went out last night to a club that normally pulls in a good crowd although occasionally, like last night they are down on numbers, thought about it a while then noticed the amount of flyers on the tables. brought them all home and after adding soul nights that we know of that hadn't got flyers at the venue we figured that within 30 miles east, north and south of us there are something like 30 soul nights each month.

THIRTY SOUL NIGHTS, no wonder the numbers are down, just wondered what you thought about that???????????????????????

Edited November 12, 200618 yr by ShaneH

Different problem down south.

I couldn't find a venue within 30 miles last night.

  Soulsmith said:

Different problem down south.

I couldn't find a venue within 30 miles last night.

same ere...for once i had a free staurday nite and couldnt find anything within 200 miles of here

cookie

personally think the soul scene is in a mess from say the midlands northwards. Too many venues by far and not enough punters to go round.

Personally speaking i dont think the northern scenes a mess chalky,its probably the healthiest its been and going to get.Its all down to choice and which venue can cater for your needs.

  chalky said:

personally think the soul scene is in a mess from say the midlands northwards. Too many venues by far and not enough punters to go round.

  rarestags said:

Personally speaking i dont think the northern scenes a mess chalky,its probably the healthiest its been and going to get.Its all down to choice and which venue can cater for your needs.

it's very healthy with regards to the number of venues but how many are healthy with the number of punters through the door.

Personally think it could be lot healthier.

  bitchdj said:

same ere...for once i had a free staurday nite and couldnt find anything within 200 miles of here

cookie

200 miles, man where abouts in the country would that be, want us to come over and say hello

Edited November 12, 200618 yr by bridget

  Soulsmith said:

Different problem down south.

I couldn't find a venue within 30 miles last night.

colin im sure you mean that you couldnt find a venue within 30 miles that would let you in

you missed a busy night at toddys last night

There are too many venues if you you want to take them all in in a month. Depends where you live and how far you want to travel and what music you want to listen/dance to. 30 mile circle of manchester would probably take a year to visit all soul venues, soul nites, niters, pub nites. Luckily they vary in styles, mainly oldies but with the likes of the greatstone, nags head, lowton, twisted wheel, soul or nothing, middleton, to name a few its all here if you want it. The country is awash with soul nites, niters, & now weekenders, being a soul freak has never been so good,

or has it? Unfortunatley I can't make as many as I would like to.

Edited November 12, 200618 yr by soulandy

In theory it's good to have a choice of venue to go to, but in practise very disappointing when you go to a venue and it's numbers are down

Recently theres been a big increase in soul nites and niters, but not in people to attend them.

Even with a good DJ line up, the dance floor isn't full, as not enough people in, then the night lacks a good atmosphere. When you have a lot of event's running on the same night - the numbers in attendance are always going to be watered down.

Karen

  Soulsmith said:

Different problem down south.

I couldn't find a venue within 30 miles last night.

Depends how far south you are talking about but Southside Soul Club was on in Plumstead, South London

nowt wrong with a bit of competition,is there?

It's a difficult one though, on one hand there maybe too many nites on, but if there were only two on a month within 30 miles,we'd be moanin( funny bunch are'nt we!!) .

Maybe numbers might be down, cos of that Christmas thingy coming up,,saving up and that...one more thing nobody has a right to "claim a date" for a soul nite

but surely no-one double books a nite on purpose to p**s off another venue,,THATS NOT ON!!

Edited November 12, 200618 yr by KevH

Loads of events yes, but I wonder whether the numbers of punters has also started to decline.

I've been actively attending events again since the mid 9ts but I'm having a break now (apart from Weekenders) simply because I've got bored. Local do's are same old same old and I can't be bothered traveling anymore, even to the more cutting edge events.

If you look back to the heyday of the 70s and think about how many years most people were actively attending venues on a regular basis it was probably between 5 and 10 years. Well, the 'revival' has been going on for about that now and I can see people starting to drift away, or reduce the number of events they attend.

Plus, the whole dynamics of the scene has changed over the last 5 years or so. More and more tracks are becoming quickly available through the internet, on DVD or CD (legit or otherwise). A lot of punters and DJs have taken a pragmatic approach to this and are taking advantage of it. Don't want to go anywhere near that debate, but the simple fact is that you can hear all the 'current monsters' either in the comfort of your living room, or more than likely at a venue no more than 10 miles away.

Kev

  KevH said:

nowt wrong with a bit of competition,is there?

It's a difficult one though, on one hand there maybe too many nites on, but if there were only two on a month within 30 miles,we'd be moanin( funny bunch are'nt we!!) .

Maybe numbers might be down, cos of that Christmas thingy coming up,,saving up and that...one more thing nobody has a right to "claim a date" for a soul nite

but surely no-one double books a nite on purpose to p**s off another venue,,THATS NOT ON!!

Agree with everything KevH says.

One other thing to throw into the mix. The resurgence of the scene posibly coincided with the fact that a lot of people were free to go out more often again as their children had reached an age where they were independant. Maybe now 5/10 years on the same people are having to cope with Grandparent duties ?

  Ranger said:

Loads of events yes, but I wonder whether the numbers of punters has also started to decline.

I've been actively attending events again since the mid 9ts but I'm having a break now (apart from Weekenders) simply because I've got bored. Local do's are same old same old and I can't be bothered traveling anymore, even to the more cutting edge events.

If you look back to the heyday of the 70s and think about how many years most people were actively attending venues on a regular basis it was probably between 5 and 10 years. Well, the 'revival' has been going on for about that now and I can see people starting to drift away, or reduce the number of events they attend.

Plus, the whole dynamics of the scene has changed over the last 5 years or so. More and more tracks are becoming quickly available through the internet, on DVD or CD (legit or otherwise). A lot of punters and DJs have taken a pragmatic approach to this and are taking advantage of it. Don't want to go anywhere near that debate, but the simple fact is that you can hear all the 'current monsters' either in the comfort of your living room, or more than likely at a venue no more than 10 miles away.

Kev

Agree with your point of view.. I really do think that numbers IN GENERAL have started to decline: this I think has something to do with the boredom factor in some more than the ability to listen to sounds in different formats. When travelling there is also the risk factor in that even if the event plays the advertised music policy then there may only be a few in leading to a poor atmosphere.

Anyway, good to see different point of view.

I don't get out that much these days as I have small children but, to me, the main problem with having loads of nites on every weekend is that I end up being so confused by where to go that I don't go anywhere. Or I just play safe and go to venues that I know will be definitely good rather than take the risk and end up listening to stompers all night . It's like having Sky and having all the movie channels, the whole deal....you still end up watching a documentary on BBC2

  Soulsmith said:

Different problem down south.

I couldn't find a venue within 30 miles last night.

seems to have been a bit bleak soul do wise around the herts, beds bucks area for the last couple of months

Lots of good points on this topic...Yes there are too many nights and not enough punters...Some nights have more djs/wanna be djs/promoters/record dealers but very few punters just there for a dance and a drink...And yes we have the you put me on at yours and i put you on at mine ...Stick to being a punter ,i spent most of my time on the scene like that and had a great time..Did not know anything about djs and promoters and who was who, just paid on the door and danced all night with a smile on my face..In the last few years i have got into promoting and seen the dark side of the soul scene ....Like it says in the Werewolf film..."keep to the path and don't go in the woods" ...You don't know what creatures lurk in there...

Like many have said,tooooooooooooo many nights with small numbers..Lets have promoters talking and helping each other and stop shitting on each others doorstep...Some can see the logic in this but others aint gonna change...Real shame that some just want all the gravy,greedy greedy fools but thats the way of the world for a lot of folk...

  little-stevie said:

Lots of good points on this topic...Yes there are too many nights and not enough punters...Some nights have more djs/wanna be djs/promoters/record dealers but very few punters just there for a dance and a drink...And yes we have the you put me on at yours and i put you on at mine ...Stick to being a punter ,i spent most of my time on the scene like that and had a great time..Did not know anything about djs and promoters and who was who, just paid on the door and danced all night with a smile on my face..In the last few years i have got into promoting and seen the dark side of the soul scene ....Like it says in the Werewolf film..."keep to the path and don't go in the woods" ...You don't know what creatures lurk in there...

Like many have said,tooooooooooooo many nights with small numbers..Lets have promoters talking and helping each other and stop shitting on each others doorstep...Some can see the logic in this but others aint gonna change...Real shame that some just want all the gravy,greedy greedy fools but thats the way of the world for a lot of folk...

Ive seen dark side of soul scene too - which was such a shame as thought it was only nice and friendly (too many people want to get involved with other people's business - should stick to Eastenders!)

But then again, there are some decent/good people on the scene, just have to find them!

Back to the subject, I agree, either loads on in one area one weekend and next nothing locally! Think prob. better organised than it was - down this way now.

Im with chalky on this one, far too many venues, not enough people to go around. IMHO too many promoters dont talk, if they did im sure a lot of this confusion would stop, and would benefit everyone.

  KevH said:

nowt wrong with a bit of competition,is there?

It's a difficult one though, on one hand there maybe too many nites on, but if there were only two on a month within 30 miles,we'd be moanin( funny bunch are'nt we!!) .

Maybe numbers might be down, cos of that Christmas thingy coming up,,saving up and that...one more thing nobody has a right to "claim a date" for a soul nite

but surely no-one double books a nite on purpose to p**s off another venue,,THATS NOT ON!!

Sometimes there is something wrong with competition, often an area can't sustain two venues with not enough punters to make either viable or maybe even enjoyable with little atmosphere at either. Besides what's the point in having venues in close proximaty clashing

Can you honestly say that 30 venues in one monthly period within a 30 mile radius is healthy for the scene. Like I said the scene might be healthy with the amount of venues but the scene IMHO is sufferring because of the number of events

As for your last comment yes some promoters do clash to piss another promoter off, always have done and it's still going on.

I can almost walk to soul venues that have sprung up around us and sometimes soul events going off in our town and don`t even know about them, im not dwelling on the past but it was not like that then, i remember looking forward to a allnighter for weeks,seems like days now.

There's certainly no shortage of people wanting to D.J. at venues. It's not an ideal situation, but I wouldn't like a scene that is controlled by a few individuals,so as a side issue, who do you think is honest, fair handed & forward thinking enough to be the Chairman of "Northern Soul PLC", I'd be too corrupt!

Des

  richard said:

Depends how far south you are talking about but Southside Soul Club was on in Plumstead, South London

Cheers for that, its probabbly about 35 miles from me (same sort of distance as Eastleigh also on thatr night).

Been to some real friendly dos in S.London (namely Tooting & Morden) but they both struggled with low attendances. Hope it works out at Plumstead.

Col.

There are a lot of venues popping up ,up norf ,but I dont think thats a bad thing ,pick out the ones you like an stick to em,dont bother with the ones you dont...I dont care if there is 200 or 40 peeps in the place, if the atmosphere is right and the music suits me,then Im happy

Bazza

  Soulsmith said:

Different problem down south.

I couldn't find a venue within 30 miles last night.

where are you in East Anglia we are unindated there is an EXCELLENT SOUL NITE at CITY CLUB PBORO,LEL ST IVES,SOUL OLE THE FLEET RAILWAY CLUB WELLINGBORO AND NEXT YEAR DEDICATED SOUL CLUB is back

If you are up for it let me know ans I will send you a email with events on. They are all shown on this site

steph

Edited November 13, 200618 yr by STEPH

  KevH said:

nowt wrong with a bit of competition,is there?

It's a difficult one though, on one hand there maybe too many nites on, but if there were only two on a month within 30 miles,we'd be moanin( funny bunch are'nt we!!) .

Maybe numbers might be down, cos of that Christmas thingy coming up,,saving up and that...one more thing nobody has a right to "claim a date" for a soul nite

but surely no-one double books a nite on purpose to p**s off another venue,,THATS NOT ON!!

they do around here, and some do it deliberately, if you don't wear the baggies, carry a holdall, and listen to the same 50 tunes everyweek. and they will even tell others to go to their venue because "we play better music than they do".. trust me it happens.

  Ranger said:

Loads of events yes, but I wonder whether the numbers of punters has also started to decline.

I've been actively attending events again since the mid 9ts but I'm having a break now (apart from Weekenders) simply because I've got bored. Local do's are same old same old and I can't be bothered traveling anymore, even to the more cutting edge events.

If you look back to the heyday of the 70s and think about how many years most people were actively attending venues on a regular basis it was probably between 5 and 10 years. Well, the 'revival' has been going on for about that now and I can see people starting to drift away, or reduce the number of events they attend.

Plus, the whole dynamics of the scene has changed over the last 5 years or so. More and more tracks are becoming quickly available through the internet, on DVD or CD (legit or otherwise). A lot of punters and DJs have taken a pragmatic approach to this and are taking advantage of it. Don't want to go anywhere near that debate, but the simple fact is that you can hear all the 'current monsters' either in the comfort of your living room, or more than likely at a venue no more than 10 miles away.

Kev

=========

Loads of points I agree with in the above. Definitely a decline in numbers, and of course where before 2 into 10 went 5 times, now it's more like 2 into 30 so numbers at most places are going to suffer. Travelling is a pain at times, not many DJs these days are worth travelling for (my opinion) and even if you choose one, say Soul Sam, if you follow him for a few weeks even he's going to start playing the same records. Thing is every DJ plays their latest buys, and why wouldn't they, but it can be annoying to read about DJs playing the same old same old, when if you go somewhere where Sam is on he's almost certain to play King Tut (which I like) and yet nothings said. There does seem a fair amount of hypocracy to me, but thankfully most punters can see through it.

The conversations I had over the weekend reflected some of the things Kev mentioned, we've been back 10 years, longer on the scene than the first time around, maybe complacency has set in, I'm not sure, but there was definitely a feeling of boredom amongst us chatting. Mention of the changing face of the scene, the way it's becoming a giant social club, with some using it as an dating agency.

Simple things like clapping, whatever happened to it? Thunderous clap, as one, everybody united, a sense of belonging, just seems to have slipped off the NS tundra. Before when we had central venues, people became aware of when to put in a clap, nowadays, with a million venues to choose from, its going to depreciate. The problem is politics are taking over, promoter vs promoter, how can one promoter slag off another event and pretend he/she hasn't got a vested interest. It's beyond me

Winnie:-)

  bridget said:

but surely no-one double books a nite on purpose to p**s off another venue,,THATS NOT ON!!

==================

they do around here, and some do it deliberately, if you don't wear the baggies, carry a holdall, and listen to the same 50 tunes everyweek. and they will even tell others to go to their venue because "we play better music than they do".. trust me it happens.

==============

I'm sure Kev had his tongue in his cheek when he wrote that

It obviously happens, but promoters are only copying their bigger brothers in the promotion business. And punters are just the same, for instance, my fave venues at the moment are probably the Plinston and Rugby, so I'm far more likely to post favourably in threads about those nights. I'm not asked to, but as I like them, I big them up. I try not to to the detriment of other venues (particulary those I haven't visited) but there is a definite leaning there. And I would say that's the same for most punters, find somewhere you're comfortable and accepted, you're going to say so. But what shouldn't happen IMO is to say, the playlists were blah blah blah oldies, there were people in baggies, blah blah, it's just negative. Talk about the promotion you enjoy, say why you enjoy it, but to compare it to another venue just isn't isn't right to me, unless it's a venue no longer running. For instance, Matt Smart at Rugby played a couple of records huge at the Dome, about 10 of us sitting round the table, all looked at each other and said exactly that. Not in a slagging down sort of way, in a fond memory stylee

  Winnie :-) said:

=========

Loads of points I agree with in the above. Definitely a decline in numbers, and of course where before 2 into 10 went 5 times, now it's more like 2 into 30 so numbers at most places are going to suffer. Travelling is a pain at times, not many DJs these days are worth travelling for (my opinion) and even if you choose one, say Soul Sam, if you follow him for a few weeks even he's going to start playing the same records. Thing is every DJ plays their latest buys, and why wouldn't they, but it can be annoying to read about DJs playing the same old same old, when if you go somewhere where Sam is on he's almost certain to play King Tut (which I like) and yet nothings said. There does seem a fair amount of hypocracy to me, but thankfully most punters can see through it.

The conversations I had over the weekend reflected some of the things Kev mentioned, we've been back 10 years, longer on the scene than the first time around, maybe complacency has set in, I'm not sure, but there was definitely a feeling of boredom amongst us chatting. Mention of the changing face of the scene, the way it's becoming a giant social club, with some using it as an dating agency.

Simple things like clapping, whatever happened to it? Thunderous clap, as one, everybody united, a sense of belonging, just seems to have slipped off the NS tundra. Before when we had central venues, people became aware of when to put in a clap, nowadays, with a million venues to choose from, its going to depreciate. The problem is politics are taking over, promoter vs promoter, how can one promoter slag off another event and pretend he/she hasn't got a vested interest. It's beyond me

Winnie:-)

. . . some using it as a dating agency!

not 'speed' dating I hope!

  hertssoulgirl said:

. . . some using it as a dating agency!

not 'speed' dating I hope!

============

Is there any other kind??

  Winnie :-) said:

============

Is there any other kind??

  hertssoulgirl said:

==========

We are talking about the northern scene here Karen, has it's rules and regulations you know. I have a friend who's never touched whizz in ............... life, but always carries a small bag with ................... as............. thinks it's in the rules

  bridget said:

they do around here, and some do it deliberately, if you don't wear the baggies, carry a holdall, and listen to the same 50 tunes everyweek. and they will even tell others to go to their venue because "we play better music than they do".. trust me it happens.

Youv'e got first hand experience of this , we're just starting out.

Maybe we're not on the radar yet!!!

see you on saturday nite,where i'm sure this subject will raise its head,,but lets rise above it over a few beers!!,,KEV.

  Winnie :-) said:

==========

We are talking about the northern scene here Karen, has it's rules and regulations you know. I have a friend who's never touched whizz in ............... life, but always carries a small bag with ................... as............. thinks it's in the rules

I know we are, you know me sarcastic as ever!!

I know when I tell people I dont do gear, they dont believe me, mine is all natural hyper energy!!

Ive get everything in my bag as people who know me, from bandages, plasters and tissue, Im well prepared!!!

  hertssoulgirl said:

I know we are, you know me sarcastic as ever!!

I know when I tell people I dont do gear, they dont believe me, mine is all natural hyper energy!!

Ive get everything in my bag as people who know me, from bandages, plasters and tissue, Im well prepared!!!

===========

Your bag and it's contents were a constant source of amusement to me in Rimini, particularly when the hair products started appearing

Anyway, do you think there are too many events? I tend to favour the ones that steer clear of the 'hard sell'. If I read a flyer or a post saying, we're the best, we're better than XXX then I'm more likely to question why they're on the scene, so probably won't go. If I read a flyer or a post saying, come along, you'll enjoy it, no politics, then I'm more inclined to be interested.

  Winnie :-) said:

===========

Your bag and it's contents were a constant source of amusement to me in Rimini, particularly when the hair products started appearing

Anyway, do you think there are too many events? I tend to favour the ones that steer clear of the 'hard sell'. If I read a flyer or a post saying, we're the best, we're better than XXX then I'm more likely to question why they're on the scene, so probably won't go. If I read a flyer or a post saying, come along, you'll enjoy it, no politics, then I'm more inclined to be interested.

But the hair 'band' looked much better on you!

Ive gone to some 'smaller' not hard sell ones - music great but not advertised enough but suppose if they were maybe get some along having a moan! There are some I steer clear of which are 'well known' events - all I ever hear from people after they've been on, is 'gossip'!

  hertssoulgirl said:

But the hair 'band' looked much better on you!

===========

I'd forgotten about the hair band, seems ages since I've had my hair cut

i have moved the posts regarding 'clapping' to a new a topic.

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=37233

Shane

With regard to the number of venues, it seems logical that eventually market forces will dictate how many are active at any one time in any given area, whether or not promoters speak to each in order to avoid clashes.

Those that consistently get good numbers will survive, those that, for what ever reason, do not get the numbers in will simply fade away, and there will be a natural re-alignment of the dynamic that exists between punter and promoter.More of something is not always a good thing - quality will surely be the over-riding factor.

And if anyone believes that it is difficult for DJ's to play a consistenly varied set, look at the playlist posted by me from this weekends Solar Radio show with Danny Everard.

You tell me you wouldn't have been happy to hear that lot at a venue, and this from a man who hasn't DJ'ed for 15 years!

  Jaco said:

With regard to the number of venues, it seems logical that eventually market forces will dictate how many are active at any one time in any given area, whether or not promoters speak to each in order to avoid clashes.

Those that consistently get good numbers will survive, those that, for what ever reason, do not get the numbers in will simply fade away, and there will be a natural re-alignment of the dynamic that exists between punter and promoter.More of something is not always a good thing - quality will surely be the over-riding factor.

And if anyone believes that it is difficult for DJ's to play a consistenly varied set, look at the playlist posted by me from this weekends Solar Radio show with Danny Everard.

You tell me you wouldn't have been happy to hear that lot at a venue, and this from a man who hasn't DJ'ed for 15 years!

============

How do you define quality, the standard of the playlists?

Or playing what the majority of the punters want?

Only asking cos the second point could go a long way to whether a night is successful or not. Whatever anybody thinks of Kev Roberts, no one can deny he attracts massive crowds to his events, therefore he's providing qaulity for the people who attend his promotions.

It's probable that the smaller promotions have recognised what Kev has, the majority want tried and trusted sounds, so provide them. Those who prefer 'upfront' tend not to go to these events, but are quick to knock the format, but it's difficult to argue with their success?

Winnie,

I was using quality in it's broadest sense, whether it be by reference to oldies or any other genre. A night will be considered successful by the punters if it gives them what they want and keeps them coming back for more. But as you know repetition of "quality" sounds in some cases will be not be sufficient and therefore the quality issue becomes one of ingenuity on behalf of the promoter/DJ. No doubting Kev Roberts brings in large crowds, though I hesitate to believe that this would be sustainable over an extended period, as history has shown us.

I would not knock the format as it's a vacuous argument to suggest it can play no part on the current scene, which it clearly does, but whether or not it provides any answers to the question of the direction of the scene, is another issue altogether and one which continues to be debated frequently, here.

  Jaco said:

Winnie,

I was using quality in it's broadest sense, whether it be by reference to oldies or any other genre. A night will be considered successful by the punters if it gives them what they want and keeps them coming back for more. But as you know repetition of "quality" sounds in some cases will be not be sufficient and therefore the quality issue becomes one of ingenuity on behalf of the promoter/DJ. No doubting Kev Roberts brings in large crowds, though I hesitate to believe that this would be sustainable over an extended period, as history has shown us.

I would not knock the format as it's a vacuous argument to suggest it can play no part on the current scene, which it clearly does, but whether or not it provides any answers to the question of the direction of the scene, is another issue altogether and one which continues to be debated frequently, here.

============

That it does

I think if was possible for Kev to get Stoke on a monthly basis, he could probably just about sustain numbers of around a 1000. Any more than monthly though and I would very much doubt it. But he's done it on a diet of providing oldies (although he has improved the DJ roster recently) and I think that's what the vast majority of smaller promotions have caught onto, provide oldies and you get a reasonable client base.

i find it healthy scene and there are many nights here in Peterborough in fact more like 1 a month and you will see me go to most of them right track soul club, soul ole, fleet, crescet at times and if the old still has them again back there. can't go outside of Peterborough but the ones i go to is enough.