R & B Classics

[Jaco]

You know how we refer to a lot of Northern as "classics" - list would run into '000s but would generally include the usual suspects (often by reference to the heady days of the era's in which they were discovered)

Do the R & B crowd refer to tracks from that genre in the same manner?

Seems logical to believe that they would and if so what would be included?

Curious as I would like to understand that which is specifically labelled as R & B within the scene as opposed to something else and then perhaps try to listen accordingly.

As always, apologies if this has been done before.

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

You know how we refer to a lot of Northern as "classics" - list would run into '000s but would generally include the usual suspects (often by reference to the heady days of the era's in which they were discovered)

Do the R & B crowd refer to tracks from that genre in the same manner?

Seems logical to believe that they would and if so what would be included?

Curious as I would like to understand that which is specifically labelled as R & B within the scene as opposed to something else and then perhaps try to listen accordingly.

As always, apologies if this has been done before.

I'm very much with you on this Jaco and also very curious to know. I hear stuff being played at R&B clubs but then get told that track couldn't be R&B in a million years.

As a Rookie, I find myself very embarrased in the company of some when it comes to asking questions but there are others out there who are very keen to help too.

I've recently joined a Yahoo group and the people involved seem to have such a wealth of knowledge. Many of them DJs and all helpful, friendly with so many good choons to share with us all.

I'm going to really enjoy watching this space and i hope no one has a dig because its been done before. I'm just grateful of any replies to a question that i've wanted to ask too!

[Guest dundeedavie]

classics ....... hmm "somewhere down the line "- johnnie taylor

"can't please you" - jimmy robins

"somebody's always trying" - ted taylor

"stupidity" - solomon burke

i spose these would all be classed as classics

[Guest]

classics ....... hmm "somewhere down the line "- johnnie taylor

"can't please you" - jimmy robins

"somebody's always trying" - ted taylor

"stupidity" - solomon burke

i spose these would all be classed as classics

Great RnB tunes there buddy, Classic RnB to me would be Tommy Tucker ...Slim Harpo.....Jimmy Reed....Little walter...etc...all the early 60s UK released Mod biggies?

[Guest Rowly]

Great RnB tunes there buddy, Classic RnB to me would be Tommy Tucker ...Slim Harpo.....Jimmy Reed....Little walter...etc...all the early 60s UK released Mod biggies?

Yeah... add John Lee Hooker, Muddy Waters, BB King, Ray Charles, Lightnin Slim, Jr Wells, Buddy Guy, Frank Frost, Jr Parker, Chuck Berry, T Bone Walker, Howlin Wolf, Willie Dixon, Sonny Boy Williamson (both of em!) , Elmore James, Earl Hooker, King Curtis.....

[Simsy]

classics ....... hmm "somewhere down the line "- johnnie taylor

"can't please you" - jimmy robins

"somebody's always trying" - ted taylor

"stupidity" - solomon burke

i spose these would all be classed as classics

Would you call that George Cameron thing R&B?

[Guest dundeedavie]

Would you call that George Cameron thing R&B?

hmmmm an interesting question ...i play it at r'n'b nights but then i would also play it at a soul night ..... i'd call it bloody brilliant though

Davie

[Simsy]

hmmmm an interesting question ...i play it at r'n'b nights but then i would also play it at a soul night ..... i'd call it bloody brilliant though

Davie

So would I.

What did you pay for your's btw, if you don't mind me asking like ..?

[Guest dundeedavie]

So would I.

What did you pay for your's btw, if you don't mind me asking like ..?

i don't mind at all , i got it on ebay for £189 for a minter after missing out on a vg+ at £200

[Simsy]

i don't mind at all , i got it on ebay for £189 for a minter after missing out on a vg+ at £200

Worth every penny mate ..

[Guest Simon]

I used to really like that George Cameron record, paid £225 for a copy many moons ago, went off it very quickly though & sold it for the same price.

Should never be played anywhere near a Soul night IMO though, maybe at a popcorn do or some affiliated night possibly.

Simon

[Jaco]

Yeah... add John Lee Hooker, Muddy Waters, BB King, Ray Charles, Lightnin Slim, Jr Wells, Buddy Guy, Frank Frost, Jr Parker, Chuck Berry, T Bone Walker, Howlin Wolf, Willie Dixon, Sonny Boy Williamson (both of em!) , Elmore James, Earl Hooker, King Curtis.....

I kinda guessed that these artists would feature as "classics" - Question is are these the type of artists that would be played at an R & B night - Hard as Nails etc

[Guest Rowly]

I kinda guessed that these artists would feature as "classics" - Question is are these the type of artists that would be played at an R & B night - Hard as Nails etc

Certainly are Jaco. Well by me at any rate. A good mix of classics and the more obscure...

Here's my playlists from the first Hard as Nails allnighter back in Sept.

11.30 - 12.00

Jr. Wells - Checkin' on My Baby (Vanguard LP)

Wilson Pickett - She's So Good To Me (Atlantic LP)

Muddy Waters - Can't Get No Grindin' (What's The Matter With The Meal) (Chess)

Barbara West - I'm A Fool For You Baby (Ronn)

John Lee Hooker - Money (Impulse)

Luther Thomas - Upset the Town (Change)

Dorothy Berry & Jimmy Norman - I'm With You All Of The Way (Little Star)

BB King - Get Myself Somebody (Bluesway)

Jimmy Reed - Shame Shame Shame (Stateside)

Slim Harpo - I'm Your Bread Maker Baby (Excello)

Lonnie Lester - You Can't Go (Nu-Tone)

Big Ella - The Queen (Rush)

1.30 - 2.00

Ray Scott & The Scottsmen - Right Now (Decca)

Toni & The Showmen - Try My Love (Ten Star)

Zu Zu Blues Band - Zu Zu Man (A&M)

Cookie Jackson - Do You Still Love Me (Progress)

Dorothy Berry - Don't Give Me Love (Big 3)

Johnnie Mae Mathews - Two Sided Thing (Big Hit)

Sharen Clarke & the Product Of Time - Mama Didn't Lie (Sho Come True ) (APT)

Little Milton - Feel So Bad (Checker)

Fred Hughes - I Keep Tryin' (Exodus)

T.Bone Walker - Long Skirt Baby Blues (Bluesway LP)

Sonny Rhodes - You Better Stop (Galaxy)

Jimmy Holiday - Love Me One More Time (Diplomacy)

5.00 - 5.30

Big Amos - Move With You Baby (Hi)

Big Lucky - Stop Arguing Over Me (M.O.C.)

The O'Jays - Girl Machine (Imperial)

Mighty Joe Young - Suffering Soul (Webcor)

Big Daddy Rogers - I'm A Big Man (Midas)

Dyke & The Blazers - City Dump (Original Sound)

Otis Clay - Three is A Crowd (One-derful)

John Lee Hooker - Big Legs, Tight Skirt (Vee Jay)

Ike Turner & His Kings Of Rhythm - The New Breed Pt.1 (Sue)

Slim Harpo - Don't Start Cryin' Now (Excello)

Albert Collins - Cookin' Catfish (20th Century)

Barbara Dane - I'm On My Way (3-trey)

Ola V Harper - I Wanna Weep (Jewel)

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

Blinding sets from Hard As Nails Rowly!

The 1.30-2 slot wouldn't see my backside sitting down at all. I'm off to investigate the tracks that i don't know now also.

Teresa

[pow wow mik]

Blinding sets from Hard As Nails Rowly!

The 1.30-2 slot wouldn't see my backside sitting down at all. I'm off to investigate the tracks that i don't know now also.

Teresa

There's 2 main styles of R&B I think - the 'traditional' sounding R&B that was most popular in England in the 60s - John Lee Hooker, Sonny Boy Williamson, Howlin Wolf etc. and the type that took the R&B rhythms & chords but added big city / pop production values - and I guess in the end became soul.

I got to be honest and say I prefer the more produced big city sound made with arrangers, bandleaders & bigger bands. I often find the traditional r&b sound a bit formularic and samey but I really like examples of the more traditional sound too, like Howlin Wolf 'spoonful', Sonny Boy williamson 'help me', John Lee Hooker 'Money' etc.

There's no line where one style stops and the other starts and loads of great artists and records cross over into both styles. Tommy Tucker, for example, released the very nice but certainly more pop/soul flavoured 'Oh What A Feelin' in the UK the same year as the more traditional sounding 'Long Tall Shorty'.

I think any claims that one is more 'authentic' than the other is bogus, I dont think authenticity is relevent to pop music. I actually think that the Englishman's tendency towards retro-ism & purism kept the traditional blues / R&B sound popular in this country long after American R&B artists really had moved on. But to an extent I think the Americans probably fell into two camps - those who embraced the pop/soul movement pioneered by labels like tamla & King/federal and those who stuck to the authentic sound. A lot of the old blues men never even added horns or anything to their sound and it was pretty much the same in 1970 as it was in 1950. I dont really see the point of that.

R&B classics would most likely be of the more traditional style, as that has been popular and played longer, the more produced stuff only really becoming popular in the last 10 years.

Classics of the latter style would be stuff like Mike Pedicin 'burnt toast & black coffee', Joanne Henderson, Five Royales, Joe Tex 'I wanna be free', Ernie Washington ' lonesome Shack', Cookie Jackson ' i got to know', Charles Sheffield etc etc. But these have far from hit the mainstream in the way stuff like John Lee Hookers 'boom boom' or Muddy Waters 'I'm a man' did.

The soul scene takes more to the better produced, and often later, r&b as it shares more production values with 60s soul.

sorry for the ramble

Edited November 11, 2006 by mik parry

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

Please don't apologise for the ramble.... i'm enjoying reading! Better still.... i'm enjoying the listening, the learning and the dancing.

I appreaciate the replies and the effort put into them.

[Jaco]

Certainly are Jaco. Well by me at any rate. A good mix of classics and the more obscure...

Here's my playlists from the first Hard as Nails allnighter back in Sept.

I think that this is exactly what I was hoping for - many thanks for the input.

11.30 - 12.00

Jr. Wells - Checkin' on My Baby (Vanguard LP)

Wilson Pickett - She's So Good To Me (Atlantic LP)

Muddy Waters - Can't Get No Grindin' (What's The Matter With The Meal) (Chess)

Barbara West - I'm A Fool For You Baby (Ronn)

John Lee Hooker - Money (Impulse)

Luther Thomas - Upset the Town (Change)

Dorothy Berry & Jimmy Norman - I'm With You All Of The Way (Little Star)

BB King - Get Myself Somebody (Bluesway)

Jimmy Reed - Shame Shame Shame (Stateside)

Slim Harpo - I'm Your Bread Maker Baby (Excello)

Lonnie Lester - You Can't Go (Nu-Tone)

Big Ella - The Queen (Rush)

1.30 - 2.00

Ray Scott & The Scottsmen - Right Now (Decca)

Toni & The Showmen - Try My Love (Ten Star)

Zu Zu Blues Band - Zu Zu Man (A&M)

Cookie Jackson - Do You Still Love Me (Progress)

Dorothy Berry - Don't Give Me Love (Big 3)

Johnnie Mae Mathews - Two Sided Thing (Big Hit)

Sharen Clarke & the Product Of Time - Mama Didn't Lie (Sho Come True ) (APT)

Little Milton - Feel So Bad (Checker)

Fred Hughes - I Keep Tryin' (Exodus)

T.Bone Walker - Long Skirt Baby Blues (Bluesway LP)

Sonny Rhodes - You Better Stop (Galaxy)

Jimmy Holiday - Love Me One More Time (Diplomacy)

5.00 - 5.30

Big Amos - Move With You Baby (Hi)

Big Lucky - Stop Arguing Over Me (M.O.C.)

The O'Jays - Girl Machine (Imperial)

Mighty Joe Young - Suffering Soul (Webcor)

Big Daddy Rogers - I'm A Big Man (Midas)

Dyke & The Blazers - City Dump (Original Sound)

Otis Clay - Three is A Crowd (One-derful)

John Lee Hooker - Big Legs, Tight Skirt (Vee Jay)

Ike Turner & His Kings Of Rhythm - The New Breed Pt.1 (Sue)

Slim Harpo - Don't Start Cryin' Now (Excello)

Albert Collins - Cookin' Catfish (20th Century)

Barbara Dane - I'm On My Way (3-trey)

Ola V Harper - I Wanna Weep (Jewel)

[Jaco]

Mik, certainly not a ramble - very informative and interesting understanding of the different styles etc. Cheers.