Anyone know the story behind this ? Same song, different titles one, different publishers Myto and one Jobette and 2 composers are involved on both and one not... But J. Crosby reappears on the credit for the flip of Shirley J. Scott 'lonely girl'...

Edited August 31, 20177 yr by tlscapital

would love to know. if you check my profile page, 'goose pimples' is my absolute fave soul record ever. i love TMKMHM as well, but the voice on shirley j scott is just angelic.

  On 31/08/2017 at 16:11, ljblanken said:

would love to know. if you check my profile page, 'goose pimples' is my absolute fave soul record ever. i love TMKMHM as well, but the voice on shirley j scott is just angelic.

Checked ! Noticed ! Got the mission 5 out of 5. Sir, yes Sir ! LOL. Based in Belgium, I never had the chance to travel so much. Young and not rich, my crate digging was rather limited and so not everything could be so evident as to be heard like in clubs or from tape swapping. There was no northern scene in this country and only few elder mods would provide a "source" but that was "limited" for knowledge in soul. Still thankful to them for the "initiation"into that ! ;)

I knew "touch me, kiss me hold me" for a long time and kinda (only) like it. I loved the song and composition but like for many Shelby Singleton productions, the "pop" treatment always came in the way between the record and my ears. I first discovered the 'goose pimple' and bought it instantly at a record fair some 25 years ago here in Brussels from the box of a Pop-Corn ex-collectionner amongst 100 other singles. All was almost mint and costed $3 a piece... Happy days !

Instantly I sold my Inspirations copy and my curiosity around the who's, where's and why's between those two records arose my curiosity since, like you, I just love 'goose pimple' and couldn't understand the reasons with so many protagonist involved on both records for the title and publishers to change. One can develop different speculative theories on the matter but I'm after facts. Any lead is welcome...

The Black Pearl release came out twice, Black Pearl 711, plain font label design.

 

  On 01/09/2017 at 19:31, chalky said:

The Black Pearl release came out twice, Black Pearl 711, plain font label design.

 

With different flip-side as well...

Very rare on UK Polydor which I think first plays came from at the Torch.

Certainly around the time I first heard it.

Edited September 1, 20177 yr by theothertosspot

also, just to add to the questions... what do folks know about Shirley J Scott?   

  On 01/09/2017 at 23:47, ljblanken said:

also, just to add to the questions... what do folks know about Shirley J Scott?   

She had to use the "J" in her name to distinguish her from the famous Jazz singer and organ player, Shirley Scott from Philadelphia (who was very big in the 1950s and '60s.  Redd's writers were based in New York, and their artists were all East Coasters (Roy Handy-NY, Prophets Wash. D.C.).  So, I'd guess that the non-famous, Shirley J. Scott, was from The East Coast (NY-NJ Metro Area?).

No facts here - Just some theories:

Jobete Music may have bought that song in Berry Gordy's buyout of Ed Wingate's Golden World Records in 1966, or his 2nd Wingate buyout (Ric Tic) in 1968.  OR, the song actually may have originally been written by Gene Redd, Rose Marie McCoy, and James Crosby for Jobete Music in 1964, when that trio worked in Redd's production group in Jobete's New York office, and Redd took that song with him to Ed Wingate's operation in 1966, when Wingate partnered up with Redd in his new Stephanye label, which was a Golden World subsidiary.  Then, the printing of Wingate's "Myto" Music could have been a missprint, because the people getting the record info to the printer just thought it was a song written by Redd's group in 1966, while they were with Wingate.  I think that may well have also happened with "That Was My Girl" by The Parliaments, written by George Clinton's crew, which sounds clearly like it was written by them in the New York office of Jobete Music in 1964, ostensibly for The Temptations.  Clinton brought it with them to Golden World in late 1965.  The ownership of both of those songs may have been uncertain, as those songs may have been tentatively bought from their producers, Gene Redd and George Clinton, by Jobete Music, but the transaction didn't go through in mid 1964, as Berry Gordy shut down the New York office, immediately, with no warning, when Raynoma pressed up lots of copies of Mary Wells' "My Guy", and sold them to East Coast Distributors to finance her office's operations after Berry had cut off the flow of operating cash to her.  Jobete (Motown) DIDN'T buy all the songs written by their affiliated writers in New York's and L.A's Jobete Music office, as noted by considering all the Finesse Music (Hal Davis and Marc Gordon), Parlar Music (George Clinton), and Stephanye Music(Gene Redd) published songs that came from the same crews during that same period that they worked for Jobete.

Motown may have later asserted their rights to "Goose Pimples",- possibly under it's original working title, which they may even have published under that name in 1964, and Redd may have changed the title to "Goose Pimples" to release it under Myto Music in 1966.

 

Just some ideas on possible explanations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 20177 yr by RobbK

  On 03/09/2017 at 00:29, RobbK said:

She had to use the "J" in her name to distinguish her from the famous Jazz singer, Shirley Scott.  Redd's writers were based in New York, and their artists were all East Coasters (Roy Handy-NY, Prophets Wash. D.C.).  So, I'd guess that the non-famous, Shirley J. Scott, was from The East Coast (NY-NJ Metro Area?).

No facts here - Just some theories:

Jobete Music may have bought that song in Berry Gordy's buyout of Ed Wingate's Golden World Records in 1966, or his 2nd Wingate buyout (Ric Tic) in 1968... ...Then, the printing of Wingate's "Myto" Music could have been a missprint, because the people getting the record info to the printer just thought it was a song written by Redd's group in 1966, while they were with Wingate...

...their rights to "Goose Pimples",- possibly under it's original working title, which they may even have published under that name in 1964, and Redd may have changed the title to "Goose Pimples" to release it under Myto Music in 1966.

 

Just some ideas on possible explanations.

I think it makes a lot of sense; the 3 Stephanye 45's date from early 1966 (February and May) prior to Berry Gordy hands on Wingate records (with Golden World and Stephanye). All those 3 Stephanye singles feature the same credits.

Only Roy Handy's 'baby that's a groove' side was release as a Jobette tune co-composed by Holland Dozier and George Clinton... as an old venture trade mark gesture of some sort...

So likely when the Inspirations re-released it, somewhere after in 1966, Jobette owned the song and re-realeased it to make it a HIT under Shelby Singleton "pop" ensemble direction !

  On 03/09/2017 at 11:09, tlscapital said:

I think it makes a lot of sense; the 3 Stephanye 45's date from early 1966 (February and May) prior to Berry Gordy hands on Wingate records (with Golden World and Stephanye). All those 3 Stephanye singles feature the same credits.

Only Roy Handy's 'baby that's a groove' side was release as a Jobette tune co-composed by Holland Dozier and George Clinton... as an old venture trade mark gesture of some sort...

So likely when the Inspirations re-released it, somewhere after in 1966, Jobette owned the song and re-released it to make it a HIT under Shelby Singleton "pop" ensemble direction !

I doubt there was a "gesture" of any kind made by the partnership of Ed Wingate (who had no reason to do Berry Gordy a favour) and Gene Redd, who had been "fired" instantly, without any warning, when Gordy shut down Jobete New York's office in mid 1964).  I rather think that the ownership of publishing rights for "Baby That's a Groove" were very clear, because it had been sold to Jobete, and the publishing rights registered with BMI had been finalised BEFORE Gordy's shutting down NY Jobete Music, while the rights to "Goose Pimples"/"Touch Me, Hold Me, Kiss Me" were clouded and muddy, as the registration procedure may have still been in process.  In 1968, AFTER Berry had now bought out Ric Tic, the last of Wingate's record companies, he may have had his brother, Robert (Jobete's director) research "Goose Pimples"/"Touch Me, Hold Me, Kiss Me" in house, and they found that Jobete had first registered  that song under its working title, "Touch Me, Hold Me, Kiss Me", in early-mid 1964.  So, they owned the rights to it.  Jobete's people further discovered that James Crosby had been one of the writers, forgotten by Redd, or his person who sent the credits to the "Goose Pimples" printer. OR, most likely, they just added Crosby because his name was on the original credits listing.

When he registered "Goose Pimples" with BMI in 1966, Redd may have been unaware that the registration of that song had been completed in 1964, under the title, "Touch Me, Hold Me, Kiss Me".  He changed the title to "Goose Pimples" to publish it under Myto Music, so Motown's people might not be alerted, and claim it was their property.

Is there any connection between the UK Polydor release and Ed Wingate, as a few other Ed Wingate stuff, i.e. Holidays, Edwin Star, J J Barnes, came out on Polydor.

Just wondering 😎

  On 03/09/2017 at 18:09, theothertosspot said:

Is there any connection between the UK Polydor release and Ed Wingate, as a few other Ed Wingate stuff, i.e. Holidays, Edwin Star, J J Barnes, came out on Polydor.

Just wondering 😎

Ed Wingate had nothing to do with Shelby Singleton's Inspirations' release, so there was no connection from Polydor picking up that, to Polydor picking up Wingate's Golden World Holidays, and Ric Tic Edwin Starr and J.J. Barnes.

  On 03/09/2017 at 16:14, RobbK said:

I doubt there was a "gesture" of any kind made by the partnership of Ed Wingate (who had no reason to do Berry Gordy a favour) and Gene Redd, who had been "fired" instantly, without any warning, when Gordy shut down Jobete New York's office in mid 1964).  I rather think that the ownership of publishing rights for "Baby That's a Groove" were very clear, because it had been sold to Jobete, and the publishing rights registered with BMI had been finalised BEFORE Gordy's shutting down NY Jobete Music, while the rights to "Goose Pimples"/"Touch Me, Hold Me, Kiss Me" were clouded and muddy, as the registration procedure may have still been in process.  In 1968, AFTER Berry had now bought out Ric Tic, the last of Wingate's record companies, he may have had his brother, Robert (Jobete's director) research "Goose Pimples"/"Touch Me, Hold Me, Kiss Me" in house, and they found that Jobete had first registered  that song under its working title, "Touch Me, Hold Me, Kiss Me", in early-mid 1964.  So, they owned the rights to it.  Jobete's people further discovered that James Crosby had been one of the writers, forgotten by Redd, or his person who sent the credits to the "Goose Pimples" printer. OR, most likely, they just added Crosby because his name was on the original credits listing.

When he registered "Goose Pimples" with BMI in 1966, Redd may have been unaware that the registration of that song had been completed in 1964, under the title, "Touch Me, Hold Me, Kiss Me".  He changed the title to "Goose Pimples" to publish it under Myto Music, so Motown's people might not be alerted, and claim it was their property.

Alright, it makes more sense with the bad after taste of Gene Redd toward Berry Gordy that fired him back in 1964 with the shut down of the NY Jobette office. Tanks for that precise insight that allows to understand and likely explain a lot about and around that "mysterious" record.

But then why cheat on 'goose pimple'/'touch me, kiss me, hold me' title in order to twist Jobette copyrights on this very song and on the following release go for a Jobette title ? A thrill for the kill kind of game maybe ? Or/and Gene Redd claim Myto MUSIC on "his" original composition ?

Anyway, if we understand it like that, Berry Gordy also had his aftermath revenge the following year since the Inspirations reworked version titled 'touch me, kiss me, hold me' had it's share of success. While 'goose pimples' didn't score much judging by the numbers of copies floating about...