The vocoder in soul music

[Guest Josep Manuel Concernau Robles]

Hello, soul brothers & sisters.

 

there's a question that intrigued me since the late 70's. What opinion deserves to you the use of the vocoder in the soul-funk, jazz-funk, disco-soul scene. Since my teens when I her for the first time "Rufusized" by Rufus feat. Chaka Khan and the album "Feet Don't fail me Now" by Herbie Hancock, I found the use of the vocoder as a simple instrument like any other (voice, vibes, strings,...) but some times used with sense and som etimes without sense,, so what is your opinion in general and what are your favorite examples of "right use of the vocoder"?

 

(I also wonder who started to using it, if was Neil Young or Herbie Hancock)

 

Thnaks in advance.

 

Peace & Soul Food

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

1 hour ago, josep manuel concernau robles said:

Hello, soul brothers & sisters.

 

there's a question that intrigued me since the late 70's. What opinion deserves to you the use of the vocoder in the soul-funk, jazz-funk, disco-soul scene. Since my teens when I her for the first time "Rufusized" by Rufus feat. Chaka Khan and the album "Feet Don't fail me Now" by Herbie Hancock, I found the use of the vocoder as a simple instrument like any other (voice, vibes, strings,...) but some times used with sense and som etimes without sense,, so what is your opinion in general and what are your favorite examples of "right use of the vocoder"?

 

(I also wonder who started to using it, if was Neil Young or Herbie Hancock)

 

Thnaks in advance.

 

Peace & Soul Food

The best Vocoder user was Roger Troutman in Zapp in my humble opinion.

Their track 'Computer Love' is my guilty secret

[Guest Josep Manuel Concernau Robles]

19 minutes ago, Andy Mac said:

The best Vocoder user was Roger Troutman in Zapp in my humble opinion.

Their track 'Computer Love' is my guilty secret

Great one! In fact many tracks by Zapp have good use of the vocoder. Here's, appart  from the two ones I mentioned before, Rufus' "Rufusized" and the whole album by Hancock "Feets Don't Fail Me Now")a very good example of magistral use of vocoder, Marvin's "Sanctified Lady":

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Good piece here from wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocoder#Uses_in_music

Fine with me if used sparingly! Love it in Dayton 'Sound of Music' 

 

[Guest Josep Manuel Concernau Robles]

Yeah, Chris Turnbull

your post by Dayton made me remember on this piece by Instant Funk

 

[Mickey Finn]

Neil Young's "Trans" album came out in 1982, whereas Herbie Hancock's "I thought it was you" came from the "Sunlight" LP in 1978. So maybe Neil Young used it earlier, and that's maybe the one case where the vocoder served to improve the final result as I've never liked his voice. But that's another story. As for Herbie, it's the instrumental break in "You bet your love" that seals the track for me.

I think the first time I heard the vocoder was John Miles on his hit "Slow down", where there's an instrumental break in which he's using it to perform a solo. That record fit the "disco" category and so sneaked into charts and playlists that were otherwise dominated by proper soul and funk acts. Phil Collins uses it quite effectively as backing on John Martyn's "Amsterdam" from the 1981 album "Glorious fool".

As you can see I'm having trouble locating the vocoder in soul - Lalo Schifrin's "Nobody home" from 1978 also comes to mind, but as with Herbie this is "soul" used very loosely. I think Wah Wah Watson was using it in his 1976 album "Elementary" ... nope, still struggling. And I never got Zapp, but they came later.

Thumbs up for Dayton - that's a big personal favourite. And Marvin.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Mickey Finn

[Guest Josep Manuel Concernau Robles]

This was a track that was a "crossover" hit here in Spain in 1978, one of the "first" predominantly vocoder track that soul and funk fans and public on general likes a lot this one that reminds a little "Slow Down" by John Miles

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by josep manuel concernau robles

[Guest Spain pete]

I 

17 minutes ago, Mickey Finn said:

Neil Young's "Trans" album came out in 1982, whereas Herbie Hancock's "I thought it was you" came from the "Sunlight" LP in 1978. So maybe Neil Young used it earlier, and that's maybe the one case where the vocoder served to improve the final result as I've never liked his voice. But that's another story. As for Herbie, it's the instrumental break in "You bet your love" that seals the track for me.

I think the first time I heard the vocoder was John Miles on his hit "Slow down", where there's an instrumental break in which he's using it to perform a solo. That record fit the "disco" category and so sneaked into charts and playlists that were otherwise dominated by proper soul and funk acts. Phil Collins uses it quite effectively as backing on John Martyn's "Amsterdam" from the 1981 album "Glorious fool".

As you can see I'm having trouble locating the vocoder in soul - Lalo Schifrin's "Nobody home" from 1978 also comes to mind, but as with Herbie this is "soul" used very loosely. I think Wah Wah Watson was using it in his 1976 album "Elementary" ... nope, still struggling. And I never got Zapp, but they came later.

Thumbs up for Dayton - that's a big personal favourite. And Marvin.

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Spain pete
wrong

[Guest Josep Manuel Concernau Robles]

2 minutes ago, Spain pete said:

I thought it was you, l thought was on the feet don't fail me now album.?

 

Is in "Sun Light" LP

[Guest Spain pete]

I was mixed up with , bet  your love . prat l am .

5 minutes ago, josep manuel concernau robles said:

Is in "Sun Light" LP

 

[Jimmy Disco D]

The earliest one I can think of (at least it sounds vocodered) is

 

Mandrill - Dirty Ole Man from the Beast From the East LP 1975

or

Ohio Players - O-H-I-O  from Angel LP 1977

 

More funk though I suppose.

 

[The Yank]

Not 100% sure but it sure sounds like there's a vocoder on "Tell Me Something Good" by Rufus from their 1974 album "Rags To Rufus". 

[Guest Spain pete]

Seem to remember Isaac Hayes using it , but for the life of me l can't remember on what .?🎶

[Guest Josep Manuel Concernau Robles]

Another, IMHO, well used vocoder with great effect, Isley's on 1982 "Are You With Me?"

 

[Mickey Finn]

Earth Wind and Fire "Let's groove" - a big hit that Maurice subsequently didn't rate alongside earlier and later work:

 

[Mickey Finn]

Ian Levine got in on the act:

 

[Daved]

This is great recent use of it by Robert Glasper

 

 

[Guest Josep Manuel Concernau Robles]

How I have forget "Deep" by Philly arranger famed Richie Rome (the same who arranges so many P.I.R. stuff and produced The Tymes... and, something I dislike, invented Richie Family):

And another "vocoder" track favorite of mine from one of my favorite fusion bands, Azymuth:

 

[The Yank]

The Brother Johnson used some vocoder near the middle of the song on this...

[The Yank]

The Italian group Kano used the vocoder extensively on this song.

[Mickey Finn]

4 hours ago, josep manuel concernau robles said:

How I have forget "Deep" by Philly arranger famed Richie Rome (the same who arranges so many P.I.R. stuff and produced The Tymes... and, something I dislike, invented Richie Family):

For me the Ritchie Family was pretty ok until Richie Rome dropped out of the production team and Jacques Morali took over, turning them into eurodisco dross, until Jacques Fred Petrus came to the rescue with the "I'll do my best" LP in 1982. Then Gavin Christopher produced their final LP "All night all right" the following year. And speaking of which, there's vocoder on the title track:

 

[The Yank]

All vocoder all the time on this song from 1977.

[Mickey Finn]

Wah Wah Watson from 1976:

 

[Mickey Finn]

George Duke's stint at Elektra was not a happy one. His second, self-titled LP for the label in 1985 was made under some pressure to make something "like" the Art of Noise - and this was the result:

 

[Geeselad]

used to like a bit of vocoder, especially Mr Hancock, nowadays it reminds me too much of the vast majority of contemporary pop, synthetic, plastic sounding and as thin as paper. For me it marks a debarkation point when it became acceptable to throw effects over somebodies voice who couldn't cut the mustard. Cowell you ruined music perhaps forever!

[Mickey Finn]

I think you're sort of right about what it represents, but the damage goes back further than Cowell. It's the finance guys chasing the bucks with the latest thing - Cowell is just a more recent version, to be replaced by even newer, more plasticky versions no doubt. The Art of Noise was clever stuff and very avant garde at the time, but it didn't really last more than one LP, and the George Duke track above is a perfect illustration of why - there's really not much more you can do with that style. He did plenty of slick commercially targeted productions during the 80s, beginning with the Blackbyrds who weren't so impressed (ironically for the same reasons), but "Broken glass" seemed to stick out in Duke's memory as one of the worst examples of the formula dictating the content.

[Geeselad]

6 hours ago, Mickey Finn said:

George Duke's stint at Elektra was not a happy one. His second, self-titled LP for the label in 1985 was made under some pressure to make something "like" the Art of Noise - and this was the result:

 

Shite like that is what made house music sound so fresh in the mid eighties. Loads of producers with new electronic innovations at their fingertips, yet it took amateurs with second rate musical toys to show them how to use technology.