Possibly THE Rarest Soul 45?

[Pete S]

21 hours ago, garethx said:

The original post was factually incorrect for some reason. It's 4914, same as the ARP pressing.

When I originally posted it someone on Detroit Soul forum said I'd put the wrong matrix number and I couldn't read it so I took his word for it and changed it

[Pete S]

13 hours ago, jim g said:

And, the record is now safe in a bank safety deposit box until it is offered for sale, hence, I guess, no sound clip yet. The current owners FB page thanks all from the NS world for their support and seem genuine nice people. Good luck to them.

They are nice - they sent me a video clip of both sides playing but obviously recorded via a phone is not great quality

[Garethx]

2 hours ago, Pete S said:

When I originally posted it someone on Detroit Soul forum said I'd put the wrong matrix number and I couldn't read it so I took his word for it and changed it

Thanks for clearing this up Pete.

[Robbk]

13 hours ago, Pete S said:

When I originally posted it someone on Detroit Soul forum said I'd put the wrong matrix number and I couldn't read it so I took his word for it and changed it

Can you please give me the URL of the homepage of that forum?  I haven't heard of it.  I only know of Soulful Detroit Forum.

[Jaco]

3 hours ago, RobbK said:

Can you please give me the URL of the homepage of that forum?  I haven't heard of it.  I only know of Soulful Detroit Forum.

Think it’s a Facebook group, Robb

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, Jaco said:

Think it’s a Facebook group, Robb

Thanks.  I'll skip it, then.

[Pete S]

11 hours ago, RobbK said:

Can you please give me the URL of the homepage of that forum?  I haven't heard of it.  I only know of Soulful Detroit Forum.

That's the one I meant Robb, sorry

[Mgm 1251]

On 11/21/2017 at 17:02, jim g said:

this has appeared on JM facebook, so i guess this is his rare record previously mention that will be auctioned soon (i know it is slightly off topic, just posted it for reference)

He's put one up for auction now..

guess the Cute-Teens was just a decoy..,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Shinehead]

3 hours ago, MGM 1251 said:

He's put one up for auction now..

guess the Cute-Teens was just a decoy..,,,,,,,,,,,,

The only reason this will go for a tidy sum is its rarity , it is a shocking record in my opinion, pop crap.

You can hear why the powers that be did not waste this track on the Vandellas, Supremes etc.

Such a shame that they recorded it on the talents that were The Andantes. 

[Bo Diddley]

On 11/21/2017 at 17:02, jim g said:

this has appeared on JM facebook, so i guess this is his rare record previously mention that will be auctioned soon (i know it is slightly off topic, just posted it for reference)

Interesting to see Tim Brown has also got a copy of the Andantes up for auction ! 

[Guest noss]

I have noticed previously that JM and TB will have copies of the same record up for auction at the same time.

[Dylan]

2 or 3 super rare Motown all at once then.

Edited December 5, 2017 by dylan

[Robbk]

2 hours ago, shinehead said:

The only reason this will go for a tidy sum is its rarity , it is a shocking record in my opinion, pop crap.

You can hear why the powers that be did not waste this track on the Vandellas, Supremes etc.

Such a shame that they recorded it on the talents that were The Andantes. 

"Like A Nightmare" and "If You Were Mine" are "Pop Crap"?  Or did you mean The Cute-Teens' cuts were crap? - I'd agree with THAT.  But, The Cute Teens were Raynoma Gordy and her cousins, NOT The Andantes.  So, I'm confused.  I think The HDH composition, "Like A Nightmare" is a decent up-tempo Motown song, and would have been a regular-level Martha & Vandellas' mid 1964 release.  I can't imagine Motown releasing a version of either of those awful Cute-Teens' cuts, although, they DID release some Motown versions of pre-Motown songs written by Berry, Gwen, Anna and Billy Davis published by Bengal, Fidelity, and Ro-Gor Music.  But, those were much better songs.

[Guest noss]

2 hours ago, bo diddley said:

Interesting to see Tim Brown has also got a copy of the Andantes up for auction ! 

I wonder which one is the cleanest copy? Tim Brown says that the one for auction is the second copy he has had recently.

[Mgm 1251]

On 11/21/2017 at 19:07, MGM 1251 said:

Didn't Tim auction one not so long ago?....within the last six months?

 

On 11/21/2017 at 19:22, chalky said:

There was one on that auction house sale, was advertised on here. Louvain Demps also sold a copy. 

Seems to be a few about....

[Robbk]

4 minutes ago, MGM 1251 said:

 

Seems to be a few about....

I have a mint one, with Quality Control in green placed on it with a hand stamper.  Tom DePierro had one and there was one in the Motown Corp. Record File and one in the Jobete Music Co. Record File, and Ron Murphy had one, and I had seen one more (all during the early '70s.  So, I know that there were more pressed than the 6 usually made from the pressing plant test pressing run.  They were all yellow store stock.  I never saw nor heard of any white DJ issues.

[Simon T]

25 minutes ago, RobbK said:

I have a mint one, with Quality Control in green placed on it with a hand stamper.  Tom DePierro had one and there was one in the Motown Corp. Record File and one in the Jobete Music Co. Record File, and Ron Murphy had one, and I had seen one more (all during the early '70s.  So, I know that there were more pressed than the 6 usually made from the pressing plant test pressing run.  They were all yellow store stock.  I never saw nor heard of any white DJ issues.

Did any of them have a drill hole? I notice the one on Manship's does, but all the other scans I've seen do not.

[Mgm 1251]

30 minutes ago, RobbK said:

I have a mint one, with Quality Control in green placed on it with a hand stamper.  Tom DePierro had one and there was one in the Motown Corp. Record File and one in the Jobete Music Co. Record File, and Ron Murphy had one, and I had seen one more (all during the early '70s.  So, I know that there were more pressed than the 6 usually made from the pressing plant test pressing run.  They were all yellow store stock.  I never saw nor heard of any white DJ issues.

Interesting that there are no white label copies that you know of, yet normal procedure for all other VIP releases would have seen a white label first?...,

[Mgm 1251]

On 11/21/2017 at 19:07, MGM 1251 said:

Didn't Tim auction one not so long ago?....within the last six months?

 

On 11/21/2017 at 19:22, chalky said:

There was one on that auction house sale, was advertised on here. Louvain Demps also sold a copy. 

Special Auction Services of Newbury also auctioned one this year,along with a whole batch of other Motown Tests and Acetates...but for the life of me,I can't remember if it was a demo,test,acetate or issue...

Edited December 5, 2017 by MGM 1251

[Robbk]

13 minutes ago, simon t said:

Did any of them have a drill hole? I notice the one on Manship's does, but all the other scans I've seen do not.

No.  None of those I mentioned had a drill hole.  So, THAT copy is yet one more.  There must have been a special small press run for The Andantes, perhaps of 50 or 100?  Something like what was done for Raynoma Gordy's Little Iva Miracle record.

[Pete S]

3 hours ago, shinehead said:

The only reason this will go for a tidy sum is its rarity , it is a shocking record in my opinion, pop crap.

You can hear why the powers that be did not waste this track on the Vandellas, Supremes etc.

Such a shame that they recorded it on the talents that were The Andantes. 

It's not that rare though really is it, a few people were bidding on this copy in an auction 3 weeks or so back 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Pete S

[Simon T]

4 hours ago, RobbK said:

No.  None of those I mentioned had a drill hole.  So, THAT copy is yet one more.  There must have been a special small press run for The Andantes, perhaps of 50 or 100?  Something like what was done for Raynoma Gordy's Little Iva Miracle record.

 

4 hours ago, Pete S said:

It's not that rare though really is it, a few people were bidding on this copy in an auction 3 weeks or so back 

Oddly enough that copy also had a drill hole too and it was almost in exactly the same place, comparing the scans for the two auctions.

Edited December 5, 2017 by simon t
removal of supefluous info

[Wheelsville1]

4 hours ago, shinehead said:

The only reason this will go for a tidy sum is its rarity , it is a shocking record in my opinion, pop crap.

You can hear why the powers that be did not waste this track on the Vandellas, Supremes etc.

Such a shame that they recorded it on the talents that were The Andantes. 

I agree with you,I think it’s an awful dirgy row and does absolutely nothing for the Andantes what so ever.

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, MGM 1251 said:

Interesting that there are no white label copies that you know of, yet normal procedure for all other VIP releases would have seen a white label first?...,

As I stated above, I don't think The andantes' release was ever intended to be marketed or have sales.  Berry wanted The Andantes to always be available to sing backgrounds to sweeten most Motown releases.  So, he didn't want them having a hit record, and wanting to have a featurede singing career and want to go out on road tours.  He had no intention of putting a push behind marketing any release of theirs.  I think their VIP release was just a token "gift" to placate them, and received a "personalised" pressing level of only 50 or 100 records, as was done for Raynoma on her Little Iva Miracle record release.

[Andy Rix]

1 hour ago, MGM 1251 said:

 

Special Auction Services of Newbury also auctioned one this year,along with a whole batch of other Motown Tests and Acetates...but for the life of me,I can't remember if it was a demo,test,acetate or issue...

I think you'll find this, the Cute Teens, the acetates ... Brenda Holloway, Jimmy Ruffin. Marvelettes etc .. & recent Motown 45s are all out of the Newbury auction ... they all belonged to my mate Chris .. he also had the Little Iva (Miracle) so that might appear soon

Andy

[Mgm 1251]

Yes, I seem to remember there must have been as many as 20 to 25 lots, enough to make yours eyes pop........

[Dylan]

40 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

I think you'll find this, the Cute Teens, the acetates ... Brenda Holloway, Jimmy Ruffin. Marvelettes etc .. & recent Motown 45s are all out of the Newbury auction ... they all belonged to my mate Chris .. he also had the Little Iva (Miracle) so that might appear soon

Andy

Coming back to the market quickly then.

 

were they sold too cheap first time round or is it more a case of hopeful optimism that a good profit can be made ?

 

i have no idea how much these records sold for in the first aucion.  But it did seem a strange place to be selling those records when there are more established specialist record dealers who could probably get better prices.

[Andy Rix]

3 hours ago, RobbK said:

I have a mint one, with Quality Control in green placed on it with a hand stamper.  Tom DePierro had one and there was one in the Motown Corp. Record File and one in the Jobete Music Co. Record File, and Ron Murphy had one, and I had seen one more (all during the early '70s.  So, I know that there were more pressed than the 6 usually made from the pressing plant test pressing run.  They were all yellow store stock.  I never saw nor heard of any white DJ issues.

Does anybody remember the ?? Chris Savory fanzine .. was it Soul Cargo ? ... it had a photocopy of the Andantes on the front cover .. I'm sure it was a DJ copy but can't find it to check

Andy

[Simon T]

2 hours ago, Andy Rix said:

I think you'll find this, the Cute Teens, the acetates ... Brenda Holloway, Jimmy Ruffin. Marvelettes etc .. & recent Motown 45s are all out of the Newbury auction ... they all belonged to my mate Chris .. he also had the Little Iva (Miracle) so that might appear soon

Andy

I guessed that was CJ's auction, so is the Andantes the same one he got off IL around 30 years ago? Any thoughts about it having a drill hole? I hope it hasn't got 'PB' scratched in to run out! (just joking)

Edited December 5, 2017 by simon t

[Andy Rix]

2 minutes ago, simon t said:

I guessed that was CJ's auction, so is the Andantes the same one he got off IL around 30 years ago? Any thoughts about it having a drill hole? I hope it hasn't got 'PB' scratched in to run out! (just joking)

Spot on Simon

Andy

[Simon T]

Anyone want a Saundra Mallett -cheap!

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/56666362_saundra-mallett-the-vandellas-camel-walk-tamla-motown

Wish I'd spend my money on lots 0060 (Frank Wilson test presses x 57) and 0061 (Andantes x 131)

 

[Robbk]

2 hours ago, simon t said:

I guessed that was CJ's auction, so is the Andantes the same one he got off IL around 30 years ago? Any thoughts about it having a drill hole? I hope it hasn't got 'PB' scratched in to run out! (just joking)

So, there WAS a DJ issue!  That means that it wasn't just a "vanity" press run, but, perhaps, a small "test" run, just in Detroit, to satisfy The Andantes that it was "officially" released, but, quickly called back, as was done with Oma Heard's VIP single.

[Mick Holdsworth]

15 minutes ago, RobbK said:

So, there WAS a DJ issue!  That means that it wasn't just a "vanity" press run, but, perhaps, a small "test" run, just in Detroit, to satisfy The Andantes that it was "officially" released, but, quickly called back, as was done with Oma Heard's VIP single.

That's the yellow image from further up this post, converted to greyscale, and the Audition etc. typed over.

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

That's the yellow image from further up this post, converted to greyscale, and the Audition etc. typed over.

I see now.  The "audition copy" is darker and sharper.  So, maybe it was just a vanity press run.

[timthemod]

If you click on the link you can scroll through pictures of all the acetates auctioned by Special Auction Services
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/special-auction-services/catalogue-id-srspe10190/lot-1d163574-53c1-473e-a214-a70f00b52840

 

[Wheelsville1]

10 hours ago, RobbK said:

I see now.  The "audition copy" is darker and sharper.  So, maybe it was just a vanity press run.

It looks made up to me,Audition copy not for sale, is nothing like the rest of the lettering on the label. 

[Shinehead]

21 hours ago, RobbK said:

"Like A Nightmare" and "If You Were Mine" are "Pop Crap"?  Or did you mean The Cute-Teens' cuts were crap? - I'd agree with THAT.  But, The Cute Teens were Raynoma Gordy and her cousins, NOT The Andantes.  So, I'm confused.  I think The HDH composition, "Like A Nightmare" is a decent up-tempo Motown song, and would have been a regular-level Martha & Vandellas' mid 1964 release.  I can't imagine Motown releasing a version of either of those awful Cute-Teens' cuts, although, they DID release some Motown versions of pre-Motown songs written by Berry, Gwen, Anna and Billy Davis published by Bengal, Fidelity, and Ro-Gor Music.  But, those were much better songs.

'' Like  A Nightmare '' to my ears is crap '' If You Were Mine '' is a nice track .  Those are my opinion only if you think otherwise great  

 

[Mace]

19 hours ago, simon t said:

 

Oddly enough that copy also had a drill hole too and it was almost in exactly the same place, comparing the scans for the two auctions.

Also both have a small mark on label just to top right of P on V.I.P........definitely same copy IMO

[Wheelsville1]

13 minutes ago, shinehead said:

'' Like  A Nightmare '' to my ears is crap '' If You Were Mine '' is a nice track .  Those are my opinion only if you think otherwise great  

 

Once again,how anyone can think that Like a Nightmare is a good recording Is beyond me,in fact nightmare is quite fitting. 

[Pete S]

18 hours ago, RobbK said:

So, there WAS a DJ issue!  That means that it wasn't just a "vanity" press run, but, perhaps, a small "test" run, just in Detroit, to satisfy The Andantes that it was "officially" released, but, quickly called back, as was done with Oma Heard's VIP single.

That picture is a fake

[Jim G]

2 hours ago, Pete S said:

That picture is a fake

Correct as fake as fake tits

[Mike]

On 12/5/2017 at 21:27, simon t said:

I guessed that was CJ's auction, so is the Andantes the same one he got off IL around 30 years ago? Any thoughts about it having a drill hole? I hope it hasn't got 'PB' scratched in to run out! (just joking)

 

On 12/6/2017 at 19:22, Pete S said:

That picture is a fake

 

22 hours ago, jim g said:

Correct as fake as fake tits

so bad(obvious) that its gotta be a 'joke' @simon t yep?

Edited December 7, 2017 by mike

[Mgm 1251]

L@@Ks like EBay fodder,

"vendor has 8 copies for auction"

"mint and unplayed"

"ships from U.K.".......

[Pete S]

Better quality shot of the Frank Wilson matrix

 

[Mgm 1251]

2 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Better quality shot of the Frank Wilson matrix

 

That's cracker...do you think you'll be able to pick up the NashMat stamp as clear as that?

[Pete S]

Just now, MGM 1251 said:

That's cracker...do you think you'll be able to pick up the NashMat stamp as clear as that?

If only, my friend has so far sent me a dozen and she just can't get it in focus, I'll show you

 

[Mgm 1251]

HaHa,cheers....there is no denying that it's there....

[Pete S]

This is the audio taken directly from the Frank Wilson test pressing.

Sorry if against rules Mike but it is quite an important recording so am posting it for 'historical' purposes

01 Do I Love You (Indeed I Do).mp3

[Pete S]

If anyone needs to contact the seller for any reason, here's the details

 dwdm1977@gmail.com or my store page Melodies & Memories on facebook if you can add it. If I need to be contacted.

[Guest Denise Marie]

On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 08:27, mshoals said:

For Southern Plastics it's actually (client) number 5 (instead of S), which is indeed present in the dead wax (see first post).

 

 

 

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 11:58, WoodButcher said:

Still haven't got an I.D. from the thumbprints yet though ... 

 

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 11:58, WoodButcher said:

Still haven't got an I.D. from the thumbprints yet though ... 

We wear gloves every minute we leave the house now.