Another bootlegging chancer

[Illusive]

Whilst ever there are mugs (or very naive buyers)  out there prepared to pay for bootlegs, the twats that sell them openly are gonna prosper.

This guy states  that his discs are "Reissues"  and supports his claim for some degree of legitimacy by stating: 

"Note to EBAY this is a legal Used Reissue Copy that relevant Copyright duty has been paid at its original purchase".

 

You couldn't make this shit up and his patter seems to be working with some of the bids being placed.

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/dreamweaver66/m.html?item=162315437658&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Edited December 15, 2016 by illusive
Typo

[Illusive]

In light of his daft spiel I thought it'd be nice to ask him a question, and thought how festive it would be if everyone else followed suit 

 

Your descriptions on each disc that you have for sale make for interesting reading. 
Complete fantasy of course and totally without merit or legal justification. 
They're  bootlegs which violate copyright legislation and your daft statement to eBay about them being legitimate second issues for which copyright duty has been paid is nonsense, but I've no need to tell you that as you already know it. If you wanna Sell bootlegs then at least do it without the pretence to legitimacy and making such bloody ludicrous statements. 
Please feel free to post my comment on your sales.
Thanks and Merry Xmas 

[Illusive]

And I've reported him too for what it's worth for the Tobi Legend 45, and maybe if lots of others did the same it might register with eBay that people are becoming pissed off with these no-mark tossers.

[Soap]

• my guess judging by this guys location is that he has had a change of name on ebay. the same titles of these legitimate second issue's  appeared regularly by someone with a different name but from the same area. while people continue to buy them,they will continue to be sold no matter how many name changes

Edited December 15, 2016 by soap

[Guest]

Caveat Emptor

[Ted Massey]

wasting your time Ebay dont give a fuck 

[Illusive]

Just had a response from him, feckin comedian too

Please supply your name and address so that we can...

New message from: dreamweaver66 (224)   Please supply your name and address so that we can formally and legally respond Thank you PS a "bootleg" technically is a unauthorised live recording and our listings are not live recordings.   Reply

YOU: Your descriptions on each disc that you have for sale make for interesting reading.  Complete fantasy of course and totally without merit or legal justification.  They're bootlegs which violate copyright legislation and your daft statement to eBay about them being legitimate second issues for which copyright duty has been paid is nonsense, but I've no need to tell you that as you already know it. If you wanna Sell bootlegs then at least do it without the pretence to legitimacy and making such bloody ludicrous statements.  Please feel free to post my comment on your sales. Thanks and Merry Xmas

Northern Soul .. Tobi Legend ..Time will Pass you By c/w Heartbreaker .. Mala DJ   Current bid: £91.66 Auction ends 15 Dec, 2016 13:53 GMT Bids: 18 Postage: £2.50 Place bid

Only purchases on eBay are covered by the eBay purchase protection programmes. Asking your trading partner to complete a transaction outside of eBay is not allowed.

Email reference ID: [#a01-byqfefntam#]_[#af65b0bcccf74da59e34d0a469259e9f#] We don't check this mailbox, so please don't reply to this message. If you have a question, go to Help & Contact. eBay sent this message to Gavin Thompson (illusiveoldsoul). Learn more about account protection. eBay is committed to your privacy. Learn more about our privacy policy and user agreement. This email was sent by eBay Europe S.à r.l., which may use affiliates to provide eBay services. If you are a non-EU resident, please refer to the user agreement for the contact data of your contracting party.  ©2016 eBay Inc., eBay Europe S.à r.l. 22-24 Boulevard Royal, L-2449, Luxembourg

[Mal C]

Yep the days of getting much at all cheap on ebay have long gone. That with postage fees being what the are.   Stuff does come up cheap if it's lesser known, but you do have to keep a very close watch, generally not worth the effort....   

as for the bootleggers, well done mate applaude your effort but it won't make any difference...:-((

 

 

[Guest Soulskate70]

The sad thing is that while there is still a market these guy will continue to sell no matter what anyone says.... These must be getting sold to "wannabee' cost cutter DJ's as I can't understand why anyone else would want them in their collection when you could just listen to the track on a CD.... I would love an original copy of the Yum Yums etc, but until the day I win the lottery or have the money to buy expensive items like this I will go without... I have been tempted at times as I love the whole experience of playing the vinyl (I'm from the CD generation...), however I like the fact my collection is 100% original and want to keep it that way..... 

[Guest James Hill]

Think d j with Boots has no credibility which in turn has to reflect on the venue and promoter

I know of many of these so called soul clubs turning up which I DJ at you hear tunes yo had in mind but when you look it a Boot fecks me right off  but the worst is when there is yep a CD deck there too

[kevinsoulman]

11 hours ago, illusive said:

And I've reported him too for what it's worth for the Tobi Legend 45, and maybe if lots of others did the same it might register with eBay that people are becoming pissed off with these no-mark tossers.

just sent him both barrels for what it's worth

kev

 

[SOULMAN62]

Good luck to him, if your stupid enough to pay the money, then more fool them

[Modernsoulsucks]

Just to be precise these appear to be old boots with stuck-on copies of original labels ?

Ad refers to second hand reissues.

He's not pressing up the actual vinyl.

 

[Jayboy]

another problem is when there are in circulation it will be easier to pass them off as original 

 

 

Stin

[ajb]

records like these have been in circulation for forty plus years, why is it any different now.

i've got loads i bought when i was still do'n my paper round, and i know i'm not the only one.

will i be sent to hell if i ever to decide to sell 'em, or worst still my kids might get wrongly accused because "were always right, and your lieing"

it really gets me when folk moan about the artist getting the royalties but only buy old records from dealers, (who i might add probably make more than the artist made in some cases. )

i don't know this guy, who's only crime might may well be naivety,  but the fact that he states their copies/reissues should be enough for buyers to make a decision, lets be right its their money.

i'm sure i'll upset enough folk  for today, not that it meant by the way . but some things aren't as black and white as we'd like to think they are.

rant over

[Bo Diddley]

1 hour ago, modernsoulsucks said:

Just to be precise these appear to be old boots with stuck-on copies of original labels ?

Ad refers to second hand reissues.

He's not pressing up the actual vinyl.

 

Hi Rod,

They all have the same description of the vinyl which is "Near Mint". None of them seem to have been "well loved" by previous owners.

Incidentally, can someone mention to the seller that you spell it "Excellent". 

Personally, I'm past caring about it now. I wouldn't buy "pretend/repo" furniture and I wouldn't buy "pretend/repo" records. I did get wound up at one time, particularly when one such seller listed a record with a copied label of one I had bought about 6-12 months earlier. It had the same WOL !!

(Edit - I've just checked and it's the same seller who sold the record with a copy label of one of my records. He's changed names)

Edited December 15, 2016 by bo diddley

[Benji]

56 minutes ago, modernsoulsucks said:

Just to be precise these appear to be old boots with stuck-on copies of original labels ?

Ad refers to second hand reissues.

He's not pressing up the actual vinyl.

 

I''m not sure it's 2nd. I only looked up one item, Jesse Johnson on Old Town. This was never pressed/reissued before, was it?

[Modernsoulsucks]

12 minutes ago, bo diddley said:

Hi Rod,

They all have the same description of the vinyl which is "Near Mint". None of them seem to have been "well loved" by previous owners.

Incidentally, can someone mention to the seller that you spell it "Excellent". 

Personally, I'm past caring about it now. I wouldn't buy "pretend/repo" furniture and I wouldn't buy "pretend/repo" records. I did get wound up at one time, particularly when one such seller listed a record with a copied label of one I had bought about 6-12 months earlier. It had the same WOL !!

Having been forced to watch every episode of Columbo and some more than once, I did notice the M- grading.

Not near mint - Columbo would consider that sloppy evidence gathering and ruin his chances of convicting Patrick McGoohan. Of course why he didn't recognise McGoohan immediately as the murderer after his first appearance on the show just shows Columbo wasn't as smart as he's made out to be.

Back on track, I assumed he just bought old boots in nice condition. At least he has some standards.

Benji, I don't really keep up with boots but yes I wondered that too in relation to Kiki Dee. No doubt someone on here will know. It may be he's pressing up vinyl to use for his copied labels.

[Illusive]

28 minutes ago, ajb said:

records like these have been in circulation for forty plus years, why is it any different now.

i've got loads i bought when i was still do'n my paper round, and i know i'm not the only one.

will i be sent to hell if i ever to decide to sell 'em, or worst still my kids might get wrongly accused because "were always right, and your lieing"

it really gets me when folk moan about the artist getting the royalties but only buy old records from dealers, (who i might add probably make more than the artist made in some cases. )

i don't know this guy, who's only crime might may well be naivety,  but the fact that he states their copies/reissues should be enough for buyers to make a decision, lets be right its their money.

i'm sure i'll upset enough folk  for today, not that it meant by the way . but some things aren't as black and white as we'd like to think they are.

rant over

Pressings / bootlegs etc  are part of all of our history and we all did the same thing with our pocket money / wages in the 70's when the only way for most of us to get the big tunes of that period was on a pressing or uk reissue. We knew what we were buying and didn't care, because for the majority of the time we weren't being conned.

Sell away and make a tidy profit but at least do it in a way that doesn't offer the pretence of legitimacy. That's not the gripe here. this is an act of deception and he's making fraudulent claims.

Hell ? We're living in it already, but let's not bring religion or politics into this  other than to say hopefully Thatchers still burning brightly.

Thankfully nobody has brought the royalty issue into play, and it's unconnected here.

The seller is anything but naive. He knows exactly what he's doing and if the information I've been given is accurate then the seller is a man who's been involved in the scene for over 40 years as a DJ and promoter of some very big events !!!!

Before anybody asks me to name him I won't.  Unless I can ratify the facts. 

And you're bang on with your summing up. Things are never quite what they seem, they could be much worse. 

[Bo Diddley]

1 hour ago, modernsoulsucks said:

Having been forced to watch every episode of Columbo and some more than once, I did notice the M- grading.

Not near mint - Columbo would consider that sloppy evidence gathering and ruin his chances of convicting Patrick McGoohan. Of course why he didn't recognise McGoohan immediately as the murderer after his first appearance on the show just shows Columbo wasn't as smart as he's made out to be.

Back on track, I assumed he just bought old boots in nice condition. At least he has some standards.

Benji, I don't really keep up with boots but yes I wondered that too in relation to Kiki Dee. No doubt someone on here will know. It may be he's pressing up vinyl to use for his copied labels.

I love Columbo and particularly the Patrick McGoohan ones. I was less keen when he returned to the scene many years later and had become a caricature of the original. Hmmm, that sounds familiar. 

[Mr Smithy]

12 hours ago, soap said:

• my guess judging by this guys location is that he has had a change of name on ebay. the same titles of these legitimate second issue's  appeared regularly by someone with a different name but from the same area. while people continue to buy them,they will continue to be sold no matter how many name changes

This help



 

[Johnty]

13 hours ago, illusive said:

Just had a response from him, feckin comedian too

Please supply your name and address so that we can...

New message from: dreamweaver66 (224)   Please supply your name and address so that we can formally and legally respond Thank you PS a "bootleg" technically is a unauthorised live recording and our listings are not live recordings.   Reply

YOU: Your descriptions on each disc that you have for sale make for interesting reading.  Complete fantasy of course and totally without merit or legal justification.  They're bootlegs which violate copyright legislation and your daft statement to eBay about them being legitimate second issues for which copyright duty has been paid is nonsense, but I've no need to tell you that as you already know it. If you wanna Sell bootlegs then at least do it without the pretence to legitimacy and making such bloody ludicrous statements.  Please feel free to post my comment on your sales. Thanks and Merry Xmas

Northern Soul .. Tobi Legend ..Time will Pass you By c/w Heartbreaker .. Mala DJ   Current bid: £91.66 Auction ends 15 Dec, 2016 13:53 GMT Bids: 18 Postage: £2.50 Place bid

Only purchases on eBay are covered by the eBay purchase protection programmes. Asking your trading partner to complete a transaction outside of eBay is not allowed.

Email reference ID: [#a01-byqfefntam#]_[#af65b0bcccf74da59e34d0a469259e9f#] We don't check this mailbox, so please don't reply to this message. If you have a question, go to Help & Contact. eBay sent this message to Gavin Thompson (illusiveoldsoul). Learn more about account protection. eBay is committed to your privacy. Learn more about our privacy policy and user agreement. This email was sent by eBay Europe S.à r.l., which may use affiliates to provide eBay services. If you are a non-EU resident, please refer to the user agreement for the contact data of your contracting party.  ©2016 eBay Inc., eBay Europe S.à r.l. 22-24 Boulevard Royal, L-2449, Luxembourg

bootlegverb [ I or T ] uk /ˈbuːt.leɡ/ us /ˈbuːt.leɡ/ -gg-

› to illegally make, copy, or sell something

Thesaurus: synonyms and related words

[Illusive]

 

"Sen Alan" about says it all doesn't it?

Not much of an anagram and confirms what I've been told by two different people today already. So the rabbits out of the hat. 

Sad state of affairs really.

Maybe not on the scale of counterfeiting "45's just to share with friends and not for selling on" but none the less a poor show from a long standing member of the soul fraternity whose shot himself in the foot.

[Jkpnefc]

messaged him myself and received this

"Please be advised what you have written is Libelous matter
You have no proof to corroborate your rash statements
Either retract immediately and apologise or we will take this matter further 
What you have Libelous stated is Harrasment and will be passed onto the Police as a complaint of such "

Ha!

[Guest Spain pete]

All l want for Xmas is a Ben Sherman shirt.  A real one please no snide   ktf  love that saying. Ktf. Ktf. Ktf

[Illusive]

35 minutes ago, jkpnefc said:

messaged him myself and received this

"Please be advised what you have written is Libelous matter
You have no proof to corroborate your rash statements
Either retract immediately and apologise or we will take this matter further 
What you have Libelous stated is Harrasment and will be passed onto the Police as a complaint of such "

Ha!

Got the same response in not so many words.

Brass necked and sad. 

Puts items up for sale on a global web site supported by some very flowery descriptions and then acts the innocent and all of a sudden has adopted the Royal "we". 

He knows he's breaking the law selling counterfeit goods on eBay which is a blatant abuse of the site rules.

Hes not alone and he's simply profiteering whilst there's so many daft sods prepared to buy all manner of pressings at silly prices. 

Bizarrely I can see the attraction for an opportunist not connected to the scene in any way, to see this bootlegging game as a way of making some quick cash, which is what I suspected was the case when I set this topic rolling. 

How wrong was I !

 

[Petesi]

Whilst I can appreciate comments from the ovo collectors etc who want to keep the scene pure, be it for personal reasons such as protecting their well paid for collections or because they actually believe that ovo is the all and be all of northern soul and any club allowing copies or boots etc to be played should be banned burned and wiped from the planet, back in the early and mid seventies nobody other than a few top dj/collectors really knew or cared whether we bought an original or a copy.... it was all about the music.

I bought many a record at Wigan and the all dayers around the country and as it turns out some are original and some are just re-issues or second issues on another label but I ain`t gonna throw em away just because of that.

To be frank about it a great many if not most fans of this scene don't care if its original or not I/we only care that's its a great sound played from a record that brings back the memories from a great era and keeps the new guys and girls coming to the scene and, if it wasn't for the internet most like me would still be in the dark over the situation.

So I say to the clubs "just let the DJ`s play the records and the dancers dance " We ain`t gonna be label spotting as we are usually to busy dancing and enjoying it to care if its on ...Awake 501/2 ,Ashford,  Grapevine or a complete blank white label! If it plays well that's all that matters AND  at least it ain`t  Jimmy Sha Rays pathetic effort 

 

Merry Xmas

 

[Peter99]

3 minutes ago, PeteSi said:

Whilst I can appreciate comments from the ovo collectors etc who want to keep the scene pure, be it for personal reasons such as protecting their well paid for collections or because they actually believe that ovo is the all and be all of northern soul and any club allowing copies or boots etc to be played should be banned burned and wiped from the planet, back in the early and mid seventies nobody other than a few top dj/collectors really knew or cared whether we bought an original or a copy.... it was all about the music.

I bought many a record at Wigan and the all dayers around the country and as it turns out some are original and some are just re-issues or second issues on another label but I ain`t gonna throw em away just because of that.

To be frank about it a great many if not most fans of this scene don't care if its original or not I/we only care that's its a great sound played from a record that brings back the memories from a great era and keeps the new guys and girls coming to the scene and, if it wasn't for the internet most like me would still be in the dark over the situation.

So I say to the clubs "just let the DJ`s play the records and the dancers dance " We ain`t gonna be label spotting as we are usually to busy dancing and enjoying it to care if its on ...Awake 501/2 ,Ashford,  Grapevine or a complete blank white label! If it plays well that's all that matters AND  at least it ain`t  Jimmy Sha Rays pathetic effort 

 

Merry Xmas

 

Oh dear. 

[Petesi]

13 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

Oh dear. 

At least I ain`t condoning the playing of CD`s LoL

 

But if all records disappeared would there still be a Scene  Oh gosh I think there would and it would be an all cd/mp3 affair ...God help us.

 

Enough devilment for one day

 

Please Lord let the collectors collect and the DJ`s just concentrate on playing the records ..  Amen

Edited December 17, 2016 by PeteSi

[Soul16]

Sometimes I wonder if the Northern Soul scene has been hijacked by internet trolls trying to wind us 'purists' up!

The way things are going, I reckon it might be best to sell my collection of decent originals and find another interest in my old age. FFS

 

 

 

[Peter99]

5 hours ago, Soul16 said:

Sometimes I wonder if the Northern Soul scene has been hijacked by internet trolls trying to wind us 'purists' up!

The way things are going, I reckon it might be best to sell my collection of decent originals and find another interest in my old age. FFS

 

 

 

Give me your records and I'll teach you to knit. 

[Jkpnefc]

His latest reply

" Have you ever bought anything from us?
Not here to tell you anything but note you confess to know all and everything
You have made certain accusations of Libelous content in your approach to us
Entirely at your discretion to apologise, your decision, but now we are not interested
Your conduct is clearly of a Harrasment nature "

 

 

[Cunnie]

The ebay seller is also a member on here.
Here is his profile.
https://www.soul-source.co.uk/profile/28368-cliftonhall1/

[Andybellwood]

29 minutes ago, Cunnie said:

The ebay seller is also a member on here.
Here is his profile.
https://www.soul-source.co.uk/profile/28368-cliftonhall1/

Wonder if the events 'he' is promoting & djing at are ovo ? 

[Peter99]

It's not as if this person isn't well known - they've been involved for years. I don't get his attempt to sound as if he doesn't know what he's doing. For example his silly definition of a counterfeit. 

It's theft at the end of the day. 

[Cunnie]

On 12/15/2016 at 08:29, illusive said:

Just had a response from him, feckin comedian too

Please supply your name and address so that we can...

New message from: dreamweaver66 (224)   Please supply your name and address so that we can formally and legally respond Thank you PS a "bootleg" technically is a unauthorised live recording and our listings are not live recordings.   Reply

YOU: Your descriptions on each disc that you have for sale make for interesting reading.  Complete fantasy of course and totally without merit or legal justification.  They're bootlegs which violate copyright legislation and your daft statement to eBay about them being legitimate second issues for which copyright duty has been paid is nonsense, but I've no need to tell you that as you already know it. If you wanna Sell bootlegs then at least do it without the pretence to legitimacy and making such bloody ludicrous statements.  Please feel free to post my comment on your sales. Thanks and Merry Xmas

Northern Soul .. Tobi Legend ..Time will Pass you By c/w Heartbreaker .. Mala DJ   Current bid: £91.66 Auction ends 15 Dec, 2016 13:53 GMT Bids: 18 Postage: £2.50 Place bid

Only purchases on eBay are covered by the eBay purchase protection programmes. Asking your trading partner to complete a transaction outside of eBay is not allowed.

Email reference ID: [#a01-byqfefntam#]_[#af65b0bcccf74da59e34d0a469259e9f#] We don't check this mailbox, so please don't reply to this message. If you have a question, go to Help & Contact. eBay sent this message to Gavin Thompson (illusiveoldsoul). Learn more about account protection. eBay is committed to your privacy. Learn more about our privacy policy and user agreement. This email was sent by eBay Europe S.à r.l., which may use affiliates to provide eBay services. If you are a non-EU resident, please refer to the user agreement for the contact data of your contracting party.  ©2016 eBay Inc., eBay Europe S.à r.l. 22-24 Boulevard Royal, L-2449, Luxembourg

The Tobi Legend that appears on the ebay sale above is the exact same copy that appears on his event posting.
Just look at the first letter 'a' in the word Mala & the slightly offset label.

 

[Chalky]

Sadly, these scumbags probably do more business when there sales are highlighted.  Ebay refuse to do anything about them as they make so much money from them, unless confronted by the lawyers of the copyright owner. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by chalky

[Illusive]

23 minutes ago, Cunnie said:

The Tobi Legend that appears on the ebay sale above is the exact same copy that appears on his event posting.
Just look at the first letter 'a' in the word Mala & the slightly offset label.

 

Great spot. 

 

[Cunnie]

23 hours ago, chalky said:

Sadly, these scumbags probably do more business when there sales are highlighted.  Ebay refuse to do anything about them as they make so much money from them, unless confronted by the lawyers of the copyright owner. 

Normally I'd agree with you Chalky about highlighting sales but it's a bit different in this case.
All I'm going to say is I wouldn't want this seller knowing my address.