Northern soul collecting!! Is it a con?

[Pete S]

1 minute ago, maslar said:

 

I think sometimes it's best to go back to basics. What is record collecting? Why do you collect records? If it's as a hobby then that's something that should give enjoyment and pleasure. That's the standard definition of a hobby. If sales lists from dealers with silly prices are driving you up the wall then there's obviously not much pleasure to be had there.. A good option would be to contact them, state you find their prices ridiculous and therefore won't be receiving their lists in future. No more hair-pulling or manic outbursts in public spaces.

Record collecting is a personal pastime. Yet it seems there are some who want to tell other people what they should be collecting. That really is pretty bizarre when you think about it - but it actually does happen. Only collect “originals”? Really. Great if that's what you're into but there's a wider world out there (within the record collecting sphere).

I take issue with the subject of re-issues. All record releases are in some way unique. Therefore all have at least the potential to be collectable It's this uniqueness that makes the collecting of re-issues valid for some collectors. Particularly in certain collecting spheres, e.g. collecting a particular artist or label. To be derisory about such records shows a lack of understanding and often comes across as elitist.

The Don Gardner may cost £5000 for an original. For most collectors that's not going to be attainable. The re-issue was done on a lookalike label. Yet it's easily distinguishable. It was a limited run and furthermore is approved and endorsed by the artist himself. To say such a record s not collectible or worthy is ridiculous. It may not meet your criteria but so what? It's certainly going to meet somebody's. How much they decide to pay for it is up to them. It is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. How does anyone know how they feel when buying it? How does anyone know how someone else will feel when parting with £5000 for a record? Adrenalin rush? Maybe. Or maybe that sinking feeling Maybe it will lead to long periods of doubt and anguish? Maybe guilt? Self loathing? Inadequacy? Who knows?

Why is it of such interest anyway? In terms of actual satisfaction and pleasure they may actually get more from buying the collectible reissue. That's pretty feasible when you think about it.

Each to their own.

Mas only one problem with that - yes the DG was done with permission from Don, but then someone booted that almost identically - so now there's a boot of the reissue - I refuse to get into arguments about this sort of thing anymore but I found that to leave a very bad taste in the mouth especially as the money was going to Don directly previously.

[maslar]

2 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Mas only one problem with that - yes the DG was done with permission from Don, but then someone booted that almost identically - so now there's a boot of the reissue - I refuse to get into arguments about this sort of thing anymore but I found that to leave a very bad taste in the mouth especially as the money was going to Don directly previously.

Really, I never knew that. I suppose the only way to be certain is to get the LP? Is there anyway to tell the difference between the two?

Edited February 17, 2017 by maslar
typo

[Pete S]

Just now, maslar said:

Really I never knew that. I suppose the only way to be certain is to get the LP? Is there anyway to tell the difference between the two?

Well I've only got the LP one but there's bound to be a difference.  The same people even booted the boots of Sam Williams, Billy Woods etc.  Constantly being sold on ebay UK

[maslar]

13 hours ago, itsthebeat said:

Grapevine 45's will hold their price. All of the first yellow labelled series, bar one release, had not been pressed on a UK label before. Many collectors refer to them as UK originals because of this, even though the UK releases are some years later than the US. 

The Carol Anderson was more or less current (not exact I know but the same year). Bit hazy thinking back but I think you could still buy the  US Fee pretty easily  for a fairly low price. 

[Peter99]

51 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Well I've only got the LP one but there's bound to be a difference.  The same people even booted the boots of Sam Williams, Billy Woods etc.  Constantly being sold on ebay UK

There's a fairly recent thread about the DG boot of the legitimate re-release. 

[Daved]

I personally bu records because I love the music. If I can't afford the original I'm quite happy to have on a CD or a legit reissue (not a boot). The point is I buy it because I love the music, not as an investment. I've got loads of great LPs from the 80s that I paid £5 for and they're worth about the same now. They still sound great.

[Pete S]

I just like playing records. In my business I have to sell the originals so if it's something I like, I'll buy a reissue, boot, carver, don't care as long as I can play it at home.  I play the vinyl not the labels.

[Soul Shrews]

3 hours ago, maslar said:

The Carol Anderson was more or less current (not exact I know but the same year). Bit hazy thinking back but I think you could still buy the  US Fee pretty easily  for a fairly low price. 

Yep Soul Bowl had em for a couple of quid

Cheers Paul

[Guest Spain pete]

Love vinyl it's what my generation grew up on, alongside  cassettes and 8 tracks  but l sure wouldn't pay some of the silly prices being asked now for mediocre sounds. thank god for compilations and the wonder net 🎶🎶🎶

[Peter99]

42 minutes ago, soul shrews said:

Yep Soul Bowl had em for a couple of quid

Cheers Paul

Carol Anderson looks awesome on Fee. I had a minter which I sold in the 90's. Fabulous record too. 

[Geeselad]

4 hours ago, maslar said:

 

I think sometimes it's best to go back to basics. What is record collecting? Why do you collect records? If it's as a hobby then that's something that should give enjoyment and pleasure. That's the standard definition of a hobby. If sales lists from dealers with silly prices are driving you up the wall then there's obviously not much pleasure to be had there.. A good option would be to contact them, state you find their prices ridiculous and therefore won't be receiving their lists in future. No more hair-pulling or manic outbursts in public spaces.

Record collecting is a personal pastime. Yet it seems there are some who want to tell other people what they should be collecting. That really is pretty bizarre when you think about it - but it actually does happen. Only collect “originals”? Really. Great if that's what you're into but there's a wider world out there (within the record collecting sphere).

I take issue with the subject of re-issues. All record releases are in some way unique. Therefore all have at least the potential to be collectable It's this uniqueness that makes the collecting of re-issues valid for some collectors. Particularly in certain collecting spheres, e.g. collecting a particular artist or label. To be derisory about such records shows a lack of understanding and often comes across as elitist.

The Don Gardner may cost £5000 for an original. For most collectors that's not going to be attainable. The re-issue was done on a lookalike label. Yet it's easily distinguishable. It was a limited run and furthermore is approved and endorsed by the artist himself. To say such a record s not collectible or worthy is ridiculous. It may not meet your criteria but so what? It's certainly going to meet somebody's. How much they decide to pay for it is up to them. It is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. How does anyone know how they feel when buying it? How does anyone know how someone else will feel when parting with £5000 for a record? Adrenalin rush? Maybe. Or maybe that sinking feeling Maybe it will lead to long periods of doubt and anguish? Maybe guilt? Self loathing? Inadequacy? Who knows?

Why is it of such interest anyway? In terms of actual satisfaction and pleasure they may actually get more from buying the collectible reissue. That's pretty feasible when you think about it.

Each to their own.

personally I can see why certain boots would be collectable, they show the culture of the scene, albeit a perhaps negative aspect. and have their own intrintic value as artefacts. I have Zepplin 1 on a Usssr issue in a cheaply made printed paper sleeve, illegal at the time and not official, but to me infinitely more desirable than a standard UK issue, even with the 'blue atlantic badge'. worth less monetarily but in terms of relevance more important imho.   However its also an intrinsic part of NS culture that you ALWAYS play OVO, and that as always should stand, regardless of the cultural credibility of bootlegs.   

[Guest Ivor Jones]

Edit

Edited February 17, 2017 by Ivor Jones

[Guest Ivor Jones]

On 15 February 2017 at 19:01, Mal C said:

Northern soul collecting!! Is it a con?  An overwhelming 'Yes'... 

Well having just read an email update I got from a well known dealer who I won't mention, I'd have to say so.... the prices that are being quoted on common cheap records is absolutely gob smacking! 

I dont think ill I'll get much praise for saying this from you wheeler dealers on here, but I'm sorry you would have to be a fool to pay these prices, my opinion, you are throwing your money away, literally...

Robert Thomas - Salvation, is a 20 quid record tops, and probably will return to about that rate in the future, if your idea of fun is bidding on a 45 like this with a starting price of 15o quid,  why? 

2nd issues worth 100 quid, what the hell is that all about, don Gardner is a holy grail, no amount or red look alike label is going to give you the rush of actually felling like you have parted 5k on it...

If your reading this and saying this guys lost it, then maybe, but if your Also guilty of paying any of these prices, your clearly mad! 

Don't know if anybody has the balls to follow that unruly outburst, but if you feel the same, tell us about it and send a message !!! 

Malcolm

Hello Mal, hope all is good for you.    Its interesting that you mention the Robert Thomas "Salvation".  Some friends of mine found hundreds [many hundreds] of copies of this title amongst loads of other original imports, in the UK, probably about 10 years back now. They're all gone now,they all disappeared for cheap before the record started to gain a following again. Who knows, maybe it was this influx of copies turning up that prompted its revival at gigs ? I only mention this because it just shows how really common records[in collecting terms] can still end up with an expensive price tag. Not expensive in relation to other Northern stuff,but, expensive to anyone else not involved in this mad scene…...

 Personally speaking, I have been astounded on an almost daily basis recently at the ever spiralling prices of collectors rarities on ebay and private auction. I mean literally astounded… Theres plenty of money floating about for the right records at the moment thats for sure. How long it will carry on though is anyone's guess. Middle aged desperadoes I think are mainly responsible, itching to be seen Deejaying and willing to shell out a fortune to do it. All for the glory of it. Theres gonna be an awful lot of unwanted records one day though isn't there ? Who will want them when we all shuffle off into the clouds ? 

 Im still buying, pretty much all cheap stuff though these days. I could not physically pay the going rates of a lot of in demand stuff these days,its just got totally out of hand price wise I think.

 

[Soul Shrews]

1 hour ago, Peter99 said:

Carol Anderson looks awesome on Fee. I had a minter which I sold in the 90's. Fabulous record too. 

Indeed it does Peter, sold mine when I got the LP mid 80s

Cheers Paul

[ajb]

Con,not with all this information at our fingertips, it doesn't take long to find out how much you should have to pay for most things.

Are there a lot of chancers out there, definitely. buts thats not new, thats just life!

i think we all con ourselves in to believing we need/want certain records at times.

as for prices, its the same old story, buy whats you like, at a price your comfortable paying. any more and your just coning yourself.

the hike in prices i believe has a lot to do with the "new/latest" vinyl revival we seem to be in, will it last maybe should be the question.

till then "i buys what i like, and i likes what i buy"

[Guest Ivor Jones]

57 minutes ago, ajb said:

Con,not with all this information at our fingertips, it doesn't take long to find out how much you should have to pay for most things.

Are there a lot of chancers out there, definitely. buts thats not new, thats just life!

i think we all con ourselves in to believing we need/want certain records at times.

as for prices, its the same old story, buy whats you like, at a price your comfortable paying. any more and your just coning yourself.

the hike in prices i believe has a lot to do with the "new/latest" vinyl revival we seem to be in, will it last maybe should be the question.

till then "i buys what i like, and i likes what i buy"

I dont personally believe the hike in prices has anything whatsoever to do with any vinyl revival. What im talking about is records that have literally doubled or trebled in actual sale price. i.e £500 to £2000 ! These are not selling to casual novice record buyers are they ? I firmly believe these have to be selling to people who want to be showing them off in a DJ set. Theres no other reason I reckon. If you were to tell anyone else who wasn't involved in this music the prices they'd regard it as madness. When it gets to this level it is really isn't it ? What about the genuinely rare trophy pieces i.e Tomangoes, Del-Larks, Eddie Parker etc,etc.?  If commonish records like Soul Bros Inc can hit £2000, Masqueraders "How" can sell for nearly £2000 what price the real biggies ? Theres so many records now that go for a grand plus its all got out of hand I think.  

[Guest Gogs]

I don't think that there is a con, as long as you have the required knowledge in the subject (this is now so easy to acquire through the internet) but i do think that a lot of people now see a record that they like/want and decide that they must have it at any cost (you see this every day on ebay). I agree with many on here that collecting is a hobby and it is up to yourself what you want to spend on it and i have probably done the same (just don't tell the wife. Now where have i heard that that before.) But like i say the information is out there, all you have to do is check or shop around there are many good dealers out there that won't try to con you. ( I will agree with others in this thread that Pete S is one of the good guys)

[Baz1]

This is our take on it me and Shelly collect records to play no matter how much they cost ,ours all get played  and our take on it is that we expect nothing back for it so resale value has no meaning to us !!!!! If we have a big want an its staring us in the face at a do !!!!!overpriced !!!!!!our desire to own it simply overtakes that extra 30 quid  so me and shell are guilty of paying more so why the f... Are some people chunterin and fukin moaning about the price of this tune an that tune an its not worth that!!!!!!!when there investment has gone up😂😂 baring in mind that I don't buy records to make money 😕 so stop the f...... Moanin I'd rather give them away to some young souli I see that has passion than sell um !!!! That's me  am bolloxed x nite

[Ian Stacey]

 This is one aspect of collecting that I can never understand is that there are a lot of peeps out there that pay incredible prices for that are not that rare then look down at you if you have paid less money .Like spending more money for the same record in the same condition is a good thing .that frankly I just do not get ,I was fortunate to go to the states in the early eighties & bought most of what now have become very expensive .I paid a couple of dollars at the most  originals as I was based in Seattle fort Tacoma the was an abundance of them .I stopped telling people how little I paid for them the seem to get annoyed then tell how much it will cost you now on discogs or manships prices    I never bought for there worth I bought them because I loved the record ,some I bought because I knew mates wanted them which I probably sold it to them with a 50 pence gain or less it was never about the price even back then I found records that where a couple of dollars that djs where back then boasting how hard it was to find hence the high prices in England but pennies in the states .so those people who pay high prices now think that the are superior in some way  I find baffling , they seem to almost mock people who are still sensible about what they spend . people can be very odd about this I never get that aspect at all. .I never buy Northern soul  to sell on for profit I look for old ska ones & sell them to make more money to by more Northern as there prices to have hiked up I feel more comfortable  to do that as there not part of the same scene ,I would do the same with old punk records as well as there prices go up .I also swop records with mates rather than cash as if there about the same price  sometimes less sometimes more makes no difference to me I find it more rewarding to do that, hate taking hard earned cash of mates for records much rather just swop .with them .

[ajb]

9 hours ago, Ivor Jones said:

I dont personally believe the hike in prices has anything whatsoever to do with any vinyl revival. What im talking about is records that have literally doubled or trebled in actual sale price. i.e £500 to £2000 ! These are not selling to casual novice record buyers are they ? I firmly believe these have to be selling to people who want to be showing them off in a DJ set. Theres no other reason I reckon. If you were to tell anyone else who wasn't involved in this music the prices they'd regard it as madness. When it gets to this level it is really isn't it ? What about the genuinely rare trophy pieces i.e Tomangoes, Del-Larks, Eddie Parker etc,etc.?  If commonish records like Soul Bros Inc can hit £2000, Masqueraders "How" can sell for nearly £2000 what price the real biggies ? Theres so many records now that go for a grand plus its all got out of hand I think.  

I understand what you are saying

but do you not think with the upsurge in wanna be dj's with a pocket of cash have contributed to this rise? that coupled with chancer sellers looking to make a quick buck!

i'm just glad most of what i want/like aren't in the thousand pound bracket  and i'm happy to put the effort in to find them at the right price.

[Mark R]

Dunno about a con, I just think it's sad that so much of it is driven by DJ'ing/dance floor reaction and investment.

Not a great reflection on the wonderful music that.......surely it's about the tunes you personally love and want to own!!

And anyway, there's nowt clever about amassing and playing out a load of dead cert biggies is there......that's just about money, not selection and dedication.....or having an 'ear'.  Anyone with money can do that.  And why the need to be a DJ anyway?......money and records doesn't make you a DJ in the truest sense.......or maybe it does on the NS scene?????

And the cynic in me can't help but think that some that say they love the music certainly seem to like the money associated with it more.....

 

Cheers,

Mark R

Edited February 18, 2017 by Mark R

[Ian Stacey]

4 hours ago, Mark R said:

Dunno about a con, I just think it's sad that so much of it is driven by DJ'ing/dance floor reaction and investment.

Not a great reflection on the wonderful music that.......surely it's about the tunes you personally love and want to own!!

And anyway, there's nowt clever about amassing and playing out a load of dead cert biggies is there......that's just about money, not selection and dedication.....or having an 'ear'.  Anyone with money can do that.  And why the need to be a DJ anyway?......money and records doesn't make you a DJ in the truest sense.......or maybe it does on the NS scene?????

And the cynic in me can't help but think that some that say they love the music certainly seem to like the money associated with it more.....

 

Cheers,

Mark R

very true mark better to find tunes your really into &  in my case play them out  & hope that everyone else in the room thinks that & dances to them ,does not have to be big money tunes just really good northern I would rather here a cheapie that fills the floor than a tune that has had its day& cost 300 plus .

[Liamgp]

It cyclical isn't it? Post-Wigan when I began collecting, loads of now highly desirable stuff was cheap because many people thought the scene was finished and so, what was once worth £20 (gasp!) was now going for peanuts.  

Then you had the mid-1980s Stafford thing and the rush to buy 60s newies and then the prices for some records which would have been 50p before was pushing £40 which was considered a tad extreme unless the record was really rare even then.

Then there was another slump and stuff was cheap again and people were selling off records they didn’t think there was any demand for.

From the late 1990s on, it seems a lot of people got back into the scene or latched onto what seemed fashionable and, as we all had more cash to spend, prices for almost everything to do with soul, the 60s, scooters, mods, etc, etc, started to rise. Although they were only incidental to the soul scene, I watched with amazement as the price for things like Lambretta scooters went through the roof too.

Then R&B came along to the scene (OK, maybe a bit earlier…) and records which once had only a limited market appeal became the next big thing to have. My Rockabilly friends were not amused!

Now we have a lot of records which are not really rare selling for large sums once again – how long will that last?

One thing that has always stayed the same though – the really, really rare stuff has always been out of the average soul fans price range, I’m sad to say!

[Richard Free]

Maybe there will be another slump in prices or maybe not .For sure some relatively common records are selling for over the odds due to demand .There will also be a bunch of collections coming to the market in the next years as some of us older collectors pop our clogs .Demand however is now from all around the world and there is a growing youth market for funk sweet soul and northern .

One thing that is for sure is that the genuinely rare records will continue to achieve big prices .Another point worth mentioning is how many American soul collectors there are including a lot of younger guys .Walking  into a record shop Stateside is certainly does not mean easy pickings anymore and it hasn't been that way for a good while .The days of big old stock finds are also extremely rare .Most of the Radio stations have been done .The biggest percentage of big tunes are stuck in collections .So who knows where prices will go ?

 

[Steveh73]

8 hours ago, Mark R said:

Dunno about a con, I just think it's sad that so much of it is driven by DJ'ing/dance floor reaction and investment.

Not a great reflection on the wonderful music that.......surely it's about the tunes you personally love and want to own!!

And anyway, there's nowt clever about amassing and playing out a load of dead cert biggies is there......that's just about money, not selection and dedication.....or having an 'ear'.  Anyone with money can do that.  And why the need to be a DJ anyway?......money and records doesn't make you a DJ in the truest sense.......or maybe it does on the NS scene?????

And the cynic in me can't help but think that some that say they love the music certainly seem to like the money associated with it more.....

 

Cheers,

Mark R

Couldn't agree more!!

[Liamgp]

4 hours ago, Richard Free said:

Maybe there will be another slump in prices or maybe not .For sure some relatively common records are selling for over the odds due to demand .There will also be a bunch of collections coming to the market in the next years as some of us older collectors pop our clogs .Demand however is now from all around the world and there is a growing youth market for funk sweet soul and northern .

One thing that is for sure is that the genuinely rare records will continue to achieve big prices .Another point worth mentioning is how many American soul collectors there are including a lot of younger guys .Walking  into a record shop Stateside is certainly does not mean easy pickings anymore and it hasn't been that way for a good while .The days of big old stock finds are also extremely rare .Most of the Radio stations have been done .The biggest percentage of big tunes are stuck in collections .So who knows where prices will go ?

 

Good points - the worldwide interest in what used to be an almost entirely UK-based scene has increased a desire for original in-demand 45s substantially. In fact, of the last 5 records I have sold, 3 went respectively to Australia, Germany and the USA.   

[Richard Free]

Other sellers saying just the same thing including records heading back to the USA! 

 

[Guest Spain pete]

All this talk about is it a con  surely it's only a con to people  who don't really care or like soul music because if they don't then they really wouldn't be bothered in the first place about.  Getting        involved  in soul music in the first place🎶🎶🎶

[Bunderthollox]

Prices prices prices again-love to discuss the merit of bands and singers as people in other genres do. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by bonhsoulie
i was drunk and illiterate probably-strewn with spelling errors.

[Chalky]

People have to get past the obsession of records they can't afford.  Buy what you can afford, live within your means, theres plenty of records to go at for every budget.  

And if you think the market its saturated now, wait till everyone sells up when they need a pension or about meet their maker!

[The Fox]

Great topic Malcolm, that's inevitably returned to the OVO vs reissue/boot topic. The simple answer is that it's only a con if there is deception involved. So if you go to an OVO event and someone plays a boot the punters are being conned (likewise for passing off boots as original when selling records).

Are the prices a con?  That's a bit more of an grey area in my opinion. On a simplistic level if the seller is being honest about the product then it isn't but on another level if it is the scene's obsession with OVO to the extent that the average Joe is shamed into parting with high prices because of the perception of unacceptability then there is an element of conning. Not by the seller but by the OVO evangelists who make them think that it matters to that extent. 

In my youth I used to do 'mixtapes' of tunes I couldn't afford to buy. I think most of us did. But I also bought records from my local shop as far as my budget stretched. These days I have a bit more money so the balance has shifted a bit more in favour of originals but I'm not ashamed to say I will buy a reissue if the original is outside my budgetary grasp. So for example I bought the Don Gardner album to get the 45. When people feel pressured to deny they own boots /reissues or to think it is only acceptable to buy originals I think that's sad and the deception in the scene that they (reissues etc) are unacceptable is verging on a con and pushes up prices which is also sad. 

Before I get a hail of abuse from the OVO folks,  please let me be clear, I fully respect your love of the originals and understand the collecting obsession.  But I would also ask for respect in return of my love for the music no matter what issue I choose to listen to it on. If we could get over this (unlikely I know) then the con of overpricing might reduce because the supply and demand relationships would alter.

[Chalky]

If you know what you are buying and agree to buy it for the price stipulated how can it be a con?

Are they overpriced, in general yes but again it is what someone is prepared to pay.  As I said buy within your means.  Keep chasing the stuff out of your reach then you are golfing to be disappointed.

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

While I don't agree that current prices are sustainable and believe that prices will only go up to a point and then come down, I fail to see the 'con' aspect of it. If you are offered a record that you want at a certain price then it's up to you to research the current prices and determine whether you can get the same record label/condition wise at a cheaper price from an alternative source. A 'con' doesn't work in that way, a con would be being sold a record as an original then finding out you were sold a counterfeit or a later reissue for the price of an original, that would be a con, otherwise not, up to you to determine the value of what you're buying, same goes for an area of collectibles.

[jam66]

Well we know what Oscar Wilde would have made of it. The Cynic, "a man that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing" (Lady Windemere's Fan 1892).

[jam66]

[hrtshpdbox]

On 2/15/2017 at 15:05, ricspooner said:

 I don't see that much young blood out there

Rare + Good = Demand. For 40 years people have been saying that interest in doo wop will crash as that crowd dies off; most of them have passed away yet rare doo wop 45's are still setting price records all the time.

[Richard Free]

Top end do wop but lots of average stuff prices have dropped

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

6 minutes ago, hrtshpdbox said:

Rare + Good = Demand. For 40 years people have been saying that interest in doo wop will crash as that crowd dies off; most of them have passed away yet rare doo wop 45's are still setting price records all the time.

Hi, good points but is it true that the biggest market for 'Northern soul' records is in the UK rather than the states? (granted there is interest building in Europe etc too but I believe that is small in comparison to the UK interest) Doo Wop records are popular in the states yes but having said that over here I know a great many record collectors who collect soul and to be honest I don't know one who collects Doo Wop.

Edited February 19, 2017 by BabyBoyAndMyLass

[hrtshpdbox]

22 minutes ago, Richard Free said:

Top end do wop but lots of average stuff prices have dropped

That's true, but I think at least some of that is because of the internet - the "truth has out". For instance, Goldmine used to (probably still does, but they're daft) list a Crows "Gee" on red vinyl Rama as a $600. record. When Ebay helped sort out what is truly scarce on this planet, it became apparent that there must have been a whole lot more genuine examples of that record pressed than had been assumed - it's now about a $30. record in VG.

20 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Hi, good points but is it true that the biggest market for 'Northern soul' records is in the UK rather than the states? (granted there is interest building in Europe etc too but I believe that is small in comparison to the UK interest) Doo Wop records are popular in the states yes but having said that over here I know a great many record collectors who collect soul and to be honest I don't know one who collects Doo Wop.

It's true that northern soul is 90% a UK phenomenon, with the other 10% the rest of Europe, and that doo wop seems to be 100% a U.S. market. Or at least it seems that way to me, I'm in the states and I've sold both genres.

Edited February 19, 2017 by hrtshpdbox
misspelling

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

9 minutes ago, hrtshpdbox said:

That's true, but I think at least some of that is because of the internet - the "truth has out". For instance, Goldmine used to (probably still does, but they're daft) list a Crows "Gee" on red vinyl Rama as a $600. record. When Ebay helped sort out what is truly scarce on this planet, it became apparent that there must have been a whole lot more genuine examples of that record pressed than had been assumed - it's now about a $30. record in VG.

It's true that northern soul is 90% a UK phenomenon, with the other 10% the rest of Europe, and that doo wop seems to be 100% a U.S. market. Or at least it seems that way to me, I'm in the states and I've sold both genres.

Hi, yes I knew you were in the states hence my comment.

Purely out of curiosity what is the market like in the states regarding soul 45s? I'm asking from a US buyers point of view not relative to the value it could be sold to a UK buyer but how would a US buyer value a very rare soul 45 for the internal market? I'm perhaps not wording it very clearly, are prices paid by US buyers in anyway similar to UK, in terms of someone buying for themselves rather than considering selling on to a UK buyer? If that makes sense? I'm guessing the days of buying for peanuts records that over here are very sought after are gone, but are prices similar to what we would likely pay?

[hrtshpdbox]

21 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Purely out of curiosity what is the market like in the states regarding soul 45s?

I'd have to say there is no traditional market for soul 45's here. First, the truly top northern records are always going to go to the UK anyway;  if any US buyers want them they don't even bother bidding on them when they're listed on ebay. Soul collectors here may trade with one another, which makes the value relative. Lower end records, like the Flirtations "Nothing But a Heartache" or something like that, sell on Ebay for just a few dollars (like...a quid, right?), and I always suspect that the British would pay more than that if not for the shipping cost. 

I never buy individual records, always lots (and always cheaply). In the spring and summer it means going to as many yard sales as possible, asking the homeowners if they have any records (most people, here in Pennsylvania, still have no idea that vinyl is "back", and if they do want those old records in the basement it's the LPs they want, not the 45s). In the fall and winter I'll buy lots on ebay, avoiding record sellers and looking for offerings from the uninformed. Most of those sellers don't offer overseas shipping, but I'm not sure it matters - I've won auctions for "peanuts" where good soul records are sitting right there in the auction photos but no one seems to notice or care. Otherwise, estate sales and auction houses are good prospects as well, but as with the yard sales you do have to stay one step ahead of the other record hunters. Often, though, that competition is more interested, and knowledgeable about, classic rock LPs than they are about 45s.

I love soul, and I think the British fans have rightfully recognized the best of it, but my own collection consists mostly of the beat up copies - I sell off the best stuff so the hobby doesn't end up costing me too much money. 

 

 

 

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

15 minutes ago, hrtshpdbox said:

...Interesting insight into the US scene...

 

 

 

Many thanks for that interesting insight!

Good talking to you, best wishes from the UK!

[Corbett80]

Yes really interesting insight 'hrtshpdbox' - cheers! 

[KevH]

Yes a complete con. Stay away from it.

[Stephen T]

Robert Thomas - Salvation starts at £200 now https://www.discogs.com/Robert-Thomas-Salvation-Soul-Of-A-Man/release/2120568

Prices have gone up. However if you have good taste and a bit of imagination you can get great records at affordable prices. Too many people are after the same few 'big' tunes so prices have inflated- like house prices in London, it's economics. If you want to know about cons look at how Reggae prices have increased. £3 records 15 years ago are £50 now- I wish I'd bought and stored a lot more to sell now and I'd be a millionaire. I bet you feel the same about Soul records. I'm glad I bought  a load of records when they were still sensibly priced.

[Guest woolie mark]

What makes me laugh is I remember in the mid 70s my mates at school telling me that they had to sell an original of something quick because they'd found out it was getting pressed the following week and therefore the value of the original would plummet.

How funny that seems now.

[Guest Brian Walker]

From a musicians view point. It should be all about I e music not a paper label. The artist didn't care what label it was on just as long as it got released 

So it is a bit like collecting stamps 

 

[Bunderthollox]

What we tend to forget is that there are other genres of music that are collectible and I often reflect that at fairs and record shops-some people just see us coming. 

Luckily for me I had my mobile when I looked at some stuff I hadn't heard of when I went to Kirkgate market I walked away for 5 mins and looked at last week. Way above the mark, above even JM cat price in terms of vinyl quality.  Went to a record shop afterwards in Headrow and found some proper bargains. 

My ratio is about 80pc shops 20pc on line and Im moving back to shops n stalls more and more-its so much more fun and cheaper too-the cheaper the better obviously. 

 

Someone wrote about doowop prices-its still very popular across Europe as is Rockabilly, but be warned-the latter was extremely popular here in the 80s-was collected-and prices are and interest are now mostly as dead as a dodo-a ton is top price for a record of Rockabilly on a popular bidding site. 

 

I think of the economy of records here in UK to the dollar is $1 record in the States is equal to 20 quid here. $30 becomes 200quid. The further you fly online the cheaper it becomes. That should be a law of physics. What could we name it?

Of course it costs money to import, travel in and out of Britain- If you don't like British prices, you know where Heathrow is. Theres some hard work put in by big dealers, that's for sure. 

 

All in all If its good its good no matter what the price, and Id much rather talk about the quality of the artistes than the price tags of their produce. Its all great music for all tastes and wallet sizes.  

 

The following conversation took place in the 100 club 8 years ago.

Whats he playing?

Havent a f***ing clue...

Ask him what it is!

He says it cost him 4000

More fool him, its crap!! 

 

(Stadtler and Waldorf the 100 club 2010)

 

[Steve S 60]

39 minutes ago, bonhsoulie said:

 

 

I think of the economy of records here in UK to the dollar is $1 record in the States is equal to 20 quid here. $30 becomes 200quid. The further you fly online the cheaper it becomes. That should be a law of physics. What could we name it?

Of course it costs money to import, travel in and out of Britain- If you don't like British prices, you know where Heathrow is. Theres some hard work put in by big dealers, that's for sure. 

 

 

 

Manship's Law of Vinyl Acceleration.

[Bunderthollox]

10 minutes ago, Steve S 60 said:

Manship's Law of Vinyl Acceleration.

Manship's first pure law it is then.