So how many dj on here with bootlegs and re-issue vinyl?

[Soul Shrews]

3 minutes ago, Majy said:

 (even OV records were dropped when another DJ had an OV copy) it had nothing to do with boots alone.

Can you name one please ?

Cheers Paul

[Peter99]

3 minutes ago, Majy said:

Ok, lets get this thread back on topic.

back in the day (Lets take Wigan for an example) DJ's of the day went out of their way to cover records up and give them false names and titles. Was this because they wanted to be 1 up on the other DJ's or was it because it was a rare record? (the point here is, did they want people to come to listen to them because they had that record or because it was a rare record) You see that's the difference for me between a DJ and a rare record collector.

Records were covered up to retain exlusivity. Having the best records as a dj got you a following. Some were very rare, some not so rare but generally unknown. People went to hear particular records because they couldn't hear them elsewhere. Until of course they were booted - and then as has been said the record was dropped. 

[Soul Shrews]

1 minute ago, hornet said:

Did they 

Yes

[Peter99]

5 minutes ago, Majy said:

In your dreams mate lol

Some were dropped because the DJ had lost a record only he had to that point (even OV records were dropped when another DJ had an OV copy) it had nothing to do with boots alone.

That's one of the points I've been trying to make - exclusivity. 

[Guest]

The top and bottom of this thread is that I love the music. I am not a record collector, though I have quite a few (both OV and Boots and even some genuine Re-Issues) to me the music is more important than whether it is on OV or not. I couldn't care less if it is played on OV, CD or Booted. I just want to hear the music and dance to it.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, soul shrews said:

Can you name one please ?

Cheers Paul

LOU RAGLAND - I TRAVEL ALONE

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

Records were covered up to retain exlusivity. Having the best records as a dj got you a following. Some were very rare, some not so rare but generally unknown. People went to hear particular records because they couldn't hear them elsewhere. Until of course they were booted - and then as has been said the record was dropped. 

So the thousands that went to Wigan and other places went to hear records that only 1 DJ had? and the dancers only danced to records that only 1 DJ had? It was not about the music itself then? Just about how rare that record was.

Funny how all the people I knew/know on the scene  wanted to go all over the country to dance to records they had fallen in love with and not to see if any DJ was braking a new record in.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

That's one of the points I've been trying to make - exclusivity. 

So you think that because it was dropped at Wigan that it never got played anywhere else and people refused to dance to it because 2 or more DJ's had a copy of it.

[Ian Stacey]

      Evening  this is an interesting thread 

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Majy said:

I have nothing against anyone who wants to collect rare records that's up to them, I just don't understand the point about OVO gigs.

As for giving it the large one I completely understand that too :-( to many people do that on both sides of the argument.

Those who play boots usually play boots of the so called OVO records you refer to. 

[Peter99]

18 minutes ago, Majy said:

In your dreams mate lol

Some were dropped because the DJ had lost a record only he had to that point (even OV records were dropped when another DJ had an OV copy) it had nothing to do with boots alone.

I didn't mean that. There were a number of top dj's who had exclusive records. I used to pick my venues based solely on who was playing because I know what I wanted to hear. Let's not forget that back in the day most people were completely off their rockers on amphetamines. They danced to anything! 

[Soul Shrews]

10 minutes ago, Majy said:

LOU RAGLAND - I TRAVEL ALONE

Really ? Played as a regular spin not just at oldies events ? I am surprised

Cheers Paul

[Peter99]

3 minutes ago, Majy said:

So you think that because it was dropped at Wigan that it never got played anywhere else and people refused to dance to it because 2 or more DJ's had a copy of it.

That isn't what I said or think. 

Im going for a lie down. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, redditchcrew said:

      Evening  this is an interesting thread 

It was started to try and understand why some DJ's wont play anything other than OV recordings. To me a DJ plays for the people who turn up for the music and not for themselves. The music does not know it is a boot copy and neither do the dancers on the dance floor.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

I didn't mean that. There were a number of top dj's who had exclusive records. I used to pick my venues based solely on who was playing because I know what I wanted to hear. Let's not forget that back in the day most people were completely off their rockers on amphetamines. They danced to anything! 

I have to hold my hands up to that mate cause I was one of em lol

[Peter99]

4 minutes ago, Majy said:

It was started to try and understand why some DJ's wont play anything other than OV recordings. 

My final post - well maybe for a bit. 

Because they believe in their craft, they invest their time and money. People resorting to playing boots are lazy, make believe dj's who don't give a fuck.

Right, I'm off to the top of our stairs. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, chalky said:

Those who play boots usually play boots of the so called OVO records you refer to. 

Yes mate that's probably true but if you want to go that way we could also say that those OV copies were also ripped off from other peoples music (Cab Calloway - Johnnie Taylor - Blues In The Night) for example. So really it is not an original but a copy.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

My final post - well maybe for a bit. 

Because they believe in their craft, they invest their time and money. People resorting to playing boots are lazy, make believe dj's who don't give a fuck.

Right, I'm off to the top of our stairs. 

Gnight mate and thank you for contributing to the thread :-)

[Steveh73]

There's thousands of sixties and seventies soul records out there - on OV 45s and albums. Is it too much to ask that DJs construct a set that manages to move the crowd and manages to avoid a reliance on predictable, played out 'classics?

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, steveh73 said:

There's thousands of sixties and seventies soul records out there - on OV 45s and albums. Is it too much to ask that DJs construct a set that manages to move the crowd and manages to avoid a reliance on predictable, played out 'classics?

That is my point mate exactly. So why do some DJ's not care enough about the people that come to dance and are happy to see 3 or 4 people on the dance floor within a room of 100 or more people sat about for an hour because thay just want to play OV that they have brought with them? I have never understood that and never will.

I have to admit that I am more into the oldies 60's stuff but I also like some newer stuff too but a good mix will keep almost everyone happy at most gigs it's just the ones that couldn't care less about the dance floor :-(

Edit.

And it is not because I have not heard those records before it is more that they are not really danceable records or they do not get my feet tapping.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Majy said:

In your dreams mate lol

Some were dropped because the DJ had lost a record only he had to that point (even OV records were dropped when another DJ had an OV copy) it had nothing to do with boots alone.

Completely wrong there mate!..............I still have an early Wigan tape which I recorded from the stage in 74 where Russ announces over the mic after playing Dana Valery "Anyone want that copy....7 quid"...........the same night the Pussycat boot hit the record boxes. That was more or less a weekly happening, as soon as a top sound got booted it was dropped, not by all the DJs but the majority.

And it has always been about the rare originals going back before bootlegs and well before reissues were on the scene!

Most of these nouveau "DJs" with their sudden "Collections" are shit anyway, mic-shy with no idea of timing and can`t stitch a set together correctly but they get the bookings because they all DJ for each other........far too many wannabe DJs and promoters out there and they are ruining what was a very good underground music scene!

The only decent nights nowadays are the nighters but some of us old stagers just can`t hack it anymore, I like to be in my bed by 2am......  the scene is becoming a watered down mess.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Guest

[Russoul1]

6 minutes ago, Majy said:

That is my point mate exactly. So why do some DJ's not care enough about the people that come to dance and are happy to see 3 or 4 people on the dance floor within a room of 100 or more people sat about for an hour because thay just want to play OV that they have brought with them? I have never understood that and never will.

I have to admit that I am more into the oldies 60's stuff but I also like some newer stuff too but a good mix will keep almost everyone happy at most gigs it's just the ones that couldn't care less about the dance floor :-(

Edit.

And it is not because I have not heard those records before it is more that they are not really danceable records or they do not get my feet tapping.

maybe the 3 or 4 dancing are real and the rest sat are handbaggers....by the sound of the soul nights you may attend

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Steve Lane said:

Completely wrong there mate!..............I still have an early Wigan tape which I recorded from the stage in 74 where Russ announces over the mic after playing Dana Valery "Anyone want that copy....7 quid"...........the same night the Pussycat boot hit the record boxes. That was more or less a weekly happening, as soon as a top sound got booted it was dropped, not by all the DJs but the majority.

And it has always been about the rare originals going back before bootlegs and well before reissues were on the scene!

Most of these nouveau "DJs" with their sudden "Collections" are shit anyway, no idea of timing and can`t stitch a set together correctly but they get the bookings because they all DJ for each other........far too many wannabee DJs and promoters out there and they are ruining what was a very good underground music scene!

Read the above.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Steve Lane said:

Completely wrong there mate!..............I still have an early Wigan tape which I recorded from the stage in 74 where Russ announces over the mic after playing Dana Valery "Anyone want that copy....7 quid"...........the same night the Pussycat boot hit the record boxes. That was more or less a weekly happening, as soon as a top sound got booted it was dropped, not by all the DJs but the majority.

And it has always been about the rare originals going back before bootlegs and well before reissues were on the scene!

Most of these nouveau "DJs" with their sudden "Collections" are shit anyway, no idea of timing and can`t stitch a set together correctly but they get the bookings because they all DJ for each other........far too many wannabe DJs and promoters out there and they are ruining what was a very good underground music scene!

The only decent nights nowadays are the nighters but some of us old stagers just can`t hack it anymore and the scene is becoming a watered down mess.

I was there that night mate lol

[Guest]

 "Anyone want that copy....7 quid............& it`s 8 for Russell Steel."

And I still can`t remember  what the Russell Steel track was!

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, russoul1 said:

maybe the 3 or 4 dancing are real and the rest sat are handbaggers....by the sound of the soul nights you may attend

Maybe they were handbaggers as you call them (including myself) but I was there to dance not to listen to someones personal record collection.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Steve Lane said:

 "Anyone want that copy....7 quid............& it`s 8 for Russell Steel."

And I still can`t remember  what the Russell Steel track was!

You got me with the Russell Steel track.

[Soul16]

27 minutes ago, Majy said:

It was started to try and understand why some DJ's wont play anything other than OV recordings. To me a DJ plays for the people who turn up for the music and not for themselves. The music does not know it is a boot copy and neither do the dancers on the dance floor.

Just out of interest, what is your position on audio quality of bootlegs?

Do you have any personal criteria in that regard, or will any old distorted crap do?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Soul16 said:

Just out of interest, what is your position on audio quality of bootlegs?

Do you have any personal criteria in that regard, or will any old distorted crap do?

Some are good, especially the ones I bought many years ago and some were a total waste of money. I also have several OV ones that dont sound to great either. (Land of a thousand dances - Wilson Pickett) is horrid but I do still have that copy.

[Steve S 60]

3 hours ago, Majy said:

Just wondering if you DJ for yourself or for the people who come to dance at gigs?

I have been to so many gigs in my time that have an empty dance floor because the DJ in his spot plays OVO that nobody else (or very few people) want to dance too.

I DJ for myself.  Nobody else at home wants to listen to my music.  Oh, and I fill the floor.  There's not much room in my shed.

[BrianB]

28 minutes ago, Majy said:

Some are good, especially the ones I bought many years ago and some were a total waste of money. I also have several OV ones that dont sound to great either. (Land of a thousand dances - Wilson Pickett) is horrid but I do still have that copy.

I see that you list one of your hobbies as fishing. Quite apt. 

[Dave Abbott]

For fucks sake - what a wind up LOL

[Soul16]

For sure, he's having a bit of pre Christmas fun methinks.

[Len]

1 hour ago, Majy said:

So why do some DJ's not care enough about the people that come to dance and are happy to see 3 or 4 people on the dance floor within a room of 100 or more people sat about for an hour because thay just want to play OV that they have brought with them? I have never understood that and never will.

They do care about the people that come to dance / Yes, they are happy to see 3 or 4 people dancing, whist others are enjoying listening to the DJs' choices / It has nothing to do with Original vinyl, they are just tunes the DJ wants to share with others (I wish some would remind themselves of that point) Doing so is a very difficult job nowadays because that 'hunger' for hearing tunes one doesn't know is diminishing (on the whole) A crying shame to me.

To anyone out there trying to share the enjoyment they personally get from their records - STICK WITH IT! Some of us do still appreciate it. This creativity is what keeps it going! 

All the best,

Len 

[Len]

3 hours ago, Peter99 said:

So you're saying that certain dj's choose to play unpopular records. Not sure why any dj would build a collection of records that punters didn't like. 

See you in 'The Kenwood Suite' at New Century Soul on Boxing day - It'll all be explained! 

HAPPY CHRISTMAS FOLKZ 

Len 

[Len]

30 minutes ago, Dave Abbott said:

For fucks sake - what a wind up LOL

This is a very serious matter 

Len 

[Fred Benson]

Well said Steve Lane! 

 

[Dazdakin]

Never ever played a "boot" ever.  Don't own a boot.

The list of tunes given earlier in thread contains plenty of very near 4 fig value 45's in TODAYS market place.

I really can't be bothered to explain why it's just plain wrong to play anything other than original vinyl as there is a few important reasons and it would just go on and on.

And let's make this clear, its also not right to play " legit British reissues " which were made on the back of the popularity of the soul scene generally in the 70's.

There is ONE JUST ONE exception to the rule.....

Betty boo say it isn't so 70's grapevine,  that's it.... No others!!

Again can't be arsed to explain why, if you need to ask or you just don't get it then it's just pointless.

 

Dazz

[Supercorsa]

Why hasn't this thread been closed?

Another repetitive topic about boots & originals, ffs!

Hasn't this topic been flogged to death yet?

No wonder I don't visit this site as much as I used to.

[Ian Stacey]

 I'm with MR DAKIN  on this one

[TOAD]

how does the dj know what records people will dance too ? I've played late Wigan records that were floor fillers to an empty floor! That is why popular DJs play the same old same..luckily there are venues that still have the same ethos as what got me into the scene! Id say a big percentage of people these days are not interested in anything different

[Mike]

44 minutes ago, Supercorsa said:

Why hasn't this thread been closed?

Another repetitive topic about boots & originals, ffs!

Hasn't this topic been flogged to death yet?

No wonder I don't visit this site as much as I used to.

Ian

as requested many times

if you have any q's on moderation then post up in the support/feedback forum

posting such on the actual topic just takes things down different roads

post up in support and will answer/discuss

thanks

mike

[Guest]

3 hours ago, BrianB said:

I see that you list one of your hobbies as fishing. Quite apt. 

Not a fishing post at all, Just was genuinely interested in why some DJ's turn up to what is an essentially dance motivated gig only to play music that the majority of people there don't dance to and to carry on playing it for 90% of their spot.

[Guest]

It's funny how this thread has turned into a collectors of rare records thread and not what the topic was about in the first place! Maybe this is the reason so many threads on boots etc because nobody wants to actually explain why they turn up to gigs to play to what the masses want and only play what they want.

If you want to listen to your OV then nobody is stopping you, you can do that in the privacy of your own home any time you want but if you turn up to gigs where people have come to dance to the tunes they love and want to hear who are you to tell them that they shouldn't listen to it because it's overplayed etc and force what you consider to be better music down the throats of people who do not want to hear it.

Soul Police are worse now than they ever were in the past.

We can't all own rare records or they wouldn't be rare FACT!

How many of you own "Frank Wilson - Do I Love You" ? I think there are 5 copies of this on OV so unless you go to a gig where the owner of said record is playing it shouldn't be played out? Also there are those who think that the record is pop music and not Soul at all and shouldn't be played at any Northern Soul gig OV or not. Thousands of people love that record and love to dance to it but the above mentioned couldn't care less that people want to hear it and dance to it.

So to get back to the point of this thread. Do you as a DJ play records for the people who turn up to dance and hear the music they love or do you turn up to play the records you think people should hear and to continue to play those records even when the dance floor is telling you they do not want to hear them so essentially playing for your self!

I cannot wait to hear from anyone who is willing to explain this to me and not bring it back to a record collectors view of the Northern Soul scene.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Guest

[Davenpete]

A few thoughts from my point of view:

1. On the rare occasion I get out nowadays I want to hear a spot that is imaginative, enjoyable, well constructed and danceable (even though I hardly ever dance nowadays)
2. In practice that tends to mean the spot is from people who will be playing from original vinyl, but that's because of the DJs I happen to rate

3. That could be Club Sounds, RnB (though of the rhythm n soul variety NOT jump blues!), pure northern, crossover, 70s, 80s or even modern modern - or better still a night that blends all of these

4. I would rather hear a really good £5 forgotten oldie or unknown sound that I really rate than fucking Get It Babe - even if it's on red issue - or any other sound that (whether or not it's a great record) I'm pig sick of - never mind Do I love you which is just not a very good record (and which I know FW himself was embarrassed by because he thought it was garbage)

5. Equally if it's a shite record it could be worth £millions - it's still shite

6. I have no interest in DJs doing a 'listen to my wallet' spot - only in spots I rate - cheque book collectors/DJ's are very, very rarely any good

7. If I hear 6 records in a night that are a] good and b] I don't know/hardly know at all I'm chuffed to fuck

8. I have no doubt whatsoever that almost every single DJ of any standing has at some point played a bootleg - though that may well have been accidentally

9. Afew years ago people were playing acetates all over the place that were blindly accepted (often even in the most high brow venues), even though most people with any knowledge were well aware they were simply cuts (NOT studio acetates) from CDs of stuff that was available on original vinyl - so they effectively became a way of DJs being 'allowed' to play bootlegs 

Dx

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, DaveNPete said:

A few thoughts from my point of view:

1. On the rare occasion I get out nowadays I want to hear a spot that is imaginative, enjoyable, well constructed and danceable (even though I hardly ever dance nowadays)
2. In practice that tends to mean the spot is from people who will be playing from original vinyl, but that's because of the DJs I happen to rate

3. That could be Club Sounds, RnB (though of the rhythm n soul variety NOT jump blues!), pure northern, crossover, 70s, 80s or even modern modern - or better still a night that blends all of these

4. I would rather hear a really good £5 forgotten oldie or unknown sound that I really rate than fucking Get It Babe - even if it's on red issue - or any other sound that (whether or not it's a great record) I'm pig sick of - never mind Do I love you which is just not a very good record (and which I know FW himself was embarrassed by because he thought it was garbage)

5. Equally if it's a shite record it could be worth £millions - it's still shite

6. I have no interest in DJs doing a 'listen to my wallet' spot - only in spots I rate - cheque book collectors/DJ's are very, very rarely any good

7. If I hear 6 records in a night that are a] good and b] I don't know/hardly know at all I'm chuffed to fuck

8. I have no doubt whatsoever that almost every single DJ of any standing has at some point played a bootleg - though that may well have been accidentally

9. Afew years ago people were playing acetates all over the place that were blindly accepted (often even in the most high brow venues), even though most people with any knowledge were well aware they were simply cuts (NOT studio acetates) from CDs of stuff that was available on original vinyl - so they effectively became a way of DJs being 'allowed' to play bootlegs 

Dx

Points 7 is exactly how I think :-)

I have no problem with any DJ slipping a few new/unheard records in to their set.

I would never have heard "peggy woods - love is gonna get you" if it had not been played at Stafford in the mid 80's and what a Choooooooooooon it is too. But is it a boot or an OV? I guess to collectors it's probably an OV but to me it was a boot to start with!

Point 6 is the one i have real problems with and that was the point of starting the thread. I was hoping that someone would explain why they do that? For what reason do they think they are doing the right thing and everyone else is wrong?

[Pga1]

Hiya, without bootlegs we'd have nothing to talk about (moan)  I think it's funny when folks say I've never played em, not many people can truthfully say that.  Genuine re issues are fine by me and unreleased stuff.  There's people out there getting tracks out to be heard.  They should and are supported by many of us. If a bloke/ woman turned up to dj with say a box of Kent releases what's wrong with that ? First track played to get people in the mood 'Maxine  brown torture' Eddie bishop call me, surely a uk original.  Is a dj accepted if he played our love is in the pocket on stateside demo. At our do today dazz played hy- tones don't even know my name on bell, love it and rare but if he played on southern it would  still be great.  Now counterfeits that are set to deceive WRONG !!!!  Anyway enough waffle I'm off to play strings a go go on soul galore of course followed by I'm gonna find me somebody on out of the past. Would have been boring without them.  Why I remember, stood in tescos waiting at the checkout, bloke in front had a with it jacket on but the logo said 'south face' priceless. Cheers

[Dave Rimmer]

The simple answer to your question is there are a lot of good DJs out there who play off original vinyl, and fill dancefloors, and try and introduce new records (Because let's face it, if DJs didn't try and introduce new records we would still be listening to the same 23 records that were played in the mythical first ever Northern Soul spot)

The point you're asking about is quite simple. A DJ who plays to an empty floor, and continues to play to an empty floor just isn't a very good DJ. (Unless of course it's the sort of venue where the DJ is expected to play new and unknown things and not expected to fill the dancefloor (They do exist))

I always play off original vinyl, and always remember that it IS a scene where people come to dance. But I always like to try 'new' records out in my set. Sometimes they work, other times they bomb completely. That doesn't mean it's a bad record, just that other people don't share my enthusiasm for it. But if I clear the floor with a record, it's pretty much a certainty that I'll get it full again simply by playing a record I know people will dance to. 

The other thing that I think people forget is I've been DJing for a long time now, and there are some records that I am simply bored to death of hearing, and playing. I usually sell them when I reach the point of boredom, so that I can't play them again, Again, that doesn't make them a bad record, just one I don't want to hear again for a long time (And I can't understand why people want to dance to the same records for years and years either. Don't you get bored ?) 

[Twoshoes]

6 hours ago, Majy said:

, Just was genuinely interested in why some DJ's turn up to what is an essentially dance motivated gig only to play music that the majority of people there don't dance to and to carry on playing it for 90% of their spot.

Maybe it's because the promoter has seen them at another venue, enjoyed what they played and  asked them to dj and given them the freedom to play their normal sets rather than dictating what has to be played hoping that the punters will embrace what is offered.

[Dazdakin]

Well said Mr. Rimmer

I ALWAYS play to the floor, its not what I want to hear that matters, or me playing Billy big bollocks, look what I just brought, dance floor is king as far as I am concerned after all it is supposed to be primarily a dance scene.

I even have records in my play box I actually don't like and play em at times if it would suit the flow of any given set 

Dazz