Charles Diamond & Inspirations

[Patto]

Hi Guys

Firstly i know this record has been talked about to death on previous threads so sorry. I have contributed myself but i would like to get a few more up to date opinions on this one.

Obviously there is the mega rare 60s version by the Inspirations which is that rare your hardly ever going to here it played out.But the 1977 release on Breakthrough has a Different take with different vocalist.It also has a different title and is released on the label owners legit label.

Therefore can the pinkie be classed as OVO and played out at such events.I Ask the question as over the years i have heard people argue both ways and would like to know what the concensus is at the moment

Patto

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Patto

[Concrete]

You've got to ask yourself the question 'why was it re recorded & released' and if the answer is due to the demand of the Northern Soul Clubs then it breaks one of the rules of OVO and should not get played

[Goldsoul]

It wasn't re-recorded. Karl White(Chalky) has done or is in the process of completing the musical history of the group and Charles too. 

A case of all will be revealed. 

As a taster, here's a shot of Charles recently. The interview footage will eventually be on the SoultripUSA page (Facebook) 

Charles will in fact perform his two most famous songs 'No One Else...' and 'You'll Never Make The Grade' at our event in Las Vegas next year. 

[Patto]

4 hours ago, concrete said:

You've got to ask yourself the question 'why was it re recorded & released' and if the answer is due to the demand of the Northern Soul Clubs then it breaks one of the rules of OVO and should not get played

See what you meen mate but thats bit extreme.Does the same apply to the Satiron copy of Milton Wrights I Belong to you.They go nuts for that one and pay big money to play as OVO but whats the difference.Also all the great unissued tracks are released due to scene demand but its ok to play Marvin Gaye Love Starved Heart is it not

All i want to know is if the record can be considered an original release being a different version released on a legit label.

[Patto]

4 hours ago, Goldsoul said:

It wasn't re-recorded. Karl White(Chalky) has done or is in the process of completing the musical history of the group and Charles too. 

A case of all will be revealed. 

As a taster, here's a shot of Charles recently. The interview footage will eventually be on the SoultripUSA page (Facebook) 

Charles will in fact perform his two most famous songs 'No One Else...' and 'You'll Never Make The Grade' at our event in Las Vegas next year. 

CHEERS Kev Very interesting love to hear more

[Tlscapital]

Marvin Gaye 'this old...' was not released due to a demand in the UK. It was a Motown promotional product for the members or sumthin' like da'. And Charles Diamond  & the Inspirations take later release is way better than the illusive insanely rare originally first issued version (only as single sided promos), so I play my "pink" copy home and out without any shame, guilt or scare !

[KevH]

Yes, play it. Different cut ,different version. Not made for the scene as far as I know. 

[maslar]

1 hour ago, Patto said:

See what you meen mate but thats bit extreme.Does the same apply to the Satiron copy of Milton Wrights I Belong to you.They go nuts for that one and pay big money to play as OVO but whats the difference.Also all the great unissued tracks are released due to scene demand but its ok to play Marvin Gaye Love Starved Heart is it not

All i want to know is if the record can be considered an original release being a different version released on a legit label.

Why not try and work it out for yourself. Whose opinion means so much to you?

Of the two versions I prefer the Breakthrough although obviously there's never going to be much in it. . As far as I'm concerned (from the facts I know) its a legitimate release. That's all I need to know.

[maslar]

6 hours ago, concrete said:

You've got to ask yourself the question 'why was it re recorded & released' and if the answer is due to the demand of the Northern Soul Clubs then it breaks one of the rules of OVO and should not get played

So once you've had this conversation with yourself you write to who exactly?

[Pete S]

If you don't play a record as good as this, you're cutting off your nose to spite your own face

[Guest]

2 hours ago, tlscapital said:

Marvin Gaye 'this old...' was not released due to a demand in the UK. It was a Motown promotional product for the members or sumthin' like da'. And Charles Diamond  & the Inspirations take later release is way better than the illusive insanely rare originally first issued version (only as single sided promos), so I play my "pink" copy home and out without any shame, guilt or scare !

Love Starved Heart was not released to the general public it was a "Giveaway" 45 to promote Marvin`s CD of unissued cuts from the vaults of Motown so no reason to ask questions about it`s authenticity or whether or not it satisfies the OVO police. 

The Charles Diamond 45 is a pucker original on a legit label and has every right to hit the decks, anyone saying different is a 1st degree knob! 

Question answered?

Edited February 9, 2017 by Guest

[Corbett80]

I prefer the flip of the 60's release. Great horns.

Edited February 9, 2017 by corbett80

[Guest]

1 minute ago, corbett80 said:

I prefer the flip of the Breakthrough copy.

The Karaoke version?

[Guest]

I flipped over The Larks - Groovin at the Go-go (Four Larks) on Harthon, the instrumental flip sounds awesome!

And that`s another legit play, as it`s only on the Harthon release.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Guest

[Pete S]

1 minute ago, Steve Lane said:

I flipped over The Larks - Groovin at the Go-go (Four Larks) on Harthon, the instrumental flip sounds awesome!

Only on the reissue I think

[Concrete]

 Where do the OVO stand on this then?

 

James Dockery My Faith In You is All gone Soulcraft   (Blue 70s issue)

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by concrete

[Guest]

Just now, concrete said:

 Where do the OVO stand on this then?

On what?

 

[Guest]

On 09/02/2017 at 17:16, concrete said:

 Where do the OVO stand on this then?

 

James Dockery My Faith In You is All gone Soulcraft   (Blue 70s issue)

 

It was recut and remarketed in the 1970's for the USA public on the blue label, so it's a original of that release.

The Red label, better version, from the 1960's for the USA public, is a original of that release.

If either were repressed for a specialist market like Northern Soul, they are not original, just retro represses.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Guest

[Patto]

Bringing the thread back to my question about the Charles Diamond.I think i am satisfied that its ok to play out and my copy which i have owned for some 20 years will be resting in the play box.And if anyone says owt about it ill just tell em Steve says your a FIRST DEGREE KNOB 

Would be interested to hear of any DJs on here who have played it out and how did it go down.

Thanks for all replys

[Chalky]

The article will be done at the weekend, as soon as Kev has read it we will publish.  Just got to rewrite a couple of things. 

[Guest]

It goes down very well Patto!....if any officer of the Soul Police says anything just headbutt him and ask for his badge & side-arm!

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Guest

[Bruv]

26 minutes ago, Patto said:

Bringing the thread back to my question about the Charles Diamond.I think i am satisfied that its ok to play out and my copy which i have owned for some 20 years will be resting in the play box.And if anyone says owt about it ill just tell em Steve says your a FIRST DEGREE KNOB 

Would be interested to hear of any DJs on here who have played it out and how did it go down.

Thanks for all replys

I played it out a few times last year at my monthly Sunday Soul nights held in a pub on Poole Quay Dorset, a handful of the regulars that come along went to the Casino and love hearing some of the old favourite's from Station Road.   

 

[Mal C]

Fabulous track, so glad I only paid a tenner for it!  Article sounds good love to find out more about this recording, and the original 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Mal C

[Concrete]

16 hours ago, Patto said:

CHEERS Kev Very interesting love to hear more

If this isn't a re-recording I'm guessing that the wrong tape was used for the initial release, hence the poor vocals, the intended tape was lost/stolen/held up due to contractural reasons and not found until the later 70s when it was released as a bona fide record to go up against the EWF, The Emotions, Barry White & Natilie Cole records that dominated the r&b charts at that time. My point is why go to the trouble of releasing it other than to sell to a 'captive' market' that was clamouring to get thier hands on it my guess is that most of the copies are on this side of the Atlantic.

Don't get me wrong it is a great record, the pink far outstrips the original release, but whats going to happen if two dj's turn up with it one pink the other the original

I know which one I'd rather listen to.

The Four Larks Discotheque Groove  is a great track that benifits from great mastering 

 

[Pete S]

4 hours ago, concrete said:

If this isn't a re-recording I'm guessing that the wrong tape was used for the initial release, hence the poor vocals, the intended tape was lost/stolen/held up due to contractural reasons and not found until the later 70s when it was released as a bona fide record to go up against the EWF, The Emotions, Barry White & Natilie Cole records that dominated the r&b charts at that time. My point is why go to the trouble of releasing it other than to sell to a 'captive' market' that was clamouring to get thier hands on it my guess is that most of the copies are on this side of the Atlantic.

Don't get me wrong it is a great record, the pink far outstrips the original release, but whats going to happen if two dj's turn up with it one pink the other the original

I know which one I'd rather listen to.

The Four Larks Discotheque Groove  is a great track that benifits from great mastering 

 

I thought this was definitely pressed up by the label for the Northern scene - there were no copies around then were hundreds.  I'm pretty sure they were asked for the original version but couldn't find it so put out this alternate version instead.  I "found" Charles Diamond years ago, his wife contacted me for some reason, I passed the details onto Kev, I didn't even ask if there were any records around..

[Patto]

4 hours ago, concrete said:

Don't get me wrong it is a great record, the pink far outstrips the original release, but whats going to happen if two dj's turn up with it one pink the other the original

Well At the end of the day if both are ok to play and the pinkie is a legit original in its own right then you choose what version you want to own and play.As a DJ it can happen many times that the guy on before you plays several of your best and most expensive records first.

In the unlikely event that i was on the same rosta as a guy who had the 60s version,say Ted Massey for eg then personally out of respect i would not play the pinkie if he was intending to play his.But i agree the pinkie is the better sounding version.

[Steve Foran]

Not "dick waving" but about 20 years ago I was guest DJ and the lad before me played Billy Woods Let me make you happy. I said to him about there being two copies in the same venue. I showed mine his was the 70,s boot. I was pissed off to say the least but I guess that is what happens with the top end stuff. He had coloured his to make it look real as well.

[Ian Stacey]

     I  wouldn't patto you may regret it people on the scene have long memories only giving people ammo on lighter note its a good soul night tune

[Patto]

2 hours ago, redditchcrew said:

     I  wouldn't patto you may regret it people on the scene have long memories only giving people ammo on lighter note its a good soul night tune

As you know Ian i will only play out Original label releases so if the main opinion on the Charles Diamond is that its not acceptable on those grounds i will not play it simples.All i know is that over the years several Top DJs have spun it and regard it as ok.I Dont know it all so thats why i started the thread.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Patto

[Concrete]

removed

Edited February 11, 2017 by concrete

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Patto said:

As you know Ian i will only play out Original label releases so if the main opinion on the Charles Diamond is that its not acceptable on those grounds i will not play it simples.All i know is that over the years several Top DJs have spun it and regard it as ok.I Dont know it all so thats why i started the thread.

Answers your question then doesn`t it mate!

[Tlscapital]

14 hours ago, Patto said:

As you know Ian i will only play out Original label releases so if the main opinion on the Charles Diamond is that its not acceptable on those grounds i will not play it simples.All i know is that over the years several Top DJs have spun it and regard it as ok.I Dont know it all so thats why i started the thread.

Hi Patto, I don't agree with the idea of a "main" opinion here. It's a later and properly re-sung version to finally grace this masterpiece of music. If the "main" opinion think different, well be it. For exactly the same reasons; the Natural Four 'I thought you were mine' on ABC being a far bettered tighten version re-recorded a year or two after it was first released Boola-Boola couldn't be played out ??? One would have to be dissatisfied with a rarer and less good record. That'd be sad I find.

[Chalky]

Charles Diamond isn't later recording.  It was done at the same session as The Inspirations or very soon after.

This isn't some tailor made recording done to cash in on the scene.  Yes it was released later for the the scene but so was releases like Milton Wright on Satiron and if Butch was playing Charles Diamond's take we wouldn't be having this conversation.  There's a plethora of unreleased recordings and alternate takes that have been released thanks to labels such as Kent, SouL junction etc etc.

[KevH]

Patto, just play it.Its a re-working,different completely to the rare one.Its not trying to be the rarer one.

 

Edited February 12, 2017 by KevH

[Chatty]

On 09/02/2017 at 19:29, Patto said:

I think i am satisfied that its ok to play out and my copy which i have owned for some 20 years will be resting in the play box.

Just curious as to why now then?

[Mr Soul]

On 9 February 2017 at 16:43, Pete S said:

If you don't play a record as good as this, you're cutting off your nose to spite your own face

I agree entirely , as far as I'm concerned, different cut, which I actually prefer, I have played it out, soul police haven't turned up yet, to arrest me , 

[Soul-slider]

I believe it's the Inspirations' take on Goldmine's Soul Supply LP 'The Northern Soul Story - Volume 4'. Is this the only way it's been re-issued on vinyl? 

Edit: Actually it's not, it's the Charles Diamond take.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Soul-Slider