Women were a NS minority question?

[Paul-s]

I am reading the existing academic writing about Northern Soul and came across this statement: 

"The most notable change is the role that women occupy. Once a minority of dancers, they now constitute a majority. Although one must be careful as the 1970s- published photographic records of dancers tend to focus on the acrobatic dancing performed by men, the distribution of the dancing crowd supports the claim that it was men who predominated in numbers, in occupancy of space, and in the spectacle of dance." (Wall, 2006)

Can I ask for responses to this please. In my memory bank, which admittedly may gets less reliable as I get older, there were loads of women dancers and I can't remember a big difference. The photos this statement about distribution relies on may have been taken at any point in a night and to particular tunes (some regarded many tunes back then as 'girly' or whatever and so the floor shift reflected that). Anyway, thoughts please, memories of the male/female balance on the NS dance floors in the 70's - 80's.  Its stunning that nearly all of the accounts I am reading remain Wigan-centric (as if the scene stopped then) and miss out Stafford, Parr, Tony's and other venues and the truly underground and evolving post Casino scene!

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

[Kegsy]

In my regularl all nighter days 71/75, I would say there were about 3 to 1 (75%/25%) lads v lasses attending nighters. Probably due to lasses not being able to get permission to stay out all night and/or not daring to cross their parents. Which is probably why the dance floors look so male dominated. I don't think it's anymore complicated than that.

Local nights (Sunday, midweek), were much more balanced in terms of gender.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Kegsy

[Guest johnny hart]

From my early ventures to the Manc clubs in 68 to70 ; Wheel ,Blue Note ,Top Twenty,etc totally male dominated.From primarily St Helens crowd ,then ,Prestonians all the dealing ,organisation record buying and dancing was totally male led,including the Villains! In the early seventies area selected hardened females gained access .Indicative of atypical broader male lead social culture dominant at the time(a time when decent ladies didn't drink pints or even went in Pub bars alone,!

[David Meikle]

The Twisted Wheel in 1970 was definitely dominated by males. 

I remember dancing in a circle of 10 at the deejay spot and there was only one girl in it. I would say record collecting was the key to the development of this male dominated scene. There was no chance of picking up girls at the Wheel we were purely going there to hear and dance to the wonderful records being played.

I remember going into Rowntrees Sound one evening and talking to a crowd of girls who said they were scared to visit the Wheel.

Does anyone remember the sisters who sat in an alcove in the Wheel dressed in black week after week? I can picture them to this day. Whatever happened to them after the Wheel closed?

[Julianb]

I met Mrs B at the Wheel. She and her mates  from Huddersfield were all dancers

[Paul-s]

OK, thanks for the replies so far. Some astute ones. Can we try to avoid straying off topic, reminiscing about particular people. I am really interested in mid - Casino, say 74 onwards (and not just the Casino, as we have many other venues, St Ives, Cleethorpe's, Peterborough, Sheffield etc),  and through the 80's Stafford, Tony's, Bradford and the other venues that grew the scene post Wigan.

cheers.

[Guest]

From my experience of the Casino and local events, I'd say there were probably more geezers than gals. Though I think this was probably a socially driven thing than anything to do with interest in the music. No geezers I knew "weren't allowed" to go, but many girls were forbidden. I wasn't allowed to go, but I'm a skilled sulker and expert nag bag and usually ended up on the train Wigan bound once a month for the oldies all nighter. But yes, more boys than girls or maybe it just seemed that way because I was looking at them more than the girls??!

[Gold Band]

I Just told my parents was stopping at a mates, Many a free train ride mainly male conductors who wouldn't go anywhere near the toilets if a softly spoken female voice answered for ticket call, they usually said they would come back later but never did must have been more gentlemanly in the 70's. But wasn't that the point that we were out numbered 3 to one, It made the nights all the more interesting!!! (On the dance floor)

P.s. will not be commenting any further as being a female of the species I have a great memory so I wouldn't want to spoil it or embarrass friends of my youth

Kirsty

[Sunnysoul]

10 hours ago, conchitta said:

From my early ventures to the Manc clubs in 68 to70 ; Wheel ,Blue Note ,Top Twenty,etc totally male dominated.From primarily St Helens crowd ,then ,Prestonians all the dealing ,organisation record buying and dancing was totally male led,including the Villains! In the early seventies area selected hardened females gained access .Indicative of atypical broader male lead social culture dominant at the time(a time when decent ladies didn't drink pints or even went in Pub bars alone,!

I'd love to meet some "selected hardened females" ...

Edited November 24, 2016 by sunnysoul

[Guest johnny hart]

Hi Sunny Soul, my terminology was indicative of  the 60 s generation, so different of today which may have erroniously displayed a lack of sensitivity totally out of kilter ,quite rightly , to 21st century feministic values,no way was iI trying to make humour not of a serious sociological question. Best Regards Johnny Hart.

[Frankie Crocker]

11 hours ago, paul-s said:

I am reading the existing academic writing about Northern Soul and came across this statement: 

"The most notable change is the role that women occupy. Once a minority of dancers, they now constitute a majority. Although one must be careful as the 1970s- published photographic records of dancers tend to focus on the acrobatic dancing performed by men, the distribution of the dancing crowd supports the claim that it was men who predominated in numbers, in occupancy of space, and in the spectacle of dance." (Wall, 2006)

Can I ask for responses to this please...

 

Initial response, what a load of pseudo-mumbo jumbo and why does some academic feel a social scene based on musical taste should be analysed? Who is Wall anyway?

Sure, more lads went to Wigan Casino than lasses, and maybe the dance floor reflected this, but there were obvious reasons for the difference. I doubt the assertion that lasses outnumber the lads dancefloor nowadays but of course there will be exceptions given the more localised nature of the scene.

My recollections of Wigan in the latter half of the 70's bring back memories of 13-16 year old school kids rather than 'men' doing much of the acrobatics, with media interest focusing on the 'spectacle'- in reality, most of the crowd stayed on their feet avoiding the limelight. Huddled around the main room, balcony and M's were hundreds of lasses from all points of the compass, having a good time, and now probably bewildered that somebody wants to write about their Saturday night out 40 years ago...

 

[Petesi]

Went to plenty of clubs 1972-79 including Wigan

Unless you were actually there then I suspect most  peoples view of the scene from that era comes from footage of the casino on filming nights around the mid 70`s and mostly concentrated on the more athletic male stuff though from my own memories there were plenty of girls dancing every time I went.  around a 60/40 mix male to female would be more accurate. Also depending on the record being played on some occasions if you looked around it would look like more girls on the dance floor.

 St Ives, and Newcatle under Lyme tiffs all dayers and the like had a similar mix around 60/40 so plenty of girls all over the scene back then.

Today the mix I guess would again be close to 60/40 males to female at most of the events I go to .

Edited November 25, 2016 by PeteSi

[Petesi]

7 hours ago, flamingemeralds said:

From my experience of the Casino and local events, I'd say there were probably more geezers than gals. Though I think this was probably a socially driven thing than anything to do with interest in the music. No geezers I knew "weren't allowed" to go, but many girls were forbidden. I wasn't allowed to go, but I'm a skilled sulker and expert nag bag and usually ended up on the train Wigan bound once a month for the oldies all nighter. But yes, more boys than girls or maybe it just seemed that way because I was looking at them more than the girls??!

Ah,  THE MONTHLY FRIDAYS OLDIES NIGHTS AT WIGAN , I`m glad somebody else remembers them.  simply different class to the regular Saturday stuff

[Guest]

I attended the Saturday night sessions once or twice, but being a bit of a kid with no income except pocketing my dinner money and making do with Marmite on white, I had to cut my cloth accordingly and favoured the oldies night. Oh yes, great memories. Still have my black patch, which I look at from time to time and sigh and I drift off back onto the sauna-ific dance floor with the beat booming through my rib cage....and all those boys throwing themselves around with grimaced expressions, hurling sweat everywhere.

[Hornet]

The Friday oldies crowd were looked down upon by the Saturday crowd regulars who travelled to hear searling etc ! Even tho 4 times as many attended the Friday event ! Seems familiar ! 

Edited November 25, 2016 by hornet

[Russ Vickers]

Friday Night Oldies Nighter was the begginning of the end really....

Russ

[Paul-s]

11 hours ago, PeteSi said:

Went to plenty of clubs 1972-79 including Wigan

Unless you were actually there then I suspect most  peoples view of the scene from that era comes from footage of the casino on filming nights around the mid 70`s and mostly concentrated on the more athletic male stuff though from my own memories there were plenty of girls dancing every time I went.  around a 60/40 mix male to female would be more accurate. Also depending on the record being played on some occasions if you looked around it would look like more girls on the dance floor.

 St Ives, and Newcatle under Lyme tiffs all dayers and the like had a similar mix around 60/40 so plenty of girls all over the scene back then.

Today the mix I guess would again be close to 60/40 males to female at most of the events I go to .

Exactly as I remember it.

[Steve G]

The Record Bar, now that is a totally different question 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Russ Vickers said:

Friday Night Oldies Nighter was the begginning of the end really....

Russ

Why is that then?

[Steve G]

3 hours ago, Russ Vickers said:

Friday Night Oldies Nighter was the begginning of the end really....

Russ

I know where you are coming from Russ, but for me it was the Casino DJs inability (Richard aside) to source good new 60s uptempo soul records that led to the Friday nights, and of course they were very popular. All the Brit pop infiltrating the Saturday night playlists and of course Bobby Goldsboro x 3 just made it worse. These days I think its 50/50 ish attendee wise down here, mainly grandmas and grandads 

[Russ Vickers]

15 hours ago, flamingemeralds said:

Why is that then?

I think that it is a whole different topic & we have gone off piste enough here...

Russ

[Guest]

You started it!!!

I'll start a new topic, you can explain there.