Northern soul collecting!! Is it a con?

[Mal C]

Northern soul collecting!! Is it a con?  An overwhelming 'Yes'... 

Well having just read an email update I got from a well known dealer who I won't mention, I'd have to say so.... the prices that are being quoted on common cheap records is absolutely gob smacking! 

I dont think ill I'll get much praise for saying this from you wheeler dealers on here, but I'm sorry you would have to be a fool to pay these prices, my opinion, you are throwing your money away, literally...

Robert Thomas - Salvation, is a 20 quid record tops, and probably will return to about that rate in the future, if your idea of fun is bidding on a 45 like this with a starting price of 15o quid,  why? 

2nd issues worth 100 quid, what the hell is that all about, don Gardner is a holy grail, no amount or red look alike label is going to give you the rush of actually felling like you have parted 5k on it...

If your reading this and saying this guys lost it, then maybe, but if your Also guilty of paying any of these prices, your clearly mad! 

Don't know if anybody has the balls to follow that unruly outburst, but if you feel the same, tell us about it and send a message !!! 

Malcolm

Edited February 15, 2017 by Mal C

[Ian Stacey]

14 minutes ago, Mal C said:

Northern soul collecting!! Is it a con?  An overwhelming 'Yes'... 

Well having just just read an email update I got from a well known dealer who I won't mention, I'd have to say so.... the prices that are being quoted on common cheap records is absolutely gobsmacking! 

I dont think ill I'll get much praise for saying this from you wheeler dealers on here, but I'm sorry you would have to be a fool to pay these prices, my opinion, you are throwing your money away, literally...

Robert Thomas - Salvation, is a 20 quid record tops, and probably will return to about that rate in the future, if your idea of fun is bidding on a 45 like this with a starting price of 15o quid,  why? 

2nd issues worth 100 quid, what the hell is that all about, don Gardner is a holy grail, no amount or red look alike label is going to give you the rush of actually felling like you have parted 5k on it...

If your reading this and saying this guys lost it, then maybe, but if your Also guilty of paying any of these prices, your clearly mad! 

Dont know if anybody has the balls to follow that unruly outburst, but if you feel the same, tell us about it and send a message !!! 

Malcolm

paid a fiver for salvation Robert Thomas about 4 years ago big al from Bromsgrove got 2 for a tenner pucker condition get most of my recent purchases off Pete smith great value for the money you pay  in perfect condition .As for 2nd issues home play only so big money is silly 

[Soul Shrews]

Have to agree regards ahem "re-issues" that is bonkers to me. I would rather have it on CD if I can"t find/afford an original. As for high prices for more common records well that has always been the case if there is deamand. Also some of the previously common records are maybe not so common anymore ? Especially in good nick.

Could be a good thread malC

Cheers Paul

Edited February 15, 2017 by soul shrews
spelling

[Peter99]

Like anything it's only a con if you let yourself be conned. 

Some people over price records and some people are willing to pay - either through ignorance, having too much cash in their pockets or finally finding a long awaited want - or a mixture of some or all of them. 

Some sellers are deliberate crooks.

Pete

Edited February 15, 2017 by Peter99

[Neilb]

Its not a con. In your limited time on this earth you have to enjoy whatever your passion is -if that's collecting northern soul records on original labels then so be it - just something about it - the mystique of the artist/record etc/the effort that went into the sound and the artwork on 45s  and most of which went unappreciated at the time ;as I've got older I've realised nothing interests me more or gives me more more pleasure (wife,children, holidays in the sun excepted  just in case they read this).

Doesn't mean i want to overspend, but if others do if they are after something so what and you never really know where the price will end up? I've bought loads of records at the high end and they have dropped in price but  plenty gone the other way. Take your point on re-issues though.

Neil

[ricspooner]

As long as you are paying for what you want, not expecting to profit, no harm in my opinion.  But I do think that the bottom will fall out of this market.  I come to NS via mod revival and am now 52.  I see plenty of scooter adverts with price x (or will swap for van that will carry my angling equipment).  I don't see that much young blood out there, nor another market (e.g. Holland) that is in the ascendancy for NS.  So don't leave in your legacy £10K of NS 45s as they wont be worth much when we've gone.

  

[Lionelonthevinyl]

Ha-ha......I agree with every post,..Mal your absolutely right with your starting of the thread.....Ian is correct with his buying off pete smith ( buys plenty from Des Parker as well )...Paul is also correct with his comments, spot on in fact...Pete is also bang on, do your homework and don't get ripped off!!!....Neil also totally correct with his thoughts, we have all paid a little more for a tune and worried we've over done it...but been glad we have over a year or so, or not as the case may be!....an excellent post, but not sure what's a bargain these days?.... Do your research, look everywhere, ask everyone, and be very, very patient...that's my advice...great post, thank you.....Rob

Edited February 15, 2017 by Lionelonthevinyl

[Lionelonthevinyl]

1 minute ago, Lionelonthevinyl said:

Ha-ha......I agree with every post,..Mal your absolutely right with your starting of the thread.....Ian is correct with his buying off pete smith ( buys plenty from Des Parker as well )...Paul is also correct with his comments, spot on in fact...Pete is also bang on, do your homework and don't get ripped off!!!....Neil also bang on,  correct with his thoughts, we have all paid a little more for a tune and worried we've over done it...but been glad we have over a year or so, or not as the case may be!....an excellent post, but not sure what's a bargain these days?.... Do your research, look everywhere, ask everyone, and be very, very patient...that's my advice...great post, thank you.....Rob

 

[Mak]

I'm selling up , please con yourselves away ;o)

 

[Rich B]

In the time I was collecting I met many who tried to con me (some of whom undoubtedly succeeded) but I had a whale of a time, owned many records I never thought I would be able to when I was a youngster on the scene, and when I sold up I got a fair price from one of the nicest guys I ever met through northern soul, which is ironic as he didn't even like it himself.

I always worked on the assumption that if you only bought what you liked, paid what you were happy to pay, and owning it gave you pleasure, you would never feel like you had been conned.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Rich B

[Peter99]

4 minutes ago, Rich B said:

In the time I was collecting I met many who tried to con me (some of whom undoubtedly succeeded) but I had a whale of a time, owned many records I never thought I would be able to when I was a youngster on the scene, and when I sold up I got a fair price from one of the nicest guys I ever met through northern soul, which is ironic as he didn't even like it himself.

I always worked on the assumption that if you only bought what you liked, paid what you were happy to pay, and owning it gave you pleasure, you would never feel like you had been conned.

That's spot on Rich. I only buy things that I like - sometimes as much for memories sake as well as the actual track. 

[Rich B]

5 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

That's spot on Rich. I only buy things that I like - sometimes as much for memories sake as well as the actual track. 

That's the way Peter - it's about the love of the music after all isn't it? And is there any single thing that brings memories back as vividly as music?

[Daz Mc]

58 minutes ago, Lionelonthevinyl said:

Ha-ha......I agree with every post,..Mal your absolutely right with your starting of the thread.....Ian is correct with his buying off pete smith ( buys plenty from Des Parker as well )...Paul is also correct with his comments, spot on in fact...Pete is also bang on, do your homework and don't get ripped off!!!....Neil also totally correct with his thoughts, we have all paid a little more for a tune and worried we've over done it...but been glad we have over a year or so, or not as the case may be!....an excellent post, but not sure what's a bargain these days?.... Do your research, look everywhere, ask everyone, and be very, very patient...that's my advice...great post, thank you.....Rob

Pete Smith and Des Parker are 2 of the best dealers around on here , great blokes, very reasonable prices and won't rip u off 

[heartandsoulktf]

Sell me a Robert Thomas for £20 please. Or is that only if your buying !!!!

[Illusive]

Quite simply "No" it's not Malcolm.

The perogative to buy or not to buy is everyone's with cash in their pocket.

I'm sure we've all seen records for sale way above what we'd be prepared to pay and have thought the same as you did earlier today. Bemused or infuriated. But occasionally I admit to buying an overpriced 45 as the desire to own it has been overwhelming and robbed me of my sanity.

How many people buy designer clothes for exorbitant prices? Pay daft prices for bottles of wine? Go to swanky restaurants and pay ten times the price of the real value of the meal. Pay £600 plus for the latest iPhone. Throw their wages away at the bookies one week, and do the same again the next. Do they have critics too? Of course they do.  It's all relative, as is every transaction that ever occurred. Self control, addiction, cash to burn, a need to impress, etc etc. We all make choices.

We're all flawed. We all desire things we haven't got and make silly choices. That's the nature of human beings. 

As it also is for some to hold out for a minty copy at a rock bottom price even if it takes fifteen years to find it.

Sure some sellers are taking advantage of less well informed buyers, but that's the nature of business. If you thought you could sell or trade you're current car for twice its value, I'm pretty sure you would. Why sell for 5 if you can get 10!

How many people that want to own a record have the patience and will power to wait until one comes around at the right price? Not all of em that's for sure and this is what sellers hope for, especially those on eBay.

If I hear something new that I love, or a reactivated disc that blows me away it goes to the top of my immediate wants list. If it comes up for sale soon thereafter, am I more likely to pay over the odds. Probably if I want it badly enough and will I accept a poorer quality disc than I want? Yes.

The current demand for some records is driving the prices up, whilst others are definitely bottoming out, as they're not in vogue. Grab the out of favour ones whilst you can I'd say if you're a collector and purveyor of fine music.

Theres no rhyme or reason to collecting really in my view. It's a self gratifying and selfish activity and I've often thought it's probably more trouble than it's worth when I've been on a downer. Arguments about over spending too numerous to recall, and on reflection, me acting bang out of order, but an addiction is hard to break and not always everything it's cracked out to be.

And then I hear the music drifting out of the speakers. Filling me with that feeling only soul music can do, and I think fuck it, that's what it's about.

The End. 

Gav

[givemesoul]

^

^ idiots abound no wonder people selling carvers get high prices

[Guest chorleybloke]

Well considered & accurate summary by Gav.... of course it isn't a con.  The OVO market (not just NS) is a global one where there will be literally thousands of minted buyers who won't give a flying fuck what the average selling price on Popsike is, or what the JM guide price is.  If they want it, they'll buy it, just like they will for art or antiques.  For the umpteenth time, the laws of supply & demand will always prevail.  This is also true for the bootleg market and I'm assuming that particular demand is driven by DJs at events where the clientele couldn't care less about OVO.... however I don't live in UK/Europe so that's guesswork.

Cheers..............Pete

[SOULMAN62]

first record e-bay £10 --- second record £100, record seller price, say's it all

[Mal C]

7 hours ago, illusive said:

Quite simply "No" it's not Malcolm.

The perogative to buy or not to buy is everyone's with cash in their pocket.

I'm sure we've all seen records for sale way above what we'd be prepared to pay and have thought the same as you did earlier today. Bemused or infuriated. But occasionally I admit to buying an overpriced 45 as the desire to own it has been overwhelming and robbed me of my sanity.

How many people buy designer clothes for exorbitant prices? Pay daft prices for bottles of wine? Go to swanky restaurants and pay ten times the price of the real value of the meal. Pay £600 plus for the latest iPhone. Throw their wages away at the bookies one week, and do the same again the next. Do they have critics too? Of course they do.  It's all relative, as is every transaction that ever occurred. Self control, addiction, cash to burn, a need to impress, etc etc. We all make choices.

We're all flawed. We all desire things we haven't got and make silly choices. That's the nature of human beings. 

As it also is for some to hold out for a minty copy at a rock bottom price even if it takes fifteen years to find it.

Sure some sellers are taking advantage of less well informed buyers, but that's the nature of business. If you thought you could sell or trade you're current car for twice its value, I'm pretty sure you would. Why sell for 5 if you can get 10!

How many people that want to own a record have the patience and will power to wait until one comes around at the right price? Not all of em that's for sure and this is what sellers hope for, especially those on eBay.

If I hear something new that I love, or a reactivated disc that blows me away it goes to the top of my immediate wants list. If it comes up for sale soon thereafter, am I more likely to pay over the odds. Probably if I want it badly enough and will I accept a poorer quality disc than I want? Yes.

The current demand for some records is driving the prices up, whilst others are definitely bottoming out, as they're not in vogue. Grab the out of favour ones whilst you can I'd say if you're a collector and purveyor of fine music.

Theres no rhyme or reason to collecting really in my view. It's a self gratifying and selfish activity and I've often thought it's probably more trouble than it's worth when I've been on a downer. Arguments about over spending too numerous to recall, and on reflection, me acting bang out of order, but an addiction is hard to break and not always everything it's cracked out to be.

And then I hear the music drifting out of the speakers. Filling me with that feeling only soul music can do, and I think fuck it, that's what it's about.

The End. 

Gav

Where do I start Gav....  well obviously my post is very tounge in cheek, I suffer the same addiction we all do, and like you I shell out occasionally well over what I should... 

my comments on bootlegs or reissue stands up though, 

At s station so will pick this up later

mal

 

 

[Ian Stacey]

5 hours ago, chorleybloke said:

Well considered & accurate summary by Gav.... of course it isn't a con.  The OVO market (not just NS) is a global one where there will be literally thousands of minted buyers who won't give a flying fuck what the average selling price on Popsike is, or what the JM guide price is.  If they want it, they'll buy it, just like they will for art or antiques.  For the umpteenth time, the laws of supply & demand will always prevail.  This is also true for the bootleg market and I'm assuming that particular demand is driven by DJs at events where the clientele couldn't care less about OVO.... however I don't live in UK/Europe so that's guesswork.

Cheers..............Pete

they do care if its ovo if there truly into the scene those that hang out on occasion don't give a shit but dedicated  soulies do.i hear people still to this day at ALLnighters praising DJs  who spent the hard earned cash on original records to share with others  . may be a different story at your local pubs tamla motown night but at allnighter they care 

[Illusive]

7 hours ago, givemesoul said:

^

^ idiots abound no wonder people selling carvers get high prices

^

^   I hope that wasn't directed at me as I wouldn't dream of buying those overpriced counterfeits. 

I'm an enthusiast not  a mug.

[Illusive]

1 hour ago, SOULMAN62 said:

first record e-bay £10 --- second record £100, record seller price, say's it all

And another one sold this week for around £70. Only that one came out of the recent box set !! 

The mad world of northern soul. 

[Illusive]

28 minutes ago, redditchcrew said:

they do care if its ovo if there truly into the scene those that hang out on occasion don't give a shit but dedicated  soulies do.i hear people still to this day at ALLnighters praising DJs  who spent the hard earned cash on original records to share with others  . may be a different story at your local pubs tamla motown night but at allnighter they care 

I'd never support a venue playing pressings, carvers, or any other form of media that wasn't kosher. 

My rant never referred to the issue of ovo and counterfeits, but simply to the madness of collecting, human nature and the eternal search for the next slab of sublime soul.

Gav

[Premium Stuff]

3 hours ago, SOULMAN62 said:

first record e-bay £10 --- second record £100, record seller price, say's it all

They aren't the same release though. The bottom one is EMI - first and more expensive. The top one is RCA - there were two RCA releases I think - should be much cheaper.

So you're not comparing like with like.  

[Pete S]

The thing that I don't really understand is the original oldies phenomenon.  I saw a Rita Dacosta the other day for £900.  Okay, rare record, not a bad tune, but it's playing out days were over in 1975.  So are these records bought as trophies to admire at home like the proverbial Stags head on the wall?  There is no right or wrong, I just think that records like that, the Velvet Satins, massive records in the past but long past their sell by dates at venues.

The second thing I really hate at the moment is people using Discogs to make price comparisons.  They use it both ways; firstly, if selling, they will list something worth £100 at £150 and tell you that the cheapest copy on Discogs is £200, therefore you are getting a bargain.  Second way, if you list something at £50 they will tell you there's a copy on Discogs for £40 so I'm overpriced.  Yes but the £40 one was in Good Plus with writing all over it you tw*t.

[Pete S]

3 hours ago, Premium Stuff said:

They aren't the same release though. The bottom one is EMI - first and more expensive. The top one is RCA - there were two RCA releases I think - should be much cheaper.

So you're not comparing like with like.  

Correct of course. The second RCA is solid centre.

[Mick Boyle]

When I bought soul bros inc 10 years back I was told i overpaid and would never get my money back, now there 4 X the amount. The answer is knowing when the bubble will pop. If you sell just before then NS records are a great investment but if you sell after the big bang then you fooked it. imo

[Len]

Years back I bought 'Jack Montgomery - Don't Turn Your Back On Me' for £200.00..........Queue the (X) Mrs........"That could have been a new fridge freezer!".........She was right of course, we were young newly weds and blo*dy skint - Do I regret it? Na!  (I believe the said record is still at £200.00, but not bothered about that one bit)

Yeh, we are addicted / and open to be conned if that's what you want to call it. As someone mentioned earlier, this collecting thing is a human trait, it would be interesting to know what makes us so obsessive about it (whatever one collects) We can be completely blinded when chasing that special something (records in this case)

Record dealers must have real fun with us (especially at nighters) 

Len 

[Bbrich]

I dont look at buying records as an investment (investments are for holding assets e.g. to cash in sometime and possibly/hopefully make a profit), records to me are on the other side of the equation i.e. they are what i like to spend my money on and dont expect a return other than pleasure, same as a night out, holiday etc...    if my records are worth 10% of today in 10 years then so what,  it would be the same if i bought a brand new car (& i know which gives me the most pleasure).   Hopefully i dont pay too much over the odds very often but i dont feel conned as I am doing it with my eyes open  and making my own decision to spend whatever.  I am not referring to any of the example discs & prices mentioned by the way just records I have decided to pay more than sounds reasonable for a bit of plastic that I can hear the same sound for free, Possibly Mad = yes (how can you logically explain the difference in price of an original versus a re-issue where the only difference may be a tiny machine stamp in the deadwax that I can hardly see).   On the other hand paying big money for a boot/re-issue is real madness - like knowingly paying £100 for a fake rolex  (unless of course you are buying them to deceive...)

[Bbrich]

8 minutes ago, LEN said:

Years back I bought 'Jack Montgomery - Don't Turn Your Back On Me' for £200.00..........Queue the (X) Mrs........"That could have been a new fridge freezer!".........She was right of course, we were young newly weds and blo*dy skint - Do I regret it? Na!  (I believe the said record is still at £200.00, but not bothered about that one bit)

Yeh, we are addicted / and open to be conned if that's what you want to call it. As someone mentioned earlier, this collecting thing is a human trait, it would be interesting to know what makes us so obsessive about it (whatever one collects) We can be completely blinded when chasing that special something (records in this case)

Record dealers must have real fun with us (especially at nighters) 

Len 

You could point out to your Mrs that your record is still worth the £200 but the fridge/freezer would probably be in landfill by now.....

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

I don't have an opinion on whether it's a con or not, it's your/our money, spend it on what you need or what will make you happy. My observations are about whether or not the bubble is going to burst and render certain collectable items relatively worthless in the future as has been touched on earleir in this thread.

I have been collecting 'collectibles' my whole life, very seriously in the last twenty or so years after making some very serious money in the Environment business. Basically driven by a need to exit the business on political grounds and the desire to spend time in relaxation/idleness I tied a great deal of money up in 'investments' with the intention of liquidating them as the need arises, in other words to hold money in assets seeing as the banks offer nothing in the way of interest payments even on substantial amounts.

I collected, in no particular order, Victorian Patent Mineral water bottles, vinyl records, vintage American guitars and lesser value guitars from other countries, Old quality Binoculars eg, Carl Zeiss, Motorcycles, Land-Rovers, Model trains, vintage angling rods and reels, Occult books and occult hardware, Dinky model cars, among other stuff under the blanket of 'collectibles'. I know a little bit about collector markets and valuing stuff (Northern soul records probably my weakest area).

I recently sold a 'hotbox' of very desirable NS 45s all at bottom book prices in order to finance another long spell of what my lass calls 'idleness' I live in West Cornwall so can fill my time with plenty of activities that are quality of life but don't bring any money in.
Whilst the items I decide to sell have brought in some handsome profits as I got them in the 80s when no-one wanted them, there is a point, and it isn't that far away when certain 'collectibles' are not going to be widely valued and may lose a hell of a lot of money if not sold at the right point in the markets' evolution, a bit like how scrap merchants stockpile huge piles of metals and then sell them when the price is high, while the not-so-smart ones hang out for better prices only to find they have a massive surplus when the prices drop massively as they have currently.

Here's why...

Our generation collects and invests in the things we coveted when we were skint, so when we were teenagers and we wanted NS45s that were in vogue at the time (insert here any alternative 'want' such as Mk1 Escort Mexico or whatever you like) as we mature and have the money to indulge our whims better we bought stuff like that at prices dictated by current market trends, for me it was the cessation of Land-Rover Defender production that prompted a big spend on Series 1 LRs as I knew that the prices would go through the roof which they did. I stand to make a considerable fortune in this area provided I liquidate at the right time, in this market if you have the skills you can take a basket case and use the skills necessary to vastly improve resale value, something which you can't really do with some stuff, records being one example.

We buy what we dreamt of owning when we were kids, I had a thing for Spanish  Bultaco trial bikes as my parents couldn't afford to get me one when I was a kid and they were current, I built up quite a collection and still have a 1970 250 among my collection of trials bikes. When we go our kids will not want this stuff, they have different aspirations, when the bug for retro kicks in with them it'll be Sega-Megadrives and things like that. I doubt very much if many will want 'I really love you' on Washpan 45 much when they will have it already on CD and that is dying out, nowadays they don't really require things like music in any physical format, it is now much easier to carry 10,000,000 tracks on USB sticks than it is to carry 50 vinyl 45s. Granted some folks might want the OV45s but it isn't going to be a market that's even a tiny fraction of the current market for NS45s which is mega-niche anyway compared to say, the market for Mk1 Escort Mexicos. I have seen the market in Pre-CBS Fender guitars go from 'can't give 'em away' to five figures in my lifetime, however todays 'kids' when they get the bug for retro, which they will, it won't be for 'Shadows' guitars or even vintage Prophet one synths or anything of that ilk, it'll be for stuff that we have no interest in, maybe mobile phones from the early 2000s, early computers and Nintendos.

I'm coming up to fifty soon, I was into retro as a kid so the stuff I enjoy is from before my time but the vast majority of collectors are always going to crave/need/want the stuff that was current when they were a kid or a skint teenager, not the stuff that their Dad wanted or collected. Now is the time to be selling Northern soul unless you have no interest in it as an investment value but purely for your own pleasure, which is fine, I wouldn't consider putting a collection together at current prices with a view to leaving them as a legacy or perhaps selling at a non-loss in twenty or so years time or as an investment in the kids' future, I believe there simply won't be a market for them when the current generation of collectors is no longer active. I'd say the same for many areas of collecting from MK2 Jags to Jensen Interceptors, Escort Mexicos and many other examples, I think once the current market is gone the supply will greatly outweigh the demand IMHO.

Just a little food for thought.

Edited February 16, 2017 by BabyBoyAndMyLass

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Pete S said:

The thing that I don't really understand is the original oldies phenomenon.  I saw a Rita Dacosta the other day for £900.  Okay, rare record, not a bad tune, but it's playing out days were over in 1975.  So are these records bought as trophies to admire at home like the proverbial Stags head on the wall?  There is no right or wrong, I just think that records like that, the Velvet Satins, massive records in the past but long past their sell by dates at venues.

The second thing I really hate at the moment is people using Discogs to make price comparisons.  They use it both ways; firstly, if selling, they will list something worth £100 at £150 and tell you that the cheapest copy on Discogs is £200, therefore you are getting a bargain.  Second way, if you list something at £50 they will tell you there's a copy on Discogs for £40 so I'm overpriced.  Yes but the £40 one was in Good Plus with writing all over it you tw*t.

They buy these records (Rita Decosta etc) because oldies is how you get on in the Dj world on this scene.  The more you spend the better chance of a set.  whatbsome spend on their Dj sets is how many judge others. The days of getting on by using your imagination is over...certainly on the mainstream scene.

why would you buy a record with one eye on a return?  People that do deserve to lose everything and hopefully they will. It is these who have possibly drawn down their pension that have falsely inflated the market.  Any dealer will take advantage of this too, some fairer than others though.

[Len]

1 hour ago, bbrich said:

You could point out to your Mrs that your record is still worth the £200 but the fridge/freezer would probably be in landfill by now.....

Good point!  I could do, but......"We don't talk anymore!" 

(Hence the 'X')

Len 

[Frankie Crocker]

No. A definite no. A challenge, yes but not a 'confidence trick' which is what a con is. We know what we are doing and have been aware for decades. Once upon a time, we got the goods cheaply. Now the well's gone dry, time's have changed. Dealers have moved with the market, so prices at the high-end have jumped in response to demand. eBay has unearthed attic diggers that flog their treasures for unbelievable sums, but that's business for you. Record collecting is a bi-product of what we like doing which is listening to really good music. Fortunately, the prized records are an asset that may be of some value. Collecting for it's own sake like stamps, di-cast toys, Pokemon cards etc does not enter the equation. Good suggestion for a topic Malc, as we all need a reality check from time to time such is this crazy world we have helped to create.

[Guest Gogs]

4 hours ago, Pete S said:

Correct of course. The second RCA is solid centre.

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/d/172708/WILSON,_FRANK

worth a few bob according to this

[Pete S]

13 minutes ago, gogs said:

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/d/172708/WILSON,_FRANK

worth a few bob according to this

I won't comment on that price.

[Guest chorleybloke]

11 hours ago, redditchcrew said:

they do care if its ovo if there truly into the scene those that hang out on occasion don't give a shit but dedicated  soulies do.i hear people still to this day at ALLnighters praising DJs  who spent the hard earned cash on original records to share with others  . may be a different story at your local pubs tamla motown night but at allnighter they care 

Not sure if that was a dig at Australian events but I can assure you we don't loiter around on the dance floor in flip flops listening to CDs.  We almost exclusively play OVO at NS events all around the country, and some of the collections here could grace any allnighter.

[jam66]

I find a lot of subtle 'roots' in '60's Soul music, just my imagination perhaps. A couple of things I've mentioned before is like the Dynatones Fyfe Piper which I gained a whole new perspective on after seeing a BBC programme that traced the Blues back to Africa and the importance of the pipe. I find a funeral lament in My Heart Cries For You and an actual African dance (rain or otherwise), in This Is My Rainy Day. The list is quite a long one of such things

 

The thing that has had me intrigued for the last few years is the question of whether Americans of African descent will ever have any form of cultural Renaissance. I may be aggrandising the scene a little but it seems to me almost as if the UK, Europe and Japan in particular find themselves as guardians of this culture. Not only the roots element of it but the genius of x songwriter(s), y singer(s) z producers/arrangers. A level of sadly neglected brilliance there that was little matched elsewhere in skill and certainly not in sheer volume nor in erudition and inventiveness. I have actually seen comments from American music fans that they'd love a copy but they all seem to be held outside of the country. Are black Americans ever to gain such an interest in their American cultural roots again?  If they do what will that do to the area of Soul collecting in general not just our corner of the market. 

 

The thing is people buy reproductions in any cultural area and are quite happy with their purchase, this lends a dynamic to the actual works of art, broadens the audience and appreciation as seems to be happening with the unissued becoming available and the long history of legal reissues in example. People may be paying silly money and it would seem to be those that perhaps weren't there or weren't particularly interested in the discs themselves just the sounds. however as a couple have mentioned in the thread it is giving them great pleasure in hunting down tunes they like and having a physical copy of such, perhaps as much pleasure as those owning the real thing do?

 

Is it a con? A qualified I don't think so, are there cons within it? Definitely. If any one knows of an area of life without cons let me know and I'll pack. this bloke may serve to sort of prove a point.

Han van  Meegeren fooled leading experts with his forgeries, even sold some to the Nazi hierarchy lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_van_Meegeren

Edited February 16, 2017 by jam66
Grammar

[Bunderthollox]

I never go bitten by hugh price sounds, more fun in bargain hunting, got a couple ofreally wants but never more than 120 personally, and a nicey quidder i.e. sons of watts will always fill my eart with jo and i love seeing people dig though the poundy boxes cos you always find something.

Edited February 16, 2017 by bonhsoulie

[Bunderthollox]

12 hours ago, illusive said:

And another one sold this week for around £70. Only that one came out of the recent box set !! 

The mad world of northern soul. 

Jsesus wept....

[Ian Stacey]

1 hour ago, chorleybloke said:

Not sure if that was a dig at Australian events but I can assure you we don't loiter around on the dance floor in flip flops listening to CDs.  We almost exclusively play OVO at NS events all around the country, and some of the collections here could grace any allnighter.

 

1 hour ago, chorleybloke said:

Not sure if that was a dig at Australian events but I can assure you we don't loiter around on the dance floor in flip flops listening to CDs.  We almost exclusively play OVO at NS events all around the country, and some of the collections here could grace any allnighter.

why in gods name would you think that. did I mention Australia. no I didn't;t never been there  & to tell the truth have no intention of ever going there, your comments are without any substance .If you knew me you would know that your way off the mark need to reel in that paranoia of yours .  you have issues , my comments are not aimed at any venue or country but it is aim at people that think that original vinyl is what you need to have to play out at a all-nighter you do .reissues are a cheap  way to listen to your favourites  AT HOME  NOT OUT TO A PAYING PUBLIC that is a con .hope the clears it up for you chorey bloke  regards  IAN STACEY .   

[Itsthebeat]

Records are the modern day antiques! No re-issue or boot should fetch a high price! They can be manufactured at any time! It's all about originals and they will increase in value as the years pass. 

 

[Frankie Crocker]

11 minutes ago, itsthebeat said:

Records are the modern day antiques! No re-issue or boot should fetch a high price! They can be manufactured at any time! It's all about originals and they will increase in value as the years pass. 

 

An interesting take on the subject. However, there is the USA original and then again, the British release. The latter seems to be going through something of a revival. Given the quality and collectability of the Grapevine releases of the 70's, it is not surprising that some are fetching sums not to be sneezed at. Even these, as well as more recent issues of unreleased tracks will command higher values in future.

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

10 minutes ago, itsthebeat said:

Records are the modern day antiques! No re-issue or boot should fetch a high price! They can be manufactured at any time! It's all about originals and they will increase in value as the years pass. 

 

What like antiques?

Do antique prices just go up and up or are they subject to simple rules of economics like 'supply and demand'?

Are records like antiques and fluctuate in price subject to being 'in-vogue' ie: Desired by certain types of buyers with the finances to afford them?

How many years are you talking here for them to go up and up? Forever or just while there is a market for them? Will that market exist infinitely or are there current trends that could diminish over time?

If subsequent generations have different desires over the items they own, will the items still go up in price?

These questions can be applied for every area from Classic cars to records to ancient artifacts, what happens when the amount of demand for said items diminishes and supply outstrips demand? Do the prices still keep going up and up?

I know it isn't very 'keep the faith' but simple economics suggest to me that the current demand for NS original 45s will have a limited lifespan.

[Itsthebeat]

Grapevine 45's will hold their price. All of the first yellow labelled series, bar one release, had not been pressed on a UK label before. Many collectors refer to them as UK originals because of this, even though the UK releases are some years later than the US. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by itsthebeat

[Itsthebeat]

47 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

What like antiques?

Do antique prices just go up and up or are they subject to simple rules of economics like 'supply and demand'?

Are records like antiques and fluctuate in price subject to being 'in-vogue' ie: Desired by certain types of buyers with the finances to afford them?

How many years are you talking here for them to go up and up? Forever or just while there is a market for them? Will that market exist infinitely or are there current trends that could diminish over time?

If subsequent generations have different desires over the items they own, will the items still go up in price?

These questions can be applied for every area from Classic cars to records to ancient artifacts, what happens when the amount of demand for said items diminishes and supply outstrips demand? Do the prices still keep going up and up?

I know it isn't very 'keep the faith' but simple economics suggest to me that the current demand for NS original 45s will have a limited lifespan.

Maybe? We just do not know. Whether 45's will be viewed as valuable in the future does depend on their demand. This can be said about practically anything. They could be worth hundreds or pennies, but they will be originals. We can say, originals wear and cannot be replaced. I would like to think they would be valuable even if I cannot afford to purchase. Each one a piece of history!

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by itsthebeat

[Guest chorleybloke]

3 hours ago, redditchcrew said:

 

why in gods name would you think that. did I mention Australia. no I didn't;t never been there  & to tell the truth have no intention of ever going there, your comments are without any substance .If you knew me you would know that your way off the mark need to reel in that paranoia of yours .  you have issues , my comments are not aimed at any venue or country but it is aim at people that think that original vinyl is what you need to have to play out at a all-nighter you do .reissues are a cheap  way to listen to your favourites  AT HOME  NOT OUT TO A PAYING PUBLIC that is a con .hope the clears it up for you chorey bloke  regards  IAN STACEY .   

Calm down and have a cup of tea Ian.  The reason for the misunderstanding (which I now believe it to be after your response) is because you said "may be a different story at YOUR local pubs tamla motown night" and quoted my post.  I can safely assume you were generalising and didn't mean MY local pub.  I can assure you I have no issues so let's be happy we're on the same page about OVO and boots.  And neither am I paranoid so stop whispering to everyone about me

[SOULMAN62]

20 hours ago, Premium Stuff said:

They aren't the same release though. The bottom one is EMI - first and more expensive. The top one is RCA - there were two RCA releases I think - should be much cheaper.

So you're not comparing like with like.  

 

20 hours ago, Premium Stuff said:

They aren't the same release though. The bottom one is EMI - first and more expensive. The top one is RCA - there were two RCA releases I think - should be much cheaper.

So you're not comparing like with like.  

I'm sure that true, but would it change the quality of the tune ?

[Ian Stacey]

6 hours ago, chorleybloke said:

Calm down and have a cup of tea Ian.  The reason for the misunderstanding (which I now believe it to be after your response) is because you said "may be a different story at YOUR local pubs tamla motown night" and quoted my post.  I can safely assume you were generalising and didn't mean MY local pub.  I can assure you I have no issues so let's be happy we're on the same page about OVO and boots.  And neither am I paranoid so stop whispering to everyone about me

 No problem I would never slag any one of on here I may generalise  but as I said if you knew me you would know I just do not do that  & don't worry I have a word with the whisperers no harm done.

[maslar]

On 15/02/2017 at 19:01, Mal C said:

Northern soul collecting!! Is it a con?  An overwhelming 'Yes'... 

Well having just read an email update I got from a well known dealer who I won't mention, I'd have to say so.... the prices that are being quoted on common cheap records is absolutely gob smacking! 

I dont think ill I'll get much praise for saying this from you wheeler dealers on here, but I'm sorry you would have to be a fool to pay these prices, my opinion, you are throwing your money away, literally...

Robert Thomas - Salvation, is a 20 quid record tops, and probably will return to about that rate in the future, if your idea of fun is bidding on a 45 like this with a starting price of 15o quid,  why? 

2nd issues worth 100 quid, what the hell is that all about, don Gardner is a holy grail, no amount or red look alike label is going to give you the rush of actually felling like you have parted 5k on it...

If your reading this and saying this guys lost it, then maybe, but if your Also guilty of paying any of these prices, your clearly mad! 

Don't know if anybody has the balls to follow that unruly outburst, but if you feel the same, tell us about it and send a message !!! 

Malcolm

 

I think sometimes it's best to go back to basics. What is record collecting? Why do you collect records? If it's as a hobby then that's something that should give enjoyment and pleasure. That's the standard definition of a hobby. If sales lists from dealers with silly prices are driving you up the wall then there's obviously not much pleasure to be had there.. A good option would be to contact them, state you find their prices ridiculous and therefore won't be receiving their lists in future. No more hair-pulling or manic outbursts in public spaces.

Record collecting is a personal pastime. Yet it seems there are some who want to tell other people what they should be collecting. That really is pretty bizarre when you think about it - but it actually does happen. Only collect “originals”? Really. Great if that's what you're into but there's a wider world out there (within the record collecting sphere).

I take issue with the subject of re-issues. All record releases are in some way unique. Therefore all have at least the potential to be collectable It's this uniqueness that makes the collecting of re-issues valid for some collectors. Particularly in certain collecting spheres, e.g. collecting a particular artist or label. To be derisory about such records shows a lack of understanding and often comes across as elitist.

The Don Gardner may cost £5000 for an original. For most collectors that's not going to be attainable. The re-issue was done on a lookalike label. Yet it's easily distinguishable. It was a limited run and furthermore is approved and endorsed by the artist himself. To say such a record s not collectible or worthy is ridiculous. It may not meet your criteria but so what? It's certainly going to meet somebody's. How much they decide to pay for it is up to them. It is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. How does anyone know how they feel when buying it? How does anyone know how someone else will feel when parting with £5000 for a record? Adrenalin rush? Maybe. Or maybe that sinking feeling Maybe it will lead to long periods of doubt and anguish? Maybe guilt? Self loathing? Inadequacy? Who knows?

Why is it of such interest anyway? In terms of actual satisfaction and pleasure they may actually get more from buying the collectible reissue. That's pretty feasible when you think about it.

Each to their own.