Guest Shufflin Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 paid five quid for a new soul release in 2015, now going for hundreds of pounds, it's just the way it is with no brake on the price train really JM said in one of his recent auctions (forget the record) that it's a truly international thing now, it's not limited to UK (or even EU) interest
Thecivilservice Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 On 11/03/2018 at 23:05, soulatthedale said: You can include all of the above reasons for the ridiculous prices but the one main reason in my opinion is greed by certain sellers and dealers, many set their prices by thinking of a number, then double it and add an extra fee quid on. I'm no mathematician but I daresay most records have increased in price over the last 20/25 yrs at a rate massively higher than inflation, and if I gullible buyer forks out, then that's the going rate. Having said all that, we've all paid way over the odds for certain records, it's one of the symptoms of desperation! On 11/03/2018 at 23:05, soulatthedale said: You can include all of the above reasons for the ridiculous prices but the one main reason in my opinion is greed by certain sellers and dealers, many set their prices by thinking of a number, then double it and add an extra fee quid on. I'm no mathematician but I daresay most records have increased in price over the last 20/25 yrs at a rate massively higher than inflation, and if I gullible buyer forks out, then that's the going rate. Having said all that, we've all paid way over the odds for certain records, it's one of the symptoms of desperation! Why is it greedy to get the maximum profit you can for something you're selling? Only one thing drives prices - supply and demand.
Guest Soulatthedale Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 11 hours ago, thecivilservice said: Why is it greedy to get the maximum profit you can for something you're selling? Only one thing drives prices - supply and demand. Yes, that old chestnut supply and demand. Take a look at the e bay comedy sale of the day thread, not only many originals way over priced but bootlegs selling for anything from £100 upwards. If thats 'supply and demand' why bother having a thread about it? As far as I'm concerned it's greedy sellers making the most of taking money from buyers who either have more money than sense or are just oblivious to reality. I've nothing against anyone making money from selling records especially if it's their living, what I find unpalatable is pure greed.
Soulboyrecords Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 This is why ... the below is just this Saturday's list of events - and there are likely double this amount they are just not listed on SSource. Equals there are now 1000's of wannabe DJs to feed all these events who as others have said have paid off the mortgage and got rid of the kids etc and have cash burning a hole in their pocket. 56 events on one Saturday! So assuming there are another 44 not listed on SSource, to keep the maths simple, and 4 DJs per event that's 400 DJs ! I bet 10 years ago the lists of event would have been nearer 5, it's just supply and demand, don't blame greedy dealers - if someone puts a fluffy falana on ebay and some muppet bids it up to £750 that's not the dealers fault (happened last week) Saturday MARCH 31, 2018 MAR30 SEATON SOUL WEEKEND SEATON FRI 30 MAR 2018 - SUN 01 APR 2018WEEKENDERS MAR31 SOUL NOT DOLE STOCKHOLM DJ'S WEEKENDER 1 DONCASTER SAT 31 MAR 2018 - SUN 01 APR 2018WEEKENDERS MAR31 NEW CENTURY SOUL @ BURY TOWN HALL HOT! 71 SAT 31 MAR 2018ALLNIGHTERS MAR31 ### PARKLANDS NORTHERN SOUL CLUB ### DONCASTER SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 NEW TRINITY SOUL CLUB 3 NEWCASTLE UNDER LYME SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 SOUL AND MOTOWN NIGHT KIDSGROVE STOKE-ON-TRENT SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 5TH SAT SOUL STATION WARRINGTON STATION ROAD SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 LISKEARD RADIO NORTHERN SOUL NIGHT LISKEARD SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 BISHOP AUCKLAND RUGBY CLUB 1 BISHOP AUCKLAND SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 ECCLES NORTHERN SOUL AND MOTOWN (M30 7AY) MANCHESTER SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 NORTHERN SOUL & MOTOWN - NORTH DEVON BRAUNTON SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 ASHBY DE LA SOUL 2 ASHBY-DE-LA-ZOUCH SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 SOUL GALORE @ REWIND - LEEK, STAFFORDSHIRE LEEK SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 WHOLE LOTTA SOUL AT THE FED 5 NOTTINGHAM SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 THE SHAKEUP CLAPHAM SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 SOUL & MOTOWN NIGHT AT TOWCESTER FOOTBALL CLUB CANCELLED SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 SOUNDS OF SOUL HEMEL HEMPSTEAD HEMEL HEMPSTEAD SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 MOJO SOUL CLUB FIVE STAR COMMUNITY CENTRE 1 DARLASTON SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 SOUL IN HAWORTH - AT THE PARKSIDE 2 HAWORTH SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 KIRKBY SOUL NOTTINGHAM SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 STAFFORD SOUL SESSIONS @ THE RANGERS MARCH 2018 STAFFORD SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 COMPETITION AIN'T NOTHIN' - GUEST DJ - STEVE HAY- PRESTWICH 2 MANCHESTER SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 "ON THE SOUL SIDE" SOUL CLUB SCARBOROUGH SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 SIX BY SIX BLACKPOOL SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 NORTHERN SOUL & MOTOWN SOUTH WINGFIELD NR MATLOCK SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 STEWARTBY NR BEDFORD STEWARTBY, NEAR BEDFORD SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 ROTHERHAM NORTHERN SOUL ROUNDWOOD SPORTS & SOCIAL GOLF CLUB 3 ROTHERHAM SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 A NIGHT OF RYHTHM & SOUL OSWESTRY SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 MOJO R & B HULL HULL SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 HAROLD CLUB BRADFORD 2 BRADFORD SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 1600 PEOPLE 12 DJS 3 ROOMS ONE VENUE (KING POWER STADIUM) 4 LEICESTER SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 THE GAS CLUB SHEFFIELD NEW VENUE HOT! 11 SHEFFIELD SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 ACCRINGTON SOUL CLUB 5 SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 DERBY SOUL & GUESTS @ THE VENUE HOT! 8 47-49 ABBEY STREET SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 BEDFORD - SOUL & MOTOWN AT THE FLOWER POT SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 CARL PIPER,KINGSWAY HALL,ITS WHERE ITS AT,FOREST TOWN HOT! 7 SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 BRIDGWATER SOUL CLUB! SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 GREENHILL BOWLING CLUB. 2 BURNLEY SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 NORTHERN SOUL & MOTOWN NIGHT NORTHANTS SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 THAT BEAT N RHYTHM SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 SOUL CELLAR DISCO NIGHT WEYMOUTH SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 BRADSOUL ROADSHOW DARWEN SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 CHESHIRE SOUL CLUB NORTHWICH CHESHIRE SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 IT'S SOULTIME CARLISLE SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 MANSFIELD CIVIC QUARTER SOUL NIGHT MANSFIELD SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 AFTERNOON OF NORTHERN SOUL & SKA WITH POP-UP SOUL SCARBOROUGH SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 STEWARTBY NEAR BEDFORD STEWARTBY SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 HOPETOWN W.M.C. - NORMANTON. WEST YORKSHIRE. 4 NORMANTON SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 SOUL NOT DOLE STOCKHOLM DJ'S WEEKEND DONCASTER SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 SOUL TRAIN LIVE AT MAVERICS BAR BURNLEY BURNLEY SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 5TH SAT SOUL STATION WARRINGTON STATION ROAD SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 RAINHILL SOULIES EASTER EVENT ST HELENS SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 GORNAL SOUL CLUB LOWER GORNAL SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 FULL CIRCLE RHYTHM AND SOUL CLUB EDINBURGH SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 NORTHERN SOUL @ THE BUNGALOW CLUB STOCKPORT SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 SWEET SOUL MUSIC AT THE CROWS NEST SWANAGE SWANAGE SAT 31 MAR 2018SOUL NIGHTS MAR31 NORTHERN & MOTOWN ALLDAYERS BENIDORM SAT 31 MAR 2018ALLDAYERS MAR31 WEAVERS RANDOM SUMMER SOUL SESSION KIDDERMINSTER SAT 31 MAR 2018ALLDAYERS MAR31 LET'S DANCE SOME MO' SOUL ALL DAYER 4 CHESTER SAT 31 MAR 2018ALLDAYERS MAR31 STRATFORD UPON AVON EASTER ALL-DAYER 1 STRATFORD UPON AVON SAT 31 MAR 2018ALLDAYERS MAR31 CHARITY NORTHERN SOUL ALLDAYER 1 BURSCOUGH SAT 31 MAR 2018ALLDAYERS MAR31 CHARITYSOUL WITH SOUL-CITY SAT 31 MAR 2018ALLDAYERS MAR31 SHEFFIELD'S MAGGIE MAYS SOUL BAR & EVENT LOUNGE SHEFFIELD SAT 31 MAR 2018ALLDAYERS MAR31 CLEETHORPES BEACHCOMBER ( CHARITYSOUL.) 4 CLEETHORPES SAT 31 MAR 2018ALLDAYERS MAR31 THE NORTHERN LINE 1 NOTTINGHAM SAT 31 MAR 2018LIVE EVENTS MAR31 GENO WASHINGTON & THE RAM JAM BAND 2 MANCHESTER
Amsterdam Russ Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) I think one of the big factors driving up prices has been the explosion over the last few years of local soul events. Once upon a time promoters would be competing at a national level. Nowadays you can have any number of events taking place on the same weekend in the same town - and they're all fighting for the same punters in the main. The huge rise in the number of local events means there are more DJs than at any time in the history of the scene. The pressure to have the latest tune, the revived oldie or whatever, has to be immense. If DJ Tom, Dick and Harry are playing the latest "in tunes" at their local nights and you don't have them, then you might be inclined to make sure you've got a copy in your box at any price if you don't want to lose face and you think having such tunes will improve your credibility and status as a DJ. Competition ain't nothing? I don't think so. Instead I think competition is definitely a major factor in prices soaring into the higher echelons of stupidity. <Was typing this at the same time Soulboyrecords was posting the above> Edited March 27, 2018 by Russell Gilbert 3
Dylan Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, soulatthedale said: Yes, that old chestnut supply and demand. Take a look at the e bay comedy sale of the day thread, not only many originals way over priced but bootlegs selling for anything from £100 upwards. If thats 'supply and demand' why bother having a thread about it? As far as I'm concerned it's greedy sellers making the most of taking money from buyers who either have more money than sense or are just oblivious to reality. I've nothing against anyone making money from selling records especially if it's their living, what I find unpalatable is pure greed. Yes i agree. I'm not convinced at all by this supply and demand arguement. Edited March 27, 2018 by dylan
Soulcarp Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, soulatthedale said: Yes, that old chestnut supply and demand. Take a look at the e bay comedy sale of the day thread, not only many originals way over priced but bootlegs selling for anything from £100 upwards. If thats 'supply and demand' why bother having a thread about it? As far as I'm concerned it's greedy sellers making the most of taking money from buyers who either have more money than sense or are just oblivious to reality. I've nothing against anyone making money from selling records especially if it's their living, what I find unpalatable is pure greed. So you’re saying you wouldn’t do it ? 1
Andybellwood Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Russell Gilbert said: I think one of the big factors driving up prices has been the explosion over the last few years of local soul events. Once upon a time promoters would be competing at a national level. Nowadays you can have any number of events taking place on the same weekend in the same town - and they're all fighting for the same punters in the main. The huge rise in the number of local events means there are more DJs than at any time in the history of the scene. The pressure to have the latest tune, the revived oldie or whatever, has to be immense. If DJ Tom, Dick and Harry are playing the latest "in tunes" at their local nights and you don't have them, then you might be inclined to make sure you've got a copy in your box at any price if you don't want to lose face and you think having such tunes will improve your credibility and status as a DJ. Competition ain't nothing? I don't think so. Instead I think competition is definitely a major factor in prices soaring into the higher echelons of stupidity. <Was typing this at the same time Soulboyrecords was posting the above> Yes . Too many egotistical wanna be djs often doubling up with being new/recent event promoters needing a stock of oldies to satisfy the mainstream.
Guest Soulatthedale Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 8 hours ago, soulcarp said: So you’re saying you wouldn’t do it ? I wouldnt buy a bootleg, whatever the price. As for originals, id pay what i thought was a sensible price that i could reasonably afford at the time. I sold most of my collection several years ago but it soon dawned on me how much they were a part of my life, so as a result of that im now trying to build it up again, and wouldnt consider selling anything, even if was was offered the kind of ludicrous amount of money being bandied at present. Would you?
Popular Post Zed1 Posted March 28, 2018 Popular Post Posted March 28, 2018 Seen lots of posts from buyers complaining about high prices. Interestingly though I've never seen a seller post yet saying 'Just sold one of my collection on ebay and because it made way over what I thought it was worth I've given some of the money back'...... cant think why?. 4
Russ Vickers Posted March 28, 2018 Posted March 28, 2018 On 26 March 2018 at 22:38, colouredman said: It’s simple: It’s called Supply and Demand! It’s the oldest transaction equation known to man isn’t it; no surprise there. A couple of things maybe worth mentioning here: 1. For the ‘inflated price’ commentators........Does anyone here ever complain when they sell that (now) rare record they bought in the 70’s (for 70’s prices!) for today’s market or (inflated)value? Do they agree to settle for a much lesser amount than market value so as not to be ‘greedy’???No they dont; they take the cash, pocket it, and are thankful they were around to buy records when they were cheaper and more available. 2. An average semi in most areas of the country, other than London was no more than £3000 to £10,000 in early to mid 70’s; is it now??? 3. If you think record prices are inflated, do lots of research and planning, take many 1000’s of dollars and go try find em yourself. I’ll bet you your current mortgage you’ll come back with money and almost no credible records. 4. Oh and when you’re on that trip, think of the most bog standard cheapie northern record (rescue me, ric tic issues etc etc) and try find one. Go into oldies shop after oldies shop or record shows and try n find one. When you come back with your tail between your legs and no records to show off to your mates, believe me, you’ll have a whole different perspective on rarity and prices. 5. Dealers can only get what the market will pay. Don’t people understand that yet, after all these years? 6. A dealer only got the price wrong if he DIDNT sell it!!! If he did sell it, like it or not, that’s the price it can potentially fetch, and therefore he’s not greedy; he’s just a good businessman. How many major record dealers in UK went out of business in last 20 years coz the market wouldn’t put up with their ‘greedy’ ‘high’ prices?? None!! 7. Quite simply; the prices are rocketing coz more people want the records than there are copies around. Even now in 2018, there are people still chasing Epitome of Sound, Glories, Frank Beverley, Moses Smith etc etc. These records are not turning up regularly in quantity anymore, so why would prices not be high? They’re great records, and (relatively) harder to find in USA now, so why wouldn’t prices be high? 8. Also trends change and move. In the mid 70’s the only record anyone wanted on Groove City was Sister Lee, which explains why you could buy the Professionals for £15! No one was bothered about it; it probably wasn’t much less rare than it is now but there was NO DEMAND!! That’s the name of the game. Absolutely.....if you wanna stay in the game, you dig, dig, dig, then dig some more, its pretty much the same as its always been, one way or another.... 1
Steve G Posted March 28, 2018 Posted March 28, 2018 On 26/03/2018 at 20:38, colouredman said: It’s simple: It’s called Supply and Demand! It’s the oldest transaction equation known to man isn’t it; no surprise there. A couple of things maybe worth mentioning here: 1. For the ‘inflated price’ commentators........Does anyone here ever complain when they sell that (now) rare record they bought in the 70’s (for 70’s prices!) for today’s market or (inflated)value? Do they agree to settle for a much lesser amount than market value so as not to be ‘greedy’???No they dont; they take the cash, pocket it, and are thankful they were around to buy records when they were cheaper and more available. 2. An average semi in most areas of the country, other than London was no more than £3000 to £10,000 in early to mid 70’s; is it now??? 3. If you think record prices are inflated, do lots of research and planning, take many 1000’s of dollars and go try find em yourself. I’ll bet you your current mortgage you’ll come back with money and almost no credible records. 4. Oh and when you’re on that trip, think of the most bog standard cheapie northern record (rescue me, ric tic issues etc etc) and try find one. Go into oldies shop after oldies shop or record shows and try n find one. When you come back with your tail between your legs and no records to show off to your mates, believe me, you’ll have a whole different perspective on rarity and prices. 5. Dealers can only get what the market will pay. Don’t people understand that yet, after all these years? 6. A dealer only got the price wrong if he DIDNT sell it!!! If he did sell it, like it or not, that’s the price it can potentially fetch, and therefore he’s not greedy; he’s just a good businessman. How many major record dealers in UK went out of business in last 20 years coz the market wouldn’t put up with their ‘greedy’ ‘high’ prices?? None!! 7. Quite simply; the prices are rocketing coz more people want the records than there are copies around. Even now in 2018, there are people still chasing Epitome of Sound, Glories, Frank Beverley, Moses Smith etc etc. These records are not turning up regularly in quantity anymore, so why would prices not be high? They’re great records, and (relatively) harder to find in USA now, so why wouldn’t prices be high? 8. Also trends change and move. In the mid 70’s the only record anyone wanted on Groove City was Sister Lee, which explains why you could buy the Professionals for £15! No one was bothered about it; it probably wasn’t much less rare than it is now but there was NO DEMAND!! That’s the name of the game. This is one of the best posts Ive ever read on here.
Popular Post Harrogatesoul Posted March 29, 2018 Popular Post Posted March 29, 2018 Running with the supply and demand point - Don't forget the upsurge and changing collecting trends in collecting of funk / deep soul / ballads / sweet / lowrider et al over the years or currently. The times I've wanted or bid for a deep/ballad cut that just happened to be on the flip of a northern or funk 45 resulting in rocketing in price. There's lots of folk chasing certain records all over the world now for different sides. It isn't just northern and Dj's. Us armchair collectors are suffering too! All in all here's to a healthy world wide collecting scene of this great music we all love. And long may it continue. Prices will fluctuate , demand will rise and fall. Bootlegs will continue and so will the 'at any cost I want that 45' collector. Christ, the art world is still being stung with fakes and achieving record breaking prices for originals. Sound familiar? And we're only babies compared to that world! 5
Geeselad Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 4 hours ago, harrogatesoul said: Running with the supply and demand point - Don't forget the upsurge and changing collecting trends in collecting of funk / deep soul / ballads / sweet / lowrider et al over the years or currently. The times I've wanted or bid for a deep/ballad cut that just happened to be on the flip of a northern or funk 45 resulting in rocketing in price. There's lots of folk chasing certain records all over the world now for different sides. It isn't just northern and Dj's. Us armchair collectors are suffering too! All in all here's to a healthy world wide collecting scene of this great music we all love. And long may it continue. Prices will fluctuate , demand will rise and fall. Bootlegs will continue and so will the 'at any cost I want that 45' collector. Christ, the art world is still being stung with fakes and achieving record breaking prices for originals. Sound familiar? And we're only babies compared to that world! Thankfully the record collecting world is not based on nearly as much bulls thither as the art world
Weingarden Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 From a U.S. perspective...there are at least 20 times as many people over here chasing the same records as there were 20 years ago. How could prices not skyrocket? 1
Dylan Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 35 minutes ago, weingarden said: From a U.S. perspective...there are at least 20 times as many people over here chasing the same records as there were 20 years ago. How could prices not skyrocket? Are the classic northern soul sides popular with these collectors matt ?
Popular Post Robbk Posted March 31, 2018 Popular Post Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, dylan said: Are the classic northern soul sides popular with these collectors matt ? Yes, but on the individual Soul fan's taste - not given the prestige and nostalgic value of having danced to it at clubs many years ago. There are American Soul fans buying US 1960s Soul music of all different music styles and speeds/tempos. Their connections to that music are different, so different records will have different values to them for different reasons. But that doesn't mean they love them any less. Some of us have been buying them since they were released, and some, even before they were released. I was buying Black American music on US and Canadian labels from almost the beginning of the 1950s. I didn't stop buying it when they started calling it "Soul music". I like many of the classic NS club hits very much, am ambivalent about many others, dislike a fair amount, and HATE some, just like my taste goes with ALL music. I like music more for it's melody, singing quality, sound of the instruments and songwriting structure more than its tempo, or beat. THAT's where my taste differs from the classic NS criteria (and, thus, typical NS taste). 4
Dylan Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 1 minute ago, RobbK said: Yes, but on the individual Soul fan's taste - not given the prestige and nostalgic value of having danced to it at clubs many years ago. There are American Soul fans buying US 1960s Soul music of all different music styles and speeds/tempos. Their connections to that music are different, so different records will have different values to them for different reasons. But that doesn't mean they love them any less. Some of us have been buying them since they were released, and some, even before they were released. I was buying Black American music on US and Canadian labels from almost the beginning of the 1950s. I didn't stop buying it when they started calling it "Soul music". I like many of the classic NS club hits very much, am ambivalent about many others, dislike a fair amount, and HATE some, just like my taste goes with ALL music. I like music more for it's melody, singing quality, sound of the instruments and songwriting structure more than its tempo, or beat. THAT's where my taste differs from the classic NS criteria (and, thus, typical NS taste). Thanks rob. judging the music on its merits as quality soul music irrespective of weather it is a classic northern soul scene record and regardless of tempo seems like the best way to go. some big money highly regarded records leave me cold and I don’t hear the quality. But others I fully understand the admiration and reputation. the real cream will rise to the top. 2
Bunderthollox Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 On 11/03/2018 at 17:27, AndyKempster said: Are they getting rarer? Do people have more money to spend? Are sellers just getting greedier? Are buyers getting more gullible? Or has Brexit got something to do with it? All the above and a touch of plain silliness -in many cases-cheaper as well-one dealer contacted me last month on basis of me buying off him 6 months ago example record X was £40 on his lists yet I’ve seen two genuine copies of it go for £4-6 recently on EBay-do the math—people are also buying a lot of cheaper records on EBay far above the price (2 sold recently 4 times discogs sale price) so the post ticks all boxes. Seen some bargains about though it has to be said
Winsford Soul Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 Don't know if I should post this here or in comedy sale of the day. Broadway's. You just don't know £150. C,Mon. That's a price that's more than sky rocketed. That's a fcuking joke it's a £40 record Steve 3
Colnago Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 Re “records getting rarer” my problem is if there is say 1000 copies of Jesse James “love affair “ kicking about in collections etc , to me it’s not rarer but yes there is less on the market but my take is that the genuinely “rare” records are just that , genuinely rare . So sounds like jj aren’t getting rarer as in they are becoming like white 🦏, just my take on it , and yes £150 for broadways is just another typical example !! 1
Dylan Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Colnago said: Re “records getting rarer” my problem is if there is say 1000 copies of Jesse James “love affair “ kicking about in collections etc , to me it’s not rarer but yes there is less on the market but my take is that the genuinely “rare” records are just that , genuinely rare . So sounds like jj aren’t getting rarer as in they are becoming like white 🦏, just my take on it , and yes £150 for broadways is just another typical example !! If some really rare records are not being played by dj's then the price may stay relatively cheap and make the records affordable as far less people will be chasing them. Maybe not cheap but something where you can justify a higher price due to rarity. 2
Colnago Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, dylan said: If some really rare records are not being played by dj's then the price may stay relatively cheap and make the records affordable as far less people will be chasing them. Maybe not cheap but something where you can justify a higher price due to rarity. Of course yes , then the old supply and demand scenario kicks in
Dylan Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Colnago said: Of course yes , then the old supply and demand scenario kicks in Yes it does. Edited March 31, 2018 by dylan
Popular Post Frankie Crocker Posted April 1, 2018 Popular Post Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) Don’t forget the act of ‘price matching’ This is where a record on a major dealers list is overvalued - a collector sees this and prices their copy identically. Someone else notices this and marks their copy for sale at a similar price so the higher price becomes established. The supermarket chains do this all the time. Once upon a time, it was illegal for their employees to be involved in cartel activity. Now they only need to look up each others’ prices online to match them. This is one of the main reasons our food bills just go up and up. Edited April 1, 2018 by FRANKIE CROCKER typo 4
Ncfc Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 On 3/28/2018 at 20:44, Steve G said: This is one of the best posts Ive ever read on here. I'll go with that too.
Ian Dewhirst Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 On 3/16/2018 at 11:27, spacehopper said: In contrast to that,a nighter like soulfunktion is full of djs/collectors (in the crowd and on the dancefloor) who are all looking for something different and despite some big money but genuine rarities being played there are also loads of £20/50 pound records being played by shall we say lesser known djs on a budget,maybe if this type of crowd were bigger there would be more of these nights and more demand for a wider selection of cheaper tunes instead of the same race to have what every other dj has which as has been said is a bigger demand for a smaller supply dean It may get to that soon. I've done a lot of Oldies type gigs over the last few years but I'm collecting anything but the big ticket oldies these days. I'm finding much better stuff in the cheaper categories anyway. I want the stuff that people aren't buying whilst it's still relatively affordable. I'm now looking for exactly the above type of gigs - I want one per week at least! :). There need to be more of 'em! Ian D 1
Ian Dewhirst Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 2 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said: Don’t forget the act of ‘price matching’ This is where a record on a major dealers list is overvalued - a collector sees this and prices their copy identically. Someone else notices this and marks their copy for sale at a similar price so the higher price becomes established. The supermarket chains do this all the time. Once upon a time, it was illegal for their employees to be involved in cartel activity. Now they only need to look up each others’ prices online to match them. This is one if the main reasons our food bills just go up and up. Good point. A LOT of those prices are just unrealistic and the records are sitting there for years. I know because I don't mind waiting for things to come up at the right price sooner or later and they generally will. I bought 3 records this morning at just 30-30% of the so-called 'current prices'. This price-matching thing is relevant - you see it a lot on Discogs. I see a lot of stuff on there, where the first early copy on Discogs sold for a nutcase price and then everyone subsequently listed their copies at the same level. A sort of mass hypnopsis innit....? Ian D 2
Ian Dewhirst Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 On 3/31/2018 at 17:02, Winsford Soul said: Don't know if I should post this here or in comedy sale of the day. Broadway's. You just don't know £150. C,Mon. That's a price that's more than sky rocketed. That's a fcuking joke it's a £40 record Steve We didn't bother buying that when it was a 25p record on Bradford market! 1
Winsford Soul Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 45 minutes ago, Ian Dewhirst said: We didn't bother buying that when it was a 25p record on Bradford market! Trust your well As you know it was the other side Sweet and heavenly melodies that first brought it to attention. Which nobody plays out anywhere to my knowledge. A happy Bob along tune that's maybe slightly popish for today but no reason why it can't be played in a forgotten type set. Steve
Ady Potts Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Ian Dewhirst said: We didn't bother buying that when it was a 25p record on Bradford market! Was that because you were too busy chasing the same titles Ian & sending their prices sky rocketing?
Bossfourpart1 Posted April 2, 2018 Posted April 2, 2018 On 11/03/2018 at 17:27, AndyKempster said: Are they getting rarer? Do people have more money to spend? Are sellers just getting greedier? Are buyers getting more gullible? Or has Brexit got something to do with it? People have money to spend !!! whether its is cash or credit the prices reflect the present market. Individuals have their own financial circumstances that reflect their spending. The internet does allow for a lot of sales being bought from your armchair from anywhere in the world (with wifi ) Personally I preferred the record faires and the record bars and the events where it was more social and open to offers, perhaps these will be the next casualty? If people do not have the knowledge or do their home work then they are open to being duped and this could encourage fraudsters. 1
Geeselad Posted April 2, 2018 Posted April 2, 2018 19 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said: Don’t forget the act of ‘price matching’ This is where a record on a major dealers list is overvalued - a collector sees this and prices their copy identically. Someone else notices this and marks their copy for sale at a similar price so the higher price becomes established. The supermarket chains do this all the time. Once upon a time, it was illegal for their employees to be involved in cartel activity. Now they only need to look up each others’ prices online to match them. This is one of the main reasons our food bills just go up and up. But supermarket chains manipulate the price they buy there stock at too. Do you think record dealers have this luxury? Buy in prices are rising for dealers at the same time, surely this has to effect the retail price for punters. This thread just seems like its having a pop at sellers, but so many of us that trade records are equally guilty. I've passed on loads of tunes that are in demand, based on wants and sales on here, and I've been astonished at some prices, I've got. I'd prefer a pile of semi knows with potential to one hot, or let's face it, hammered over played record, that the oldies lot have just picked up on.
Frankie Crocker Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 On 02/04/2018 at 05:35, geeselad said: But supermarket chains manipulate the price they buy there stock at too. Do you think record dealers have this luxury? Buy in prices are rising for dealers at the same time, surely this has to effect the retail price for punters. This thread just seems like its having a pop at sellers, but so many of us that trade records are equally guilty. I've passed on loads of tunes that are in demand, based on wants and sales on here, and I've been astonished at some prices, I've got. I'd prefer a pile of semi knows with potential to one hot, or let's face it, hammered over played record, that the oldies lot have just picked up on. I think the thread is having a pop at sky-high prices but of course this can reflect badly on some sellers. Just seen Larry and the Larks on Veep advertised on Craig Moerer’s website for £178 - this is pure Comedy Sale Of The Day material based on one stupid auction price when the record usually sells for £20-30. Both Tim Brown and Pat Brady are offering Don Ray’s ‘Born A Loser’ for £200 and £250 respectively yet the record will not sell for that price - sure these sellers have overheads to cover but neither will have invested heavily in this record. Dealers are certainly entitled to earn a return on their outlay but the line between a fair price that’s mutually beneficial to buyer and seller, and an excessive price that makes the buyer feel ripped-off is a very fine one. I’d also add that some record dealers who turn up a title in quantity, parcel them out for resale at an agreed minimum price, which is absolutely fine from a business perspective but buyers can end up being overcharged when spun ‘the last copy’ yarn. 2
Colnago Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) I know a guy who took his collection to a well known dealer to sell , the dealer said he’d give him 60% of the market value , trouble was the dealer didn’t give him the market values, the guy trusted him and at the time he wasn’t savvy with the internet and trusted the dealer 😳, thing is if he were making 40%why not be honest on the valuations. I don’t know if this is relevant to “why prices are rocketing “ but just thought I’d tell it so some potential sellers can beware of some shenanigans Edited April 3, 2018 by Colnago 1
Guest ganesh Posted April 4, 2018 Posted April 4, 2018 supply and demand with northern soul works on so many levels - I have not been to a niter for years but still have my collection - some of which are shit rare. when I brought I did occasionally buy the in-demand sounds but many of my buys were semi-known which I used to bang out on tapes to other collectors and then watch their value rise. the current in-demand sounds were always a lot more than other equally rare tracks, especially those being played by the top jocks at the time and all too often we would see the values tumble a year or two later I still watch the various sounds come up for sale and am often mystified how what was a relatively common record will sell for a lot more than records which were rare in my day, but at the end of it the more people want a particular record the higher the relative value against it's rarity. I for one would not pay now for the rare records I still own at the prices I think they would fetch
Geeselad Posted April 4, 2018 Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) On 04/04/2018 at 10:35, ganesh said: supply and demand with northern soul works on so many levels - I have not been to a niter for years but still have my collection - some of which are shit rare. when I brought I did occasionally buy the in-demand sounds but many of my buys were semi-known which I used to bang out on tapes to other collectors and then watch their value rise. the current in-demand sounds were always a lot more than other equally rare tracks, especially those being played by the top jocks at the time and all too often we would see the values tumble a year or two later I still watch the various sounds come up for sale and am often mystified how what was a relatively common record will sell for a lot more than records which were rare in my day, but at the end of it the more people want a particular record the higher the relative value against it's rarity. I for one would not pay now for the rare records I still own at the prices I think they would fetch Rare isnt a permanent term, count boxes of in demand items do turn up. Edited April 5, 2018 by geeselad
Autumnstoned Posted April 5, 2018 Posted April 5, 2018 Had to laugh at this comment by JM on his recent auction for Ray Agee - I'm Losing Again (which went for £2K ). Today's conversation has been, how one of my long term valued collectors, wants dip into his savings to buy a record he's never owned and always wanted... but his wife will go mad if he spends his money on vinyl..Wives may come and go.. records of this calibre are to be treasured for the rest of your natural days..was my easy reply.. I know it's just John's witty marketing, but does anyone in their right mind even consider spending £2K on a record simply to own it, if they are worried about what their wife thinks? I've just bought The Impressions - This Is My Country on a 45 for £2.99. Just my opinion, but I think I've got the better record. 2
Julianb Posted April 5, 2018 Posted April 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, autumnstoned said: Had to laugh at this comment by JM on his recent auction for Ray Agee - I'm Losing Again (which went for £2K ). .I've just bought The Impressions - This Is My Country on a 45 for £2.99. Just my opinion, but I think I've got the better record. I don't 1
Autumnstoned Posted April 5, 2018 Posted April 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, JulianB said: I don't Oh dear I may have set myself up there! Just to be clear I do like Ray Agee too, just not £2K's worth.
Frankie Crocker Posted April 6, 2018 Posted April 6, 2018 17 hours ago, autumnstoned said: Oh dear I may have set myself up there! Just to be clear I do like Ray Agee too, just not £2K's worth. Ray Agee has not sold for 2K. John’s auction finishes next Wednesday. I suspect it will sell for 3-5K in the end. If I had a pension-pot, I would blow some of it on this record. Personally, I would prefer to have records rather than money - you can get the money anytime but you sure can’t get the records when you want them, even if you can afford them. 2
Autumnstoned Posted April 6, 2018 Posted April 6, 2018 4 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said: Ray Agee has not sold for 2K. John’s auction finishes next Wednesday. You're right - I didn't spot that. 1
Bossfourpart1 Posted April 6, 2018 Posted April 6, 2018 I recall some whisper (not sure how true) surrounding the detail regarding Ray Agee and the I'm losing again. The quote was that Ray Agee couldn't remember performing or recording the tune ? Any substance behind this quote ? I know he did quite a lot of tunes so not that unlikely .....
Popular Post Flanny Posted April 6, 2018 Popular Post Posted April 6, 2018 I'm noticing from my point of view , I've luckily got a lot of disposable income however don't see much decent stuff coming up for sale and if it does its overall too high I buy crossover and sweet soul and semi known group northern it's tuff to find anything decent anymore at any sort of decent price 5
Guest Polyvelts Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 On 05/04/2018 at 10:36, autumnstoned said: Had to laugh at this comment by JM on his recent auction for Ray Agee - I'm Losing Again (which went for £2K ). Today's conversation has been, how one of my long term valued collectors, wants dip into his savings to buy a record he's never owned and always wanted... but his wife will go mad if he spends his money on vinyl..Wives may come and go.. records of this calibre are to be treasured for the rest of your natural days..was my easy reply.. I know it's just John's witty marketing, but does anyone in their right mind even consider spending £2K on a record simply to own it, if they are worried about what their wife thinks? I've just bought The Impressions - This Is My Country on a 45 for £2.99. Just my opinion, but I think I've got the better record. I’m with you all the way here Mike, I’m only buying cheap records these days.
Frankie Crocker Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 Condition. Condition. Condition. In the last week or so, Four Voices on Voice went for about 3K, Charades on MGM for over £800 and Betty O’Brien on Liberty for over £350 These are PB’s for these records, probably due to their pristine condition. George Lemons on Gold Soul went for over 2K in Excellent condition, another price topper. This one rarely turns up in nice shape so what price for a minter?
Guest OldKingSoul Posted July 25, 2018 Posted July 25, 2018 Interesting thread. Its not just supply & demand IMO, the 'free' market is affected by price fixing as has been said. It is also true that there is a section of society in the U.K. that is quite well off, but it is a small percentage of the population. Nevertheless it is these 'elites' that can afford record (ha) prices for the top items. It's the same in many areas of collecting. This has a knock on effect down the line to some extent but by the time it gets to my £5-£10 level the effect is negligible. I have been in business (not records) and a warning to whoever said it: You can price yourself out of business; I remember Stanley Gibbons going down once. I've seen stuff on ebay 10 times market value. It costs nothing now to put the pot on and there are plenty of sellers who will do this and at that level it's just sheer greed. It might not be the sellers entire fault but its not a good business model to just rip the odd div off. Apologies to the fair deal sellers incorrectly tarred with the same brush. And again someone said you can always get money but these rare records will only be on the market once. Sheer folly in my opinion. Look after your pennies - they don't come easy. The records will come around cheap again, trouble is, it might not be in your lifetime!
Guest Gogs Posted July 25, 2018 Posted July 25, 2018 24 minutes ago, OldKingSoul said: Interesting thread. Its not just supply & demand IMO, the 'free' market is affected by price fixing as has been said. It is also true that there is a section of society in the U.K. that is quite well off, but it is a small percentage of the population. Nevertheless it is these 'elites' that can afford record (ha) prices for the top items. It's the same in many areas of collecting. This has a knock on effect down the line to some extent but by the time it gets to my £5-£10 level the effect is negligible. I have been in business (not records) and a warning to whoever said it: You can price yourself out of business; I remember Stanley Gibbons going down once. I've seen stuff on ebay 10 times market value. It costs nothing now to put the pot on and there are plenty of sellers who will do this and at that level it's just sheer greed. It might not be the sellers entire fault but its not a good business model to just rip the odd div off. Apologies to the fair deal sellers incorrectly tarred with the same brush. And again someone said you can always get money but these rare records will only be on the market once. Sheer folly in my opinion. Look after your pennies - they don't come easy. The records will come around cheap again, trouble is, it might not be in your lifetime! Leaving mine to my son, he might only get a tenner for my nm demo of "Ordinary Joe" but at least i had the pleasure of owning it.
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