Record shipping from the USA

[Liamgp]

Can someone tell me how large finds of records were shipped from the US?

Supposing you found several thousand 45s, how did you go about getting them back to the UK and were there any problems such as customs etc?

 

[Jimmy Mack]

i would pick out the best ones take them with you on the plane the next best to family and friends the bulk on a boat thats how i'd do it .

[Dothe45]

Yeah the same for me. I was there in  72.  Got plenty of goodies. Brought them back and played them to Jebby & I levene    Best ones in the suitcase. Ship the rest   Good old days 

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

23 hours ago, LiamGP said:

Can someone tell me how large finds of records were shipped from the US?

Supposing you found several thousand 45s, how did you go about getting them back to the UK and were there any problems such as customs etc?

 

If you just quickly google a local shipping / logistics company in your area, they are usually hooked up globally with partners overseas. Normally they can make all the necessary arrangements for you and will be aware of tariffs and duties and will be able to give you a complete cost "door to door". Normally they will rent a container or space within a container depending on the size of shipment. Take the best ones out first though.

Info comes from a guy I know who used to import bathroom stuff from China and it was all taken care of by the shippers.

[Liamgp]

20 minutes ago, Andy Mac said:

If you just quickly google a local shipping / logistics company in your area, they are usually hooked up globally with partners overseas. Normally they can make all the necessary arrangements for you and will be aware of tariffs and duties and will be able to give you a complete cost "door to door". Normally they will rent a container or space within a container depending on the size of shipment. Take the best ones out first though.

Info comes from a guy I know who used to import bathroom stuff from China and it was all taken care of by the shippers.

Thanks, although I'm really just curious about how people did this in the 1970s more than today - i.e. I haven't got loads of records to ship myself!

[Chalky]

Shipping rates for a container have never been cheaper.  As Andy says find a shipping agent and they will do it all for you, all you have to do is get the goods to them or they can arrange collection.  We collect stuff for shipping/export and it can be one pallet our a full load (33 euro pallets).

I know one dealer who recently had stock delivered via container and it has been done like that over the years too.

Edited March 5, 2017 by chalky

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

1 hour ago, LiamGP said:

Thanks, although I'm really just curious about how people did this in the 1970s more than today - i.e. I haven't got loads of records to ship myself!

Its always been done that way. There are only so many 45's you can get in your hand luggage

[Rick Cooper]

On 04/03/2017 at 16:29, LiamGP said:

Can someone tell me how large finds of records were shipped from the US?

Supposing you found several thousand 45s, how did you go about getting them back to the UK and were there any problems such as customs etc?

 

Liam

Back in the 1970s I worked at Global in Manchester who shipped records from the US. Two methods were used depending on the quantity and value. Air freight was used for records, LPs and singles, that Ed Balbier had picked from the various warehouses in Philly and New Jersey. They were packed at his premises in Philly and taken to the Airport. On arrival in Manchester I would go to pick them up in the company VW camper van. This would take around 50 boxes of records, singles in 200 and LPs in 25 or 50 count boxes. This would have been fairly expensive but must have been worth it as the stock sold quickly. Customs duty and shipping costs were paid to the agent at Manchester airport.

Two or three times a year Balbier sent over a container load of bulk stock and sometimes a mixed parcel of singles he had got from somewhere or other. These would take a month or so to arrive in the UK and then put on a lorry to delivery to Manchester. As the singles were totally random they could include some good stuff as well as rubbish, but as the shipping costs were a lot lower it didn't matter too much.

Ed Balbier also packed a suitcase full of singles when he came back to England.

I think other dealers probably did much the same. Soul Bowl had a lot of stuff sent by container but probably used air freight for the most expensive titles. Record Corner and Selectadisc would have used airfreight as they were bringing in titles that were  needed quickly.

Some collectors who travelled the US may have posted records as they found them as it was hard work, and risky, carrying hundreds of singles on the Greyhound bus. 

Here are pics of the Philly and Manchester premises. The building with the cross is on N Broad St in Philly and the basement windows is the Manchester place. The pavement window on the left used to have a door in it were the boxes went down a chute and the red door is where they came out . Long time ago now but happy memories.

 

 

 

[Liamgp]

10 minutes ago, Rick Cooper said:

Liam

Back in the 1970s I worked at Global in Manchester who shipped records from the US. Two methods were used depending on the quantity and value. Air freight was used for records, LPs and singles, that Ed Balbier had picked from the various warehouses in Philly and New Jersey. They were packed at his premises in Philly and taken to the Airport. On arrival in Manchester I would go to pick them up in the company VW camper van. This would take around 50 boxes of records, singles in 200 and LPs in 25 or 50 count boxes. This would have been fairly expensive but must have been worth it as the stock sold quickly. Customs duty and shipping costs were paid to the agent at Manchester airport.

Two or three times a year Balbier sent over a container load of bulk stock and sometimes a mixed parcel of singles he had got from somewhere or other. These would take a month or so to arrive in the UK and then put on a lorry to delivery to Manchester. As the singles were totally random they could include some good stuff as well as rubbish, but as the shipping costs were a lot lower it didn't matter too much.

Ed Balbier also packed a suitcase full of singles when he came back to England.

I think other dealers probably did much the same. Soul Bowl had a lot of stuff sent by container but probably used air freight for the most expensive titles. Record Corner and Selectadisc would have used airfreight as they were bringing in titles that were  needed quickly.

Some collectors who travelled the US may have posted records as they found them as it was hard work, and risky, carrying hundreds of singles on the Greyhound bus. 

Here are pics of the Philly and Manchester premises. The building with the cross is on N Broad St in Philly and the basement windows is the Manchester place. The pavement window on the left used to have a door in it were the boxes went down a chute and the red door is where they came out . Long time ago now but happy memories.

 

 

 

That's interesting. I assume because the records were 'second hand' or deleted stock, that they weren't subject to high custom charges?

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

I vaguely recall some 45 imports in the 70's having a sticker on them saying something about duty paid. There again I could be having a senior moment.

[Rick Cooper]

1 hour ago, LiamGP said:

That's interesting. I assume because the records were 'second hand' or deleted stock, that they weren't subject to high custom charges?

Liam

I didn't see any of the invoices for customs charges but have a vague recollection that 2 or 3 hundred pounds would cover the freight and duty on an air shipment. The records I got for myself from the US by post in the 70s rarely had a customs charge, especially if they were a "gift"

Rick

[Rick Cooper]

1 hour ago, Andy Mac said:

I vaguely recall some 45 imports in the 70's having a sticker on them saying something about duty paid. There again I could be having a senior moment.

Andy

The sticker on some imports you saw was probably the MCPS stamp. This was a charge by the UK publishing collection company (Mechanical Copyright Protection Society, I think) to pay writers etc for the songs . Nothing to do with customs duty. These stickers were a right pain as in theory every imported record should have had a sticker on but most places didn't bother. Collectors bringing in a few hundred singles wouldn't have been on the MCPS hit list.

Rick

[Mouldy Old Soul]

Liam

This is the sticker that was on the records I used to get  from Soul Bowl 

 

 

 

[Roburt]

Lots of times, back in the 70's / 80's, LP's were shipped as bulk ballast in cargo ship holds from the US to UK . . . . cut-out LP's were cheap to buy, heavy & easy to load.

[Guest]

On 05/03/2017 at 18:07, Rick Cooper said:

Liam

Back in the 1970s I worked at Global in Manchester who shipped records from the US. Two methods were used depending on the quantity and value. Air freight was used for records, LPs and singles, that Ed Balbier had picked from the various warehouses in Philly and New Jersey. They were packed at his premises in Philly and taken to the Airport. On arrival in Manchester I would go to pick them up in the company VW camper van. This would take around 50 boxes of records, singles in 200 and LPs in 25 or 50 count boxes. This would have been fairly expensive but must have been worth it as the stock sold quickly. Customs duty and shipping costs were paid to the agent at Manchester airport.

Two or three times a year Balbier sent over a container load of bulk stock and sometimes a mixed parcel of singles he had got from somewhere or other. These would take a month or so to arrive in the UK and then put on a lorry to delivery to Manchester. As the singles were totally random they could include some good stuff as well as rubbish, but as the shipping costs were a lot lower it didn't matter too much.

Ed Balbier also packed a suitcase full of singles when he came back to England.

I think other dealers probably did much the same. Soul Bowl had a lot of stuff sent by container but probably used air freight for the most expensive titles. Record Corner and Selectadisc would have used airfreight as they were bringing in titles that were  needed quickly.

Some collectors who travelled the US may have posted records as they found them as it was hard work, and risky, carrying hundreds of singles on the Greyhound bus. 

Here are pics of the Philly and Manchester premises. The building with the cross is on N Broad St in Philly and the basement windows is the Manchester place. The pavement window on the left used to have a door in it were the boxes went down a chute and the red door is where they came out . Long time ago now but happy memories.

 

 

 

So did that Global premises come to be called "Yanks"?

[Rick Cooper]

4 hours ago, Roburt said:

Lots of times, back in the 70's / 80's, LP's were shipped as bulk ballast in cargo ship holds from the US to UK . . . . cut-out LP's were cheap to buy, heavy & easy to load.

John

Do you mean by this that shipping companies would want to take records at very cheap rates just to give weight to vessels that would otherwise cross the Atlantic half empty. If so I never heard or read of this when I was working at Global or Robinson's Records. By the 1970's and 80's Atlantic shipping was done on container vessels to ports such as Felixstowe and European ports such as Rotterdam. Loads carried in ships holds were phased out in the 60s so the need for a ballast cargo was obsolete. Also I'm not sure the biggest economy in the world would not have enough exports to fill ships sailing to Europe without having to send unwanted records.

All the importers I knew in the 70s sent large consignments of records by containers that were loaded in the US warehouses and not unpacked until the container was delivered to the customer. Hardly anything was loaded or unloaded at the dockside and  boxed records were definitely not easy to load. The only reference to records as ballast I've ever heard is on these sort of forums . Maybe a few records came as ballast but I doubt that it ever was a regular thing. I'd suggest it is a theory that originated in the record bar at Wigan Casino.

Rick

[Rick Cooper]

29 minutes ago, solidsoul said:

So did that Global premises come to be called "Yanks"?

Yes,sort of. Global set up Yanks Records as a retail operation in the front part of the basement. The wholesale and export business was still called Global Record Sales.

Rick

[Guest]

I got some great USA originals from Yanks.  Prices from 35p up to £1.  Things that go for decent prices now!

Did not much care for the older American guy in there though! He seemed abrupt and short tempered!

[Rick Cooper]

16 minutes ago, solidsoul said:

I got some great USA originals from Yanks.  Prices from 35p up to £1.  Things that go for decent prices now!

Did not much care for the older American guy in there though! He seemed abrupt and short tempered!

That would be the owner Ed Balbier. "Abrupt and short tempered" were two of his good points 

Rick

[Roburt]

Rick, many times ship loads coming back from the US were lighter than loads going west from Europe to the US.

To ensure ships were safe in storms, ballast was loaded to make the ship heavier. I was told LP's were loaded into containers to add weight to 'light ships'. These made a bit more money for the shippers than just filling the ballast tanks with sea water. My bro sailed from Manc (ship canal) on freighters to the Great Lakes & Argentina for some years. 

I know importers bought cut-out LP's but lots of 'everyday' shops / record shops (in Notts outfits like Fords, etc) sold LP's for 10p / 19p each ... some of these had to be sold wholesale to these outlets for around 4 / 5p each, so I don't see how an importer could make money on them at that unit price.      

[Rick Cooper]

On 09/03/2017 at 11:55, Roburt said:

Rick, many times ship loads coming back from the US were lighter than loads going west from Europe to the US.

To ensure ships were safe in storms, ballast was loaded to make the ship heavier. I was told LP's were loaded into containers to add weight to 'light ships'. These made a bit more money for the shippers than just filling the ballast tanks with sea water. My bro sailed from Manc (ship canal) on freighters to the Great Lakes & Argentina for some years. 

I know importers bought cut-out LP's but lots of 'everyday' shops / record shops (in Notts outfits like Fords, etc) sold LP's for 10p / 19p each ... some of these had to be sold wholesale to these outlets for around 4 / 5p each, so I don't see how an importer could make money on them at that unit price.      

John

Like you my brother worked on cargo ships in the 70s so I've asked him about this. But as he was mainly on Gulf oil tankers he couldn't say for sure about LPs for ballast.However he explained that the containers were loaded according to weight, the heaviest went in first to keep the weight low down. So a container with LPs in would be loaded first and ,say, one with cotton or tobacco would go on the top layers. He never heard of shipping companies buying goods just to fill containers to give ballast. The oil tankers he was on had to be  able to sail "light" as oil went one way. The ballast tanks were filled with seawater but he said the ship was OK sailing quite high out of the water, however this was around the Gulf and African coastal water not trans Atlantic.

I had a look on websites about ballast, some technical and very boring. These just referred to filing compartments at the bottom of the hull with water to act as ballast. The practice of loading anything heavy in the bottom of a ship on a return journey was obsolete by the 1920s.

So I am still not convinced records were bought by shipping companies just as ballast and then dumped on arrival. Records may have gone in the bottom layer but so would anything heavy. I think we may have to agree to disagree.

As to the very low price of LPs in some of the strange shops you would find in the 70s these could have come from importers who had made their profit from most of the container load and just needed to get rid of the residue before the next load arrived. Soul Bowl used to sell singles for 1 pence each if we bought at least 50000. The cost and trouble of storing them was more than they were worth. At Global we would sell about 20% of these to The Netherlands or Japan , make a profit on those and the rest could be sold or given away. At Robinson's Records we sold LPs for under 10p to fun fairs just to get rid and free up the space. In the 70s the dollar exchange rate was such that importing from the US was a lot cheaper than today. The big warehouses in the US would want to clear old stock and prices could be very low at certain times.

A google search of "Records as Ballast" brings up a thread on here from 2006. Most contributions are fairly inconclusive, one person states that his father says it's not true. Some people mention water damage but this happened in the US , usually from sprinkler systems in fires.

Rick

 

 

[Carty]

 I  always believed that  American comics were sent over here as ships ballast , every other newsagent had racks of them  in the sixties , all  a couple of years old . if comics , why not records ?no doubt seen as equally disposable at the time .( vaguley recall a similar thread some time back )