is another man's classic memory jerker and one man's fresh, new discovery is another man's turgid obscurity!

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

11 hours ago, gogs said:

A friend of mine, Disco/party/wedding Dj used to carry round boxes of vinyl then a box of cd;s now it is a laptop. i have heard of this happening on the soul scene but have not witnessed it myself. is this the future? Maybe should be a new thread but seems right to ask in this one.

It will, imo yes. At the moment the DJs that are still around will insist on playing OVO. However two things,

1) If my YES albums were anything to go by when I was a teenager, a vinyl disc can be played so many times that eventually it wears out. Vinyl can be damaged also, a jumping copy of a major soul 45 would be heart-breaking eh? I have a few very desirable OVO oldies that I wouldn't dream of taking out, I never play them and listen to a reissue 45 rather than spin my own OV, and risk a scratch or play wear, nowadays some 45s are worth far too much to risk that.

2) Vinyl is heavy and awkward to transport, compared to CDs or even USB sticks, or laptops, without touching on any risk of loss or damage say if your car got rear ended with you stuff in the back.

The internet radio shows are already DJing from PCs and USB sticks, CDs etc, you can request the rarest of sounds and bingo, they have it and will play it, it's instant, it appears to me that a lot of internet radio DJs will play direct from YT also, and the listeners, it's a case of what they don't see don't hurt them, they get the song they want to hear, everyone's a winner!

If my lass had the chance to dance to for example, Ty Karim 'You really made it good to me' she would be delighted, if it were one of the excellent sounding Kent reissues rather than the Romark she wouldn't be put off. Not only that but I would be delighted knowing that part of the unit cost of the 45 would be going to TK's estate as a royalty, a situation with which I fully agree, and would much prefer to see than the current mess of things brought about by the OVO DJ trade.  I would appreciate enlightenment on the royalties side of OVO DJing if anyone would be so kind. I know from a performing musician's POV but not so much about DJing.

For me the skill is in knowing the good sounds to choose, a sound knowledge of the canon is to me, more important than how much money a DJ has to spend.

Not only this but these days, do many punters travel hundreds of miles to hear a tune played out to the extent of the old days? When nowadays you can listen to the big rarities anytime on YT or whatever?

Imo, OVO is having it's day now, I can't see it lasting forever.

 

[Guest Gogs]

54 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

It will, imo yes. At the moment the DJs that are still around will insist on playing OVO. However two things,

1) If my YES albums were anything to go by when I was a teenager, a vinyl disc can be played so many times that eventually it wears out. Vinyl can be damaged also, a jumping copy of a major soul 45 would be heart-breaking eh? I have a few very desirable OVO oldies that I wouldn't dream of taking out, I never play them and listen to a reissue 45 rather than spin my own OV, and risk a scratch or play wear, nowadays some 45s are worth far too much to risk that.

2) Vinyl is heavy and awkward to transport, compared to CDs or even USB sticks, or laptops, without touching on any risk of loss or damage say if your car got rear ended with you stuff in the back.

Imo, OVO is having it's day now, I can't see it lasting forever.

 

2 very good points, i think that i will have to agree with you.

[Mark S]

This is the sort of stuff that got me into this mess in the first place . Beautiful smooth soulfull dance music no daft pants no light up shoes silly hats or stupid slogans . 

By and large I agree with Joey apart from the bit about boots they have no place at all . I love original vinyl it has a provenance a tangible link to a certain point in time and for that reason it has a value not neccersarily monetary something far deeper a romantic notion I know . I think for a small  soul night legit issues are allright no one is being decieved . the rarest of sounds now are so accesable with cds and the internet that if you are looking for authenticity choose your venues wisely .

 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Mark S said:

This is the sort of stuff that got me into this mess in the first place . Beautiful smooth soulfull dance music no daft pants no light up shoes silly hats or stupid slogans . 

By and large I agree with Joey apart from the bit about boots they have no place at all . I love original vinyl it has a provenance a tangible link to a certain point in time and for that reason it has a value not neccersarily monetary something far deeper a romantic notion I know . I think for a small  soul night legit issues are allright no one is being decieved . the rarest of sounds now are so accesable with cds and the internet that if you are looking for authenticity choose your venues wisely .

 

I'll happily agree re the daft pants, shoes, and slogans etc. But some of us are now so follically challenged that a hat is pretty much "de rigeur".

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

1 minute ago, Joey said:

I'll happily agree re the daft pants, shoes, and slogans etc. But some of us are now so follically challenged that a hat is pretty much "de rigeur".

Yes you have to forgive the hats, men of a certain age etc...

I do like a nice Fedora, Panama, Trilby, Pork Pie, Paperboy or traditional 'Pigeon Fancier's'.

The only time I don't wear a hat is when I'm souling, but then for my age I do have a luxurious head of hair, as the lovely ladies are quick to point out

In our soul club, quite a few of the chaps wear a style we call 'Peaky Blinders' it's a TV show apparently set in the 1940s or thereabouts, I haven't watched it but know the style, it's a cool look.

I would happily wear one, not only that but I'm not anti the folks who dress up as soulies, I think it's all good fun and adds colour! I dress more Hipster these days but never did wear the Fred Perry and stuff. But I'm ok with attire at events, my only issue is women's shoes, I might've mentioned that before though...

[Chalky]

6 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Yes you have to forgive the hats, men of a certain age etc...

I do like a nice Fedora, Panama, Trilby, Pork Pie, Paperboy or traditional 'Pigeon Fancier's'.

The only time I don't wear a hat is when I'm souling, but then for my age I do have a luxurious head of hair, as the lovely ladies are quick to point out

In our soul club, quite a few of the chaps wear a style we call 'Peaky Blinders' it's a TV show apparently set in the 1940s or thereabouts, I haven't watched it but know the style, it's a cool look.

I would happily wear one, not only that but I'm not anti the folks who dress up as soulies, I think it's all good fun and adds colour! I dress more Hipster these days but never did wear the Fred Perry and stuff. But I'm ok with attire at events, my only issue is women's shoes, I might've mentioned that before though...

The Peaky Blinders style flat cap is known as The Baker’s Boy.  

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, chalky said:

The Peaky Blinders style flat cap is known as The Baker’s Boy.  

Got an M&S one from my daughter at Xmas. Very stylish. Wear it most days. Nice and warm for us up here in the frozen north. Still prefer my black trilby or diamond crown pork pie though for evenings. 🤠

[John Hart]

Baby Boys OVO Logistics Argument: 

As a  massive motown collector and regular Local Dj ,Iuse USb Stick /laptop in Spain . Doing a gig in Portugal ,not so local, Aflight with Ryan air and 500 plus singles and LPs, or drive in my guzzling 4by4 800 Miles round trip? Iknow the punters at the portugese gig would not know or care if vinyl is used . All of the other DJs travel from UK with enough discs for a one hour spot,because of Logistics of transporting those heavy awkward bits of ancient plastic across the globe {What after Brexit}. 

[Chalky]

To say vinyl has had its day is just plain ridiculous.  Deman has never been so high and the same for the prices.   There has never been so many events and certainly never been so many Djs. Vinyl is here for some time yet.  All events use and highlight tne Dj to promote that event.  A Dj is booked for what he has to offer, real or not, yes some are you scratch my back etc. It is a scene that revolves (no pun intended) around a piece of vinyl, not a laptop or mp3  

Once upon a time the Djs weren’t named as the music was first and foremost, not anymore.  Until that changes and the names become secondary or irrelevant then vinyl will remain. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Yes you have to forgive the hats, men of a certain age etc...

I do like a nice Fedora, Panama, Trilby, Pork Pie, Paperboy or traditional 'Pigeon Fancier's'.

The only time I don't wear a hat is when I'm souling, but then for my age I do have a luxurious head of hair, as the lovely ladies are quick to point out

In our soul club, quite a few of the chaps wear a style we call 'Peaky Blinders' it's a TV show apparently set in the 1940s or thereabouts, I haven't watched it but know the style, it's a cool look.

I would happily wear one, not only that but I'm not anti the folks who dress up as soulies, I think it's all good fun and adds colour! I dress more Hipster these days but never did wear the Fred Perry and stuff. But I'm ok with attire at events, my only issue is women's shoes, I might've mentioned that before though...

I have several hats. Never seen without one now, since I started shaving my head when the hairy stuff began to thin out too much. The Peaky Blinders type Newsboy and baker boy hats are my usual daywear.  The classical fedora can be a tad too dramatic for everyday wear now, but a good quality trilby never looks out of place. Pork pies are the same, especially a well made diamond crown one. Depends on HOW you wear them, not where or when. I do draw the line at baseball caps though. An American abomination, which should really only be seen on Yanks, and children. I always wore a beret back in the 70's. Known for it in certain circles apparently! Basically, hats make anyone look better. You just have to wear one with confidence. Oh, and women should also wear them more often.

Im not too fussed by the dresser uppers. Some look ridiculous, others look awesome. Their choice, and as long as they aren't hurting me I'll defend their ability to make their choice as long as I breathe. 

Stilleto heels? Now you're talking!

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

16 minutes ago, chalky said:

The Peaky Blinders style flat cap is known as The Baker’s Boy.  

Excellent, yes they wear that along with the Waiscut and a suit jacket with Pegs trousers, usually colour co-ordinated like a three piece suit.

Very Hip style!

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

8 minutes ago, chalky said:

To say vinyl has had its day is just plain ridiculous.  Deman has never been so high and the same for the prices.   There has never been so many events and certainly never been so many Djs. Vinyl is here for some time yet.  All events use and highlight tne Dj to promote that event.  A Dj is booked for what he has to offer, real or not, yes some are you scratch my back etc. It is a scene that revolves (no pun intended) around a piece of vinyl, not a laptop or mp3  

Once upon a time the Djs weren’t named as the music was first and foremost, not anymore.  Until that changes and the names become secondary or irrelevant then vinyl will remain. 

I agree, in case of confusion, I was saying that OVO is having it's time now, not has had it's time, it's time IS now.

Realise you mightn't have been specifically replying to my post but just in case.

[Mark S]

I prefer a nice comfy pair of court shoes and a facinater but only on a Tuesday 

[Mark Bicknell]

My records are real not sure about the hat lol

[Supercorsa]

I'e read this entire thread, but can someone explain it to me please, because I haven' got a clue!?

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

9 minutes ago, Supercorsa said:

I'e read this entire thread, but can someone explain it to me please, because I haven' got a clue!?

Basically a bunch of numpties having a conversation, the subject material has varied somewhat during the discussion, make what you want of it and add to it, the gist is about the soul scene in the 21st C... Whatever that entails! 

OVO might have had a mention...

Just have fun with it, we're on men's hats and fashions now and trying to steer clear of ladies shoes...

[Guest Shufflin]

Mixed thoughts on this one

Pay to go to decent niter, expect to hear OVO, cause it just feels authentic, quite exciting to know you are listening to genuinely rare/in demand/never heard before sounds ( that you def. won’t hear down the local soul night)

Then again, don’t really want genuinely rare records getting ruined through over play and lost to future generations, if I knew DJ X had Mello Souls for instance, I’d be fine listening to said DJ play a white label of it rather than knacker it

imo OVO will continue simply ‘cos of the DJ ‘arms race’ to dig up sounds that haven’t already been played before/to death, haven’t been booted? Changing tastes, whatever,  plus new releases which get plays - OVO is here to stay I reckon

Not a fan of rich guys buying up rarest records at silly prices  and becoming instant rare soul DJ – then again none of my business is it

Flat caps and fred perry – been wearing em for many years regardless of the scene, fred perry make high quality clothes that last, wouldn't dance in a cap though (literally be a hot head)

Think some of the more extreme dressing up looks silly, not too bothered though

mildly irritated  by people who can’t dance in their own space (new soulies?) and need to bounce all over the dance floor (some comedy examples of this on Jud’s YT channel)

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Supercorsa said:

I'e read this entire thread, but can someone explain it to me please, because I haven' got a clue!?

At first I thought I understood what it was about. Then I thought again, and realised I didn't. Then I thought I did again. Safe to say that a few tangents have been identified, and wandered along. Been a bit of a laugh though!

[Steve S 60]

So to sum up the thread, we've got DJs wearing flat caps and stilettos playing "Tie Me Kangaroo Down" on original vinyl.

[Mark S]

Plenty of thread drift yet methinks .

[Guest Spain pete]

20 minutes ago, Steve S 60 said:

So to sum up the thread, we've got DJs wearing flat caps and stilettos playing "Tie Me Kangaroo Down" on original vinyl.

Is the " tie me kangaroo down " a issue or demo? 

[Ian Stacey]

8 hours ago, Joey said:

Yes, exclusivity has always played a very large part, but only to a certain degree. In the early days, of course you'd travel to a venue to hear AND DANCE TO, rarer sounds. But, many of the sounds being played between 70 and 74 had been issued, once upon a time, in the UK. Most of us had some, or all of them, in our collections. It didn't stop them being played at venues though. Your local soul club, if you were fortunate to have one close by within travelling distance, had DJs who were no more than soulies with a decent collection, and some passion. Most of us never even got paid for it, we just did it for the love of the music. If I wanted to LISTEN to a rare tune, say Next In Line, I'd listen to my Stateside issue or demo in my bedroom. If I wanted to DANCE to it, I went to my local club or Niter, and didnt give a toss what bloody label it was on.

I've said it before, but I know there are multiple reasons for the whole OVO thing being the be all and end all nowadays, but I still firmly believe that to effectively "ban" certain sounds from playlists because they are no longer rare, is tantamount to sacrilege, and says far more about the DJs, than it does about the sounds themselves.

Back to Hoagy Lands. Tell me, if you were to attend a Wheel/Torch revival night/niter, and they played Next In Line, would you walk off the floor in disgust if it was a Laurie or OOTP boot on the deck? Or would you dance your little cotton socks off to it? Genuinely interested to hear who would do what.

And in conclusion. BBAML, I told you I should have kept bloody quiet on this thread didnt I?  

well in your day that might of been the case but since my generation 79 /80  we do care so we did go out of our way to buy originals  & listen to a more diverse records Stafford Leicester  Peterborough  all played on original vinyl  or acetates if rare me & others constantly looked at the records being played there was less of;not allowed behind the decks rule;& where happy to let us see what was being played since 1998 every single rare tune has been pressed out by different company's some with permission some not .because of this proliferation .of tunes on vinyl the soul scene became a healthy & vibrant .But we are not teenagers anymore & it does not wash with us when a big dj of old comes & thinks he can play on these NEW records he can not & many have been caught out trying this con on  saying things like (punters dont know ) we im am not a punter & truly still refer to peeps as brothers & sisters  the old guard did not give a shit well my generation does & OVO  is what we expect British or USA or Canadian or dutch ect but an original not a £5 pressing from outa sight  that not what the scene is about now . thats the point i was trying to get across .back in 74/5 there was not the communication we have now nor the amount of records that  are available to get fairly easily compared to then i only have  a few rare records because i went to the states in the early eighties & searched for them now you can just about get anything on original so why buy bootlegs ? & why defend dj s that do this ?