So how many dj on here with bootlegs and re-issue vinyl?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, wiggyflat said:

I think you need to address this with the promoter.

If I played an oldies event I would try to bring the top 500 on originals and would try to play any requests.Most sensible people knows what the oldies crowd want.

If it was a non ovo event ditto or I would turn the gig down if the promoter insisted i play boots!.

If someone was booked for a non ovo event and brought boots he should be able to please an oldies crowd with his boots.If he can't then he needs to go to read some books.Kev Roberts Top 500 would be a start or John Manship's Bootleg Guide.

If he has turned up at an oldies ovo event and has not enough ovo  oldies to keep the crowd happy ie there were requests for Cheatin Kind or Court Davis then the promoter should have booked Phil Dick or Mick H or a person who has a good selection of oldies.

 

If it is a newies upfront event then it's get your plates and unreleased's out and your esoteric bits.Ovo of course. 

This OVO debate...the old  "pressings" were done for monetary reasons.Records were dropped and people were after the new sound.(Well the select deejays_ were after new sound).Pressings were played at home or the local Pidgeon Club.They now have a new use at the modern equivalent of the Pidgeon Club where everyone can be a star for 5 mins and "fill the floor". ....meanwhile at other events the ethos of playing the new sound still goes on but the majorityof people are busy at the pidgeon club.Anyway I am waiting for the new term. N.B.P (Never Been Pressed Events) 

I wish I could give you more than 1 rep for this reply.

That is exactly the kind of reply I was looking for from a collector with a good selection of OV.

The boot thing seems to have dragged on for years and at times it has ended up with people having egg on their face one way or another.

Personally I would not put an OVO gig on because I do not  have the funds to do so or the funds to book a DJ that could supply the records needed for such an event and unfortunately I don't know many people who would do it as a favor lol

I would not insist that anyone play boots either.

What I have discovered on this thread is that to some DJ'S having the OV is the be all and end all of the question and if you can't or are unwilling to spend lots of money and time traveling to gigs where DJ's play OV then we are not allowed to be part of the scene anymore because the collectors own the right to the scene! They do not care that not everyone can afford to spend lots of money on records etc.

Lots of us are older and have more things that need the money we have to spend on living costs etc, we are not young kids anymore who had nothing to pay out other than our board money at home.

Without the local gigs where boots can be played the social part of the scene would be lost to many of us and at our age we look forward to meeting up with friends to have a good time and enjoy the thing that brings us all together. THE MUSIC.

Once again, Thank you for your reply :-)

Merry Christmas.

[Shinehead]

7 hours ago, Majy said:

 

Without the local gigs where boots can be played the social part of the scene would be lost to many of us and at our age we look forward to meeting up with friends to have a good time and enjoy the thing that brings us all together. THE MUSIC.

 

 

Each to their own , take from the music what you can and enjoy it, if local soul nights playing oldies is your thing do it , other people would sooner travel to hear records still been broken or records only played by a select few on ovo .

Nobody is right or wrong just two different ideas on the way the scene fulfils their life.

Still don,t get the dressing up thing that seems to go on at a lot of these oldies nights though  

All the best for Christmas and the New Year.

[Peter99]

4 minutes ago, shinehead said:

 

 

Still don,t get the dressing up thing that seems to go on at a lot of these oldies nights though  

All the best for Christmas and the New Year.

You've not seen me in my tights Graham. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, shinehead said:

Each to their own , take from the music what you can and enjoy it, if local soul nights playing oldies is your thing do it , other people would sooner travel to hear records still been broken or records only played by a select few on ovo .

Nobody is right or wrong just two different ideas on the way the scene fulfils their life.

Still don,t get the dressing up thing that seems to go on at a lot of these oldies nights though  

All the best for Christmas and the New Year.

I'm with you on the dressing up bit but as you say "each to their own"

All the best for Christmas and the New Year to you too.

[Shinehead]

10 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

You've not seen me in my tights Graham. 

Nor do I want to , with Forest thing do you look like the Sherriff of Nottingham or any of the other camp characters from the Forest in your tights.

 

  

[Sjclement]

12 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Many of these are now scarce. A few are outright rare. Golden World Strings is a bootleg. Devotees have travelled far and wide to hear these records down the decades as they appreciate the fidelity of the original sound and the authenticity of the record. Any Tom, Dick or Harry could amass heaps of bootlegs, reissues etc and put together a catchy set for a pub night, but the punters would not be overly impressed as they might as well stay at home and listen to a CD. Truly rare records can make a good soul-nite extra special. Some DJ's will use a slow starting evening to experiment with unknown sounds to gauge crowd reaction but novices occasionally spin to please themselves which is not what it's all about really.

Any Tom Dick or Harry could faithfully reproduce that playlist all have been booted (except You Want It You Got It which was played from an album by Donald Austin, and sunk into obscurity perhaps because it was a more sophisticated sound than the others on the list), 

[Chalky]

8 hours ago, Majy said:

I

Without the local gigs where boots can be played the social part of the scene would be lost to many of us and at our age we look forward to meeting up with friends to have a good time and enjoy the thing that brings us all together. THE MUSIC.

Once again, Thank you for your reply :-)

Merry Christmas.

Load of bollocks.  There are countless local gigs up and down the country all paying original vinyl.  Many are thriving maybe not musically, but certainly socially.  There are events to cater for all tastes and styles so you have no reason really to go anywhere you are not going to enjoy the night.

Bootlegs are illegal, you may as well play from Cds as in many cases a license has been paid.  You seem to forget without those seeking out these expensive and rare records there would be nothing to bootleg.

Edited December 20, 2016 by chalky

[Kevinkent]

10 hours ago, Majy said:

contradicted himself?

How have I done that? Examples please.

Plenty of contradictions on here mate. You seem to be confusing the issue of dj's who can or can't fill the floor, with the old OV and Boots thing.

The whole gist of your thread can be summed up with your lack of understanding as self professed here:

On 18/12/2016 at 18:31, Majy said:

Your right I don't understand the point of OVO! And i don't understand the point of only playing OV either.

.....Which is contradicted with this:

23 hours ago, Majy said:

I agree with you for the most part and 100% agree about "Now counterfeits that are set to deceive WRONG !!!!" deffo WRONG.

 

Boots - they are ALL set to deceive mate. Some visually as well as aurally, but all set to deceive and all WRONG.

- Kev

Edited December 20, 2016 by KevinKent
Spelling

[Guest 1 huskyvan]

F.W  do I love you .The originals suspicion. Melba more magic touch betty boo say it ain't so Larry Clinton she's wanted del larks job opening where have you heard these b4 can guarantee most people have heard these played out and not walked out in protest and how many on hear herd dewy black taking love played out shame because it's a fantastic record buried in some collection never to be heard 

[BrianB]

11 hours ago, Majy said:

contradicted himself?

How have I done that? Examples please.

Again a classic Troller's response. I quote loads of examples and you try to dissect them, thus prolonging the thread.

I'm all for debate but not with you.

[Mike]

 

thanks to all who have took part so far

some 'interesting' posts been posted in this often repeated/discussed topic

as always this often repeated topic does raise all sorts of discussion points and passions and in the past the discussion can run away with itself leading to all sorts of fun

so to try and avoid this this time around  am putting a clock on it all 

as in will close the topic  at 1700 hrs today and ask all members to give it a few days before revisiting any ovo v boots talk

thinking is that by then all members have had a chance to discuss, post etc their views and such, and hopefully may  avoid any of the pitfalls that we all sometimes fall into with such topics

thanks again

mike

 

please use the support forum here for further talk on this or other moderation 

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/forum/41-support/

[Guest James Hill]

I must admit it drive me mad to follow a DJ who has just played a boot which I was thinking of playing the Orig that in my play box

Also guested at a venue when it just been played from a CD

 

[Kegsy]

4 minutes ago, James Hill said:

I must admit it drive me mad to follow a DJ who has just played a boot which I was thinking of playing the Orig that in my play box

Also guested at a venue when it just been played from a CD

 

Perhaps you should put more than one record in your play box, sorry just couldn't resist .

[JIMMY SOUL]

It’s quite simple, the problem lies in the fact that separate “scenes” exist, and that there is some kind of desire for them to be shoehorned together, like they are still one and the same thing. They are clearly not, and if someone known for playing more unknown/ “up front” material is booked to play at a oldies/ nostalgia event, then it’s probably not going to work, and vice-versa.
Generally speaking, if people just stick to the events that work for them, pick wisely, they’ll be happy!

It's a bit like a vegan turning up to a "barbeque meat grill" restaurant and then moaning it's not what they were looking for... 

Live and let live, and accept that there are some people who want to listen to their favourites every week and are not bothered about format, and that some of us want to hear/ collect new (to us) things and only want originals without compromise and therefore we make our selections about where we go. Put it this way, I am never unhappy about any of the events that I attend regularly.

[Len]

8 minutes ago, JIMMY SOUL said:

It's a bit like a vegan turning up to a "barbeque meat grill" restaurant and then moaning it's not what they were looking for... 

But surely the vegan would at least try the steak if it was 'rare' 

Len 

[JIMMY SOUL]

1 minute ago, LEN said:

But surely the vegan would at least try the steak if it was 'rare' 

Len 

hahahaha who can possibly say!! 

[Markw]

3 minutes ago, LEN said:

But surely the vegan would at least try the steak if it was 'rare' 

Len 

BOOM! BOOM!! Mr Lenny!!!!

[Markw]

They might not try the steak if it was like an old boot though!!?

Edited December 20, 2016 by markw

[Guest James Hill]

18 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

Perhaps you should put more than one record in your play box, sorry just couldn't resist .

LOL cheeky fu**er

 

[Girdwoodinc]

Is this just yet another fishing thread...same old arguments time and time again...yawn...

[Shinehead]

6 minutes ago, Soul children said:

Is this just yet another fishing thread...same old arguments time and time again...yawn...

 

6 minutes ago, Soul children said:

Is this just yet another fishing thread...same old arguments time and time again...yawn...

No its about Northern Soul not Northern Sole .  

[Girdwoodinc]

Just now, shinehead said:

 

No its about Northern Soul not Northern Sole .  

I see what you did there ;)

[Bbrich]

23 hours ago, 1 huskyvan said:

sorry 1 huskyvan dont know why it refers to you in my response & i cant edit it out(?)

Surely there are plenty of cheap oldies (incl some in the 'top500') that would be familiar to most people attending a 'local' pub type do - so i cant see any reason to play boots or re-issues even if a 'dj' cant afford any biggies. If a so called 'dj' cant do that why are they bothering?  there doesn't appear to be any shortage of people prepared to stand behind the decks.

Also am i the only one who attends venues where a right mixture of of oldies and upfront gets played and it is not as defined as oldies only or upfront only ?

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Off topic I know but did someone mention Homing Pigeons?

[Gold Band]

12 hours ago, wiggyflat said:

I think you need to address this with the promoter.

If I played an oldies event I would try to bring the top 500 on originals and would try to play any requests.Most sensible people know what the oldies crowd want.

If it was a non ovo event ditto or I would turn the gig down if the promoter insisted i play boots!.

If someone was booked for a non ovo event and brought boots he should be able to please an oldies crowd with his boots.If he can't then he needs to go to read some books.Kev Roberts Top 500 would be a start or John Manship's Bootleg Guide or ask himself why is he deejaying and not learning the ropes first.

If he has turned up at an oldies ovo event and has not enough ovo  oldies to keep the crowd happy ie there were requests for Cheatin Kind or Court Davis then the promoter should have booked Phil Dick or Mick H or a person who has a good selection of oldies.

 

If it is a newies upfront event then it's get your plates and unreleased's out and your esoteric bits.Ovo of course. 

This OVO debate...the old  "pressings" were done for monetary reasons.Records were dropped and people were after the new sound.(Well the select deejays_ were after new sound).Pressings were played at home or the local Pidgeon Club.They now have a new use at the modern equivalent of the Pidgeon Club where everyone can be a star for 5 mins and "fill the floor". ....meanwhile at other events the ethos of playing the new sound still goes on but the majorityof people are busy at the pidgeon club.Anyway I am waiting for the new term. N.B.P (Never Been Pressed Events) 

N.B.P. All the way for me all those unissued tracks that never get an airing only played as MP3's or CD at home could be a fantastic night that should do away with the OVO arguments. That's until someone boots them & starts playing them out at events up & down the country. It would be sad that people would be able to listen & dance to music recorded that was never released as at the time it was considered not good enough for issue. There are some crap unearthed sounds but there is also some top tunes that have been discovered either released or not. But as some have said on this site there are some dedicated people on here that have unearthed some real gems either on tape or on acetates from vaults around the world & I for one congratulate them on bringing me new sounds to listen to whether they are to my personal taste or not as hey were not all the same. but I did like the Vegans with steak gag. P.S DJ's will do what they want, I now what events I would rather attend personally but I suppose I am just SELFISH!!!! Me Myself & I all the way.

Kirsty

[Chalky]

4 hours ago, 1 huskyvan said:

F.W  do I love you .The originals suspicion. Melba more magic touch betty boo say it ain't so Larry Clinton she's wanted del larks job opening where have you heard these b4 can guarantee most people have heard these played out and not walked out in protest and how many on hear herd dewy black taking love played out shame because it's a fantastic record buried in some collection never to be heard 

Heard Dewey Black quite a few times over the years.

[Tattoodave]

2 hours ago, LEN said:

But surely the vegan would at least try the steak if it was 'rare' 

Len 

No I wouldn't, I can't even look in a butcher's window

[Peter Richer]

Sadly, too many members here have allowed this Majy chap to deliberately make a mockery of the OVO debate. As already pointed out, it has obviously just been a wind up.

There should have been no reply to his original post (or ridiculous follow ups) at all; except to provide a link to one or two previous discussions (which he will have been well aware of anyway) with the comment of 'come back if there is genuinely anything you don't understand, or anything new to add'.

For goodness sake, this individual has supposedly been a member here for six and a half years. Can anyone really be that dense? Certainly not our proverbial bootleg playing monkey! Six and a half years of ignorance, folks; and until he started this thread only four - yes, count 'em, FOUR - previous posts.

The conclusions are obvious.

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, KevinKent said:

Plenty of contradictions on here mate. You seem to be confusing the issue of dj's who can or can't fill the floor, with the old OV and Boots thing.

The whole gist of your thread can be summed up with your lack of understanding as self professed here:

.....Which is contradicted with this:

 

Boots - they are ALL set to deceive mate. Some visually as well as aurally, but all set to deceive and all WRONG.

- Kev

Hardly a contradiction mate (shakes head)

Boots are what the scene was built on m8 whether you choose to admit it or not. Why else do you think there has always been a massive demand for them? And yes I mean from the early days of the Torch and Twisted Wheel too! Wigan was famous for wanting boots.

I just don't like the ones that are trying to charge you a fortune for a fake that looks almost identical to an OV.  They are deceitful thieves. At least the ones I buy from are telling you up front that they are boots.

[Ian Stacey]

1 hour ago, chalky said:

Heard Dewey Black quite a few times over the years.

   have heard it chalky but im sorry I do not really think its in the same class as the other mentioned & at £1200  price tag

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Peter Richer said:

Sadly, too many members here have allowed this Majy chap to deliberately make a mockery of the OVO debate. As already pointed out, it has obviously just been a wind up.

There should have been no reply to his original post (or ridiculous follow ups) at all; except to provide a link to one or two previous discussions (which he will have been well aware of anyway) with the comment of 'come back if there is genuinely anything you don't understand, or anything new to add'.

For goodness sake, this individual has supposedly been a member here for six and a half years. Can anyone really be that dense? Certainly not our proverbial bootleg playing monkey! Six and a half years of ignorance, folks; and until he started this thread only four - yes, count 'em, FOUR - previous posts.

The conclusions are obvious.

 

If it's old rubbish and of no interest to you why bother reading and commenting on the thread?

Just had to get your two-penneth in and add to your own post count no doubt, sad really really sad. 11 years a member and just over 300 posts yourself mate.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

Thanks to all for participating in the thread.

I know a lot of people think this was a fishing exorcise but I can assure it was NOT!

I have read quite a lot of threads on here about boots etc but this was not a question solely about boots (shakes head) it was a question of why dont DJ's play boots at gigs when they are clearly not doing a good job of keeping the dance floor going but insist on playing OV that not many are showing interest in? But like other threads on here the COLLECTORS turn it into a boots V ov thread and nothing to do with the thread it's self.

Obviously the thread title and question under it did not and does not say Collectors are wrong and bootleggers are right! It was and still is a question about DJ's not wanting to keep the dance floor happy which after all is the DJ's job.

Collectors on here are so quick to jump in to defensive mode and think the thread is an attack against them when that is not the case. That is why so many of them have said this is a fishing and wind up post.

In the 4 pages (so far) of this thread only 2 postees have actually tried to answer the question raised with any sense of what the question was about.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Guest

[ajb]

35 minutes ago, Majy said:

Hardly a contradiction mate (shakes head)

Boots are what the scene was built on m8 whether you choose to admit it or not. Why else do you think there has always been a massive demand for them? And yes I mean from the early days of the Torch and Twisted Wheel too! Wigan was famous for wanting boots.

I just don't like the ones that are trying to charge you a fortune for a fake that looks almost identical to an OV.  They are deceitful thieves. At least the ones I buy from are telling you up front that they are boots.

[Guest 1 huskyvan]

1 hour ago, chalky said:

Heard Dewey Black quite a few times over the years.

What so you've heard it as many times as others mentioned or are you purposely missing the point been to Blackburn Bridlington Scarborough I've never heard it played 

[JIMMY SOUL]

The main issue here though is that not all events are purely about the dance floor.... indeed some events are barely about the dance floor at all...
There are plenty of events about that are though, and if that is your thing you can attend them! It's your choice.

Possibly you might be attending the wrong events if you object to records being played that are not "well know dancers"?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, JIMMY SOUL said:

The main issue here though is that not all events are purely about the dance floor.... indeed some events are barely about the dance floor at all...
There are plenty of events about that are though, and if that is your thing you can attend them! It's your choice.

Possibly you might be attending the wrong events if you object to records being played that are not "well know dancers"?

Dear god :-(

Does anyone on here actually understand the question raised or what?

I go to mostly oldies gigs (that is where my passion is) and I go to across the board gigs too.

I have no problem at all with anyone playing OVO at any gig if they can keep the dance floor going. I also accept that anyone turning up to OVO gigs should not play boots if it is an OVO gig. I also accept that if a DJ is booked for a gig and He is able to keep the dance floor going with OV that he should be asked if he minded other guest DJ's playing boots. If he does then the promoter who is expecting other DJ's to play boots should not book said DJ. If he is fine with that then thats great.

MY PROBLEM is with the ones that turn up to a local gig knowing there are going to be DJ's who play boots and where the punters have come out to dance why some DJ's will not try to keep the dance floor going when that is what they have been booked to do. When it is obvious that the music they are playing is not what the crowd want to hear. Why do they persist in playing it to an empty dancefloor?

Not a fucking hard question to answer is it? or at least it shouldn't be.

 

[JIMMY SOUL]

I think the question you are asking has nothing to do with bootlegs or original records, it's actually about the music itself, not being right for the venue/ event. It's easy to muddle the two things together - reading between the lines my conclusion is that what you REALLY want to know is why would someone persist playing records to an empty floor, and not "stick on those records they know will get the floor moving".
The answer is probably more to do with the promoter booking the wrong DJ, or the DJ anticipating that the people would want a certain "sound" and trying to deliver that, and then simply not having the right material in the playbox to suit the event. 
It's happened to me before, and I hold my hands up and admit I have misread what "I thought" would go down well, and I had to do a set where i just had the wrong material on the occasion. Shit happens. This is what happens when you "have your thing" as a collector and collect certain sounds, rather than hawking a 500 box of "tried and tested" and playing the same old thing, like so many people seem to aspire to do.
Live by the sword die by the sword.
I don't think anyone would ever set out to deliberately empty the floor LOL, again it's about the type of event, the style of music etc.
 

[Steve S 60]

14 minutes ago, Majy said:

Dear god :-(

Does anyone on here actually understand the question raised or what?

I go to mostly oldies gigs (that is where my passion is) and I go to across the board gigs too.

I have no problem at all with anyone playing OVO at any gig if they can keep the dance floor going. I also accept that anyone turning up to OVO gigs should not play boots if it is an OVO gig. I also accept that if a DJ is booked for a gig and He is able to keep the dance floor going with OV that he should be asked if he minded other guest DJ's playing boots. If he does then the promoter who is expecting other DJ's to play boots should not book said DJ. If he is fine with that then thats great.

MY PROBLEM is with the ones that turn up to a local gig knowing there are going to be DJ's who play boots and where the punters have come out to dance why some DJ's will not try to keep the dance floor going when that is what they have been booked to do. When it is obvious that the music they are playing is not what the crowd want to hear. Why do they persist in playing it to an empty dancefloor?

Not a fucking hard question to answer is it? or at least it shouldn't be.

 

.So why do you think they do it?

[Chalky]

33 minutes ago, 1 huskyvan said:

What so you've heard it as many times as others mentioned or are you purposely missing the point been to Blackburn Bridlington Scarborough I've never heard it played 

Well I've heard it at various venues over the last 20 years at least, Burnley, Lifeline, Grumpy, Venue in Birmingham.  I don't make things up so you'll have to take my word for it.

[Peter99]

3 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Off topic I know but did someone mention Homing Pigeons?

 

[Mike]

5 hours ago, mike said:

 

thanks to all who have took part so far

some 'interesting' posts been posted in this often repeated/discussed topic

as always this often repeated topic does raise all sorts of discussion points and passions and in the past the discussion can run away with itself leading to all sorts of fun

so to try and avoid this this time around  am putting a clock on it all 

as in will close the topic  at 1700 hrs today and ask all members to give it a few days before revisiting any ovo v boots talk

thinking is that by then all members have had a chance to discuss, post etc their views and such, and hopefully may  avoid any of the pitfalls that we all sometimes fall into with such topics

thanks again

mike

 

please use the support forum here for further talk on this or other moderation 

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/forum/41-support/

ok now 1700 hrs so thats that for this round of ovo v boot discussion

topic now closed for the reasons said above