elvis memorabilia - is this the future ?

[Mike]

There's an article here about the market dropping out of elvis memorabilia

 

Can’t help falling in price: why Elvis memorabilia is plummeting in value
As the King’s fans die of old age, and their collections hit the second-hand market, vintage Elvis records have never been cheaper

https://www.theguardian.com/music/shortcuts/2017/may/07/elvis-presley-memorabilia-plummeting-in-price

is this a forewarning for us all about what things be like in say 10 or so years time ?

[TOAD]

definitely as large collections hit the market

[Steve L]

Absolutely, its inevitable. People who argues otherwise (and there are a lot whenever this subject comes up) are deluding themselves

[Amsterdam Russ]

In some respects I'm surprised to see the Elvis market go in decline, simply because I guess I've always considered him to be musically immortal. But, as has been pointed out, with older collectors dying and new ones being fewer, the demand - and the interest - is clearly fading. 

I guess the other aspect is the generational one: those who loved Elvis first time around passed on their enthusiasm to their own kids, who would have seen and heard The King on TV/radio, etc. The grandchildren of the original generation will have their own kids, making Elvis as much as four generations away from the present day. 

What Elvis needs is another comeback. Or rather, his estate does. Just as the Northern Soul film and ongoing media interest has fuelled something of a resurgence on the scene, so Elvis needs to be a presence in modern life if he is not to be forgotten.

I recall when Prince was going through his "no name" phase, he was described by a music journalist as "The man formerely known as collectable". Of course, Prince gave the greatest gift to his estate and his legacy by up and dying. Prince is the new Elvis in posthumous terms, perhaps.

The decline of the "Northern" scene and thus the collectability of the records is inevitable - at some point. My own feeling is that in the shorter term "Northern Soul" be subsumed into a greater vintage "Black Music" scene. The collecting aspect will focus on whatever the preferred style of the day might be, and filter out stuff that doesn't meet that criteria - pretty much like today, of course.

And just as Doo-Wop is breathing its last as a collectible musical form, so 90 per cent of Northern will go out of vogue except for a few die-hards, who'll continue to pay handsomely for the rarest of the rare. 

[Sweeney]

Interesting article.

Things to consider - Most of the people that had their minds blown by Elvis in the 50s didn't generally pass their love of Elvis onto the next generation. The next generation usually have their own heroes that reflect the age in which they live. It's unhip to like things your parents like. Hence little demand for the recorded artefact - which in most cases are readily available on cd/digital download anyway. The vast majority of his records aren't that rare to begin with and the internet enticed many copies of big-selling records out of the woodwork meaning that prices have settled at a more realistic level.

Demand - Elvis was a cultural phenomenon rather than a genre of music. There simply aren't loads of Elvis all-niters or Elvis Weekenders taking place on a regular basis nationally and internationally like there is with the Rare Soul scene. The Rare Soul scene also benefits from not being about a single artist and has always been about the recorded artefact and gatherings that celebrate the music rather than the cult of personality. Other record collecting scenes like the Doo-Wop and Blues scenes were all about relatively few collectors obsessively finding stuff the others didn't own in virtual secrecy without a significant social scene attached. Prices were high but demand was confined to a few. Once they started to die off there wasn't really a newer generation to take their place.

I've been wondering since the late 90s when the bubble is going to burst with the Rare Soul scene - so have many others. I guess it will eventually when there are more records than the perceived demand for them - but it seems incredibly buoyant at the moment. The problem is arguably the opposite - you see less and less records in mint/mint - condition than you did back in the 90s or even ten years ago. Plus people seem willing to suspend belief (and common sense) and regularly pay incredible amounts for the more popular (rather than rarer) trophy records.

 

[Spacehopper]

personally I cant wait for the bubble to burst! when all the collections sitting on shelves of older collectors and  older dj boxes are up for sale surely the price must come down to a more realistic price for the majority of us who can only dream of owning certain records but refuse to buy and play bootlegs, who knows maybe the price drop will also put a stop to the bootleggers! I also hope a lot of  the punters and promoters who have joined since the film with their baggy trousers,obsession with 'proper' northern (see also only played at wigan) their stalls full of tat and djs who play boots will get bored and move on..less gigs more open minded punters at those gigs happy days!...lets wait n see

dean

[maslar]

The  article was written by someone  who doesn't  have a clue about record collecting or its trends. Back in the late  70s/early 80s Elvis (along with the Beatles) was right at the top of the collecting tree. Since then however his dominance has declined significantly. That doesn't mean that some of his recordings aren't still hugely collectible and still fetch very high prices.  

On the  Sun singles -  The writer implies their value has diminished. Really? What he fails to recognise is that only records in mint condition fetch the highest prices. I wouldn't be at all surprised if five mint Sun singles came on the market today they wouldn't fetch prices as high as any they've ever fetched. (That's mint as in mint. Not near mint, not excellent. Mint as in just like brand new). That's where the real demand among serious collectors is.

He then goes on to talk about the sale of a "Unheard one of a kind" acetate. Guide price £12000. Sold for £6000. Most Elvis collectors believe it to be worth a fraction of that final price. In other words the auction house's estimation was pure BS. The fact that it sold for as much as £6000 raised many eyebrows. This is an indication of nothing. Certainly not falling prices.

Why didn't the writer mention the sale only two years ago of Elvis' first acetate - which sold for  $300000.  That's three - hundred - thousand - dollars..  say it slowly.

Mindless chatter about "median prices" is completely meaningless. Median price means sweet fa. The Record Collector Guide is just that - a guide. The clue is in the title. Even so the prices shown in it are again based on MINT condition. After that prices drop fast. A £180 for mint would probably only fetch £60 in Excellent. Good or "very good" (ie crap) only £5 to £10 as collection filler. "Median" is an absurd indicator . The guy hasn't got a clue.   

Collector or investor?  There is a difference. Only a fool would invest in records and then not watch the market like a hawk for any adverse trends. Just like stocks and shares. Those who collect for just  collecting sake do so as a hobby/passion. If prices crash then that's going to be welcome to a true collector. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by maslar
typo

[Girdwoodinc]

Was it not Jack White of the White Stripes fame that bought that acetate and had it remastered for RSD? 

[Bbrich]

spot on maslar!   I would not be bothered about falling prices. If i wanted to trade a £100 record for another £100 record today, it would be the same to me if i did the deal in 5 years when they were both worth £50.  & the same monthly spend on records will buy twice as many if the prices dropped by half.  A price drop would of course hit those hoping to 'cash in' on a collection acquired at todays prices if the market drops. 

[Frankie Crocker]

Ever the optimist when it comes to Northern vinyl, the music will last for ever. Some records will wear out, others will break, but the volume of 45's out there ensures a future for the music. Given the sounds are the best on the planet and there's a lack of new music being produced, Northern and it's close relatives will continue to thrive. Forgotten tunes will come back into fashion as DJ's look for something fresh. Those on modest budgets will enjoy the sounds on one format or another and probably buy up the legacy of previous collectors in decades to come - by then, Holly St James will sell for £10,000, a month's wages, and collectors will be just as skint as they are now.

[maslar]

Also of course the internet has changed everything, (most obviously ebay.). This  in particular relates to  the kind of items that the dealer says he "can't give away" nowadays - the £10 to £15. items of two decades ago. It's these items with their "book prices" that provide the best potential bargain finds on ebay. Trying to compare the situation 20 years ago to today is a little pointless. Back in the 70s, 80s, 90s dealers ruled the roost and most sellers tended to price according to publications such as Record Collector.    

[Geeselad]

is there any evidence that this is happening generally with rock and roll?

[Steve L]

On 10/05/2017 at 20:32, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Ever the optimist when it comes to Northern vinyl, the music will last for ever. Some records will wear out, others will break, but the volume of 45's out there ensures a future for the music. Given the sounds are the best on the planet and there's a lack of new music being produced, Northern and it's close relatives will continue to thrive.  

I admire your optimism mate but can't agree with the logic you're applying.

Its the volume of collectors willing to pay money that will affect the value of records, which is what we're talking about, the number will inevitably decrease - lets not beat around the bush, a lot of us will be dead in 10/20 years!

Best sounds on the planet? Of course I agree with that but again, we're in a tiny minority that will become tinier due to my point above.

People put forward the argument of new/younger people coming along and worldwide interest etc but i just don't buy it