Jackie Lee - Darkest Days - Boot Or Genuine

[Ray Copley]

Hi

I've had his record years and always believed it to be original, I have just been told it's a boot but can't find anything to confirm this record as ever been booted on this label design.

I can see by looking at other past sales and images that this copy seem to have a smaller size lettering. And as I've had it years it's not a recent one where people can print labels to look the same.

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards - Ray

 

[Swifty]

I'm no expert Roy but it looks to have had the deletion Gold ink stamp that a lot of ABC stuff had so they couldn't be sold as new

looks like the Gold ink has been felt tipped over ? I would've thought it was an original mate but as I say I'm no expert

 

Swifty

[Ray Copley]

11 minutes ago, SWIFTY said:

I'm no expert Roy but it looks to have had the deletion Gold ink stamp that a lot of ABC stuff had so they couldn't be sold as new

looks like the Gold ink has been felt tipped over ? I would've thought it was an original mate but as I say I'm no expert

 

Swifty

Hi Swifty

Black felt pen is what I did to cover up were a label had been !

[Soundsokeh]

here is a scan of my copy and you can see there are several differences , whatever the outcome

 

edit , now known to be this :- 1968 press delta number 73393

Edited October 16, 2017 by soundsOKEH

[TOAD]

it came out twice

[Chalky]

it looks like the 70s reissue what is in the run out?

[Ray Copley]

Hi Chalky

Were would I find information about a 70's reissue.

I have search loads of previous sales etc and can't find a scan, picture of this, I would have thought if it had been reissued there would have been more of that than the originals !

 

[Chalky]

11 minutes ago, Ray Copley said:

Hi Chalky

Were would I find information about a 70's reissue.

I have search loads of previous sales etc and can't find a scan, picture of this, I would have thought if it had been reissued there would have been more of that than the originals !

 

1968 press delta number 73393

1971 press delta number 85897

The font for the artist and title on the 68 press is larger as in soundsokeh post

Edited October 16, 2017 by chalky

[Pete S]

The 1971 version must have been some kind of custom pressing as there's no way ABC would have reissued this obscure flop single for no reason

[Chalky]

1 minute ago, Pete S said:

The 1971 version must have been some kind of custom pressing as there's no way ABC would have reissued this obscure flop single for no reason

I would imagine done due to UK demand?

[Pete S]

1 minute ago, chalky said:

I would imagine done due to UK demand?

Yes, they'd just found out what it was after it was covered up by Carl Dene (according to legend)

[Soundsokeh]

42 minutes ago, chalky said:

1968 press delta number 73393

1971 press delta number 85897

The font for the artist and title on the 68 press is larger as in soundsokeh post

I can confirm that mine is 73393 , thanks

[Kegsy]

1 hour ago, Pete S said:

The 1971 version must have been some kind of custom pressing as there's no way ABC would have reissued this obscure flop single for no reason

Maybe someone in the UK just ordered some and ABC pressed them up using new plates, in the same way as Carstairs issues were pressed up for Global in Manchester, using the same plates though.

[Pete S]

2 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

Maybe someone in the UK just ordered some and ABC pressed them up using new plates, in the same way as Carstairs issues were pressed up for Global in Manchester, using the same plates though.

Yeah thats exactly what I meant...custom pressing for the UK

[Patto]

Ray is yours vinyl or styrene.It looks vinyl in your pic.Does it have the delta matrix.There are original vinyl copies of Eddie Holman--I surrender with the smaller writing credits.

[Ray Copley]

Hi Patto

It's vinyl but can't give matrix as it's on it's way back to me from someone who bought it but don't want it thinking it's a 70 reissue !

 

[Patto]

Just now, Ray Copley said:

Hi Patto

It's vinyl but can't give matrix as it's on it's way back to me from someone who bought it but don't want it thinking it's a 70 reissue !

 

OK Mate but if this later press 85897 is ment to be on styrene then that rules yours out as a reissue i would have thought.like i say there are different sizes of credits on the Eddie Holman vinyls that are all original

[Guest]

I have the first press and I had the second press.  They were both on styrene. 

Anglo-American had the second press in quantity, about 10/15 years ago.

[Ray Copley]

Anyone got photos of this second press they could share !

[Garethx]

I must say that the first scan above looks very much like a legitimate ABC press from their factory on Long Island NY, which was called True Sound. 

It may be the case that the only first pressing of 1968 was done on styrene at Monarch with delta number 73393 but it's unusual for a nationwide operation like ABC to produce only one regional press of a release. 

When I first saw the scan my initial impression, like Swifty's, was that the black ink in the top portion was to cover up ABC's telltale deletion mark, a dab of gold paint.

Deadwax markings will tell a lot of the story, but I would say that whatever this is it is not a bootleg. A legitimate pressing from a reorder from 1971 sounds plausible. The fact that it's on vinyl and not styrene alone makes it a pretty nice way to own Darkest Days.

 

[Shinehead]

An earlier topic here from 2007 .

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/forums/topic/61633-jackie-leedarkest-days-abc-again/ 

 

 

[Ray Copley]

Anyone got photo's or scans of the 1971 press delta number 85897 they can share with us.

[Dave Pinch]

Was it played as early as 1970 into 71... Defo legit from the info gareth X gives ... Loads of abc look like this.... girl watcher is another example..... Must be rarer than the 68 orig but probably half the value

[Kegsy]

1 hour ago, dave pinch said:

Was it played as early as 1970 into 71.

It sure was, probably at the Wheel, definitely at the L'Ambassador in Bradford.

[Tlscapital]

On 16 octobre 2017 at 23:28, Ray Copley said:

Anyone got photos of this second press they could share !

I wanted to ask the same but apparently it's only by checking the matrix that one can tell the difference so likely a bit useless... 

[Ray Copley]

As anyone else got a copy with small text they can post

[Ray Copley]

Hi All

Got the record back and the matrix reads:    4855  z - DCT - 2

which is nether of the matrix's people have mentioned.

Still can't find anyone with the same copy and if it had been booted there would be loads of them.

[Ray Copley]

The dilemma is over,

Just had it confirmed it's an Original 1968 East Coast Vinyl Press.

Which it it's rarest format just little a shame about the label damage !

Edited October 24, 2017 by Ray Copley

[Tlscapital]

Unless there is a white promo to it...

[Jez Jones]

10 minutes ago, tlscapital said:

Unless there is a white promo to it...

Yes...few and far between those are methinks

[Tlscapital]

3 minutes ago, jez jones said:

Yes...few and far between those are methinks

Never seen one, so the hypothesis that it exist is thin...

[Jez Jones]

1 hour ago, tlscapital said:

Never seen one, so the hypothesis that it exist is thin...

Am sure there are a couple 'out there'.......can the offending owners step forward lol :-)

[Geeselad]

12 minutes ago, jez jones said:

Am sure there are a couple 'out there'.......can the offending owners step forward lol :-)

maybe its the same as capitol 66 demos? Did abs issue demos in 68?

[Tlscapital]

19 minutes ago, geeselad said:

maybe its the same as capitol 66 demos? Did abs issue demos in 68?

Yes and I don't know of any ABC who didn't got a promo release. Jackie's 'darkest' got a promo styrene West Coast release. But what about an East Coast one ? Maybe none !

[Guest noss]

Judging by the numbers of sold copies on Popsike, it makes me wonder how rare a record it really is.

https://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=jackie+lee+darkest+days&pagenum=1&incldescr=&sortord=&thumbs=&currsel=&endfrom=&endthru=&sdc=&ipp=100

[Ray Copley]

That's what I can't understand !

I can't find another scan or sale of one the same even the one and only one on Popsike that states the same matrix numbers is not the same, it as a different text on label to mine and the Popsike one looks like styrene to me:

See scan of my b side : 

 

Popsike Link :  https://www.popsike.com/php/detaildatar.php?itemnr=252816556662

Popsike Scan:

Edited October 24, 2017 by Ray Copley

[Geeselad]

1 hour ago, noss said:

Judging by the numbers of sold copies on Popsike, it makes me wonder how rare a record it really is.

https://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=jackie+lee+darkest+days&pagenum=1&incldescr=&sortord=&thumbs=&currsel=&endfrom=&endthru=&sdc=&ipp=100

Same could be said of loads of tunes that go for double the value of this. 

[Guest noss]

56 minutes ago, geeselad said:

Same could be said of loads of tunes that go for double the value of this. 

Indeed. Also there are some very rare records that go for resonabl;e anmounts. Popsike does seem to confirm that this pressing is harder to find than the styrene one though.

[Pete S]

5 hours ago, tlscapital said:

Yes and I don't know of any ABC who didn't got a promo release. Jackie's 'darkest' got a promo styrene West Coast release. But what about an East Coast one ? Maybe none !

Can't remember the artist but there's a really rare solo girl record on ABC which is so bad quality that it can't be played but would have been great - I don't think there's a demo of it, only an issue which must surely have been withdrawn

[Andy Rix]

59 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Can't remember the artist but there's a really rare solo girl record on ABC which is so bad quality that it can't be played but would have been great - I don't think there's a demo of it, only an issue which must surely have been withdrawn

Is that the Dorothy Moore and Dolletts 45 .. Aka The Poppies .... I'm A Lonely Girl .. Terrible pressing and bad quality sound

awesome previously unissued version by Gloria Edwards on that Crazy Cajun CD

ANDY

[Robbk]

On 10/17/2017 at 04:08, garethx said:

I must say that the first scan above looks very much like a legitimate ABC press from their factory on Long Island NY, which was called True Sound. 

It may be the case that the only first pressing of 1968 was done on styrene at Monarch with delta number 73393 but it's unusual for a nationwide operation like ABC to produce only one regional press of a release. 

When I first saw the scan my initial impression, like Swifty's, was that the black ink in the top portion was to cover up ABC's telltale deletion mark, a dab of gold paint.

Deadwax markings will tell a lot of the story, but I would say that whatever this is it is not a bootleg. A legitimate pressing from a reorder from 1971 sounds plausible. The fact that it's on vinyl and not styrene alone makes it a pretty nice way to own Darkest Days.

 

So unusual, that I wouldn't believe it.  Swifty's certainly looks legitimate.  I would guess there was an original styrene Monarch release for The West, and an East Coast vinyl pressing, and likely, a Midwest vinyl pressing, as well, EVEN if the record had a relatively small press run, and wasn't pushed much by ABC.

[Garethx]

On 10/24/2017 at 10:51, Ray Copley said:

The dilemma is over,

Just had it confirmed it's an Original 1968 East Coast Vinyl Press.

Which it it's rarest format just little a shame about the label damage !

Glad this got resolved Ray and glad my hunch about it being completely legit has been confirmed. Nice record to have!

 

[Ray Copley]

Cheers Gareth !

Still can't find anyone else with same label & matrix numbers which seems strange !