Johnnie on the spot, Dennis Edwards.

[Marty57]

First time i come across this was in 2004 on a vinyl compilation called northern soul in the city, totally blew me away. Very rare on a lable called International soulsville.What i would like to know is who discovered it ? When & where it was first played? Current value too, & just how rare is it ? Hope someone out there can help, many thanks Martin.

[Dylan]

It was on a millionaires cd (vol 2) late 90s prior to that which tim brown compiled he may have discovered it ?

 

i agree it is a fantastic record a great double sider.

[Mick Holdsworth]

Big record for Soul Sam in early to mid 90's, maybe 1993 or so. I think it was fairly new (to Sam) about then. It may have bee around before then, but that's the first copy I ever saw.

Cheers
Mick

[Floyd]

Hi

Martin Koppel, discovered it, first heard it on a detroit rarities tape Martin did

in the late 80s, early nineties i think, tape had some cracking stuff on , freddy butler, save your love-wheelsvile ect

and if i remember right, the B side to jonny on the spot was good as well, still have the tape just nothing to play it on

ATB

Floyd

[Chalky]

Think it was 90 or 91 when it arrived on these shores. I’ll ask Andy Dyson as he was there at the time if memory serves. Unless of course he sees this topic befoore I get to ask. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by chalky

[Rich Buckley]

Didn't Rod Shard/Dave Withers turn one up I seem to recall....

[Marty57]

Thanks for the response guys , yep other side mid tempo magic , 'did'nt know how to',   i've heard Ted Masey has a copy & might be playing  it Saturday at North Wings soul nite near Chesterfield, heres hoping , fitting tribute to Dennis me thinks .

[Grumpyfella]

1 hour ago, Rich Buckley said:

Didn't Rod Shard/Dave Withers turn one up I seem to recall....

Yes Rod Shard and Alex Jones found one on one of their trips in USA. Just asked Alge who had that copy off them. He thinks Nigel Parker got that.

Cheers

Phil

 

[Guest]

It was played as part of a tribute to Dennis Edwards on Monday evening on the Radio Uckfield 105 soul show. The Big A C also played a three song tribute to Danny Woods. Musical taste is personal of course but for me 'Johnny On The Spot' isn't a good song or a good listen.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Firecrest

[Tai-pan]

5 hours ago, chalky said:

Think it was 90 or 91 when it arrived on these shores. I’ll ask Andy Dyson as he was there at the time if memory serves. Unless of course he sees this topic befoore I get to ask. 

You lost a clean decade there mate, It was 80 / 81 . Sam was first to play, I'm trying to remember what the cover-up artist was .... Hmm?

Oh, and Rushy had it not long after (I think) 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Tai-Pan

[Theothertosspot]

Seem to recall reading in an issue of Shades of Soul that Tim Brown (quote from himself in an article therein) that he supplied Sam with the first copy. Shall look through to find which issue (sure it was after issue 11).

[Benji]

wasn't this pressed in the 90s? Reversed labels, white. Contrary to the original, labels correct and black. Or am I mixing it up?

[Frankie Crocker]

43 minutes ago, Benji said:

wasn't this pressed in the 90s? Reversed labels, white. Contrary to the original, labels correct and black. Or am I mixing it up?

You’re correct, it was pressed up in the 90’s. Labels were the right way round but some may have been faulty. The original has red and black details on a white label easily distinguished from the plainer pressing. I think the pressings were done in Detroit - I got my copy at Street Corner Records where it was in the racks with a few other Detroit sounding pressings, one of which had reversed labels and maybe handwritten credits. Original is very rare and both sides are good - Johnny On The Spot is a terrific up-tempo dancer, surely one of Dennis’ best releases...

Edited February 8, 2018 by FRANKIE CROCKER
typo

[Benji]

Thanks for confirming that. For a moment I thought I was making it up. However, I strongly disagree on this being one of Dennis best. I think both sides are awful

[Jim G]

Just sold on EBay in January for $2800, first one in years sold on ebay

https://www.popsike.com/Holy-Grail-Detroit-Record-45RPM-Vinyl-Dennis-Edwards-Johnnie-on-the-Spot/192434026723.html

 

[Marty57]

9 hours ago, Benji said:

Thanks for confirming that. For a moment I thought I was making it up. However, I strongly disagree on this being one of Dennis best. I think both sides are awful

Oh really i would be very interested to know what you consider to be a good example of 'northern soul' , start a thread & tell us .

[Marc Forrest]

Not a Ted nor a Soul Sam record, by far not. Actually its been played at Stafford already, Steve Smith aired it. But it might have been just the odd one or two spins which explains why when Tim Brown started olaying it after him (the better of the two great sides, I Didnt Have To) he claimed to have duscovered it. So its Steve and Tim. Mid Eighties.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Marc Forrest

[Marc Forrest]

9 hours ago, Benji said:

Thanks for confirming that. For a moment I thought I was making it up. However, I strongly disagree on this being one of Dennis best. I think both sides are awful

Haha, Benji....for a moment I thought you are being serious. You are not, arent you ;) 

[Chalky]

36 minutes ago, Marc Forrest said:

Not a Ted nor a Soul Sam record, by far not. Actually its been played at Stafford already, Steve Smith aired it. But it might have been just the odd one or two spins which explains why when Tim Brown started olaying it after him (the better of the two great sides, I Didnt Have To) he claimed to have duscovered it. So its Steve and Tim. Mid Eighties.

First I heard of it being a Stafford play. I don’t recall hearing it in the 80s. 

[Guest chorleybloke]

Booted on a black label.. in the 80s I think.  The w/d is rare enough but there's also a beige issue you never see.  Total number of known copies?.... hard to say but my guess would be less than 20 and one of those that would go mental at auction methinks.  One of the top 3 double-siders of all time IMO.

[Floyd]

Hi

Tim must have got it off his business partner Martin Koppell in the 80s

as tim, martin and john farrell came round my house and bought my first collection off me in the 80s

and i had already had martins detroit tape for some time  (with johnny on the spot on) by then

as i said in previos message i still have tape, will try and dig it out to see if its got a date on the tape

ATB

Floyd

 

[Stanley]

one of the highlights of a famous trip over 20 years ago was to bring back the original  cream issue of dennis edwards johnny on the spot /i didn,t have to..when in detroit we also came across the black pressed up copies there were a few 25 count boxes  at the time i recall.

Quote

 

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by stanley

[Benji]

7 hours ago, Marc Forrest said:

Haha, Benji....for a moment I thought you are being serious. You are not, arent you ;) 

I am. Neither side excites me the slightest.

[Ncfc]

8 hours ago, chalky said:

First I heard of it being a Stafford play. I don’t recall hearing it in the 80s. 

Nigel Parker put the other side on a tape for me that was mid to late 80s.

[neckender]

On 8 February 2018 at 11:00, floyd said:

Hi

Martin Koppel, discovered it, first heard it on a detroit rarities tape Martin did

in the late 80s, early nineties i think, tape had some cracking stuff on , freddy butler, save your love-wheelsvile ect

and if i remember right, the B side to jonny on the spot was good as well, still have the tape just nothing to play it on

ATB

Floyd

I was at tim brown's place in the late 8ts/early 9ts (can't remember exactly when) and he told me that he'd just got one of the best unknowns for a long time and he played me the two sides covered up. It wasn't for sale; he just wanted me to hear it and i wasn't unimpressed!!   I assumed Martin K had found it, but i later heard that it had been discovered by Craig Moerer and sent to Anglo American.  Ill ask Craig to confirm this sometime, or someone else can.

[Frankie Crocker]

18 hours ago, Benji said:

However, I strongly disagree on this being one of Dennis best. I think both sides are awful

Pray tell me, which are Dennis’ best tracks?

Remember, there’s no such thing as a bad soul record, it’s just that some are much better than others...

[Frankie Crocker]

17 minutes ago, neckender said:

I was at tim brown's place in the late 8ts/early 9ts (can't remember exactly when) and he told me that he'd just got one of the best unknowns for a long time and he played me the two sides covered up. It wasn't for sale; he just wanted me to hear it and i wasn't unimpressed!!   I assumed Martin K had found it, but i later heard that it had been discovered by Craig Moerer and sent to Anglo American.  Ill ask Craig to confirm this sometime, or someone else can.

If you were impressed, that that counts as an excellent record in any language. If a record impresses on the first listening, it’s probably because it is very good and will sound better and better with further spins.

[Tom Bois]

Pretty sure I saw one in Kenny Burrell's box a few years ago. I remember because I love both sides & It's the only time I've seen one.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, neckender said:

I was at tim brown's place in the late 8ts/early 9ts (can't remember exactly when) and he told me that he'd just got one of the best unknowns for a long time and he played me the two sides covered up. It wasn't for sale; he just wanted me to hear it and i wasn't unimpressed!!   I assumed Martin K had found it, but i later heard that it had been discovered by Craig Moerer and sent to Anglo American.  Ill ask Craig to confirm this sometime, or someone else can.

Now you mention it Craig is the story I was told by Andy.

[Still Diggin]

4 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Pray tell me, which are Dennis’ best tracks?

Remember, there’s no such thing as a bad soul record, it’s just that some are much better than others...

A good start could be 'When the lights come down on love', then listen to 45 on Soulville Int. I think most soul fans who listen to all genres rare or otherwise would agree the vocal on the 'Johnny' side is rather tired and safe, saved slightly by Joe hunter's arrangment, but then you could hear that on a thousand other Detroit 45's. Had it come pressed up in quantity on Ric-Tic or similar you would probably never hear it again. Or just check out some of his performances with the Contours or Temp's. Flip side's a tad better I suppose. Remember, there's no such thing as a bad soul record, it's just that some are better than others.

[Marc Forrest]

16 hours ago, neckender said:

I was at tim brown's place in the late 8ts/early 9ts (can't remember exactly when) and he told me that he'd just got one of the best unknowns for a long time and he played me the two sides covered up. It wasn't for sale; he just wanted me to hear it and i wasn't unimpressed!!   I assumed Martin K had found it, but i later heard that it had been discovered by Craig Moerer and sent to Anglo American.  Ill ask Craig to confirm this sometime, or someone else can.

True Mark, spoke to Tim the other day. Heres his story "I got this copy in a box of random 45s from Craig 1989, That was the first copy to have entered the UK. Started playing it as c/up. That was before Martin got hold of a copy and put it on his tape.";)

[Dylan]

That’s a good 45 to get in a random box of 45s.

 

i wonder how much that box cost and what else was in it....

[Hitsville Chalky]

On 2/8/2018 at 13:08, marty57 said:

Thanks for the response guys , yep other side mid tempo magic , 'did'nt know how to',   i've heard Ted Masey has a copy & might be playing  it Saturday at North Wings soul nite near Chesterfield, heres hoping , fitting tribute to Dennis me thinks .

Regret selling it but pleased ted as it and spins it 

[Theothertosspot]

Incorrect info 😖

Edited February 10, 2018 by theothertosspot
Amendment

[Julianb]

Going to give my 'issue' a spin at the  Soul Discharge Allnighter in Campillos on 3rd March

[Chalky]

Steve Smith has said on Facebook it was well after Stafford, late 80s early 90s.  I spoke to Andy Dyson, he reckons it was 90/91 when Tim Brown got his copy.  Andy began working for Tim in Jan 81 and it wasn't there then.  Koppell's came after that once he knew what it was.  Sam bought Tim's copy eventually and others such as Steve got it cut from a tape off kopek which must have been after Tim's turned up via Moerer if Andy's timeline is right.  Easy to get dates wrong by a year or two either side.

[Marty57]

Greatest respect to all you top guys for discovering all the great rare tunes over the years, i thank you all , ATB & Keep on keeping on .

[Ted Massey]

On 10/02/2018 at 11:44, Hitsville Chalky said:

Regret selling it but pleased ted as it and spins it 

Last night Chalks 

[Stanley]

which side ted ?

[Ted Massey]

Johnny, George was a request

[Guest]

This record seems to be one that some enjoy whilst others , including myself, think it poor. Dennis Edwards was great when in The Contours and The Temps but many of his solo sides are sub standard. Even some of The Temps albums where he is the predominate singer such as 'Wings of Love' are disappointing. I know he had one or two huge sellers but he's an artist who could have achieved more solo success given his  fine voice and stage presence.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Firecrest

[Guest Spain pete]

Maybe he should have joined a boy band and had a couple of no 1smash hits  , l think your talking tosh mate 👎🙅

52 minutes ago, Firecrest said:

This record seems to be one that some enjoy whilst others , including myself, think it poor. Dennis Edwards was great when in The Contours and The Temps but many of his solo sides are sub standard. Even some of The Temps albums where he is the predominate singer such as 'Wings of Love' are disappointing. I know he had one or two huge sellers but he's an artist who could have achieved more solo success given his  fine voice and stage presence.

 

[Frankie Crocker]

To enjoy this record at it’s best, you need to hear it in a dancehall, on a loud system, everyone up for it and in the mood to dance. This is not Ball Of Confusion, Papa Was A Rolling Stone etc, another Motown packaged tune on an oldies radio station. Neither is it James Brown screaming his head off demanding to be in the spotlight. This is Mr Cool, laid back, moonlighting in a Detroit studio with some of the best session men around - Dennis’ delivery is clear but not overpowering. Although a Detroit track, you wouldn’t know it because of the arrangement, the rat-a-tat-tat machine gun drumming which is pretty unique, the full-on backing singers, maybe even borrowed from Motown? Definitely one of the best tunes spun at the do’s promoted by Ion on Jermyn Street, London back in the 90’s - back then, it rattled the boards as a relatively new discovery, seldom played out due to rarity and was certainly appreciated by those in the know.

[Guest MBarrett]

I had never come across this expression "Johnnie on the Spot" outside of this record.

From the lyrics I get the gist of what it means.

Is it commonly used in the U.S.?

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by MBarrett

[Marty57]

3 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

To enjoy this record at it’s best, you need to hear it in a dancehall, on a loud system, everyone up for it and in the mood to dance. This is not Ball Of Confusion, Papa Was A Rolling Stone etc, another Motown packaged tune on an oldies radio station. Neither is it James Brown screaming his head off demanding to be in the spotlight. This is Mr Cool, laid back, moonlighting in a Detroit studio with some of the best session men around - Dennis’ delivery is clear but not overpowering. Although a Detroit track, you wouldn’t know it because of the arrangement, the rat-a-tat-tat machine gun drumming which is pretty unique, the full-on backing singers, maybe even borrowed from Motown? Definitely one of the best tunes spun at the do’s promoted by Ion on Jermyn Street, London back in the 90’s - back then, it rattled the boards as a relatively new discovery, seldom played out due to rarity and was certainly appreciated by those in the know.

I agree certainly sounded awesome played out Saturday nite , only the 3rd time i have heard it loud & proud , hope Ted plays it regular . Those that like it request it, yea , stop him playing them there R&B sounds 😁

[Marty57]

1 hour ago, MBarrett said:

I had never come across this expression "Johnnie on the Spot" outside of this record.

From the lyrics I get the gist of what it means.

Is it commonly used in the U.S.?

 

 

 

Is opposite to johnnie come lately ?

[Missing Link]

1 hour ago, MBarrett said:

I had never come across this expression "Johnnie on the Spot" outside of this record.

From the lyrics I get the gist of what it means.

Is it commonly used in the U.S.?

 

 

 

It looks as though it was:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/johnny-on-the-spot

[Guest MBarrett]

55 minutes ago, Missing Link said:

It looks as though it was:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/johnny-on-the-spot

Thanks. interesting that it says "dated." Makes me feel better that I never came across it elsewhere.

[Wheelsville1]

2 hours ago, marty57 said:

I agree certainly sounded awesome played out Saturday nite , only the 3rd time i have heard it loud & proud , hope Ted plays it regular . Those that like it request it, yea , stop him playing them there R&B sounds 😁

He wasn’t actually moonlighting as it was recorded before he joined the contours at Motown,however as far as the musicians are concerned that could be a different matter as I wouldn’t be surprised if members of the Funk Brothers are playing on it. 

[Chris Turnbull]

On 09/02/2018 at 17:05, neckender said:

I was at tim brown's place in the late 8ts/early 9ts (can't remember exactly when) and he told me that he'd just got one of the best unknowns for a long time and he played me the two sides covered up. It wasn't for sale; he just wanted me to hear it and i wasn't unimpressed!!   I assumed Martin K had found it, but i later heard that it had been discovered by Craig Moerer and sent to Anglo American.  Ill ask Craig to confirm this sometime, or someone else can.

Didn't you have a copy mid 90's Butch? Seem to remember you playing 'I didn't have to' at niters around that time i.e. Bretby