Robbk Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Detroit '60s Soul artist and songwriter, Harry Lee Gates, lead singer of The Dramatics on Crackerjack, The Caravelles on Starmaker, and solo artist, "Lee" Gates on Enterprise, also seems to be Louis Curry on Detroit's M-S and Reel Records. ALL of his cuts on those two Detroit late 1960s labels were Fred Brown/Joe Hunter productions published by their Brohun Music, and had Gates as a co-writer of the songs. Listen to "A Toast To You" and "Captivated" on M-S Records and "You're Just Plain Nice" on Reel Records. Gates' voice is unmistakable. I can't believe I didn't notice that all these years. I wonder if he was also the lead singer of Motown's (Miracle) mystery group, The Equadors. "You're My Desire" sounds like he might not be the lead. But, "Someone To Call My Own" sounds a lot like him. What do you all think? 1 1
Mick Holdsworth Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 On Lee Gates "Nothing But Wonderful", his voice does sound like "You're Just Plain Nice", and there's even more similarity between parts of the two songs themselves. I can't remember how the Equadors songs sound, so will have to have a listen, but certainly the above two are vocally pretty similar. Yes, think you are right. Cheers Mick
Robbk Posted March 12, 2017 Author Posted March 12, 2017 Not many lee gates or Louis Curry fans here, eh?
Premium Stuff Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Robb - having listened to all of them I can't agree
Robbk Posted March 13, 2017 Author Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Premium Stuff said: Robb - having listened to all of them I can't agree Isn't it way too much of a coincidence that Fred Brown and Joe Hunter produced arranged and recorded two people with such similar voices who were both Detroit artists. If the voices don't sound exactly alike, we must realise that "Toy Soldier" was recorded in 1963, Lee Gates' Enterprise record in 1965, and the Louis Curry cuts in 1967 and 1968. He got a little older, and more experienced in singing. But, the tones in people's voices are unique, and inherited from their genes. Which is why twins sound almost identical, and siblings and children and parents share a familial tone. That is why Dee Dee and Dionne Warwick sound so close, and even cousins Cissy and Whitney Houston have voices very similar to the Warwicks. I hear that unique familial tone in both singers. So, to me, I would say that they are no further removed than brothers. Which leads me to my original theory that Lee Gates on Enterprise was Harry Gates' brother. But that theory was thrown out when my friend, Detroit Soul producer and record masterer, Ron Murphy was told that Harry Gates was Harry Lee Gates, and had gone by his middle name on the Enterprise release. But, perhaps Louis Curry is Harry Gates' brother, using a stage name? Brown and Hunter would have met him through his brother, or Gates' fellow group members. I think you'll have to admit that Fred Brown and Joe Hunter being his production team and being Harry Gates', as well, is too much of a coincidence. Also, Harry Gates "disappeared" just when Louis Curry came on the scene. That's too much of a coincidence for me. How do you explain "H. Gates" being a credited co-writer on more than half of Louis Curry's songs, if Gates is not either Curry, himself, or Curry's brother? Still, Gates disappearing as a singer, just about the time Curry first appears, is too much of a coincidence for me to believe they are brothers. Singers voices change a bit through their careers. But for me, that one unique individual tone is there in both Gates' known Dramatics, Caravelles and Lee Gates leads, and Louis Curry's recordings. The only thing I propose that might be far-fetched is that Gates might also have been the lead singer of Motown's (Miracle's) Equadors. The voices sound close enough, at least on "Someone To Call My Own" to be possible. And it is really odd that a singer with such an unique and beautiful voice just made that one 1961 record, and nobody on the Detroit '60s scene knows who were the members of that group. Why did that super singer not make other recordings? I think he did, leading Starmaker's Caravelles in 1963, and making the Enterprise record in '65, and the Reel record in '67, and several M-S records in '67 and '68. Edited March 13, 2017 by RobbK
Ady Croasdell Posted March 13, 2017 Posted March 13, 2017 Hi Robb, Dave Hamilton managed Louis in 1967 and a contract dated March of that year syas Louis was his real name and Lonnie was a stage name that he presumably used for a short time that he was with Dave and Darryl. Dave had songwriting tapes from Harry Gates and Cee Wills separately so I doubt very much that they were the same guy. I'll check with Darryl Goolsby who was Dave's partner and also on the contract. ady 3
Chalky Posted March 13, 2017 Posted March 13, 2017 Here is a picture of Louis from Discogs....not sure of its origin.
Premium Stuff Posted March 13, 2017 Posted March 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, chalky said: Here is a picture of Louis from Discogs....not sure of its origin. I googled "Harry Lee Gates" and got this picture (no really) - so it's definitely a different bloke 1
Robbk Posted March 13, 2017 Author Posted March 13, 2017 Any chance they could be brothers or cousins? I recognise a familial tone shared by them (as cousin Cissy Houston has with The Warwick sisters).
Robbk Posted March 13, 2017 Author Posted March 13, 2017 I suppose Dave was asked long ago if he knew who the members of The Equadors were.
Ady Croasdell Posted March 14, 2017 Posted March 14, 2017 5 hours ago, RobbK said: I suppose Dave was asked long ago if he knew who the members of The Equadors were. I doubt it, Dave died before he had been extensively interviewed
Robbk Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 5 hours ago, weingarden said: McKinley Jackson would know the answer. Why would McKinley Jackson know who was in a totally obscure Motown group from 1961, when he was barely in his teens then, and hadn't worked for Motown by that time? And if he DOES know, how is it that that information never got to anyone with Universal/Motown or into the collector Motown/Soul historians community?
Weingarden Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) I was addressing the Louis Curry identity question. They're friends. Get up on the wrong side of bed this morning, Robb? Edited March 16, 2017 by weingarden Thought of something to add 2
Robbk Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 4 hours ago, weingarden said: I was addressing the Louis Curry identity question. They're friends. Get up on the wrong side of bed this morning, Robb? No. I just made an assumption, as you didn't refer to which question Jackson could answer. Now I know we can find out if Curry and Gates are related.
Blackpoolsoul Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 On 16/03/2017 at 23:11, Robbk said: No. I just made an assumption, as you didn't refer to which question Jackson could answer. Now I know we can find out if Curry and Gates are related. I am new to this site and found this comment from Nashville guitarist Vern Pilders who stated he played guitar on the tunes Perhaps someone can contact him on You Tube (I am not a member) to see if he can help 1
Guest Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) I realise I'm more than a tad late on all this which is a theme of my life. I've been playing Kent label's Pied Piper of Detroit compilation entitled 'Follow Your Soul' compiled by Ady and released in 2015. A Harry Gates track is included 'Love Will Find A Way', an unreleased cut until this compilation. As always Ady adds some interesting information stating that gates was primarily a songwriter for the Detroit based Enterprise label. The Gates cut uses the same track as Tony Hester's ' Just Can't Leave You' ( a far better record I think). Note the Dramatics connexion. Ady doesn't make the connexion with the lead singer of Dramatics but the vocals on 'Toy Soldier' certainly sound like the same singer as on the Pied Piper compilation. However on RobbK's assertion that Gates is Louis Curry I don't believe they are the same singer. Curry has a higher range and is a superior singer. I can find nothing on the WebSphere to confirm a blood link or indeed any meaningful link. Edited October 28, 2019 by Firecrest grammar consistency
Robbk Posted October 23, 2019 Author Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) On 23/10/2019 at 04:07, Firecrest said: I realise I'm more than a tad late on all this which is a theme of my life. I've been playing Kent label's Pied Piper of Detroit compilation entitled 'Follow Your Soul' compiled by Ady and released in 2015. A Harry Gates track is included 'Love Will Find A Way', an unreleased cut until this compilation. As always Ady adds some interesting information stating that gates was primarily a songwriter for the Detroit based Enterprise label. The Gates cut uses the same track as Tony Hester's ' Just Can't Leave You' ( a far better record I think). Note the Dramatics connexion. Ady doesn't make the connection with the lead singer of Dramatics but the vocals on 'Toy Soldier' certainly sound like the same singer as on the Pied Piper compilation. However on RobbK's assertion that Gates is Louis Curry I don't believe they are the same singer. Curry has a higher range and is a superior singer. I can find nothing on the WebSphere to confirm a blood link or indeed any meaningful link. Thanks. I think it has been well established that Louis Curry cannot possibly be Harry Gates. And there has been no connection found that there is any family relationship. Edited September 15, 2021 by Robbk
Larsc Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 On 23/10/2019 at 17:24, Robbk said: And there has been no connectioned found that there is any family relationship. Did anyone ever ask McKinley Jackson?
Blackpoolsoul Posted March 16, 2021 Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) On 27/10/2019 at 07:13, LarsC said: Did anyone ever ask McKinley Jackson? This info from a video On many of the labels M-S sessions were .Tp) Thomas Bowles (baritone sax) Joe Hunter (p) Willie Hampton (lead g) Charlie Heardon (rh-g) Bob Babbitt (bass) Dave Hamilton (vibraphone) Uriel Jones (drums) + female chorus United Sound studios. Product by Fred Brown and arranged by McKinley Jackson . This single reached the 27th spot on the Billboard soul charts in January 1968. A Toast To You / I'll Try Again Tomorrow Produced by Fred Brown and arranged by McKinley Jackson On 23/10/2019 at 16:24, Robbk said: Thanks. I think it has been well established that Louis Curry cannot possibly be Harry Gates. And there has been no connectioned found that there is any family relationship. I did find this Edited March 16, 2021 by Blackpoolsoul
Billy Jo Jim Bob Posted March 16, 2021 Posted March 16, 2021 Always loved his "you're just plain nice"...great tune.
The Yank Posted March 16, 2021 Posted March 16, 2021 Louis also cut a few tracks at Terra Shirma according to this article from Billboard in 1968-
Tlscapital Posted March 21, 2021 Posted March 21, 2021 On 16/03/2021 at 18:24, The Yank said: Louis also cut a few tracks at Terra Shirma according to this article from Billboard in 1968- Yes his wonderful M-S sides.
Recommended Posts
Get involved with Soul Source
Add your comments now
Join Soul Source
A free & easy soul music affair!
Join Soul Source now!Log in to Soul Source
Jump right back in!
Log in now!