Philly Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 Any info on this being booted, I have searched and can find nothing suggesting or confirming that it has ... Thanks
Woodbutcher Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 Counterfeit copy using the original demo label design ... nearly. The repro label is incorrectly reproduced with no "sound hole" in the guitar that the Red Bird is playing , unlike every other Red Bird 45 out there. Original demos and issues both in Styrene , whereas the repro is pressesd on Vinyl. Originals with Delta # 57319 and a large raised 'X' in the runout ( large 'X' from the Shelley Products Ltd plant in Huntingdon station N.Y. that pressed up Red Birds 45's. Repros with "AR - 44650 - A" in the run-out , a number that in no way corresponds to the 1965 release.
Philly Posted January 2, 2017 Author Posted January 2, 2017 Yes have been told all this on FB too .. but this is styrene not vinyl
Cover-up Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 Why would this be booted? Great record, but surely never been in enough demand to merit a boot? Are there not Red Bird records on vinyl, but Canadian pressings?
Chalky Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 Records don't just revolve round the Northern Soul scene. Could've been done for another collecting scene???? Plenty of cheap and readily available records bootlegged, or more accurately counterfeited.
Philly Posted January 2, 2017 Author Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, chalky said: Records don't just revolve round the Northern Soul scene. Could've been done for another collecting scene???? Plenty of cheap and readily available records bootlegged, or more accurately counterfeited. You have made your opinion on Facebook don't know why you have also popped up here ? You are not a Mod here are you, don't want you opening or closing my posts like you did over there ....
Chalky Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Philly said: You have made your opinion on Facebook don't know why you have also popped up here ? You are not a Mod here are you, don't want you opening or closing my posts like you did over there .... I am a member and free to post where I like. My comment was made two hours ago and not in response to anything you said The photo is of the vinyl boot as you have been made aware. Edited January 2, 2017 by chalky
Woodbutcher Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 And the bootleg is even easier to spot in a side by side comparison that highlights the poor reproduction/printing on the bootleg label ... 1
Philly Posted January 2, 2017 Author Posted January 2, 2017 The question has been answered, thanks for your input
Woodbutcher Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 I know , I did half of the digging and answering here and elsewhere ... but thought it would be a good idea to post it here where it will be visible for anyone else to see for future reference ...
Chalky Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) I would imagine the West Coast press with the delta number isn't pressed at Shelley but at Monarch or Alco? The Shelley press, East Coast? has an Audio Matrix stamp in the run out. Edited January 3, 2017 by chalky 1
Tlscapital Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 13 hours ago, Philly said: Yes have been told all this on FB too .. but this is styrene not vinyl That is no styrene ! And yes, just another boot/reissue whatever...
Garethx Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 The only Red Bird 45 pressed on vinyl is Roddie Joy's "Come Back Baby".
Tlscapital Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Just now, garethx said: The only Red Bird 45 pressed on vinyl is Roddie Joy's "Come Back Baby". In the USA most of Red Bird biggest sellers had issues in different pressing plants and some on vinyl as well, so not only that 'come back baby' by Roddie Joy.
Garethx Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Chapel of Love by the Dixie Cups, the labels biggest-seller. Other than that I can't think of any others. Edited January 3, 2017 by garethx
Tlscapital Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 I use to kinda collect them Shangri-Las when I was a teen and remember having seen a few Red Bird records back then that were OVO vinyl. And just go on and check the site 45cat.com to have a few already... I rest this case.
Garethx Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 I've just looked at 45 cat and the only one I can see is "Chapel of Love" pressed at Columbia-Terra Haute. Even "Leader of the Pack" appears only on styrene pressed at Shelly, at Monarch and at Columbia-Pittman.
Garethx Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 40 minutes ago, chalky said: There is a vinyl issue of this Don't think so.
Tlscapital Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, garethx said: Don't think so. Here I agree with you ! If there is, I have never seen it !
The Yank Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 I've got a "Remember (Walking In The Sand)" by the Shangri-las promo on vinyl. 1
Tlscapital Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, the yank said: I've got a "Remember (Walking In The Sand)" by the Shangri-las promo on vinyl. There's quiet a few...
Chalky Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 17 minutes ago, tlscapital said: Here I agree with you ! If there is, I have never seen it ! John Browne's partner Tracey has one and Dave Pinches also confirms a rare issue. some of the scans on a google search look like vinyl although they ate not the best of scans/photos.
Tlscapital Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 11 minutes ago, chalky said: John Browne's partner Tracey has one and Dave Pinches also confirms a rare issue. some of the scans on a google search look like vinyl although they ate not the best of scans/photos. This is a styrene copy pressed at Monarch of which I'd love to see a demo of if anybody has one or seen one ?
Garethx Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 41 minutes ago, chalky said: John Browne's partner Tracey has one and Dave Pinches also confirms a rare issue. some of the scans on a google search look like vinyl although they ate not the best of scans/photos. The only vinyl scans of this title on popsike are other copies of the moody one mentioned in post one.
Chalky Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, garethx said: The only vinyl scans of this title on popsike are other copies of the moody one mentioned in post one. I haven't looked on popsike.
Chalky Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, tlscapital said: This is a styrene copy pressed at Monarch of which I'd love to see a demo of if anybody has one or seen one ? The top scan on 45cat is described as vinyl. The person who added the scan mentions in the comments below that it is the first and only vinyl Red Bird 45 he has seen. I've no reason to doubt what others have said regarding the vinyl issue. Canadian are vinyl as well apparently. Edited January 3, 2017 by chalky 1
Cover-up Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 This keeps getting stranger and stranger... When I first replied to this topic I was merely surprised the title had been counterfeited, but decided to dig out my copy for a look. My copy is an issue, with a strong yellow label and... it's on VINYL! Run-out grooves have LS-1113 etched in, with nothing else. The red colouring on the bird has shonky registration, but the Red Bird logo text is crisp and sharp.
Tlscapital Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, cover-up said: This keeps getting stranger and stranger... When I first replied to this topic I was merely surprised the title had been counterfeited, but decided to dig out my copy for a look. My copy is an issue, with a strong yellow label and... it's on VINYL! Run-out grooves have LS-1113 etched in, with nothing else. The red colouring on the bird has shonky registration, but the Red Bird logo text is crisp and sharp. Odd indeed. The label is clearly a copy of the styrene one. Blurry it makes me think of these old Ric-Tic bootlegs made in the 7T's. I can't quite make up if it's an old bootleg made for the beach scene or something else really. I've dug out my styrene now to see the if the matrix match or not. My run-out groove is smaller/narrower and the handwriting is different...
Cover-up Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, tlscapital said: This is a styrene copy pressed at Monarch of which I'd love to see a demo of if anybody has one or seen one ? White demo spotted on popsike... 1
Dave Pinch Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 There is one issue on popsike with loads of writing on label.. Looks like vinyl to me .. Maybe john browne can post tracy's copy up.. Im away from home and i got no idea how ro copy and paste via mobile
Tlscapital Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, dave pinch said: There is one issue on popsike with loads of writing on label.. Looks like vinyl to me .. Maybe john browne can post tracy's copy up.. Im away from home and i got no idea how ro copy and paste via mobile Dave, if you refer to the Popsike one with "SYDNEY" writing on, it's the same pressing as the vinyl one here above. Most of those vinyl copies have big WOL like name and or sticker on... 1
Dave Pinch Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 1 hour ago, tlscapital said: Dave, if you refer to the Popsike one with "SYDNEY" writing on, it's the same pressing as the vinyl one here above. Most of those vinyl copies have big WOL like name and or sticker on... Yes thats the one..
Chalky Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 11 hours ago, tlscapital said: Dave, if you refer to the Popsike one with "SYDNEY" writing on, it's the same pressing as the vinyl one here above. Most of those vinyl copies have big WOL like name and or sticker on... 9 hours ago, dave pinch said: Yes thats the one..
Chalky Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 The bird runs off the label on the vinyl copy unlike the others where the whole bird is visible.
45cellar Posted January 6, 2017 Posted January 6, 2017 Just had a quick look through my collection. Even though they may be different pressing plants and quite common records, the quality of printing and position of logo are spot on. Vinyl Styrene Vinyl Styrene
Woodbutcher Posted January 6, 2017 Posted January 6, 2017 25 minutes ago, 45cellar said: Just had a quick look through my collection. Even though they may be different pressing plants and quite common records, the quality of printing and position of logo are spot on. Well that could have something to do with the fact that none of the 45's you posted were the bootlegged Roddie Joy which is the 45 in question ...
45cellar Posted January 6, 2017 Posted January 6, 2017 Yes I know that. My point was that very often when bootlegs or counterfiets are made the quality lacks in one way or another. I was looking to more common records for comparison of manufacture. Vinyl and Styrene.
Woodbutcher Posted January 6, 2017 Posted January 6, 2017 A point that was demonstrated earlier in the thread with the direct side by side comparison between the boot and original labels ...
Chalky Posted January 6, 2017 Posted January 6, 2017 I can't help thinking something doesn't look right with the vinyl issue of the record in question. The bird just doesn't look right running off the inner edge of the label.
Woodbutcher Posted January 6, 2017 Posted January 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, chalky said: I can't help thinking something doesn't look right with the vinyl issue of the record in question. The bird just doesn't look right running off the inner edge of the label. True , but if you look at 45cellar's pictures above the registration is different on all of them , beit the Bird or the Styvesant lettering at the bottom ... ?
45cellar Posted January 6, 2017 Posted January 6, 2017 The actual bird and guitar appear to have been printed in red and then over printed black on the guitar leaving a red glow down one side. I don't think that I have seen this on others.
Chalky Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 10 hours ago, WoodButcher said: True , but if you look at 45cellar's pictures above the registration is different on all of them , beit the Bird or the Styvesant lettering at the bottom ... ? But on none does the bird run off the label, it is constantly in the same position although the issue is slightly lower than the demos? Do all yours have any mastering or pressing plant stamp Roger?
45cellar Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Yes Chalky Roddie Joy - Come Back Baby The Butterflys - I Wonder Both have a Faint Audio Matrix The 3 Styrene below I have a Leader Of The Pack DEMO with Monarch and Audio Matrix The Dixie Cups Chapel Of Love with Monarch, Audio Matrix and Bell Sound Shangri-las I Can Never Go Home Any More / Sophisticated Boom Boom with simply a Raised X 2
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