What's Yer Fave Taylor Made?

[Billy Freemantle]

=============

Where's the world of difference?

Winnie:-)

The small record companies were doing it at the same time as Motown and maybe even before. They were not trying to satisfy a niche that had existed for 20 years.In other words the degree of opportunism was less and the level of artistic integrity higher. The records were genuinely great too in their own right. They were not just Motown copies. The majority of Ian's tailormades are poor. His argument about all records being tailormades is just an apologetic and an attempt to justify himself. His focus on the genesis of a lot of Northern as being failed Motown soundalikes is all part of his self defence.

[Winnie :-)]

The small record companies were doing it at the same time as Motown and maybe even before. They were not trying to satisfy a niche that had existed for 20 years.In other words the degree of opportunism was less and the level of artistic integrity higher. The records were genuinely great too in their own right. They were not just Motown copies. The majority of Ian's tailormades are poor. His argument about all records being tailormades is just an apologetic and an attempt to justify himself. His focus on the genesis of a lot of Northern as being failed Motown soundalikes is all part of his self defence.

=================

Can see what you're saying with the first bit, but would have thought all small record companies would have been attempting to imitate whatever sound was popular at the time, whether it be Motown or prior to it? At the time (7Ts) Levine was copying and creating for a current trend, the northern scene, so still don't see a world of difference to be honest. I'm not saying his creations are/were northern classics, cos IMO they're not (although I don't think they're all crap either) but I do think his statement has some relevance. Doesn't expansion do something similar, create sounds that fit current trends?

[Billy Freemantle]

The dance records of 60s black America were products that flowed naturally and dynamically out of earlier styles.Large and small companies were influenced by one another, often sharing writers arrangers and musicians. The results were real records rooted to their time but often acquiring a timeless apppeal and transcending their time as only genuine art can. They were not ,in other words, mere commercial contrivances as were Ian Levine's records.The only way in which 60s records were tailor-mades is that they were made with the the intention of their being commercial hits. With that similarity the similarities between Ian's productions and the product of those producing at the same time as Motown ends.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Billy Freemantle

[Guest]

Not getting involved in this one (same old mis informed arguments again) other than to say that given that virtually every American record company in the 60's (and not a few UK ones) was trying to emulate the highly successful Motown sound, then under the criteria set out in some of these postings, they were all tailor made.

[Guest martinsbox]

That was about 1976? Val McKenna had been played four! years earlier at the Torch remember it vividly.

does that mean it was a re-issue not taylor made am pretty sure it was on a blue Spark label first.

Steve

my favourite would be Soussans Before its too late instrumental.

I had a blue label/silver writing copy in 1977/78 got it at Wigan one night. Paid the pricely sum of £4 for it as well, concidering that I also got a copy of Les Femmes "Closer" for £11 also!! I still rate this tune, but alas, being a cheapy will never get played again.

Martin

p.s. Val McKenna ever get released in the U.S. ??

[Billy Freemantle]

virtually every American record company in the 60's (and not a few UK ones) was trying to emulate the highly successful Motown sound,

This has been stated so often that it has acquired the status of a fact. But is it really true? Isn't it rather true that so many of the great soul records of the 60s sounded very to different to Motown?

[Guest Baz]

This has been stated so often that it has acquired the status of a fact. But is it really true? Isn't it rather true that so many of the great soul records of the 60s sounded very to different to Motown?

I've always hardly beleived that statement.......i mean how many actual records sound like motown that arn't actually motown? their is far more soul records that sound a million miles away from motown. bit of a red herring that 'fact' me thinks

[Guest johnm]

Sidney Barnes - Standing on Solid Ground

[Pete S]

Rubbish!, just dubbing new vocals over an existing instumental and the words make no sense to me.

Not quite, he re-edited it and put it back together in a different order which actually sounded better than the original, if you remove the controversy and just listen to it on it's own merits, it's a brilliant record, the man is mad genius

[Guest martyn]

James Wells was released in 1977 if my memory is correct. Yeh, sure it was!! Although Ian Levine made stuff aimed at the 'Northern' market, he also did some more for the 'High Energy'/'Gay' scene. And yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Martin

76

[Pete S]

That was about 1976? Val McKenna had been played four! years earlier at the Torch remember it vividly.

does that mean it was a re-issue not taylor made am pretty sure it was on a blue Spark label first.

Steve

my favourite would be Soussans Before its too late instrumental.

You're right Steve. No way is Val McKenna a tailor made, it was a legitimate UK release in 1970

[Billy Freemantle]

I've always hardly beleived that statement.......i mean how many actual records sound like motown that arn't actually motown? their is far more soul records that sound a million miles away from motown. bit of a red herring that 'fact' me thinks

Absolutely right Baz. At random I'm uploading Oscar Toney Jnrs 1967 Bell recording. Nothing like Motown.

Oscar_Toney_Jnr___You_can_lead_your_woman_to_the_altarRe1.mp3

[Guest martyn]

talking to me sen

curoisty got me

reserve not met

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ian-Levine-27-Rare-A...9QQcmdZViewItem

None of his 'better' ones there though Mike.I sold I few of his tomorow demo's a couple of years ago on Ebay,(to one one of the more prolific SS posters ........Don't know if he turned a profit in on them),but to me they were just an oddity I picked up at Wigan one night & had become 'clutter'

[Guest martinsbox]

76

I'll have to go into the deepest loft this weekend and check this out. Still got the write up in Black Echoes somewhere. Concidering it was 30 years ago, we have a lot to forget.

Martin

p.s. somewhere I have a 45rpm copy on 7" for sale if someone wants to make an offer.

Edited November 2, 2006 by martinsbox

[Guest martyn]

I'll have to go into the deepest loft this weekend and check this out. Still got the write up in Black Echoes somewhere. Concidering it was 30 years ago, we have a lot to forget.

Martin

p.s. somewhere I have a 45rpm copy on 45 for sale if someone wants to make an offer.

No,but I'll take Les Femmes for 11 quid if you like ......Maybe it was released in 77,but I'm sure it was getting plays in late 76

[Guest martinsbox]

No,but I'll take Les Femmes for 11 quid if you like ......Maybe it was released in 77,but I'm sure it was getting plays in late 76

Karl Boddington's got my old copy. Got it off another Martin at Wigan . . . Martin Ellis RIP.

The funny man of soul.

Martin

[Guest Trevski]

Probably the most readily accepted tailor made record has to be Carol Anderson "Sad girl' Fee. This was tailor made for the northern market, as a new 70's release, but with all the right credentials, US label, singer, producer etc. In fact, the reality of it being made specificaly for the northern market did not emerge til years later.

[Pete S]

Probably the most readily accepted tailor made record has to be Carol Anderson "Sad girl' Fee. This was tailor made for the northern market, as a new 70's release, but with all the right credentials, US label, singer, producer etc. In fact, the reality of it being made specificaly for the northern market did not emerge til years later.

Who made it for the northern scene? Never heard this story. And why would a US company aim at such a small market.

p.s. this record is worse than most of Levine's efforts

[Guest martinsbox]

Probably the most readily accepted tailor made record has to be Carol Anderson "Sad girl' Fee. This was tailor made for the northern market, as a new 70's release, but with all the right credentials, US label, singer, producer etc. In fact, the reality of it being made specificaly for the northern market did not emerge til years later.

Still I wouldn't mind a multi coloured original.

[Guest Trevski]

Who made it for the northern scene? Never heard this story. And why would a US company aim at such a small market.

p.s. this record is worse than most of Levine's efforts

Dunno Pete, remember reading it a few years ago, maybe on here? I think due to the successfull sales of the flaming emeralds on fee, and the subsequent re-issue, in this country, the label owners put out carol anderson. Maybe a track they already had 'in the can' and thought it would sell well. It certainly sold a good few thousand in it day.

[Guest martinsbox]

Dunno Pete, remember reading it a few years ago, maybe on here? I think due to the successfull sales of the flaming emeralds on fee, and the subsequent re-issue, in this country, the label owners put out carol anderson. Maybe a track they already had 'in the can' and thought it would sell well. It certainly sold a good few thousand in it day.

Got re-issued on an orange Fee lable I think & imported by Soul Bowl probably.

Martin

[Guest Trevski]

Still I wouldn't mind a multi coloured original.

Still one of the nicest looking labels i've seen

[Trev Thomas]

the dell-satins vocal to checkerboard squares (baby youre the fire) has got to be one of the best taylor made records, failing that how about bobby taylors "taylor made soul" album]

[Guest]

This has been stated so often that it has acquired the status of a fact. But is it really true? Isn't it rather true that so many of the great soul records of the 60s sounded very to different to Motown?

Both my statement and yours are true, but only the first one is more relevant in the context of this thread I think.

[Guest martyn]

Got re-issued on an orange Fee lable I think & imported by Soul Bowl probably.

Martin

I thought the Orange ones were first presses & the light green ones 2nd,although the light green one does seem less common these days

[Guest martyn]

Still one of the nicest looking labels i've seen

Agreed

Wasnt it booted on a look alike label?Seeem to remember some for sale on Ebay at a buy it now price of £14.99, 3 or 4 years back?

[Winnie :-)]

Who made it for the northern scene? Never heard this story. And why would a US company aim at such a small market.

p.s. this record is worse than most of Levine's efforts

================

It's just a nasty record full stop.

[jocko]

Agreed

Wasnt it booted on a look alike label?Seeem to remember some for sale on Ebay at a buy it now price of £14.99, 3 or 4 years back?

The boot has a different b-side (taking my mind or one of her other records) which is a shame as the B-Side to Sad Girl is one of my favorite ballads and had a lot to do with me discovering deep soul.

Not heard about it being made for the NS, quite surprising but I suppose given the times....

So above was someone saying CA came out on orange label, never seen this, have a fair few on this label actually,

Cheers

Jock

PS Pete you are wrong again, Sad Girl is a great record, you know you want to like it really!

[Guest Glawsters Best]

Agree always loved this, but my No1 fav is James Wells-'Baby I'm still the same man' and even better on the 12" played very, very loud

good shout dave and what about james bynam - 'Time Passes By'

sorry the debate is about taylor made tunes got the wrong end of the stick james bynam's not taylor made but still like james wells

leon

TALCUM POWDER SOUL

WWW.GLOUCESTERFM.COM

EVERY WEDNESDAY 7PM TO 9PM

IN THE GLOUCESTER AREA 96.6FM

Edited November 2, 2006 by Glawsters Best

[Guest martinsbox]

So above was someone saying CA came out on orange label, never seen this, have a fair few on this label actually,

Cheers

Jock

As Martyn correctly said Orange ones were first presses & the light green ones 2nd,although the light green one does seem less common these days. Then later came out on Soul Bowl's Grapevine label owned by John Anderson . . . no relation.

Martin

[Guest denmac]

the first time i heard the term"tailor made" was at the torch.al d`lory (?) right on was played for a while till someone said that it was only 2/3 years old. "must be a tailor made fa`scene ".curiously why was it made?. was it for film/tv `cos he did a few things in that line of work.

[Pete S]

the first time i heard the term"tailor made" was at the torch.al d`lory (?) right on was played for a while till someone said that it was only 2/3 years old. "must be a tailor made fa`scene ".curiously why was it made?. was it for film/tv `cos he did a few things in that line of work.

Right On is the instrumental version of Van Morrison's "Domino".

[Guest denmac]

pete, you just pressed a memory button,but at the time i was only 19 and was`nt listening to white hippies.did`nt know domino at that time,only domino i knew was fats and roy dockers label.

[Guest denmac]

sorry. was roy docker , domain?

[Guest]

Right On is the instrumental version of Van Morrison's "Domino".

Not quite but they're pretty similar.

[Billy Freemantle]

After so many posts no one has mentioned Tommy Hunt-Loving on the losing side,that wasn´t just tailor made it was a direct shot at the Wigan market!

What a tune as well ,would it generate so much dance floor action nowadays?

Steve

Always think of this as sub- Philly drivel. One of those records that made you ashamed to tell people you liked Northern. Wasn't this a Casino Classic? This a classic example of great singers being seduced into singing garbage to satisfy a market.

[Guest]

After so many posts no one has mentioned Tommy Hunt-Loving on the losing side,that wasn´t just tailor made it was a direct shot at the Wigan market!

What a tune as well ,would it generate so much dance floor action nowadays?

Steve

Always liked this one. Tommy sings it really well and it just has a certain 'something'. If it was 'rare' like the boring Drifters record on Epic (which was talior made for the Drifters market ) it would be in demand !

[Guest martinsbox]

Gone but not forgotten - cissy stone - decca 13646 (uk)

10953 refosoul

As well as Tommy Hunt' no one has so far mentioned Cissy Stone's 1976 Classic? "gone but not forgotten". Concidering it was a 'taylor-made', it's got quite a modern upbeat sound unlike most others mentioned so far.Martin

[Epic]

Right On is the instrumental version of Van Morrison's "Domino".

Dr Love - Bobby Sheen has a very similar melody.

[Codfromderby]

Gone but not forgotten - cissy stone - decca 13646 (uk)

10953 refosoul

As well as Tommy Hunt' no one has so far mentioned Cissy Stone's 1976 Classic? "gone but not forgotten". Concidering it was a 'taylor-made', it's got quite a modern upbeat sound unlike most others mentioned so far.Martin

cissy stone was one of the winners on either opportunity knocks or new faces, i didnt think it was tailor made for the northern market, in fact at the time it was a massive mainstream nightclub record, in fact i remember seeing her at either baileys or romeos and juliets in derby in the days when clubs had a live act on and you could dine on a chicken in a basket , also saw al matthews about the same time and 5000 volts

i also can remember james wells "same man" being advertised every where as soon to be released the one youve all been waiting for, however at the time i never met anyone who had heard it before it came out so i reckon a bit of hyping up was going on

[Pete S]

Not quite but they're pretty similar.

I'm not saying Right On is the backing track of Domino - but it is the same tune.

Edited November 4, 2006 by Pete-S

[Winnie :-)]

After so many posts no one has mentioned Tommy Hunt-Loving on the losing side,that wasn´t just tailor made it was a direct shot at the Wigan market!

What a tune as well ,would it generate so much dance floor action nowadays?

Steve

=============

Was played last night at 'Diamonds', can't say its a fave of mine, but can't deny the dance floor action it provoked either

[Guest]

This thread has reminded me of a question I've had stored in my head for years...whats the story behind Ron Grainer's 'When Love Grows Cold' on Casino Classics?

Is the CC 45 the original release. Was it actually played out anywhere?

[Guest]

When Love Grows Cold - ron grainer -

11049 refosoul

Not everyones cup of tea I know. I love it.

[Ringleader]

cissy stone was one of the winners on either opportunity knocks or new faces, i didnt think it was tailor made for the northern market, in fact at the time it was a massive mainstream nightclub record, in fact i remember seeing her at either baileys or romeos and juliets in derby in the days when clubs had a live act on and you could dine on a chicken in a basket , also saw al matthews about the same time and 5000 volts

You are right,The Cissy Stone track wasn't a "tailor made" for the Northern Scene. It was Written and produced by Paul Curtis who was attempting to re-create a U.S. "disco" sound. He did similar stuff with a then very young Hazel Dean. BTW Paul Curtis is also known as Mickey Moonshine.

[Billy Freemantle]

Ron Grainer was the composer behind lots of the TV shows that a lot of us grew up with - 'Steptoe' and 'Maigrait' to name two.'When Love grows cold' was written for the TV series 'Edward and Mrs Simpson.'

The late Ron has a website. www.rongrainer.org.uk

[Guest]

Ron Grainer was the composer behind lots of the TV shows that a lot of us grew up with - 'Steptoe' and 'Maigrait' to name two.'When Love grows cold' was written for the TV series 'Edward and Mrs Simpson.'

The late Ron has a website. www.rongrainer.org.uk

That's what fascinates me Billy. I can't imagine 'When Love Grows Cold' (in the form it takes here at least) was used in 'Edward And Mrs Simpson' ?

Casino Classics also released the 'Joe 90' theme and a version of Marc Wirtz's 'A Touch Of Velvet, A Sting Of Brass' by Ron Grainer too.

It sounds to me as tho 'Love Grows Cold' and 'Velvet' and 'Joe 90' were tailor made for the Northern market.

[Billy Freemantle]

It sounds to me as tho 'Love Grows Cold' and 'Velvet' and 'Joe 90' were tailor made for the Northern market.

I don't think it happened that way. The first and last were TV themes and as you point out A Touch of Velvet ( A Sting of Brass) was remake of a 1966 recording that I remember being very popular before Northern Soul was called Northern Soul.

Edited November 4, 2006 by Billy Freemantle

[Guest Netspeaky]

One of the most famous CUSTOM made records has to be THE FOUR TOPS - IT'S THE SAME OLD SONG, as this was a 5 minute creation to cash in on their previous hit.

I also have to agree with the defence of Mr Levine (Not a supporter usually) but 20/30 years down the line some of his creation have stood the test of time. If he wasn't connected to the scene then we would look at them differently.

[Guest martinsbox]

One of the most famous CUSTOM made records has to be THE FOUR TOPS - IT'S THE SAME OLD SONG, as this was a 5 minute creation to cash in on their previous hit.

I also have to agree with the defence of Mr Levine (Not a supporter usually) but 20/30 years down the line some of his creation have stood the test of time. If he wasn't connected to the scene then we would look at them differently.

Nothing wrong with Ian Levine, he by doing those taylor made sounds introduced a lot of us YOUNGSTERS to the scene years ago, and that can't be bad. Anyone arguing the point was obviously already on the scene to start with, any one after that was obviously too young to realise.

Martin