More Dreadful Repro 45s

[Cheapsiderecords]

I have to agree with Winnie here, if this is illegal what legal ramifications can there be. As my wife is always telling me " there is no defamation in truth "

[Sean Hampsey]

I have to agree with Winnie here, if this is illegal what legal ramifications can there be. As my wife is always telling me " there is no defamation in truth "

Aha!.... But The Law is an Ass!

allegedly

Sean

[stomper45]

I work for "her record label", who own the masters of all of Millie's Spring recordings, and who pay her royaties in a timely and scrupulous manner, unlike the thieving git who pays her not a penny and who has probably mastered his bootleg off of one of our CDs anyway.

Doesn't matter if he sells one copy or a million copies, he has no right to deprive Millie of a single penny of what is righfully hers.

'This kerfuffle' is not promotion for Millie, or for Ace's extensive catalogue of Millie Jackson CD reissues, it's only promoting the size of this cnut's bank account. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

I should mention, too, that this twat is selling bootleg copies of Otis Redding's "Loving By The Pound" - a track that was never released on anything at all until it was discovered by my boss nearly 30 years after Otis passed, on a tape in the vaults of the nowadays owners of Stax Records. It was first put out by Ace on a CD, and has never been licensed out for reissue by anyone. Especially not the person who's bootlegged it.

You do have a point when you say "why don't record companies pre-empt these bootlegs with reissues of their own". Via Kent., Ace does occasionally issue batches of Northern-related 45s but the sad fact is that people would often still rather buy a shoddy bootleg, pressed on crap vinyl and with an obviously counterfeited US label, than a properly remastered, direct from the original mastertape and with royalties paid to the artist and songwriter, copy on a legitimate UK pressing. More fool them , of course, but the market isn;t always big enough to sustain a legal reissue once a bootlegger's been in there and done his business.

However, after the event it may be, but I'm going to go into work today and suggest that we do a legit reissue of "House", with the instrumental version on the flip that I was recently involved in the creation and mixdown of...

TONE

alrite Tone

i wasn't having a dig at label inaction but if nothing else this thread has prompted some. If its not easily cost effective to release Northern 45's, what about widening the target audience with a ballad or other artist on b-side?

Just ideas but maybe still not viable.

The people buying this want to own it on vinyl, maybe they have it on cd, maybe vinyl collections (real or counterfeit) is becoming the new retro home accesory to impress the neighbours!

many on here own or have sold counterfeit vinyl, cds and other goods, technology is changing the music market how does it react?

I started a thread a recently about whether free cd's should be deliberately low quality so as not to affect companies that make legal compilations, 1 person commented....

And what about us dj's if we cut an unissued track from a cd, is this good or bad for the industry/artist, appreciate your industry input

danny

[Winnie :-)]

alrite Tone

i wasn't having a dig at label inaction but if nothing else this thread has prompted some. If its not easily cost effective to release Northern 45's, what about widening the target audience with a ballad or other artist on b-side?

Just ideas but maybe still not viable.

The people buying this want to own it on vinyl, maybe they have it on cd, maybe vinyl collections (real or counterfeit) is becoming the new retro home accesory to impress the neighbours!

many on here own or have sold counterfeit vinyl, cds and other goods, technology is changing the music market how does it react?

I started a thread a recently about whether free cd's should be deliberately low quality so as not to affect companies that make legal compilations, 1 person commented....

And what about us dj's if we cut an unissued track from a cd, is this good or bad for the industry/artist, appreciate your industry input

danny

===========

The thing I can't understand is what's the lure, if its a bootleg and you're a DJ, you're almost certain to be found out. And why bother with a bootleg, when as you rightly say Danny the track has probably been released on CD anyway.

If CDs were an acceptable DJ format, would that curtail the bootlegs, this isn't a view, its a question. I can see there being downsides obviously, because virtually anybody would be able to DJ, although if it did take off, could see it being mostly at local soul nights. But which would be the lesser of the two evils. Boots have been part of this scene for 30 plus years, so the problem has never really been solved, perhaps embracing CDs could do that? As I said, not a personal view, just a question.

Winnie:-)

[Winnie :-)]

Win

I think earlier in the thread someone stated that selling is'nt illegal its the manufacture that is. That would explain why certain people are openly selling them as it is probably much harder to prove where the original source is.

============

I thought earlier in the thread, people were saying they knew who was behind all of these bootlegs?? Wouldn't the person selling these boots be as responsible as the person manufacturing them? Even if different sources were used to supply the seller, under investigation wouldn't that person have to name them or face prosecution themselves. And if in the future a new supplier was found, the seller could hardly deny that they knew the records were boots. Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but there must be a reason why someone can constantly sell boots and not be prosecuted?

Winnie:-)

[Guest Stuart T]

============

I thought earlier in the thread, people were saying they knew who was behind all of these bootlegs?? Wouldn't the person selling these boots be as responsible as the person manufacturing them? Even if different sources were used to supply the seller, under investigation wouldn't that person have to name them or face prosecution themselves. And if in the future a new supplier was found, the seller could hardly deny that they knew the records were boots. Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but there must be a reason why someone can constantly sell boots and not be prosecuted?

They can be prosecuted for selling goods which infringe a copyright, these sales appear to constitute several offences, primarily section 103 of the Copyright, Design and Patents Act which prohibits dealing in goods which infringe a copyright; fines of up to £5,000 can be imposed in the Magistrates Court and/or imprisonment for up to six months (2 years in a Crown Court). The law isn't such an ass as people like to make out, its the people who are supposed to enforce it who often make the errors.

What area does this seller operate from? I'll be happy to report him to the local trading standards office. And harass them until they do something about it. I'll expect a promotion in the soul police for doing so or does that just make me a copper's nark?

[Winnie :-)]

They can be prosecuted for selling goods which infringe a copyright, these sales appear to constitute several offences, primarily section 103 of the Copyright, Design and Patents Act which prohibits dealing in goods which infringe a copyright; fines of up to £5,000 can be imposed in the Magistrates Court and/or imprisonment for up to six months (2 years in a Crown Court). The law isn't such an ass as people like to make out, its the people who are supposed to enforce it who often make the errors.

What area does this seller operate from? I'll be happy to report him to the local trading standards office. And harass them until they do something about it. I'll expect a promotion in the soul police for doing so or does that just make me a copper's nark?

============

Thanks for explaining Stu, and just to clear up one last point, just who can be prosecuted, the person producing the boots, or the person selling them?

Win:-)

PS. Think you're ready for the SPG mate

[Guest Stuart T]

============

Thanks for explaining Stu, and just to clear up one last point, just who can be prosecuted, the person producing the boots, or the person selling them?

PS. Think you're ready for the SPG mate

The seller as well, all stages of producing, marketing and actually selling them are covered by the offences under the act.

SPG? Does this mean I get to shut suspect's fingers in the cell door?

[Guest Simon]

The thing I can't understand is what's the lure, if its a bootleg and you're a DJ, you're almost certain to be found out. And why bother with a bootleg, when as you rightly say Danny the track has probably been released on CD anyway.

If CDs were an acceptable DJ format, would that curtail the bootlegs, this isn't a view, its a question. I can see there being downsides obviously, because virtually anybody would be able to DJ, although if it did take off, could see it being mostly at local soul nights.Winnie:-)

Say No to cds! horrible, soulless, corporate things!

Simon

[Winnie :-)]

The seller as well, all stages of producing, marketing and actually selling them are covered by the offences under the act.

SPG? Does this mean I get to shut suspect's fingers in the cell door?

============

Thanks Stu So the seller could be named then?

Yep, as a treat you can shut fingers in doors

[Winnie :-)]

Say No to cds! horrible, soulless, corporate things!

Simon

===========

Accept you don't like CDs Si, but in most cases at least they're official releases, with I take it royalties going to the artists. This isn't the case in Boots, so perhaps CDs are the lesser of the two evils............unless there is another way to stop boots being sold that no one has come up with yet?

[Guest Stuart T]

============

Thanks Stu So the seller could be named then?

Yep, as a treat you can shut fingers in doors

If he or she gets prosecuted. And they will want to know the source of the pressings.

If anyone is thinking of sending me the usual threatening emails for daring to try to p#ss on their illegal bonfire I'll quite happily forward them to the real police, so just don't bother eh?

[Mormar44]

If he or she gets prosecuted. And they will want to know the source of the pressings.

If anyone is thinking of sending me the usual threatening emails for daring to try to p#ss on their illegal bonfire I'll quite happily forward them to the real police, so just don't bother eh?

I know its not the same as the boots where they scan the original label and paste them onto an old boot but I have just had a list from a major UK seller with 3 pages of boots at the back. I have seen this seller selling white label copies of current big spins at weekenders and told him I don't agree with it. His reply was that he keeps getting asked for said records so he's just filling the demand. Using that theory everytime JM or Anglo get a rare record in and get 20 enquiries for that record they should do some copies and offer them to fill the demand. :angry:

[Pete S]

Nothing to do with me by the way...

[Supercorsa]

I know its not the same as the boots where they scan the original label and paste them onto an old boot but I have just had a list from a major UK seller with 3 pages of boots at the back. I have seen this seller selling white label copies of current big spins at weekenders and told him I don't agree with it.

Who is the seller?

[Guest 71TRSC]

I know its not the same as the boots where they scan the original label and paste them onto an old boot but I have just had a list from a major UK seller with 3 pages of boots at the back. I have seen this seller selling white label copies of current big spins at weekenders and told him I don't agree with it. His reply was that he keeps getting asked for said records so he's just filling the demand. Using that theory everytime JM or Anglo get a rare record in and get 20 enquiries for that record they should do some copies and offer them to fill the demand. :angry:

Most if not all reputable dealers sell 2nd issues and previously unissued stuff. I buy some of the previously unissued stuff as its usually on a limited run and affordable. But the question is who's responsibility is it to find out if it is a legit release? Do I question the dealer and take his word for it? There must be hundreds of tracks available out there and some of it is kosher and some of it dodgy. How are you supposed to sort the wheat from the chaff?

[Guest Brian Ellis]

The seller as well, all stages of producing, marketing and actually selling them are covered by the offences under the act.

SPG? Does this mean I get to shut suspect's fingers in the cell door?

You'd have to round up more than half the record sellers at any given soul night!!

Brian

[paultp]

===========

The thing I can't understand is what's the lure, if its a bootleg and you're a DJ, you're almost certain to be found out. And why bother with a bootleg, when as you rightly say Danny the track has probably been released on CD anyway.

If CDs were an acceptable DJ format, would that curtail the bootlegs, this isn't a view, its a question. I can see there being downsides obviously, because virtually anybody would be able to DJ, although if it did take off, could see it being mostly at local soul nights. But which would be the lesser of the two evils. Boots have been part of this scene for 30 plus years, so the problem has never really been solved, perhaps embracing CDs could do that? As I said, not a personal view, just a question.

Winnie:-)

Quite agree with you here Winnie, I don't quite get why people buy bootlegs these days either.

As you say boots have been part of the scene for 30 years but back in the 70's the current format was 7 inch vinyl so bootlegging rare tunes onto vinyl was the only cheap way that the masses could own and play a tune at home. So bootlegging was meeting a market demand in the current format back then.

Now the current formats are CD's, mp3's etc (cheaper, lighter, no moving parts as the standard engineering answer goes) so what is the point in buying a vinyl bootleg?

More worryingly these days is that improvements in print technology has meant that bootlegs are being made to look exactly like the real thing, that can only be for deception on either a seller and/or DJ's part.

I think this forum actually should organise an official Soul Police to check records at original vinyl only (OVO) venues, the checking could be done unobtrusively behind the scenes randomly checking records in DJ boxes. If done in a responsible way with the consent of promoters and DJ's alike I'm sure it would work to the advantage of all as promoters and punters would know that only original vinyl was being played and if a hard to spot bootleg was found then surely the DJ would be grateful for the information.

[Supercorsa]

What about venues that only play vinyl, whereby a DJ has paid to have a CD only track put onto vinyl (vinyl carvers) to play out, why would this be deemed acceptable?

Confused of Surrey.

[Guest Stuart T]

You'd have to round up more than half the record sellers at any given soul night!!

I'm a lot less concerned about the older bootlegs that are being sold as there wouldn't be any royalties attached to them anyway. Its these currently pressed lookalikes that get on my tits. Most of the tracks in question can be had on CD so why are they pressed? Pure greed, thats all, if you want a 7" to play at home that you can't get or afford get it done at vinyl carvers yourself, don't line the pockets of these people.

[chrissie]

Win

I think earlier in the thread someone stated that selling is'nt illegal its the manufacture that is. That would explain why certain people are openly selling them as it is probably much harder to prove where the original source is.

It may or may not be illegal to sell these but surely it is against ebay terms and conditions to mis-represent these items in an auction.

As far as I can see there are three baddies at work here, 1 the person manufacturing them, 2 the person selling these items knowing that they are counterfeit goods and 3rdly ebay for continuing to allow people like this to openly mis-represent goods even after they have been informed of the scam.

IMO if ebay suspended this person and all their related ebay accounts this would take away the sellers "shop-window". What annoys me about this type of behavior is ebays unwillingness to act on information supplied to them.

QoFxx

[Guest Stuart T]

What about venues that only play vinyl, whereby a DJ has paid to have a CD only track put onto vinyl (vinyl carvers) to play out, why would this be deemed acceptable?

Confused of Surrey.

Yes and no.

[Guest Simon]

Now the current formats are CD's, mp3's etc (cheaper, lighter, no moving parts as the standard engineering answer goes) so what is the point in buying a vinyl bootleg?

Thing is Paul what happens if you don't want CDs or MP3s & are a vinyl lover, then the only way to have the thing on vinyl is to buy an original copy or a reissue or if you're absolutely desperate then you unfortunately have to revert to a dodgy bootleg.

Simon

[Guest Stuart T]

I think this forum actually should organise an official Soul Police to check records at original vinyl only (OVO) venues, the checking could be done unobtrusively behind the scenes randomly checking records in DJ boxes. If done in a responsible way with the consent of promoters and DJ's alike I'm sure it would work to the advantage of all as promoters and punters would know that only original vinyl was being played and if a hard to spot bootleg was found then surely the DJ would be grateful for the information.

They should get free admission and beer all night too. I'd volunteer.

[Winnie :-)]

It may or may not be illegal to sell these but surely it is against ebay terms and conditions to mis-represent these items in an auction.

As far as I can see there are three baddies at work here, 1 the person manufacturing them, 2 the person selling these items knowing that they are counterfeit goods and 3rdly ebay for continuing to allow people like this to openly mis-represent goods even after they have been informed of the scam.

IMO if ebay suspended this person and all their related ebay accounts this would take away the sellers "shop-window". What annoys me about this type of behavior is ebays unwillingness to act on information supplied to them.

QoFxx

=============

What about people who knowingly buy them?

[chrissie]

=============

What about people who knowingly buy them?

They are just as bad and should be lined up and shot along with the other 3 baddies

QoFxx

[Winnie :-)]

Thing is Paul what happens if you don't want CDs or MP3s & are a vinyl lover, then the only way to have the thing on vinyl is to buy an original copy or a reissue or if you're absolutely desperate then you unfortunately have to revert to a dodgy bootleg.

Simon

=============

I can understand the craving for vinyl, but why not as someone has suggested get it cut yourself. I think as a scene we shoot ourselves in the foot on so many occasions. Outrage that Bootlegs are being sold, but no acceptance of other formats, which would probably make the need for boots obsolete. If people are serious about ridding the scene of boots, surely every avenue has to be explored?? I think relying on peoples goodwill not to buy boots isn't realistic to be honest. It's like an relying on an athlete not to take performance enhancers, for some reaching their goal is secondary to how they actually achieve it.

Winnie:-)

[Pete S]

They are just as bad and should be lined up and shot along with the other 3 baddies

QoFxx

That would leave about 8 people on the northern scene!

[Mormar44]

They are just as bad and should be lined up and shot along with the other 3 baddies

QoFxx

And DJ's that go out and get someone else's current big spin booted so they can DJ with it themselves should be hung drawn and quartered !!

Went to a local soul night a few weeks back before Margaret Little was booted and heard a well known (ish) DJ play Robert Tanner and Margaret Little in his spot. He told me that someone local had done 6 back to back copies with those 2 tracks on them. I told him that I didnt agree with it and that I didnt think it would enhance his DJ reputation. His reaction was that only hardcore collectors would know and he was more interested in impressing the dancing punters.

These DJ's are the people that really get up my nose !!

Edited November 17, 2006 by mormar44

[Winnie :-)]

That would leave about 8 people on the northern scene!

=============

It's difficult to disagree with this sentiment, human nature is such that total honesty doesn't really exist

[Guest Simon]

I can understand the craving for vinyl, but why not as someone has suggested get it cut yourself.

Couple of reasons really Win, one i can't be arsed & secondly i think some of the repros sound & look quite good, that's not to say i'm buying them cause i ain't but i can see why people would.

Simon

[Pete S]

And DJ's that go out and get someone else's current big spin booted so they can DJ with it themselves should be hung drawn and quartered !!

Went to a local soul night a few weeks back before Margaret Little was booted and heard a well known (ish) DJ play Robert Tanner and Margaret Little in his spot. He told me that someone local had done 6 back to back copies with those 2 tracks on them. I told him that I didnt agree with it and that I didnt think it would enhance his DJ reputation. His reaction was that only hardcore collectors would know and he was more interested in impressing the dancing punters.

These DJ's are the people that really get up my nose !!

But again this comes down whether you want to deny the paying customers the chance to hear a great record! because 90% of them do not care what label it's on...

[Guest Simon]

But again this comes down whether you want to deny the paying customers the chance to hear a great record! because 90% of them do not care what label it's on...

[Supercorsa]

I told him that I didnt agree with it and that I didnt think it would enhance his DJ reputation. His reaction was that only hardcore collectors would know and he was more interested in impressing the dancing punters.

I see Pete has already beaten me to it, but I was going to say surely he was there primarily to get people dancing? We're always arguing about DJ's not entertaining punters, these arguements, sorry discussions, will go on & on & on...

[Winnie :-)]

But again this comes down whether you want to deny the paying customers the chance to hear a great record! because 90% of them do not care what label it's on...

===========

And how many, if not facing peer pressure, really care about the format?? If the people posting in this thread were represenatative, you'd assume everyone, but there are over 2000 people on SS not even bothering to put up a view. That's not a criticism, just a fact of life, most people aren't all that bothered one way or the other and thats probably because the vast majority are punters not collectors?

Winnie:-)

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Say No to cds! horrible, soulless, corporate things!

Simon

Yeah, and why not say fcuk off to vinyl too, and 78s while you're at it - far as I'm concerned, a DJ's not a DJ if he or she isn't playing everything off wax cylinders

[Pete S]

Disregarding the rights and wrongs of all this - if a record that I want is bootlegged and I know I haven't got a chance of owning an original, I will buy it without question. Sorry.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Disregarding the rights and wrongs of all this - if a record that I want is bootlegged and I know I haven't got a chance of owning an original, I will buy it without question. Sorry.

...Fair point, Pete. I won't for a minute pretend that my own collection is 100% guaranteed bootleg-free, but wouldn't you concur that there's a big difference between owning a counterfeit copy of, say, a Mel Britt record, originally released on a hole-in-the-wall US label with no forwarding address, and a record that most ordinary mortals could ill afford an original of, and a blatantly bootlegged Otis Redding Stax recording that's been readily available on an Ace CD, at a suggested retail price of around £8.99, for the best part of 15 years?

TONE

[Pete S]

...Fair point, Pete. I won't for a minute pretend that my own collection is 100% guaranteed bootleg-free, but wouldn't you concur that there's a big difference between owning a counterfeit copy of, say, a Mel Britt record, originally released on a hole-in-the-wall US label with no forwarding address, and a record that most ordinary mortals could ill afford an original of, and a blatantly bootlegged Otis Redding Stax recording that's been readily available on an Ace CD, at a suggested retail price of around £8.99, for the best part of 15 years?

TONE

With the first point, yes, with the second point, no - if there is no vinyl issue of Otis Redding then people are going to want one and do what it takes to get one. (Am just making a point here and not condoning it) Because that's the difference between cd and vinyl - you can't hold and look at a cd like you can with a record. I remember the first ever emidisc I got, Lou Pride and reggie Garner, the labels where white with the artist and title written on them, I used to sit and stare at it and even smell the bloody thing!

[paultp]

They should get free admission and beer all night too. I'd volunteer.

I agree, I'll get some armbands together.

[Winnie :-)]

With the first point, yes, with the second point, no - if there is no vinyl issue of Otis Redding then people are going to want one and do what it takes to get one. (Am just making a point here and not condoning it) Because that's the difference between cd and vinyl - you can't hold and look at a cd like you can with a record. I remember the first ever emidisc I got, Lou Pride and reggie Garner, the labels where white with the artist and title written on them, I used to sit and stare at it and even smell the bloody thing!

==========

Do they smell different as well?

[paultp]

Disregarding the rights and wrongs of all this - if a record that I want is bootlegged and I know I haven't got a chance of owning an original, I will buy it without question. Sorry.

I was going to disagree with this but then realised that I bought those Motown unreleased singles (Lone lonely town etc) for this reason and also have a white label of the Keni Lewis - Not The Marrying Kind. I've also got a 70's white label of Brenda Holloway - Reconsider. Wouldn't part with any of them and will not get to own the original acetates either.

I played the Brenda Holloway at a promotion night for one of Jo's Motown compliation CDs and the woman from Universal responsible for the UK Motown stuff had never seen one before, hadn't heard the tune either.

[Pete S]

==========

Do they smell different as well?

Acetates smell different to other records!

[Guest Stuart T]

Yeah, and why not say fcuk off to vinyl too, and 78s while you're at it - far as I'm concerned, a DJ's not a DJ if he or she isn't playing everything off wax cylinders

That Mary Had A Little Lamb is a stomper.

==========

Do they smell different as well?

They leach acetone for about 30 years, and so smell awful. I wonder if you can get off your head sniffing them? Pete?

[Pete S]

They leach acetone for about 30 years, and so smell awful. I wonder if you can get off your head sniffing them? Pete?

Mixed with that Fairy active foam, it's lethal!

(the fairy active foam is definitely the best record cleaner I've used though...put it on a dry record, wipe it round so it coats it, play the recrod then was under the tap, the amount of crap it lifts out is amazing)

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

That Mary Had A Little Lamb is a stomper.

They leach acetone for about 30 years, and so smell awful. I wonder if you can get off your head sniffing them? Pete?

...Most definitely you can. I recently supervised the transfer, on Ace;s behalf, of all the King Records acetates from the 1940s, from King;s offices in Nashville to Ace's in London. Packed all 53 boxes of 'em myself, so I did...

Many of them had been packed back-to back in the same sleeve for nearly 55 years, and had the leaky slime to which Pete refers, all over the unused sides that were facing each other. Even though I was working in an airy building when packing and unpacking these (two, in fact, one at each end of the trip) the unavoidable inhalation of all that toxic acetone while wiping it off the 'slates' made me ill on at least two occasions and like I was rolling stoned on several others.

Conclusive proof, if ever it was needed, that some music really is bad for your health!

TONE

Edited November 17, 2006 by TONY ROUNCE

[Sebastian]

if there is no vinyl issue of Otis Redding then people are going to want one and do what it takes to get one.

There IS a legitimate vinyl issue of that Otis Redding tune. Albeit on an LP, but it's an official release.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Sebastian

[Drew3]

...Fair point, Pete. I won't for a minute pretend that my own collection is 100% guaranteed bootleg-free, but wouldn't you concur that there's a big difference between owning a counterfeit copy of, say, a Mel Britt record, originally released on a hole-in-the-wall US label with no forwarding address, and a record that most ordinary mortals could ill afford an original of, and a blatantly bootlegged Otis Redding Stax recording that's been readily available on an Ace CD, at a suggested retail price of around £8.99, for the best part of 15 years?

TONE

Tone.

I wouldn't presume to have anywhere near enough experience or knowledge about this topic to question the likes of yourself, but isn't a counterfeit record a counterfeit record, whenever, however it was made or aquired? Why do you have such records in your collection?

I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't but reading the post above seems a tad hypocritical to me.

No offence meant and learning all the time from such topics.

KTF.

Drew.

[Guest Stuart T]

...Most definitely you can. I recently supervised the transfer, on Ace;s behalf, of all the King Records acetates from the 1940s, from King;s offices in Nashville to Ace's in London. Packed all 53 boxes of 'em myself, so I did...

Many of them had been packed back-to back in the same sleeve for nearly 55 years, and had the leaky slime to which Pete refers, all over the unused sides that were facing each other. Even though I was working in an airy building when packing and unpacking these (two, in fact, one at each end of the trip) the unavoidable inhalation of all that toxic acetone while wiping it off the 'slates' made me ill on at least two occasions and like I was rolling stoned on several others.

Conclusive proof, if ever it was needed, that some music really is bad for your health!

TONE

I don't think anyone is feeling sorry for you Tone!

Out of interest, when you get a catalogue like that do you ever get the masters or stampers (from a later date than the 40s I'd imagine) or are they usually trashed after the production run is completed? Or do they end up being retained by the pressing plant?

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I don't think anyone is feeling sorry for you Tone!

Out of interest, when you get a catalogue like that do you ever get the masters or stampers (from a later date than the 40s I'd imagine) or are they usually trashed after the production run is completed? Or do they end up being retained by the pressing plant?

Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. Most of the major labels retain their metal stampers - for many vintage jazz and blues reissues, they've created vinyl 78s from original stampers to be digitally transferred where the original 78 is so rare as to be non-existent, or exists only in copies that are so knackered that you couldn't get a good sound transfer off them even if you wanted to.

A lot of indies scrapped their 78 stampers when 78s started to become obsolete. King still has quite a few, but I'm sure that they were saved almost by accident back in the 50s. As you say, a lot of stampers form all sorts of labels did end up staying at pressing plants and were not called for by the label owners when they went out of business.

Ace has a lot of the original metalwork (acetates and/or stampers as appropriate) from the labels it owns, like Kent/Modern and Dootone, for instance, but we always prefer to go back to original tapes if the masters were recorded to tape and if the tape has preserved the integrity of the music.

TONE