Dave Godin / Mick Jagger

[Stevesilktulip]

You said something about Jaggers millions!!!

If something -music, book, film - is only relevant at a particular time, it can't have been very good. I listen to music from the 20s and 30s which still sounds relevant today, (I read books from even further back).

I doubt very much if you've seen more live acts than me, and certainly not across genres, though I don't watch pop/rock/and roll. This despite you being a good bit older, something I'm not actually sad about I have to say.

Fabs, Stones, Van, Who, Kinks, Rod, Elton, Bowie etc etc etc have all been forthright in acknowledging their influences and I'm not necessarily blaming them. It's the media who've turned all these black artists into the people, without whom, we'd never have had the Beatles and the Stones, like that's what they were for.

Peace and tranquility, I think perhaps you have anger management issues.  

[Hooker1951]

I know they played live in the Empress Ballroom in what was to become The Casino in November 1963  they were special guests playing second billing to the Beat Boys a local wigan band I was there and they caused quite a stir

ML

PS

in all honesty from a logical point of view I wouldn't think Dave Godin would have had that much influence on on Mick jagger,s thoughts on RNB  at the time all the group were bang into RnBwith the exception of Charlie watts who preferred Jazz

Leave Dave Godin with the glory of naming Northern Soul

Leave Mick jagger to being a Rolling stone

ML

[Stevesilktulip]

Can't tell a lie, I doubt very much that DG had any influence on any of them. His glory days/ time in the sun were a few years later. I believe he also named Deep Soul which I'm probably more impressed by, though he lost control of both, which is the way of things.

[maslar]

1 minute ago, stevesilktulip said:

Can't tell a lie, I doubt very much that DG had any influence on any of them. His glory days/ time in the sun were a few years later. I believe he also named Deep Soul which I'm probably more impressed by, though he lost control of both, which is the way of things.

He didn't have control of either - it wasn't a trade mark. Just a moniker.

[maslar]

1 hour ago, stevesilktulip said:

You said something about Jaggers millions!!!

If something -music, book, film - is only relevant at a particular time, it can't have been very good. I listen to music from the 20s and 30s which still sounds relevant today, (I read books from even further back).

I doubt very much if you've seen more live acts than me, and certainly not across genres, though I don't watch pop/rock/and roll. This despite you being a good bit older, something I'm not actually sad about I have to say.

Fabs, Stones, Van, Who, Kinks, Rod, Elton, Bowie etc etc etc have all been forthright in acknowledging their influences and I'm not necessarily blaming them. It's the media who've turned all these black artists into the people, without whom, we'd never have had the Beatles and the Stones, like that's what they were for.

Peace and tranquility, I think perhaps you have anger management issues.  

Strange perspective. People of all ages are still buying the entire Stones catalogue today and listening to it. It's still relvant to many  people. I don't think anyone who seriously appreciates music can deny the influence of the Stones and the Jagger/Richards songwriting partnership. Is that your point? What exactly is your point?

Edited March 7, 2018 by maslar
typo

[maslar]

11 hours ago, JoeSoap said:

I think we can discount this theory on the basis that in order to join / attend the school blues club (if this even existed) then Mick must have already been interested in black music. He can't therefore have been 'introduced' to black music by Dave after joining....

Thanks for all the replies by the way. Very interesting and amusing thread. 

 

 

Very true. Incidentally at the grammar school I went to we didn't have an after school blues club. There was woodwork and gym. sadly no blues appreciation. Ah those grammar school days. And if you'd left you wouldn't have been welcome at any of them.

[Hooker1951]

1 hour ago, stevesilktulip said:

You said something about Jaggers millions!!!

If something -music, book, film - is only relevant at a particular time, it can't have been very good. I listen to music from the 20s and 30s which still sounds relevant today, (I read books from even further back).

I doubt very much if you've seen more live acts than me, and certainly not across genres, though I don't watch pop/rock/and roll. This despite you being a good bit older, something I'm not actually sad about I have to say.

Fabs, Stones, Van, Who, Kinks, Rod, Elton, Bowie etc etc etc have all been forthright in acknowledging their influences and I'm not necessarily blaming them. It's the media who've turned all these black artists into the people, without whom, we'd never have had the Beatles and the Stones, like that's what they were for.

Peace and tranquility, I think perhaps you have anger management issues.  

The music that I love and have grown up with always as a relevance to me it's part of soul and who IAm today, I am also well read in books and life's experiences as regards myself having anger management issues I can assure you I don't in fact I made a good living for over 45 years sorting people out did, you do come across I'm afraid as passive aggressive, anyone who thinks somebody who wished peace and tranquility on them had anger issues must have underlying problems, It seems to me that your pretty much obsessed with millions of pounds I haven't got that problem, Not only have I been seeing acts since 1963 I was involved in the Night club industry for over 40 years actually looking after the artists security wise so if you have seen more live acts than me good on you but I very very much doubt it , I've also lived with the brothers , Danced with the brothers and been told by the brothers that I am a brother in the USA and other foreign climes but this article is about Mick Jagger and Dave Goddin not me and you LoL

Take it easy and have a great day things might be better tomorrow

kind Regards ML

[Stevesilktulip]

Things are fantastic today. I'm just fighting the revolution to get the real music the recognition it deserves. If that's passive agressive that's me. It's not enough to say peace and tranquility when your words don't match it. I think you brought up the millions.

[Stevesilktulip]

 

My goodness.

Are people really defending one of the naffest groups ever on a soul site,; who influenced more naff groups.

Does the media go on and on (and on and on and on) about these groups because people like them, or do people like them because the media goes on and on (and on and on) about them. Which comes first?

As Soul Fans, I thought we all got this. 

We listen to the most obscure artists but still think these fake, lightwight, naff British pop groups are best.

[Mike]

can we get back to discussing the topic not each other

thanks

[Guest MBarrett]

On 3/2/2018 at 16:34, DaveNPete said:

Dave told us that he continued to run the school blues club after he left - hence meeting Jagger.

Dx

I was at a grammar school from 1963 on. I think if I had gone to our headmaster and asked if I could start a school blues club I would have very rapidly been shown the door.

Maybe Dave Godin's passion and personality overcame such obstacles. Maybe there was some extremely accommodating and like-minded music teacher. But I would love to see third party confirmation that this club did exist. And how and where and when.

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by MBarrett

[Guest]

Didn't Godin invite like minded individuals to his house/ flat in Kent. Friends sitting around playing blues/r&b records....he certainly did this when forming the TM Appreciation Society.

Perhaps Jagger was one of those "swingers and friends" as Godin referred to in his magazines, and maybe fell foul of the "Master".

[Guest]

Regarding Dave Godin being the person who invented the term "Northern Soul", Paul Clifford makes the claim that it was his father, Cliff Clifford, who first applied that term to the records being asked for at Soul City.

It had always struck me that the credit/blame depending on your outlook, should be given to the first promoter who slapped "Northern Soul" on a flyer/poster/advertisement......without that, NS would have been buried in Godin's Blues and Soul column.

Anybody want to name THAT individual.

[Tomangoes]

Did Dave Godin 'like' northern soul ?

Obviously not every tune, but in general? 

Ed

[Guest Spain pete]

Hate to categorise. but thought his favorite bag was deep , sleeve notes to the deep soul treasures series would suggest that 🎶

Edited March 7, 2018 by Spain pete

[Ady Croasdell]

25 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

Did Dave Godin 'like' northern soul ?

Obviously not every tune, but in general? 

Ed

He liked soul, there’s no musical style called Northern Soul. It would depend what the record was 

[Ady Croasdell]

He adored the concept of working class teenagers adopting great uptempo soul tracks and dancing all night to them

[Davebanks]

2 hours ago, snakepit said:

Regarding Dave Godin being the person who invented the term "Northern Soul", Paul Clifford makes the claim that it was his father, Cliff Clifford, who first applied that term to the records being asked for at Soul City.

It had always struck me that the credit/blame depending on your outlook, should be given to the first promoter who slapped "Northern Soul" on a flyer/poster/advertisement......without that, NS would have been buried in Godin's Blues and Soul column.

Anybody want to name THAT individual.

I thought that was Tony Petherbridge from Whitchurch, promoting the Raven and other events in the area. Certainly when I used to speak to Tony in his shop in Whitchurch he used to complain that he should have copyrighted the term Northern Soul!!!!    Maybe wishful thinking Eh.

Dave Banks

[Guest]

Well it's a start I guess.

This , of course, proves the old adage "Success has a thousand fathers, failure is an orphan". But seriously, somebody must have took note of Godin's comments, and thought about using it to promote a 'rare soul' night, as some were being named at the time. I started going to the Wheel around the time of that article. I don't remember the term being used, and perhaps others can say that it was used at other venues. 

But, the club scene he described was happening before the term was in print, and somebody then took that term on to another level.

 

 

[Tomangoes]

3 hours ago, ady croasdell said:

He liked soul, there’s no musical style called Northern Soul. It would depend what the record was 

No musical style called Northern Soul? That's going to piss off the badge and patch wearing, tattoo inflicted, flat cap and 40 inch bottom baggies brigade, for sure

Those folks have been trying to define it since Davie Boy 'quoted it'............they will be gobsmacked:) A way of life totally destroyed.

For sure then, Dave must have only liked a few tunes of the musical style he coined a phrase for, if he only liked soul, in its purest sense.

Ed

 

[Guest]

Did Dave "coin" the phrase...see above for Cliff Clifford's claim.

[Shinehead]

1 minute ago, tomangoes said:

No musical style called Northern Soul? That's going to piss off the badge and patch wearing, tattoo inflicted, flat cap and 40 inch bottom baggies brigade, for sure

Those folks have been trying to define it since Davie Boy 'quoted it'............they will be gobsmacked:) A way of life totally destroyed.

For sure then, Dave must have only liked a few tunes of the musical style he coined a phrase for, if he only liked soul, in its purest sense.

Ed

 

Soul to me in its purest sense could be Northern , Deep . Sweet whatever name you call it .

Thankfully like Dave my taste takes in all styles of soul music and thats why I,m  still in to this music after nearly 50 years.

 

[Julianb]

4 hours ago, tomangoes said:

Did Dave Godin 'like' northern soul ?

Obviously not every tune, but in general? 

Ed

One of his favourites was 'Let me down easy'

[Guest]

I think you'll find most off his "significant sides" in B&S were uptempo, 60s soul that could be danced to.

Suggests he liked that style of soul music.

[Guest Spain pete]

I think the one your talking about would have been a fav of his , but l would not be surprised if the rare pleasure track would have tickled his taste buds as well .🎶

[Guest Spain pete]

7 minutes ago, JulianB said:

One of his favourites was 'Let me down easy'

 

[Guest Spain pete]

Just now, Spain pete said:

 

 

[Dylan]

28 minutes ago, shinehead said:

Soul to me in its purest sense could be Northern , Deep . Sweet whatever name you call it .

Thankfully like Dave my taste takes in all styles of soul music and thats why I,m  still in to this music after nearly 50 years.

 

I dont think you could listen to just northern for 50 years.

 

i know i couldnt.

[Stevesilktulip]

Sorry guv (got wrong).

I know DG was a fan of the Doris Duke album; more than me.

I'm sure when (if) he named it NS he didn't expect it to take in disco (which didn't exist), funk and jazz funk, much less pop music, theme tunes and novelty records. Going off his Treasures album, he had a different view of Deep Soul from me, and I know others are different again. Once you name something, it's in the public domain with a life of its own.

He once named Rock your Baby one of his favourite albums, but things change; at the time I'd have agreed with him. Have nothing but admiration for him.

Anybody see Jagger on the news? Kidding! Just kidding! 

[Joesoap]

Funnily enough, I stumbled across this quote from Jagger today about his band's early days and their switch from doing r'n'b covers..

“You could say that we did blues to turn people on, but why they would be turned on by us is unbelievably stupid. I mean what's the point in listening to us doing ‘I’m a King Bee’ when you can hear Slim Harpo do it?”

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/why-slim-harpo-remains-king-bee-of-the-blues-10184525.html

They weren't exactly Pat Boone. They started out as enthusiasts playing the music they loved then they started writing their own stuff which at its best had the feeling but took it in their own direction. So I think the idea that they simply 'ripped off' black music is simplistic and inaccurate. Bobby Womack said he hated their cover until the royalties (which helped sustain him for life) started rolling in. They also paid their dues in terms of support acts etc. So you could say that they did a bit more to tangibly support and help the artists they admired than a retailer cum journalist  who championed  obscure, hard to find, deleted records...

 

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by JoeSoap

[Geeselad]

36 minutes ago, JoeSoap said:

Funnily enough, I stumbled across this quote from Jagger today about his band's early days and their switch from doing r'n'b covers..

“You could say that we did blues to turn people on, but why they would be turned on by us is unbelievably stupid. I mean what's the point in listening to us doing ‘I’m a King Bee’ when you can hear Slim Harpo do it?”

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/why-slim-harpo-remains-king-bee-of-the-blues-10184525.html

They weren't exactly Pat Boone. They started out as enthusiasts playing the music they loved then they started writing their own stuff which at its best had the feeling but took it in their own direction. So I think the idea that they simply 'ripped off' black music is simplistic and inaccurate. Bobby Womack said he hated their cover until the royalties (which helped sustain him for life) started rolling in. They also paid their dues in terms of support acts etc. So you could say that they did a bit more to tangibly support and help the artists they admired than a retailer cum journalist  who championed  obscure, hard to find, deleted records...

 

 

It's a little disengenuios to call the guy just a record retailer. His contribution, like the stone's, toward the popularisation of black music in Europe is immeasurable. It seems too many on the thread are turning this into a battle between godin and the stones based on personal preferences. 

[Stevesilktulip]

So we're back on dissing the Stones. Never tire of that. I've never understood why anyone would buy an album by Stones, Rory Gallagher, Gary Moore, Stevie Ray Vaughan or Joe Bonamassa. (I've actually bought albums by all of them but only out of curiosity - that's what I do). So many albums by so many great blues artists. Tom, Dick and Harry I love but that animal man still doesn't like buying music by black people, which goes from Glenn Miller to Eminem.

[Ady Croasdell]

11 hours ago, JoeSoap said:

Funnily enough, I stumbled across this quote from Jagger today about his band's early days and their switch from doing r'n'b covers..

“You could say that we did blues to turn people on, but why they would be turned on by us is unbelievably stupid. I mean what's the point in listening to us doing ‘I’m a King Bee’ when you can hear Slim Harpo do it?”

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/why-slim-harpo-remains-king-bee-of-the-blues-10184525.html

They weren't exactly Pat Boone. They started out as enthusiasts playing the music they loved then they started writing their own stuff which at its best had the feeling but took it in their own direction. So I think the idea that they simply 'ripped off' black music is simplistic and inaccurate. Bobby Womack said he hated their cover until the royalties (which helped sustain him for life) started rolling in. They also paid their dues in terms of support acts etc. So you could say that they did a bit more to tangibly support and help the artists they admired than a retailer cum journalist  who championed  obscure, hard to find, deleted records...

 

 

Dave championed classics as well, he just didn't need to know it had charted to give his opinion. His Deep Soul Treasures are dotted with classics and he loved 'Band Of Gold' as much as Sandi Sheldon.

[Ady Croasdell]

11 hours ago, JoeSoap said:

Funnily enough, I stumbled across this quote from Jagger today about his band's early days and their switch from doing r'n'b covers..

“You could say that we did blues to turn people on, but why they would be turned on by us is unbelievably stupid. I mean what's the point in listening to us doing ‘I’m a King Bee’ when you can hear Slim Harpo do it?”

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/why-slim-harpo-remains-king-bee-of-the-blues-10184525.html

They weren't exactly Pat Boone. They started out as enthusiasts playing the music they loved then they started writing their own stuff which at its best had the feeling but took it in their own direction. So I think the idea that they simply 'ripped off' black music is simplistic and inaccurate. Bobby Womack said he hated their cover until the royalties (which helped sustain him for life) started rolling in. They also paid their dues in terms of support acts etc. So you could say that they did a bit more to tangibly support and help the artists they admired than a retailer cum journalist  who championed  obscure, hard to find, deleted records...

 

 

And it would have been quite hard to buy I'm A King Bee unless you were a committed record buyer, plus people tend to like the first version of a song they hear first so Stones fans would actually prefer their version; Jagger knew Harpo's was better but their fans didn't and weren't into it enough to search out the original. People consume music at different levels and for different reasons.

[Ady Croasdell]

15 hours ago, tomangoes said:

No musical style called Northern Soul? That's going to piss off the badge and patch wearing, tattoo inflicted, flat cap and 40 inch bottom baggies brigade, for sure

Those folks have been trying to define it since Davie Boy 'quoted it'............they will be gobsmacked:) A way of life totally destroyed.

For sure then, Dave must have only liked a few tunes of the musical style he coined a phrase for, if he only liked soul, in its purest sense.

Ed

 

I apologise in advance against that catastrophe.

 

He liked a lot of uptempo sides, many of which were played on the Northern scene, and not just 60s classics - The Crow for Christ's sake - ahead of his time on that one. 

[Stevesilktulip]

I heard all these dreadful pop records as a kid in the sixties and thought they wer dreadful. When I heard the originals years later I thought they were brilliant. Jagger doing the Wolf; who did he think he was? Zappa, Ian Anderson (the Jethro Tull one) and even Iggy Pop realised they didn't have the cultural facility to play blues. 

[maslar]

2 hours ago, stevesilktulip said:

So we're back on dissing the Stones. Never tire of that. I've never understood why anyone would buy an album by Stones, Rory Gallagher, Gary Moore, Stevie Ray Vaughan or Joe Bonamassa. (I've actually bought albums by all of them but only out of curiosity - that's what I do). So many albums by so many great blues artists. Tom, Dick and Harry I love but that animal man still doesn't like buying music by black people, which goes from Glenn Miller to Eminem.

animal man?

[maslar]

39 minutes ago, stevesilktulip said:

I heard all these dreadful pop records as a kid in the sixties and thought they wer dreadful. When I heard the originals years later I thought they were brilliant. Jagger doing the Wolf; who did he think he was? Zappa, Ian Anderson (the Jethro Tull one) and even Iggy Pop realised they didn't have the cultural facility to play blues. 

cultural facility?

[Stevesilktulip]

Make up another expression if you prefer. You may not have noticed that language and ideas aren't a perfect match. People talk about blues in terms of chords and scales, but there's another quality whitey almost never gets - Soul. The same is true of Soul though there's Eddie Hinton, Bobby Caldwell and a few others; the northern people will also have some. It's more common in jazz, but the great great greats are all black and the whiteys tend to be examples of the ending of Mezz Mezzrow's  'Really the Blues'.

Zappa, Anderson and Pop people knew they couldn't do it and did something else. Beefheart is a good example of whitey making blues but there's far more to his music than just blues. I don't say that as a criticism of blues which is far less technical than the jazz and classical Beefheart draws from. In 'the Rest is Noise' Ross defines him as 'twisted blues' and may have got away with it if he hadn't put Zappa in their too. The blues input to Frank was minimal for music with high rock and jazz content. The first Bob Dylan album is not a bad stab at white blues but he went in another direction. Canadian Watermelon Slim is the best I've come across, but he's hardly a giant of the genre.

[Geeselad]

9 minutes ago, stevesilktulip said:

Make up another expression if you prefer. You may not have noticed that language and ideas aren't a perfect match. People talk about blues in terms of chords and scales, but there's another quality whitey almost never gets - Soul. The same is true of Soul though there's Eddie Hinton, Bobby Caldwell and a few others; the northern people will also have some. It's more common in jazz, but the great great greats are all black and the whiteys tend to be examples of the ending of Mezz Mezzrow's  'Really the Blues'.

Zappa, Anderson and Pop people knew they couldn't do it and did something else. Beefheart is a good example of whitey making blues but there's far more to his music than just blues. I don't say that as a criticism of blues which is far less technical than the jazz and classical Beefheart draws from. In 'the Rest is Noise' Ross defines him as 'twisted blues' and may have got away with it if he hadn't put Zappa in their too. The blues input to Frank was minimal for music with high rock and jazz content. The first Bob Dylan album is not a bad stab at white blues but he went in another direction. Canadian Watermelon Slim is the best I've come across, but he's hardly a giant of the genre.

Alex Harvey could do it for me. Though again he had much more to offer than honkey blues. Sadly unlike cb and zappa the middle classes didn't get him, he had a massive working class audience, especially here in Stoke. Vambo was indeed scrawled on a wall. 

[Tomangoes]

If you put yourself in Dave Godin's shoes, as say a 20 year old, who obviously loved a certain kind of music, and over the next few years various bands copy that music, but in his opinion it was not as good or even a rip off, you can imagine him 'expressing his discontentment' 

I'm sure most of us ' Northerners ' felt the same way about soft cell and tainted love.

No denying though that some of these cherished original artists made some money from it or at the very least some recognition.

The recording music business was always about money anyway.

I'm sure all the deep soul treasure cd's were hopeful of returning a profit, not just educating the masses.

Ed

 

 

 

[Guest Spain pete]

28 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

If you put yourself in Dave Godin's shoes, as say a 20 year old, who obviously loved a certain kind of music, and over the next few years various bands copy that music, but in his opinion it was not as good or even a rip off, you can imagine him 'expressing his discontentment' 

I'm sure most of us ' Northerners ' felt the same way about soft cell and tainted love.

No denying though that some of these cherished original artists made some money from it or at the very least some recognition.

The recording music business was always about money anyway.

I'm sure all the deep soul treasure cd's were hopeful of returning a profit, not just educating the masses.

Ed

 

 

 

I'm a southern er and l'm pissed of with Marc almond 🙅👎

[Ady Croasdell]

1 hour ago, tomangoes said:

If you put yourself in Dave Godin's shoes, as say a 20 year old, who obviously loved a certain kind of music, and over the next few years various bands copy that music, but in his opinion it was not as good or even a rip off, you can imagine him 'expressing his discontentment' 

I'm sure most of us ' Northerners ' felt the same way about soft cell and tainted love.

No denying though that some of these cherished original artists made some money from it or at the very least some recognition.

The recording music business was always about money anyway.

I'm sure all the deep soul treasure cd's were hopeful of returning a profit, not just educating the masses.

Ed

 

 

 

Funnily enough Dave was worried the Deep Soul Treasures would be a big flop and we’d lose on it; so much so that he refused to have a compilers fee for it. 

The series is just about our most successful commercially and artistically 

[Ian Parker]

I've  just been for a beer with the guitarist in my last band,.  He lived in Sheffield during the 80's and became good friends with DG.  (Through a cinema club).   He has just been telling me stories,. Ref Mick and Keith ,. Believe me , he has absolutely no idea of anything Northern Soul,. But ironically , his tales of DG,. Jagger n co have some provenance . 

     Mick n keith pilfering records from Dave in the early 60's... I'll get more info next Thursday 

[Stevesilktulip]

Yea, something we all agree on; we all hate Soft Cell. Do I spoil things by admitting I never liked either of the originals.?

[Tomangoes]

Well...

What.....can now be argued was a pop song blue eyed etc, but Tainted Love is right up there with the best of uptempo soul.

Both obviously packed the dancefloor in their day. 

However there's no rules on what individuals should or should not like! Especially in the strange world of NS!

Ed

[Joesoap]

2 hours ago, stevesilktulip said:

Yea, something we all agree on; we all hate Soft Cell. Do I spoil things by admitting I never liked either of the originals.?

Got no problem with Soft Cell really. They simply covered a song but did it in a completely different way. You can't really accuse them of ripping off black music or trying to copy Gloria Jones.

Then there is Joy Division who in their early days briefly had some managerial involvement from Richard Searling. Richard tried to get them to record a cover of NF Porter 'Keep On Keeping On' but they weren't up to it musicianship-wise. Nevertheless, one of the tracks on their first LP (which is considered one of the greatest LPs ever made by many rock fans) is clearly based on it. Did they 'rip off black music'? Did they fuck. Records always used to copy and modify slightly and directly nick bits from other records. Where would Northern Soul itself be without this? Loads of the classics are derivative of other, better-known records (eg compare intro of Mello Souls to 'You Keep Me Hanging On'...)

Finally, to get back on topic (at last) in Andrew Loog Oldham's autobiography (which is a brilliant read) he claims that on the Rolling Stones early records, where they were doing covers, he simply got them to play along to the original record in the studio. He even claims of their released recording of 'Time Is On My Side' that it was done on two or four track and that one of the channels, turned down to zero for the released record, is the Irma Thomas version!

 

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by JoeSoap

[Ady Croasdell]

3 hours ago, JoeSoap said:

Got no problem with Soft Cell really. They simply covered a song but did it in a completely different way. You can't really accuse them of ripping off black music or trying to copy Gloria Jones.

Then there is Joy Division who in their early days briefly had some managerial involvement from Richard Searling. Richard tried to get them to record a cover of NF Porter 'Keep On Keeping On' but they weren't up to it musicianship-wise. Nevertheless, one of the tracks on their first LP (which is considered one of the greatest LPs ever made by many rock fans) is clearly based on it. Did they 'rip off black music'? Did they fuck. Records always used to copy and modify slightly and directly nick bits from other records. Where would Northern Soul itself be without this? Loads of the classics are derivative of other, better-known records (eg compare intro of Mello Souls to 'You Keep Me Hanging On'...)

Finally, to get back on topic (at last) in Andrew Loog Oldham's autobiography (which is a brilliant read) he claims that on the Rolling Stones early records, where they were doing covers, he simply got them to play along to the original record in the studio. He even claims of their released recording of 'Time Is On My Side' that it was done on two or four track and that one of the channels, turned down to zero for the released record, is the Irma Thomas version!

 

 

However they do a very different version of Chuck Berry’s ‘Come On’ I hardly recognised it when I eventually heard Chuck’s original 

[Ady Croasdell]

6 hours ago, IanP said:

I've  just been for a beer with the guitarist in my last band,.  He lived in Sheffield during the 80's and became good friends with DG.  (Through a cinema club).   He has just been telling me stories,. Ref Mick and Keith ,. Believe me , he has absolutely no idea of anything Northern Soul,. But ironically , his tales of DG,. Jagger n co have some provenance . 

     Mick n keith pilfering records from Dave in the early 60's... I'll get more info next Thursday 

Great timing, should be very fruitful and tell him there’s a crowd of Anoraks awaiting his every word

[Stevesilktulip]

Blues, jazz, soul and reggae couln't have existed the way things are now, with everybody sueing everybody.

Many people came to Tainted Love and What through Soft Cell, but I don't think this is a good thing. Had they had more respect for NS they'd have picked better ones rather than bigger ones.