Poll: Russ V Richard - Wigan 1973-81

[Mike]

This weeks poll is a 'Highlander' - there can only be one' affair

all you have to do is select out of the two who you would consider to be the 'last one standing' if there was ever a wigan dj highlander style gathering!

the only context to the poll is the period is  Wigan Casino 1973-81

a simple choice Russ or Richard ?

meant to be a light hearted affair

just choose which one of the two djs you would nominate to be the 'last one standing'

feel free to expand, discuss, argue your reasons, views and such below

over to you...

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by source news

[Guest Spain pete]

Think Russ would soon run out of records to play , dickie all day long  ✌🎶🎶🎶

[Pete S]

From 1973 to 1978 Russ and Richard can go toe to toe, after that there'e no contest but people tend to forget that Russ had everything and also played so many records first.  I doubt Russ will get any votes as Richard's 60's newies from 79 to 81 saved the scene but before everyone starts going on about The Wigan Joker, just check how many DJ's played My Hearts Symphony and Papa Ooh Mow Mow

[Chalky]

Anyone got a list of what Russ had

[Pete S]

I could probably copy some track listings off tapes I recorded if any good?

[Pete S]

Off the top of my head Russ only plays included Ellusions, Gloria & T Airas, Art Gentry, thats just off one tape
Magicians sweet magic as well - first to play Judy Street - Tobi Legend

Edited October 4, 2017 by Pete S

[Monny1916]

As much as I love these polls I also feel sorry for two icons of our scene who are subjected to this gladatorial dog fight why can't we all be happy with what everyone has given us ...after being taken to the torch at 15 my life was charged when it closed it felt as it was taken away until Wigan ... Train journey .10 blues.beachcomer .pound in hand .,.heaven ....we all know the outcome of this poll but without Russ there maybe no POLL

 

 

[Chalky]

The poll on the other hand might paint Russ in a different light as he just seems to be remembered for the pop rubbish 

[Monny1916]

When I was young lad growing up I listened to the troggs the move Edison light house the monkeys the who four tops stylistics temptations Issac Supremes who were considered pop music my point is without Russ we may well be discussing them instead

[Kegsy]

Russ was the first to play Dean Parrish Im On My Way, how do I know this ?, because I lent him it to play, I have to admit though, that it was Swish who brought the record to my attention. 

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Pete S said:

Off the top of my head Russ only plays included Ellusions, Gloria & T Airas, Art Gentry, thats just off one tape
Magicians sweet magic as well - first to play Judy Street - Tobi Legend

I read somewhere that Judy S and Tobi were both known and had been played before Wigan?  Either way the few you mentioned are top class but I'd need some more convincing about his ability to go toe to toe with Richard on the newies front.

Edited October 4, 2017 by chalky

[Pete S]

23 minutes ago, chalky said:

I read somewhere that Judy S and Tobi were both known and had been played before Wigan?  Either way the few you mentioned are top class but I'd need some more convincing about his ability to go toe to toe with Richard on the newies front.

I can't prove anything if someone says something to the contrary.

[Peter99]

1 hour ago, monny1916 said:

As much as I love these polls I also feel sorry for two icons of our scene who are subjected to this gladatorial dog fight why can't we all be happy with what everyone has given us ...after being taken to the torch at 15 my life was charged when it closed it felt as it was taken away until Wigan ... Train journey .10 blues.beachcomer .pound in hand .,.heaven ....we all know the outcome of this poll but without Russ there maybe no POLL

 

 

Its just a bit of fun.

 

[Peter99]

Richard all day long for me.

Pete

[Guest Spain pete]

Thought this thread was about last man standing , surely its all about forward thinking and outside the box , on that score it's got to be Richard. and that's not being detrimental to Russ, both broke records that needed breaking , but some more than others, other wise the music dies ,familiarity breeds contempt ✌🎶🎶

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, monny1916 said:

When I was young lad growing up I listened to the troggs the move Edison light house the monkeys the who four tops stylistics temptations Issac Supremes who were considered pop music my point is without Russ we may well be discussing them instead

Northern Soul would have been there without Russ, might not have been at Wigan but it would have been there.

[Shsdave]

2 hours ago, chalky said:

I read somewhere that Judy S and Tobi were both known and had been played before Wigan?  Either way the few you mentioned are top class but I'd need some more convincing about his ability to go toe to toe with Richard on the newies front.

Thought I read Tobi L was played & dropped at Blackpool Mecca, even then I think it was only hearsay as in " I'm sure I heard at Mecca"

[Harry Crosby]

2 hours ago, Kegsy said:

Russ was the first to play Dean Parrish Im On My Way, how do I know this ?, because I lent him it to play, I have to admit though, that it was Swish who brought the record to my attention. 

My thoughts also, sure the story is Swish bought it from Leeds  

[maslar]

Well I voted for RS due to my limited time at the Casino (June 1980 to the last but one night in October 81). Thats primarilly down to the quality of his "new"  60s plays. To be honest  I found his 70s stuff generally just ok (there are a couple of exceptions that  are very good). And if I'm being really honest I think the general  standard of "modern" sounds played then - which some seem to the get really enthuisiastic about was pretty average. There was much better contemporary (albeit  more commercial) soul  music being played at the time, some of it in the pop charts .  Tailgate played by RW at that time is better than most of the more obscure 70s outings on RS playlist. 

But I'm not sure what criteria is being used in the "last man standing". Because even though I  voted to RS due to my limited experience - the reality is that RWs name is synonymous  with Wigan Casino.  He is Wigan Casino personified . So that's got to count for something?

Edited October 5, 2017 by maslar
typo

[Hooker1951]

There was northern soul a long time before RW AND THE CASINO and I'm from Wigan 10 years before in a fashion as I've stated before I worked at the Casino as a doorman 3 years before Russ appeared and NS was being played then and umpteen clubs in Wigan and other NW , NE, Midland towns so to state that there would have been no NS without Russ is Ludicrous the music is bigger than any DJ or promoter I started my journey into soul in 1963 and it was alive and kicking then, I know the true story of the Casino, IE And the allnighters and it's not all like you read in the book there were suggestions made to Gerry Marshall about putting all nighters on made well before Russ and Mike Walker because I made them and I'm not trying to change history  just telling you the way it was but that's another story

keep calm keep happy

ML

PS Russ played his part but so did everybody else who promoted and danced and listened to the music like I've said before there is a a hell of a lot of forgotten heroes with no egos who should be remembered DJ,s promoters and punters alike

[Guest Spain pete]

Sure it was alive and kicking before the casino, clubs down south as well you know, like the flamingo in Soho laid the foundations for the whole northern thing  ✌🎶🎶

1 hour ago, Hooker1951 said:

There was northern soul a long time before RW AND THE CASINO and I'm from Wigan 10 years before in a fashion as I've stated before I worked at the Casino as a doorman 3 years before Russ appeared and NS was being played then and umpteen clubs in Wigan and other NW , NE, Midland towns so to state that there would have been no NS without Russ is Ludicrous the music is bigger than any DJ or promoter I started my journey into soul in 1963 and it was alive and kicking then, I know the true story of the Casino, IE And the allnighters and it's not all like you read in the book there were suggestions made to Gerry Marshall about putting all nighters on made well before Russ and Mike Walker because I made them and I'm not trying to change history  just telling you the way it was but that's another story

keep calm keep happy

ML

PS Russ played his part but so did everybody else who promoted and danced and listened to the music like I've said before there is a a hell of a lot of forgotten heroes with no egos who should be remembered DJ,s promoters and punters alike

 

[Steve L]

Cant comment on pre 78 but from then onwards there was no contest......

[Richard Free]

Richard richard richard 

[Mike]

all over now

thanks to all the members who took part both comment and vote wise

onto the next one...

a version battle should show up tomorrow!

 

[Peter99]

12 minutes ago, mike said:

all over now

thanks to all the members who took part both comment and vote wise

onto the next one...

a version battle should show up tomorrow!

 

Let’s get ready to rumble! 

[Guest Spain pete]

What? No stewards inquiry, or objection by the second to the winner 😱

59 minutes ago, mike said:

all over now

thanks to all the members who took part both comment and vote wise

onto the next one...

a version battle should show up tomorrow!

 

 

[maslar]

14 hours ago, Richard Free said:

Richard richard richard 

Free Richard Richard Richard.

[maslar]

Oh and before its too late. Pushing Too Hard by the Seeds was a better record than the dreadful Can't Get Over These Memories. I just needed to say that.

Edited October 10, 2017 by maslar

[Steve L]

2 hours ago, maslar said:

Oh and before its too late. Pushing Too Hard by the Seeds was a better record than the dreadful Can't Get Over These Memories. I just needed to say that.

Can we have a poll between these two records to see who agrees with you? Cant get over these memories is one of the finest records ever played on the scene. I just needed to say that...........

 

 

[Pete S]

2 hours ago, maslar said:

Oh and before its too late. Pushing Too Hard by the Seeds was a better record than the dreadful Can't Get Over These Memories. I just needed to say that.

Both classics of their genre I'd say :-)

[Pete S]

1 hour ago, Steve L said:

Can we have a poll between these two records to see who agrees with you? Cant get over these memories is one of the finest records ever played on the scene. I just needed to say that...........

 

 

The Seeds is a brilliant 60's garage record but doesn't belong on a soul site (*maybe that should say soul night not site)

Edited October 10, 2017 by Pete S

[maslar]

Just now, Pete S said:

The Seeds is a brilliant 60's garage record but doesn't belong on a soul site

Maybe not but when it was played at Wigan  it packed the floor (in the suppossed post-pop era) and was very atmospheric. Back then I doubt if many  knew who  it was.  I knew The Seeds record from Record Collector mag where it was listed as moderately rare but I hadn't heard it .So when I heard it at Wigan I didn't actually realise it was the same record for a short time.  so had no preconceptions about it. As I doubt many on the dancefloor did. Some of whom today will trash it. no doubt with their acquired knowledge.  

To me it had a psych-soul sound and is really no worse than many white dancers and better than most eg the Outsiders.  Obviously some  records sound better played in a large room like the Casino than at home. (Presents Manys The Slip is similar).   I'm not arguing whether it is soul or not. The point I'm making that in 1980 it sounded much better to  me in the Casino than John and The Wierdest. Which is actually a pretty poor dancer in my opinion.  I also condider CGOTM to be quite poppy.

Actually another big record palyed then:  Phantom Janitor (Deadbeats)  No second Chance is very similar to Pushing Too Hard to me. Isn't that psych/garage? To be honest I would also say that J& wirdest would also fall under the garage banner. If i heard it afresh.

[Guest Spain pete]

1 hour ago, Pete S said:

The Seeds is a brilliant 60's garage record but doesn't belong on a soul site

Is this a soul site ?

[Pete S]

44 minutes ago, maslar said:

Maybe not but when it was played at Wigan  it packed the floor (in the suppossed post-pop era) and was very atmospheric. Back then I doubt if many  knew who  it was.  I knew The Seeds record from Record Collector mag where it was listed as moderately rare but I hadn't heard it .So when I heard it at Wigan I didn't actually realise it was the same record for a short time.  so had no preconceptions about it. As I doubt many on the dancefloor did. Some of whom today will trash it. no doubt with their acquired knowledge.  

To me it had a psych-soul sound and is really no worse than many white dancers and better than most eg the Outsiders.  Obviously some  records sound better played in a large room like the Casino than at home. (Presents Manys The Slip is similar).   I'm not arguing whether it is soul or not. The point I'm making that in 1980 it sounded much better to  me in the Casino than John and The Wierdest. Which is actually a pretty poor dancer in my opinion.  I also condider CGOTM to be quite poppy.

Actually another big record palyed then:  Phantom Janitor (Deadbeats)  No second Chance is very similar to Pushing Too Hard to me. Isn't that psych/garage? To be honest I would also say that J& wirdest would also fall under the garage banner. If i heard it afresh.

What I mean is I don't think the Seeds record even sounds Northern.  But I never heard it played loud. Present does.  Deadbeats is beyond terrible.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Pete S

[Pete S]

2 minutes ago, Spain pete said:

Is this a soul site ?

Well it's not called 60's Garage Source so I presume so

[Guest Spain pete]

Maybe the words pop, garage ,disco Latin etc etc etc  should be used. Now l'm being ridiculous  I know 🎶🎶😱

12 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Well it's not called 60's Garage Source so I presume so

 

[maslar]

1 hour ago, Steve L said:

Can we have a poll between these two records to see who agrees with you? Cant get over these memories is one of the finest records ever played on the scene. I just needed to say that...........

 

 

I know there's no accounting for taste but I think "one of the finest" may be pushing it a little.

[Pete S]

10 minutes ago, maslar said:

I know there's no accounting for taste but I think "one of the finest" may be pushing it a little.

I think it is as well lol it's incredible...

[Guest Spain pete]

I wouldn't say finest but maybe one of the most atmospheric sounds l 've heard at a nighter 🎶🎶👌

2 hours ago, Steve L said:

Can we have a poll between these two records to see who agrees with you? Cant get over these memories is one of the finest records ever played on the scene. I just needed to say that...........

 

 

 

[maslar]

20 minutes ago, Pete S said:

I think it is as well lol it's incredible...

It can't be just me? Surely someone else doesn't   rate it?   

[Peter99]

42 minutes ago, maslar said:

It can't be just me? Surely someone else doesn't   rate it?   

I think it's an awesome record. Are you feeling lonely mate? Just a tad?

[maslar]

55 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

I think it's an awesome record. Are you feeling lonely mate? Just a tad?

Lonely and bemused. why isn't there a shaking head emijo when you need one? or shaking head and palm face combined. Even better.

[Steve L]

4 hours ago, maslar said:

It can't be just me? Surely someone else doesn't   rate it?   

Looks like you're on your own.......

[maslar]

1 hour ago, Steve L said:

Looks like you're on your own.......

Yep, just like the boy who told the emporer he wasn't wearing  any clothes

[Zoomsoulblue]

8 hours ago, Pete S said:

The Seeds is a brilliant 60's garage record but doesn't belong on a soul site (*maybe that should say soul night not site)

2 o clock in the morning speeding your nuts off - Casino - floor was packed - true 100mph stomper - part of history - doesn't matter if you like it or not - it ticked the box at the time and place 

 

[Guest son of stan]

10 hours ago, maslar said:

 Back then I doubt if many  knew who  it was.  I knew The Seeds record from Record Collector mag where it was listed as moderately rare but I hadn't heard it .

Maybe not to the Wigan crowd, but it was a Top 40 US hit and also on the hugely influential 'Nuggets' comp that came out in 1972 so fairly well known in some circles, I'd imagine..

[Wiggyflat]

Great garage record and Sky Sunlight Saxon is a legend but why anyone would want to play this on a soul scene dumbfounds me.....there must have been a great shortage of soul records.

[Guest woolie mark]

I remember hearing The Seeds played at the Casino and it sounded great, but I was a bit bemused at hearing a record I knew as a seminal punk oldie at an allnighter.  I bought up some reissues that a local record shop was selling off cheap and easily sold them on at an alldayer for a modest profit.

For me though, it's more "northern soul" than some of the depressing beat ballads that got played in the eighties.

[Guest Ian Morris]

On 11/10/2017 at 06:11, woolie mark said:

I remember hearing The Seeds played at the Casino and it sounded great, but I was a bit bemused at hearing a record I knew as a seminal punk oldie at an allnighter.  I bought up some reissues that a local record shop was selling off cheap and easily sold them on at an alldayer for a modest profit.

For me though, it's more "northern soul" than some of the depressing beat ballads that got played in the eighties.

I think it's crap never been Northern soul.....Ian..... Sheffield........

[Peter99]

3 minutes ago, Ian Morris said:

I think it's crap never been Northern soul.....Ian..... Sheffield........

Probably hundreds of records that got played hardly ever qualified as "northern" soul - yet alone soul. But, as has already been said, most people were off their heads on amphetamines and would dance to anything - and they danced to some proper shite.