Ray Copley Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Hi I've had his record years and always believed it to be original, I have just been told it's a boot but can't find anything to confirm this record as ever been booted on this label design. I can see by looking at other past sales and images that this copy seem to have a smaller size lettering. And as I've had it years it's not a recent one where people can print labels to look the same. Any help would be appreciated. Regards - Ray
Swifty Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 I'm no expert Roy but it looks to have had the deletion Gold ink stamp that a lot of ABC stuff had so they couldn't be sold as new looks like the Gold ink has been felt tipped over ? I would've thought it was an original mate but as I say I'm no expert Swifty
Ray Copley Posted October 16, 2017 Author Posted October 16, 2017 On 16/10/2017 at 09:30, SWIFTY said: I'm no expert Roy but it looks to have had the deletion Gold ink stamp that a lot of ABC stuff had so they couldn't be sold as new looks like the Gold ink has been felt tipped over ? I would've thought it was an original mate but as I say I'm no expert Swifty Expand Hi Swifty Black felt pen is what I did to cover up were a label had been !
Soundsokeh Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) here is a scan of my copy and you can see there are several differences , whatever the outcome edit , now known to be this :- 1968 press delta number 73393 Edited October 16, 2017 by soundsOKEH 2
Chalky Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 it looks like the 70s reissue what is in the run out?
Ray Copley Posted October 16, 2017 Author Posted October 16, 2017 Hi Chalky Were would I find information about a 70's reissue. I have search loads of previous sales etc and can't find a scan, picture of this, I would have thought if it had been reissued there would have been more of that than the originals !
Chalky Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) On 16/10/2017 at 11:34, Ray Copley said: Hi Chalky Were would I find information about a 70's reissue. I have search loads of previous sales etc and can't find a scan, picture of this, I would have thought if it had been reissued there would have been more of that than the originals ! Expand 1968 press delta number 73393 1971 press delta number 85897 The font for the artist and title on the 68 press is larger as in soundsokeh post Edited October 16, 2017 by chalky
Pete S Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 The 1971 version must have been some kind of custom pressing as there's no way ABC would have reissued this obscure flop single for no reason
Chalky Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 On 16/10/2017 at 11:47, Pete S said: The 1971 version must have been some kind of custom pressing as there's no way ABC would have reissued this obscure flop single for no reason Expand I would imagine done due to UK demand?
Pete S Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 On 16/10/2017 at 11:48, chalky said: I would imagine done due to UK demand? Expand Yes, they'd just found out what it was after it was covered up by Carl Dene (according to legend)
Soundsokeh Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 On 16/10/2017 at 11:46, chalky said: 1968 press delta number 73393 1971 press delta number 85897 The font for the artist and title on the 68 press is larger as in soundsokeh post Expand I can confirm that mine is 73393 , thanks
Kegsy Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 On 16/10/2017 at 11:47, Pete S said: The 1971 version must have been some kind of custom pressing as there's no way ABC would have reissued this obscure flop single for no reason Expand Maybe someone in the UK just ordered some and ABC pressed them up using new plates, in the same way as Carstairs issues were pressed up for Global in Manchester, using the same plates though.
Pete S Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 On 16/10/2017 at 12:59, Kegsy said: Maybe someone in the UK just ordered some and ABC pressed them up using new plates, in the same way as Carstairs issues were pressed up for Global in Manchester, using the same plates though. Expand Yeah thats exactly what I meant...custom pressing for the UK
Patto Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Ray is yours vinyl or styrene.It looks vinyl in your pic.Does it have the delta matrix.There are original vinyl copies of Eddie Holman--I surrender with the smaller writing credits.
Ray Copley Posted October 16, 2017 Author Posted October 16, 2017 Hi Patto It's vinyl but can't give matrix as it's on it's way back to me from someone who bought it but don't want it thinking it's a 70 reissue !
Patto Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 On 16/10/2017 at 15:22, Ray Copley said: Hi Patto It's vinyl but can't give matrix as it's on it's way back to me from someone who bought it but don't want it thinking it's a 70 reissue ! Expand OK Mate but if this later press 85897 is ment to be on styrene then that rules yours out as a reissue i would have thought.like i say there are different sizes of credits on the Eddie Holman vinyls that are all original
Guest Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 I have the first press and I had the second press. They were both on styrene. Anglo-American had the second press in quantity, about 10/15 years ago.
Ray Copley Posted October 16, 2017 Author Posted October 16, 2017 Anyone got photos of this second press they could share !
Garethx Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 I must say that the first scan above looks very much like a legitimate ABC press from their factory on Long Island NY, which was called True Sound. It may be the case that the only first pressing of 1968 was done on styrene at Monarch with delta number 73393 but it's unusual for a nationwide operation like ABC to produce only one regional press of a release. When I first saw the scan my initial impression, like Swifty's, was that the black ink in the top portion was to cover up ABC's telltale deletion mark, a dab of gold paint. Deadwax markings will tell a lot of the story, but I would say that whatever this is it is not a bootleg. A legitimate pressing from a reorder from 1971 sounds plausible. The fact that it's on vinyl and not styrene alone makes it a pretty nice way to own Darkest Days. 2
Shinehead Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 An earlier topic here from 2007 . https://www.soul-source.co.uk/forums/topic/61633-jackie-leedarkest-days-abc-again/
Ray Copley Posted October 17, 2017 Author Posted October 17, 2017 Anyone got photo's or scans of the 1971 press delta number 85897 they can share with us.
Dave Pinch Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Was it played as early as 1970 into 71... Defo legit from the info gareth X gives ... Loads of abc look like this.... girl watcher is another example..... Must be rarer than the 68 orig but probably half the value
Kegsy Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 On 18/10/2017 at 07:32, dave pinch said: Was it played as early as 1970 into 71. Expand It sure was, probably at the Wheel, definitely at the L'Ambassador in Bradford.
Tlscapital Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 On 16/10/2017 at 21:28, Ray Copley said: Anyone got photos of this second press they could share ! Expand I wanted to ask the same but apparently it's only by checking the matrix that one can tell the difference so likely a bit useless...
Ray Copley Posted October 21, 2017 Author Posted October 21, 2017 As anyone else got a copy with small text they can post
Ray Copley Posted October 24, 2017 Author Posted October 24, 2017 Hi All Got the record back and the matrix reads: 4855 z - DCT - 2 which is nether of the matrix's people have mentioned. Still can't find anyone with the same copy and if it had been booted there would be loads of them.
Ray Copley Posted October 24, 2017 Author Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) The dilemma is over, Just had it confirmed it's an Original 1968 East Coast Vinyl Press. Which it it's rarest format just little a shame about the label damage ! Edited October 24, 2017 by Ray Copley 1
Jez Jones Posted October 24, 2017 Posted October 24, 2017 On 24/10/2017 at 09:56, tlscapital said: Unless there is a white promo to it... Expand Yes...few and far between those are methinks
Tlscapital Posted October 24, 2017 Posted October 24, 2017 On 24/10/2017 at 10:07, jez jones said: Yes...few and far between those are methinks Expand Never seen one, so the hypothesis that it exist is thin...
Jez Jones Posted October 24, 2017 Posted October 24, 2017 On 24/10/2017 at 10:15, tlscapital said: Never seen one, so the hypothesis that it exist is thin... Expand Am sure there are a couple 'out there'.......can the offending owners step forward lol :-)
Geeselad Posted October 24, 2017 Posted October 24, 2017 On 24/10/2017 at 11:23, jez jones said: Am sure there are a couple 'out there'.......can the offending owners step forward lol :-) Expand maybe its the same as capitol 66 demos? Did abs issue demos in 68?
Tlscapital Posted October 24, 2017 Posted October 24, 2017 On 24/10/2017 at 11:34, geeselad said: maybe its the same as capitol 66 demos? Did abs issue demos in 68? Expand Yes and I don't know of any ABC who didn't got a promo release. Jackie's 'darkest' got a promo styrene West Coast release. But what about an East Coast one ? Maybe none !
Guest noss Posted October 24, 2017 Posted October 24, 2017 Judging by the numbers of sold copies on Popsike, it makes me wonder how rare a record it really is. https://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=jackie+lee+darkest+days&pagenum=1&incldescr=&sortord=&thumbs=&currsel=&endfrom=&endthru=&sdc=&ipp=100
Ray Copley Posted October 24, 2017 Author Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) That's what I can't understand ! I can't find another scan or sale of one the same even the one and only one on Popsike that states the same matrix numbers is not the same, it as a different text on label to mine and the Popsike one looks like styrene to me: See scan of my b side : Popsike Link : https://www.popsike.com/php/detaildatar.php?itemnr=252816556662 Popsike Scan: Edited October 24, 2017 by Ray Copley
Geeselad Posted October 24, 2017 Posted October 24, 2017 On 24/10/2017 at 15:09, noss said: Judging by the numbers of sold copies on Popsike, it makes me wonder how rare a record it really is. https://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=jackie+lee+darkest+days&pagenum=1&incldescr=&sortord=&thumbs=&currsel=&endfrom=&endthru=&sdc=&ipp=100 Expand Same could be said of loads of tunes that go for double the value of this.
Guest noss Posted October 24, 2017 Posted October 24, 2017 On 24/10/2017 at 17:00, geeselad said: Same could be said of loads of tunes that go for double the value of this. Expand Indeed. Also there are some very rare records that go for resonabl;e anmounts. Popsike does seem to confirm that this pressing is harder to find than the styrene one though.
Pete S Posted October 24, 2017 Posted October 24, 2017 On 24/10/2017 at 12:01, tlscapital said: Yes and I don't know of any ABC who didn't got a promo release. Jackie's 'darkest' got a promo styrene West Coast release. But what about an East Coast one ? Maybe none ! Expand Can't remember the artist but there's a really rare solo girl record on ABC which is so bad quality that it can't be played but would have been great - I don't think there's a demo of it, only an issue which must surely have been withdrawn
Andy Rix Posted October 24, 2017 Posted October 24, 2017 On 24/10/2017 at 18:01, Pete S said: Can't remember the artist but there's a really rare solo girl record on ABC which is so bad quality that it can't be played but would have been great - I don't think there's a demo of it, only an issue which must surely have been withdrawn Expand Is that the Dorothy Moore and Dolletts 45 .. Aka The Poppies .... I'm A Lonely Girl .. Terrible pressing and bad quality sound awesome previously unissued version by Gloria Edwards on that Crazy Cajun CD ANDY
Robbk Posted October 24, 2017 Posted October 24, 2017 On 17/10/2017 at 11:08, garethx said: I must say that the first scan above looks very much like a legitimate ABC press from their factory on Long Island NY, which was called True Sound. It may be the case that the only first pressing of 1968 was done on styrene at Monarch with delta number 73393 but it's unusual for a nationwide operation like ABC to produce only one regional press of a release. When I first saw the scan my initial impression, like Swifty's, was that the black ink in the top portion was to cover up ABC's telltale deletion mark, a dab of gold paint. Deadwax markings will tell a lot of the story, but I would say that whatever this is it is not a bootleg. A legitimate pressing from a reorder from 1971 sounds plausible. The fact that it's on vinyl and not styrene alone makes it a pretty nice way to own Darkest Days. Expand So unusual, that I wouldn't believe it. Swifty's certainly looks legitimate. I would guess there was an original styrene Monarch release for The West, and an East Coast vinyl pressing, and likely, a Midwest vinyl pressing, as well, EVEN if the record had a relatively small press run, and wasn't pushed much by ABC.
Garethx Posted October 25, 2017 Posted October 25, 2017 On 24/10/2017 at 09:51, Ray Copley said: The dilemma is over, Just had it confirmed it's an Original 1968 East Coast Vinyl Press. Which it it's rarest format just little a shame about the label damage ! Expand Glad this got resolved Ray and glad my hunch about it being completely legit has been confirmed. Nice record to have! 1
Ray Copley Posted October 25, 2017 Author Posted October 25, 2017 Cheers Gareth ! Still can't find anyone else with same label & matrix numbers which seems strange !
Recommended Posts
Get involved with Soul Source
Add your comments now
Join Soul Source
A free & easy soul music affair!
Join Soul Source now!Log in to Soul Source
Jump right back in!
Log in now!