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Lee David ... Temptation Is Calling ... Blue Eyed ?

Sunnysoul

By Sunnysoul
in All About the SOUL

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The Yank
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Steve G
Steve G

Really? Not wishing to run JM down but I think he'll be the first to tell you his speciality is actually records. Being a successful trader means that you will have a lot of knowledge about soul music

Colouredman
Colouredman

Just for info: it isn't 'rubbish' about the song originally being cut for Marvin Gaye!! I had that info from Jimmie Briggs himself. If there's accurate info out there from a more credible source than

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Shsdave Veteran

Shsdave

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it said the same when advertising Aubrey Twins Poor Boy ............ despite there being a picture sleeve of two young black guys.

Don't forget he doesn't write all of the sales blurb but if you didn't know for sure you wouldn't mention it would you ?

& I have no idea re Lee David never having owned a copy & only hearing it when out which isn't always the best of time to form opinions :wicked:

 

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Greety Long Time

Greety

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I've never heard it but I believe he had another release on Janus (hope I'm right). And I remember Rod Dearlove reviewing it in "Voices".

Rod never mentioned it sounding white. As I remember he said "forget his out of character stomper on Columbia". And then went on to call it fine Southern Soul. Gives our boy Lee abit more cred, doesn't it?

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Sunnysoul Veteran

Sunnysoul

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Peter,  that's Lee Conway  , an Aussie country singer,  in the opening pic of the youtube video and not only that the music in that Gypsy Woman  video , is an acoustic guitar instrumental ... no vocal.  

And the vocalist on the Steely Dan Dirty Work cover sounds nothing at all like the  vocalist  on the Lee David Columbia release ... 

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Peter99 Veteran

Peter99

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10 hours ago, sunnysoul said:

Peter,  that's Lee Conway  , an Aussie country singer,  in the opening pic of the youtube video and not only that the music in that Gypsy Woman  video , is an acoustic guitar instrumental ... no vocal.  

And the vocalist on the Steely Dan Dirty Work cover sounds nothing at all like the  vocalist  on the Lee David Columbia release ... 

My mistake. I think he's definitely white though. 

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Colouredman Long Time

Colouredman

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Just for info: it isn't 'rubbish' about the song originally being cut for Marvin Gaye!! I had that info from Jimmie Briggs himself. If there's accurate info out there from a more credible source than the guy who arranged and wrote it, then great, shout up, let's hear it. Other than that being the case, maybe not a great idea for 'some'to pour scorn on it all. The reference mentioned came from the back of a fanzine I produced about 20 years ago. The info I had from Jimmie Briggs was that he was black.

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Tlscapital Veteran

Tlscapital

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Lee David 'temptation' always sounded white to me. And it sounds as poppy as it is soul music IMHO. The Janus up there is only soft pop-country stuff, never southern soul ! Not to worry though, as there are many black singers out there I don't bother to listen to and some white "soul" singers I dig at times... It's good information to know at times as it is interesting to know stories behind artists, songs and records.

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3 hours ago, tlscapital said:

Lee David 'temptation' always sounded white to me. And it sounds as poppy as it is soul music IMHO. The Janus up there is only soft pop-country stuff, never southern soul ! Not to worry though, as there are many black singers out there I don't bother to listen to and some white "soul" singers I dig at times... It's good information to know at times as it is interesting to know stories behind artists, songs and records.

How does Mr Manship know?  There are a lot's of Lee Davids.

And David Lee who produced Ann Sexton "You've Been Gone Too Long"!

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3 hours ago, tlscapital said:

Lee David 'temptation' always sounded white to me. And it sounds as poppy as it is soul music IMHO.

They said that about the MVP's. It turned out they where a mixture of the Combinations on Kimtone and Emory and the Dynamics on Peachtree!!!!

You couldn't get a better pedigree than that!!

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Tlscapital Veteran

Tlscapital

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14 hours ago, solidsoul said:

They said that about the MVP's. It turned out they where a mixture of the Combinations on Kimtone and Emory and the Dynamics on Peachtree!!!!

You couldn't get a better pedigree than that!!

Right on ! I never cared for either the MVPS or even Ann Sexton 'you've been gone too long' honestly. I still find to this day she has better materials. It's nothing to do with pedigree. Pedigree credits can add to something you like or make you think about it another way, but it can't do it all ! Listening to music with the ears tastebuds still comes first !

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Winsford Soul Veteran

Winsford Soul

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4 minutes ago, Zed1 said:

Another Fab 'Northern'  track derided by the chin molesters as White Pop Crap........

Good job some of us like pop music. :D

 

Gaz. You beat me to it mate. The soul police have spoken. They want to rewrite the history of our lives. Who cares if Bobby Paris is white or Lee David or Dusty. 

Steve

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Tlscapital Veteran

Tlscapital

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I do care and I really appreciate to see the artists pictures and their color on the pictures shows, most of the time that is. They kinda tell a story and I love that. By the way it's only my opinions given on the original question and I meant no offense to anybody's lifestyles, beliefs or personal and even universal conceptions, taboos or sacrements.

Not too long ago, I was thrilled as shocked to discover (through SS) the Promises 'living in the footsteps of another girl' video-clip to revive it for me more than ever. The same goes with a picture of the Martells featuring Clifford Russel on A-LA-CARTE I was once given !!! Works beautifully when these beliefs drop with facts. Kickin' life like an old tin can...

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Zed1 Long Time

Zed1

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2 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

Gaz. You beat me to it mate. The soul police have spoken. They want to rewrite the history of our lives. Who cares if Bobby Paris is white or Lee David or Dusty. 

Steve

As you previously referred to Ste, It was all so much better when we knew fook all!.

Remember on my 2nd or 3rd trip to Wigan 'It really hurts me Girl' was playing and the lad stood next to me said "Is this Crossover?". My serious reply was  "Not Sure - I thought it was the Carstairs?". :lol:

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Shsdave Veteran

Shsdave

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8 hours ago, Steve Foran said:

Personally if John Manship says something he is 99.9% of times correct.

Not looking for a fight I just think he is about the most knowledgeable Soul Man I know.

Just my view 

As I mentioned earlier Aubrey Twins ? Ok one example but he must have come across the picture sleeves in all his years of digging

Just saying :shhh:

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Steve G Veteran

Steve G

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17 hours ago, Steve Foran said:

Personally if John Manship says something he is 99.9% of times correct.

Not looking for a fight I just think he is about the most knowledgeable Soul Man I know.

Just my view 

Really? Not wishing to run JM down but I think he'll be the first to tell you his speciality is actually records. Being a successful trader means that you will have a lot of knowledge about soul music, but to say he is the most knowledgeable soul man you know implies you might just need to get out a bit more Steve :-)  

We've had this before. "Chuck Cocheram is white" from another very knowledgeable "soul man," which was hilarious, since he was a one time member of The Drifters (Chuck Cocherham not the knowledgeable soul man). I have seen no evidence to suggest what colour Lee David is and absent any photos to the contrary I would tend to rely on the explanation from coloredman, who knows his stuff. 

Those in doubt that actually have a copy of Temptation, rather than the internet chattering classes :-) (who'll no doubt be back on line to complain about the car crash when it sells for £1,347 or something), flip it over and ask again "Is this some honky dude?"

Anyway that's not really the point. Temptation sounds and feels right etc. which is why it got played all those years ago. Contrast that to some of the obvious garage poor man's Beatles soundalikes that are about today. There is no doubt they ain't soul, weren't made for the soul market etc. Far from it. I am looking forward to seeing a picture of Lee David - someone must have one. Until then his ethnicity remains in tact. 

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Steve G Veteran

Steve G

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Anyway, John has been in touch......he didn't say Lee David was white in his review. So a storm in a tea cup of a thread about a record that is a piece of Gary Sherman brilliance.....ooh now Gary Sherman WAS white! Anyone fancy knocking his credentials?   

Here is the review""Not many things erck me within the joyous hobby of collecting Northern Soul 45s. But when puffed up self righteous collectors, label Northern Soul records as "Pop" base solely on the colour of their skin, previous or future recordings, it does kinda piss me off. For me and most other collectors not "blinkered" by the artist's name. Paul Anka's - I Can't Help Loving You - epitomises the Northern Soul sound, as does Charlie Rich's - Love Is After Me - a giant of The Memphis Sound, labeled "pop" because he had a pop hit in the 70s.. Let's thank the vinyl-Gods Lee David didn't have a "Pop-hit"... but if you delve passed the surface, you will see a common-denominators with all these stand out 60's Northern Soul dance tune. With Paul Anka & Lee David the great "Garry Sherman" is at the helm. Again proving it's not so much the singer but more a case of the guys in charge, who guide the artist to the sound they are seeking.. Jimmy Briggs sure guided Mr. David into the right direction on this NS Anthem, repeating his direction on the flipside too, huge potential for a surprise drop for the open-minded crowd. This NS Soul Classic listing, is a mere whisker off a Manship Mint!

 

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Blackpoolsoul Veteran

Blackpoolsoul

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On 07/12/2016 at 17:10, Tlscapital said:

I do care and I really appreciate to see the artists pictures and their color on the pictures shows, most of the time that is. They kinda tell a story and I love that. By the way it's only my opinions given on the original question and I meant no offense to anybody's lifestyles, beliefs or personal and even universal conceptions, taboos or sacrements.

Not too long ago, I was thrilled as shocked to discover (through SS) the Promises 'living in the footsteps of another girl' video-clip to revive it for me more than ever. The same goes with a picture of the Martells featuring Clifford Russel on A-LA-CARTE I was once given !!! Works beautifully when these beliefs drop with facts. Kickin' life like an old tin can...

I know you care and love this stuff, like I do

This quote from 45cat might help you in your search for Lee David

"There is a photo of Lee David in one of the trade publications when he signed with Janus. He played at Palisades Park (in NJ) the weekend of July 1-2 1967 along with the Drifters, the Age of Reason,
Jean Wells, Linda Jones, George Carrow, the Shandells, and the Petals (plus on July 1, The Four Tops), according to Record World July 1 1967 page 27."

Some stuff here from 2003  

https://soulfuldetroit.com/archives/3838/3138.html?1053020980

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Robbk Veteran

Robbk

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On 06/12/2016 at 07:11, Tlscapital said:

Lee David 'temptation' always sounded white to me. And it sounds as poppy as it is soul music IMHO. The Janus up there is only soft pop-country stuff, never southern soul ! Not to worry though, as there are many black singers out there I don't bother to listen to and some white "soul" singers I dig at times... It's good information to know at times as it is interesting to know stories behind artists, songs and records.

I've never seen a picture of Lee David, and there's no way to tell from his voice.  I'm not a big fan of his singing because he's too "nasal" for my taste.  But, in my experience, many (if not most) good singers want to sing  in a variety of different styles (Pop, Soul, Gospel, Blues, Jazzy vocals), just as they might want to test their skills or limits singing in several different keys, or singing both falsetto and baritone.  Gary Sherman and Jimmy Briggs worked on many Pop-oriented productions, but also blended Soul with a Poppish accent.  Lee David's "Temptation's Callin'..." was certainly aimed at both the main-stream Poppish Soul and crossover market, while "Gypsy Woman seems to me to have been aimed mainly at the straight Soul market.  So Lee David was a "Soul Singer".  He could have gotten a great applause at The Apollo singing his version Of Gypsy Woman, whether or not he was classified as a "White Man" or a "Black Man".

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