Played Out Oldies

[Guest Bogue]

============

As I'm the person in the main arguing with Baz, I take it you're referring to me as regarding goading? What do you suggest I do if I don't agree with his or anybody elses views, say nothing? I'm sure you're probably just joking, but if we all just sat back and said nothing.......well plug me back into the matrix

No Winnie, I was just joking at Baz signing it 'Baz Goddin'. Just a play on the name

Bloody hell, i think i've done me fair share of arguing with him on this thread Win

[Winnie :-)]

No Winnie, I was just joking at Baz signing it 'Baz Goddin'. Just a play on the name

Bloody hell, i think i've done me fair share of arguing with him on this thread Win

===========

No probs, misunderstanding on my part........I tend to think of him as Baz Winstanley rather than Godin

[Guest Stuart T]

Tis indeed me mate, i do indeed enjoy classically made clothing!

Obviously i enjoy a bit of retro otherwise i wouldn't be into NS but that's not really my bona contention more the way the whole NS thing has become this tacky old peoples thing as portrayed by the media where they always focus on the likes of Russ Winstanley & Wigan etc.

I preferred it 10 years ago when it was smalller & more vibrant & happening, it's become a bit predictable IMO.

Simon

I'm with Simon on this, sat here in my oxblood royals and a button down (I do have some other clothes on as well, I am at work after all). But how dare people wear spencers to a club!

More seriously, a recent not half bad goldsoulmine whatever CD had a rant in the sleevenotes about northern soul being the ultimate over thirties night for singles or something, we were a bit depressed/outraged about that and would have chucked it out the window but it was one of only three CDs we had to hand and some of the tracks were quite good. We also realised that we couldn't remember more than about three people under the age of thirty that we regularly see out and about. Mind you, given that kids today have no respect and like music that is just a tuneless racket thats probably a good thing!

[SteveM]

No Winnie, I was just joking at Baz signing it 'Baz Goddin'. Just a play on the name

Bloody hell, i think i've done me fair share of arguing with him on this thread Win

So you two were nearly arguing about who was arguing the most then ?

Mmmm.................................................

Edited October 26, 2006 by SteveM

[Guest Lucy]

I would have thought that this sort of slagging off re: clothing, returnees is going to make people feel uncomfortable about attending do's.Either 'returnees or people wanting to attend for the 1st time'

I am sure that many 'returnees' have their own reasons for being away from the Northern scene,( I know I have mine).

At least one 'returnee' has recently DJed very successfully according to the Events lookback.

This seems extremely small minded and I cannot see the relevance to clothing and overplayed oldies.

Edited October 26, 2006 by Lucy

[Guest johnm]

I'm new to listening to the music discussed on this forum and I've listed a cd I compiled for listening in the car. Now I don't know if the tunes listed are Northern, modern, played out oldies or what ....... to me they are all 'new' and are all greeat soul sounds .......

maybe one of you will put me straight

1 I Never Knew Eddie Foster

2 Searching Willie Hatcher

3 Ain't gonna worry about you George Tinley & Modern Redcaps

4 WE LIKE GIRLS THE SCOTT BROTHERS

5 I'll Keep Holding On Marvelettes

6 Keep On Lovin' Me Frances Nero

7 SO SOON Donnie Elbert

8 HEY girl do you love me TIMOTHY WILSON

9 Just In The Nick Of Time Syng Mcgowan

10 More Today Than Yesterday Spiral Staircase

11 The Touch Of Venus Sandy Wynns

12 You Didn't Say A Word Patti Austin

13 AIn't That Good Enough John Edwards

14 What's with this loneliness Chuck Jackson

15 Heartaches Away My Boy Christine Cooper

16 Its Everything About You Lee Williams And The Cymbals

17 Don't Depend On Me Fantastic Johnny C

18 Don't Send Nobody Else Millie Jackson

19 I'm The One Who Loves You DARRELL BANKS

20 Give in to the Power of Love Committee

21 It's Your Voodo Working Charles Sheffield

22 Out Of My Life Tempests

23 I Only Get This Feeling Chuck Jackson

24 A Definite Change In You The Temptations

25 Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Love Lou Roberts

26 My Love Is Your Love Isley Brothers

27 I could'nt believe it David Ruffin & Eddie Kendricks

28 I Love Her So Much It Hurts David & Ruben

29 love runs out Willie Hutch

number 29 is my favourite....

[Garethx]

A thorny subject, this.

I too, love the Willie Hutch Dunhill 45, and consider it one of the greatest records given a second chance by the UK Northern scene. Is it overplayed? The answer is, as others have pointed out, surely a case of context. I personally never tire of hearing records like Willie Hutch, Mel Britt, Eula Cooper, Eddie Parker, John & The Weirdest or any of the great soul records which are widely considered to be the building blocks of the scene, but in the correct situation. When I'm in the right frame of mind, these records are capable of evoking a heady brew of nostalgia and sheer joy that records like this exist and have been rescued from obscurity. Do I want to hear them every time I leave the house? No. It's not just the Top 500 oldies which fit into this category either. Much as I love Ellipsis, Joseph Webster, Locations, Hamilton Movement etc. these records too have become sounds which fall into the category of "probably hammered a bit too much".

I think the problem is a wider one than just a preponderance of overplayed records. There are simply too many people who think that getting behind the decks makes them a deejay. There are too many people who consider themselves collectors because they buy the same overexposed records as everybody else. There are too many local soul nights which exist to give these people a platform. It feeds back into a thread discussed a couple of months back which tried to establish the identity of the last record to go nationally massive. The scene is simply too fragmented: in reality a myriad local scenes, with the occasional big, country-wide blow out.

My solution would be to give the really good deejays much, much longer sets than they are currently given at allnighters and soul nights, as the really good deejays are given in the wider club world. It is patently a nonsense that a Butch or Soul Sam are allocated the same airtime at an event as a local 'collector' who is basically playing records which everybody in the room could own if they wanted to. At an allnighter I want the pre-eminent deejays to take me on a journey through Northern Soul: playing classics, exclusives, well considered obscurities and so on throughout the breadth of the genres which have come to encompass Northern Soul. They cannot do this in a 45 minute spot, and it is this which has lead to the overplaying of the current big sounds as listed above, to the exclusion of records which might be lesser known, but which would be of interest to collectors and dancers alike. A really good deejay can play a set in which unknowns rub shoulders with the biggest sounds of all eras, but it needs thought, skill and space.

Deejaying is a skill (in the right hands an art form) and not everyone has that skill. In the wrong hands even the greatest record can sound tired.

[Guest Bogue]

So you two were nearly arguing about who was arguing the most then ?

Mmmm.................................................

Eh eh, calm down, who are you arguing with about who's arguing the most eh

[Winnie :-)]

So you two were nearly arguing about who was arguing the most then ?

Mmmm.................................................

===============

Just never got the hang of 'touching my forelock'...............it's been the bane of my life

[Winnie :-)]

I would have thought that this sort of slagging off re: clothing, returnees is going to make people feel uncomfortable about attending do's.Either 'returnees or people wanting to attend for the 1st time'

I am sure that many 'returnees' have their own reasons for being away from the Northern scene,( I know I have mine).

At least one 'returnee' has recently DJed very successfully according to the Events lookback.

This seems extremely small minded and I cannot see the relevance to clothing and overplayed oldies.

===============

I think what you're saying will probably fall on deaf ears.......or should that be cloth ears

[Reg]

I would have thought that this sort of slagging off re: clothing, returnees is going to make people feel uncomfortable about attending do's.Either 'returnees or people wanting to attend for the 1st time'

I am sure that many 'returnees' have their own reasons for being away from the Northern scene,( I know I have mine).

At least one 'returnee' has recently DJed very successfully according to the Events lookback.

This seems extremely small minded and I cannot see the relevance to clothing and overplayed oldies.

Ah come on , I know what is small minded- it's having the serious belief that dressing up in daft 70s throwback clothing for the night and dancing to Dance a la musique by the French Fries is in some way cool or alternative way of life Next thing you know they'll be stopping the music every hour and playing Bingo

I

Edited October 26, 2006 by Reg

[Guest Lucy]

===============

I think what you're saying will probably fall on deaf ears.......or should that be cloth ears

You're right Winnie, Don't think I've seen anyone dressed in a daft 70'S throwback clothes, if I did so what? Just couldn't see what someone wears has to do with anyone else. And still can't to be honest.

Can't see how someone wearing a vest makes a DJ play a certain record still doesn't seem connected.IMO

Edited October 26, 2006 by Lucy

[Little-stevie]

A thorny subject, this.

I too, love the Willie Hutch Dunhill 45, and consider it one of the greatest records given a second chance by the UK Northern scene. Is it overplayed? The answer is, as others have pointed out, surely a case of context. I personally never tire of hearing records like Willie Hutch, Mel Britt, Eula Cooper, Eddie Parker, John & The Weirdest or any of the great soul records which are widely considered to be the building blocks of the scene, but in the correct situation. When I'm in the right frame of mind, these records are capable of evoking a heady brew of nostalgia and sheer joy that records like this exist and have been rescued from obscurity. Do I want to hear them every time I leave the house? No. It's not just the Top 500 oldies which fit into this category either. Much as I love Ellipsis, Joseph Webster, Locations, Hamilton Movement etc. these records too have become sounds which fall into the category of "probably hammered a bit too much".

I think the problem is a wider one than just a preponderance of overplayed records. There are simply too many people who think that getting behind the decks makes them a deejay. There are too many people who consider themselves collectors because they buy the same overexposed records as everybody else. There are too many local soul nights which exist to give these people a platform. It feeds back into a thread discussed a couple of months back which tried to establish the identity of the last record to go nationally massive. The scene is simply too fragmented: in reality a myriad local scenes, with the occasional big, country-wide blow out.

My solution would be to give the really good deejays much, much longer sets than they are currently given at allnighters and soul nights, as the really good deejays are given in the wider club world. It is patently a nonsense that a Butch or Soul Sam are allocated the same airtime at an event as a local 'collector' who is basically playing records which everybody in the room could own if they wanted to. At an allnighter I want the pre-eminent deejays to take me on a journey through Northern Soul: playing classics, exclusives, well considered obscurities and so on throughout the breadth of the genres which have come to encompass Northern Soul. They cannot do this in a 45 minute spot, and it is this which has lead to the overplaying of the current big sounds as listed above, to the exclusion of records which might be lesser known, but which would be of interest to collectors and dancers alike. A really good deejay can play a set in which unknowns rub shoulders with the biggest sounds of all eras, but it needs thought, skill and space.

Deejaying is a skill (in the right hands an art form) and not everyone has that skill. In the wrong hands even the greatest record can sound tired.

Very good post Gareth

I too would like to see certain djs at all niters given more time but in two spots,say 2 x 45 min or 2x 1 hour... 5 djs could carry a niter for me..Some lads listed are on while the tables are still being put up at the start,no point thembeing there really if they aint gonna be heard later too...Good point to with regards to newer stuff being overplayed too..

I like the fact that more mid-tempo stuff is given a chance,then at least it opens the door to more and more stuff we aint heard before..I want a dj to keep me guessing whats gonna come next,not a bunch of records you can set your watch by,i know it aint so easy anymore with djs playing out every weekend..In the 90s i would just hear some djs a few times a year and that kept it special for me,too many now play tooooooooooo safe,they have a huge collection but play the same tunes too often...Like i said it aint easy to please all the people all the time.....some aint pleased any of the time,not sure why they leave the house ..God bless the promoter and the djs,its a mad world on this scene for sure..

[Guest Bogue]

Today, 02:53 PM

Post

#211

mrs bergman

Group: Mint

Posts: 631

Joined: 18-October 04

From: Stockport

Member No.: 1,870

Event:: Soul or Nothing

Last Played Clip:

Bobby Hebb - When love goes wrong

I would have thought that this sort of slagging off re: clothing, returnees is going to make people feel uncomfortable about attending do's.Either 'returnees or people wanting to attend for the 1st time'

I am sure that many 'returnees' have their own reasons for being away from the Northern scene,( I know I have mine).

At least one 'returnee' has recently DJed very successfully according to the Events lookback.

This seems extremely small minded and I cannot see the relevance to clothing and overplayed oldies.

Ah come on , I know what is small minded- it's having the serious belief that dressing up in daft 70s throwback clothing for the night and dancing to Dance a la musique by the French Fries is in some way cool or alternative way of life Next thing you know they'll be stopping the music every hour and playing Bingo

I

This post has been edited by Reg: Today, 02:55 PM

--------------------

Greatstone Soul Club

I know what is small minded too, It's having the serious belief that this actualy happens !!

Edited October 26, 2006 by Bogue

[Ged Parker]

Very good post Gareth

I too would like to see certain djs at all niters given more time but in two spots,say 2 x 45 min or 2x 1 hour... 5 djs could carry a niter for me..Some lads listed are on while the tables are still being put up at the start,no point thembeing there really if they aint gonna be heard later too...Good point to with regards to newer stuff being overplayed too..

I like the fact that more mid-tempo stuff is given a chance,then at least it opens the door to more and more stuff we aint heard before..I want a dj to keep me guessing whats gonna come next,not a bunch of records you can set your watch by,i know it aint so easy anymore with djs playing out every weekend..In the 90s i would just hear some djs a few times a year and that kept it special for me,too many now play tooooooooooo safe,they have a huge collection but play the same tunes too often...Like i said it aint easy to please all the people all the time.....some aint pleased any of the time,not sure why they leave the house ..God bless the promoter and the djs,its a mad world on this scene for sure..

Having longer to fill certainly challenges you as a DJ. I agreed to do an hour for Roly Ferguson at Dance What Ya Wanna with a brief of Latin, Boogaloo, R&B, Club Soul and a bit of Northern. I ended up doing two hours in one room and three in the other with a two hundred playbox there no space for fillers I can tell you. And you soon run out of any safe ones you have put in the box

[Dave]

I know what is small minded too, It's having the serious belief that this actualy happens !!

This post has been edited by Bogue: Today, 05:32 PM

If you really don't believe it happens, try visiting a few soul nights in the East Midlands

[Guest James Trouble]

Over played 'oldies' are anoying, but it's the over played 'newies' that really get my goat up. So called "upfront" DJs playing the same set for months, maybe even years.

"Upfront"? The soul scene in this country is full of hypocrits, I'm afraid that is the truth.

Get rid of the dead wood, clear the fuckers out. Give the better DJs longer sets and allow them the space and time to push things on...

It's nothing to do with the records being 'overplayed', it's the fact that the soul scene in this country is crawling with shite DJs with no imagination or bollocks who's primary talent is an ability to arse lick, and there are so many of them on at every night.

Edited October 26, 2006 by James Trouble

[Little-stevie]

Thats my boy James..Don't go holding back will you ..I am sure that will get some feedback

[Ged Parker]

Over played 'oldies' are anoying, but it's the over played 'newies' that really get my goat up. So called "upfront" DJs playing the same set for months, maybe even years.

"Upfront"? The soul scene in this country is full of hypocrits, I'm afraid that is the truth.

Get rid of the dead wood, clear the fuckers out. Give the better DJs longer sets and allow them the space and time to push things on...

It's nothing to do with the records being 'overplayed', it's the fact that the soul scene in this country is crawling with shite DJs with no imagination or bollocks who's primary talent is an ability to arse lick, and there are so many of them on at every night.

You had an bad day James?

[Guest James Trouble]

You had an bad day James?

No, just feeling truthful.

[Paulb]

A thorny subject, this.

I too, love the Willie Hutch Dunhill 45, and consider it one of the greatest records given a second chance by the UK Northern scene. Is it overplayed? The answer is, as others have pointed out, surely a case of context. I personally never tire of hearing records like Willie Hutch, Mel Britt, Eula Cooper, Eddie Parker, John & The Weirdest or any of the great soul records which are widely considered to be the building blocks of the scene, but in the correct situation. When I'm in the right frame of mind, these records are capable of evoking a heady brew of nostalgia and sheer joy that records like this exist and have been rescued from obscurity. Do I want to hear them every time I leave the house? No. It's not just the Top 500 oldies which fit into this category either. Much as I love Ellipsis, Joseph Webster, Locations, Hamilton Movement etc. these records too have become sounds which fall into the category of "probably hammered a bit too much".

I think the problem is a wider one than just a preponderance of overplayed records. There are simply too many people who think that getting behind the decks makes them a deejay. There are too many people who consider themselves collectors because they buy the same overexposed records as everybody else. There are too many local soul nights which exist to give these people a platform. It feeds back into a thread discussed a couple of months back which tried to establish the identity of the last record to go nationally massive. The scene is simply too fragmented: in reality a myriad local scenes, with the occasional big, country-wide blow out.

My solution would be to give the really good deejays much, much longer sets than they are currently given at allnighters and soul nights, as the really good deejays are given in the wider club world. It is patently a nonsense that a Butch or Soul Sam are allocated the same airtime at an event as a local 'collector' who is basically playing records which everybody in the room could own if they wanted to. At an allnighter I want the pre-eminent deejays to take me on a journey through Northern Soul: playing classics, exclusives, well considered obscurities and so on throughout the breadth of the genres which have come to encompass Northern Soul. They cannot do this in a 45 minute spot, and it is this which has lead to the overplaying of the current big sounds as listed above, to the exclusion of records which might be lesser known, but which would be of interest to collectors and dancers alike. A really good deejay can play a set in which unknowns rub shoulders with the biggest sounds of all eras, but it needs thought, skill and space.

Deejaying is a skill (in the right hands an art form) and not everyone has that skill. In the wrong hands even the greatest record can sound tired.

A very good post Gareth and I agree with nearly all of it, especially about being taken through a northern soul journey, but please dont subject me to 2 hrs of Soul Sam!!!!

Edited October 26, 2006 by PaulB

[Paulb]

I'm new to listening to the music discussed on this forum and I've listed a cd I compiled for listening in the car. Now I don't know if the tunes listed are Northern, modern, played out oldies or what ....... to me they are all 'new' and are all greeat soul sounds .......

maybe one of you will put me straight

1 I Never Knew Eddie Foster

2 Searching Willie Hatcher

3 Ain't gonna worry about you George Tinley & Modern Redcaps

4 WE LIKE GIRLS THE SCOTT BROTHERS

5 I'll Keep Holding On Marvelettes

6 Keep On Lovin' Me Frances Nero

7 SO SOON Donnie Elbert

8 HEY girl do you love me TIMOTHY WILSON

9 Just In The Nick Of Time Syng Mcgowan

10 More Today Than Yesterday Spiral Staircase

11 The Touch Of Venus Sandy Wynns

12 You Didn't Say A Word Patti Austin

13 AIn't That Good Enough John Edwards

14 What's with this loneliness Chuck Jackson

15 Heartaches Away My Boy Christine Cooper

16 Its Everything About You Lee Williams And The Cymbals

17 Don't Depend On Me Fantastic Johnny C

18 Don't Send Nobody Else Millie Jackson

19 I'm The One Who Loves You DARRELL BANKS

20 Give in to the Power of Love Committee

21 It's Your Voodo Working Charles Sheffield

22 Out Of My Life Tempests

23 I Only Get This Feeling Chuck Jackson

24 A Definite Change In You The Temptations

25 Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Love Lou Roberts

26 My Love Is Your Love Isley Brothers

27 I could'nt believe it David Ruffin & Eddie Kendricks

28 I Love Her So Much It Hurts David & Ruben

29 love runs out Willie Hutch

number 29 is my favourite....

Alright John,

As a young soulie that's still quite new to it all, my advice would be not to take any notice of the oldies, newies debate and just enjoy listening to and discovering new sounds. I'm hearing tunes that I think are brilliant and are new to me, but others would say they are played out!

Its a no win situation to get involved in these debates because people have very different idea's of what the scene is all about. The soul scene is made of of many different types of soul lover and each type think their outlook is correct and others have no idea.

Dont fall into any catergory and just embrace it for what it means to you.

[Guest Simon]

Over played 'oldies' are anoying, but it's the over played 'newies' that really get my goat up. So called "upfront" DJs playing the same set for months, maybe even years.

"Upfront"? The soul scene in this country is full of hypocrits, I'm afraid that is the truth.

Get rid of the dead wood, clear the fuckers out. Give the better DJs longer sets and allow them the space and time to push things on...

It's nothing to do with the records being 'overplayed', it's the fact that the soul scene in this country is crawling with shite DJs with no imagination or bollocks who's primary talent is an ability to arse lick, and there are so many of them on at every night.

Interesting post, must admit i typed something similar to this yesterday all be it a lot more polite but lost my bottle to send it.

This could go one of either ways, you may get blanked by everyone forever or some promoters who agree with you could book you for having the balls to say what some others are thinking.

Looking forward to the replies!

Simon

[Guest Baz]

My solution would be to give the really good deejays much, much longer sets than they are currently given at allnighters and soul nights, as the really good deejays are given in the wider club world. It is patently a nonsense that a Butch or Soul Sam are allocated the same airtime at an event as a local 'collector' who is basically playing records which everybody in the room could own if they wanted to. At an allnighter I want the pre-eminent deejays to take me on a journey through Northern Soul: playing classics, exclusives, well considered obscurities and so on throughout the breadth of the genres which have come to encompass Northern Soul.

Thing is Gareth, i've herd local DJ's put together much better sets than Butch and Soul Sam.

And please, please, please dont make us endure 2hrs of soul sam

[Winnie :-)]

Over played 'oldies' are anoying, but it's the over played 'newies' that really get my goat up. So called "upfront" DJs playing the same set for months, maybe even years.

"Upfront"? The soul scene in this country is full of hypocrits, I'm afraid that is the truth.

==============

Notice there haven't been too many replies to this yet.......the truth hurts springs to mind

[Guest johnm]

Alright John,

As a young soulie that's still quite new to it all, my advice would be not to take any notice of the oldies, newies debate and just enjoy listening to and discovering new sounds. I'm hearing tunes that I think are brilliant and are new to me, but others would say they are played out!

Its a no win situation to get involved in these debates because people have very different idea's of what the scene is all about. The soul scene is made of of many different types of soul lover and each type think their outlook is correct and others have no idea.

Dont fall into any catergory and just embrace it for what it means to you.

Thanks for the reply Paul oh and thanks for the 'young' but I'm not, I'm just new to the music...I've been playing in bands for over 30 years and now I'm getting a chance to enjoy this great genre of music as a listener/dancer..................

If it sounds good, makes me shuffle then it's OK by me ... oldie or newie I don't mind

[Winnie :-)]

Next thing you know they'll be stopping the music every hour and playing Bingo

============

Infinitely preferable to stopping the music every record whilst the chin strokers check the matrix number to see if said record "had a right to be played"

I don't wear spencers etc, but it does pis* me off, the indiference some of the 'younger' breed show to those who do, because they 'dress differently'. Is it any wonder the majority of the scene seem not to accept youngsters in general, when you see crass comments like "Yeah I had a piss on the casino site", side splittingly funny and clearly the best way of uniting the scene. Human nature tends to be 'tar people with the same brush', perhaps that's what happens to the majority of the younger element, suffering because of the stream of disrespectful/foolish comments from the few?

[Guest Bogue]

Next thing you know they'll be stopping the music every hour and playing Bingo

============

Infinitely preferable to stopping the music every record whilst the chin strokers check the matrix number to see if said record "had a right to be played"

I don't wear spencers etc, but it does pis* me off, the indiference some of the 'younger' breed show to those who do, because they 'dress differently'. Is it any wonder the majority of the scene seem not to accept youngsters in general, when you see crass comments like "Yeah I had a piss on the casino site", side splittingly funny and clearly the best way of uniting the scene. Human nature tends to be 'tar people with the same brush', perhaps that's what happens to the majority of the younger element, suffering because of the stream of disrespectful/foolish comments from the few?

Thing is Win, if all they ever got to do was Piss on the site then they missed out on seeing the Northern Soul scene at it's awsome adrenelin filled youthful best, so you should really only feel pity not anger ! I only made it 4 or 5 times but i count my blessings

[Winnie :-)]

Thing is Win, if all they ever got to do was Piss on the site then they missed out on seeing the Northern Soul scene at it's awsome adrenelin filled youthful best, so you should really only feel pity not anger ! I only made it 4 or 5 times but i count my blessings

===============

I'm not angry honestly, in 10 years time they'll be extolling the virtues of fave venues/sounds to a new disbelieving younger crowd

[Guest Bearsy]

Over played 'oldies' are anoying, but it's the over played 'newies' that really get my goat up. So called "upfront" DJs playing the same set for months, maybe even years. very valid point indeed

"Upfront"? The soul scene in this country is full of hypocrits, I'm afraid that is the truth. I would say very opinionated and passionate with a hint of hypocracy

Get rid of the dead wood, clear the fuckers out. Give the better DJs longer sets and allow them the space and time to push things on... only problem there is who are the better dj`s, i think most people would agree that as long as a dj shows imagination and mixes his set he really should be ok, as long as he or she dont play too safe to often

It's nothing to do with the records being 'overplayed', it's the fact that the soul scene in this country is crawling with shite DJs with no imagination or bollocks who's primary talent is an ability to arse lick, and there are so many of them on at every night.

i think my comment above should cover this too, the majority know who is a good dj and where they play but to get good you need experience and like you say BALLS to be brave and go for it.

i go to the places where i think i would like what is to be played and possibly by who but thats not that important, its the whole package for me.

Venue,friends,music,atmosphere, if i go somewhere and it dont tick most of my boxes i would think twice about going again.

Still loving it though

Bearsy

[Dave]

Next thing you know they'll be stopping the music every hour and playing Bingo

============

Infinitely preferable to stopping the music every record whilst the chin strokers check the matrix number to see if said record "had a right to be played"

I don't wear spencers etc, but it does pis* me off, the indiference some of the 'younger' breed show to those who do, because they 'dress differently'. Is it any wonder the majority of the scene seem not to accept youngsters in general, when you see crass comments like "Yeah I had a piss on the casino site", side splittingly funny and clearly the best way of uniting the scene. Human nature tends to be 'tar people with the same brush', perhaps that's what happens to the majority of the younger element, suffering because of the stream of disrespectful/foolish comments from the few?

Don't you think you are getting things a bit out of proportion there Win?

I didn't see the "pis*ing" comment and I would imagine it was an attempt at humour, but why should anybody demand respect just because they spent their youthful weekends off their tits dancing in a northern club? I think many would gain more respest if they moved on!

As you said earlier.. it ain't the holy grail

[Winnie :-)]

Don't you think you are getting things a bit out of proportion there Win?

I didn't see the "pis*ing" comment and I would imagine it was an attempt at humour, but why should anybody demand respect just because they spent their youthful weekends off their tits dancing in a northern club? I think many would gain more respest if they moved on!

As you said earlier.. it ain't the holy grail

===========

It's not about personal respect for having gone there, that has no relevance as far as I'm concerned, I'm well aware its 2006. It's about respecting a venue that was at the time responsible for breaking many great records and moving the scene forward. I never went to the twisted wheel, but understand it was crucial in the develpment of the N/S scene. Doesn't it seem a little odd to you, that people who never went to the casino, or any of the other major venues are so quick to villify them?

[Guest ShaneH]

===========

It's not about personal respect for having gone there, that has no relevance as far as I'm concerned, I'm well aware its 2006. It's about respecting a venue that was at the time responsible for breaking many great records and moving the scene forward. I never went to the twisted wheel, but understand it was crucial in the develpment of the N/S scene. Doesn't it seem a little odd to you, that people who never went to the casino, or any of the other major venues are so quick to villify them?

maybe they just wanna move on and enjoy the scene for what it is

Shane

[Winnie :-)]

maybe they just wanna move on and enjoy the scene for what it is

Shane

============

And they can't do that without trashing legendary venues they've never been too?? I haven't been to the Orwell, do you think I'm entitled to give my view of it as a venue?

[Guest ShaneH]

============

And they can't do that without trashing legendary venues they've never been too?? I haven't been to the Orwell, do you think I'm entitled to give my view of it as a venue?

but the orwell is current.

how can you compare?

[Mark Bicknell]

A thorny subject, this.

I too, love the Willie Hutch Dunhill 45, and consider it one of the greatest records given a second chance by the UK Northern scene. Is it overplayed? The answer is, as others have pointed out, surely a case of context. I personally never tire of hearing records like Willie Hutch, Mel Britt, Eula Cooper, Eddie Parker, John & The Weirdest or any of the great soul records which are widely considered to be the building blocks of the scene, but in the correct situation. When I'm in the right frame of mind, these records are capable of evoking a heady brew of nostalgia and sheer joy that records like this exist and have been rescued from obscurity. Do I want to hear them every time I leave the house? No. It's not just the Top 500 oldies which fit into this category either. Much as I love Ellipsis, Joseph Webster, Locations, Hamilton Movement etc. these records too have become sounds which fall into the category of "probably hammered a bit too much".

I think the problem is a wider one than just a preponderance of overplayed records. There are simply too many people who think that getting behind the decks makes them a deejay. There are too many people who consider themselves collectors because they buy the same overexposed records as everybody else. There are too many local soul nights which exist to give these people a platform. It feeds back into a thread discussed a couple of months back which tried to establish the identity of the last record to go nationally massive. The scene is simply too fragmented: in reality a myriad local scenes, with the occasional big, country-wide blow out.

My solution would be to give the really good deejays much, much longer sets than they are currently given at allnighters and soul nights, as the really good deejays are given in the wider club world. It is patently a nonsense that a Butch or Soul Sam are allocated the same airtime at an event as a local 'collector' who is basically playing records which everybody in the room could own if they wanted to. At an allnighter I want the pre-eminent deejays to take me on a journey through Northern Soul: playing classics, exclusives, well considered obscurities and so on throughout the breadth of the genres which have come to encompass Northern Soul. They cannot do this in a 45 minute spot, and it is this which has lead to the overplaying of the current big sounds as listed above, to the exclusion of records which might be lesser known, but which would be of interest to collectors and dancers alike. A really good deejay can play a set in which unknowns rub shoulders with the biggest sounds of all eras, but it needs thought, skill and space.

Deejaying is a skill (in the right hands an art form) and not everyone has that skill. In the wrong hands even the greatest record can sound tired.

This reply will never be bettered in my opinion, spot on mate, i've been saying longer spots are a must for years now.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[jocko]

=================

The ethos of the scene was to dance, get off your tits and enjoy yourself. When did it become a quest to find the holy grail??

From about January 1979 to about 1994 I would say, cant speak personally for earlier but on reading books I would also say thats what it was about late 60's to early 70's also!

Jock

PS Just remember your PM,. I am crap with them so will reply in next day or so !

[Winnie :-)]

but the orwell is current.

how can you compare?

=============

I'm not comparing them as venues, I'm comparing the fact I've never been there so can't comment on it (Orwell).

Although taking a leaf out of others books, from what I've been told, I wouldn't piss on it if it was on fire even if the legendary piano was in danger

Winnie:-)

Please note, I've actually only heard good things about the Orwell, just demonstrating how stupid it would be for me to take somebody elses word, without experiencing the venue myself.

[Winnie :-)]

From about January 1979 to about 1994 I would say, cant speak personally for earlier but on reading books I would also say thats what it was about late 60's to early 70's also!

Jock

PS Just remember your PM,. I am crap with them so will reply in next day or so !

==============

No worries about the PM

Not gonna get involved in an argument on this Jocko, particularly as the Sopranos is about to start. Think Russ V said the closest to how I saw it, it was an amalgam, dancing, enjoying yourself and finding new sounds. The particular reply you've quoted, was in answer to (I think) someone saying that finding records was the real ethos behind the scene whereas IMO it was so much more.

Winnie:-)

[jocko]

Over played 'oldies' are anoying, but it's the over played 'newies' that really get my goat up. So called "upfront" DJs playing the same set for months, maybe even years.

Oh no I really need to get our more, I think Mr Trouble has said one of the most insightful lines on here, if not the most diplomatically put!

There are some "upfront" records that from playlists on here seem to have been played continously for the last 20 years, generally those of high value.

From stuff I read on here it certainly does appear that there are far more big rarities overplayed at big events than the safe oldies these days, although obviously different case at the 3000 soul nights that seem to be on every week if you read the events posting.

My armchair suddenly seems not such a bad place!

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

For one thing clothing to me is wear what you like i couldn't give a f*** if someone thought ergh i wear what i want. Always a torch t-shirt

Then you go on about what do you class as someone who is a soulie etc. It wouldn't matter as we are all soulies in our own way just that some people have obviously been to legendry clubs like Wigan so does that make them better to people who only ever attended local clubs (like my dad) when they are both same.

Lastly DJ's who play the same songs well it's ok to hear some of the same tunes but always spinning something different for a change.

I for one know that i could add songs here i have not heard when i go out but if that had become part of a setlist i bet many on here would say no imagination what so ever as if they have been over played or just crap yet i believe from lists of music played out at venues up and down the country in last few years i have not heard of the tunes listed which i would have played

a simple few tunes i like and would play and could imagine being played would be

Sensational Epics - Be Young Be Foolish Be Happy

Alex Brown - Love Really Hurts Without You

Chairmen of the Board - Bless You

Toni Basil - Breakaway

Bob and Earl - Dancing Everywhere

Jay Traynor - Up and Over

but i can rest assure many would like well if hear them on my next night out by some new DJ i wouldn't go back. why at least it wouldn't be the same old songs played by the previous DJ

[Guest Simon]

This reply will never be bettered in my opinion, spot on mate, i've been saying longer spots are a must for years now.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I have to agree Mark, brilliantly written piece there Gareth & so spot on, similar to Jame's piece which also strikes a chord but more ahem subtle shall we say!

Simon

[Dave]

===========

It's not about personal respect for having gone there, that has no relevance as far as I'm concerned, I'm well aware its 2006. It's about respecting a venue that was at the time responsible for breaking many great records and moving the scene forward. I never went to the twisted wheel, but understand it was crucial in the develpment of the N/S scene. Doesn't it seem a little odd to you, that people who never went to the casino, or any of the other major venues are so quick to villify them?

Win, I agree...the respect for having gone there is of no relevance to me either, but there are some who don't seem to know it is 2006. I think what hacks off some younger people is that there are so many on the scene who want to relate as many records/events as possible to Wigan, be they DJ's or raconteurs!

I reckon the disrespect is aimed at those people rather than the venue. When you go to watch Spurs you don't spend the whole match talking about Dave MacKay and Jimmy Greaves, do you?

[Guest Officer Dibble]

I agree with this but it's not just the oldies some tunes that have gone big in the last 5 years have been hammered to death as though they were oldies, yer 'Deep dark secret', JW's 'Because of you' etc.

As i said before a serious lack of imagination from both the DJs & dancers alike.

Simon

played out oldies ,one of my favourite subjects, oh boy how people have the audacity to say records such as t.j. williams ,pat & the blenders and other recent discoveries are played out , when at many venues all you get crammed down your throat is a diet of frank wilson, epitome of sound, velvets,johnny caswell,williams & watson etc ,at least the more recent discoveries are a breath of fresh air to a scene thats fast heading the same way as the rock and roll scene. if the dinosaurs who constantly want to hear these same played out oldies opened thier ears and gave new records a chance the scene would be a much healthier place. if certain promoters had more balls and let the d.j's with new records play them instead of getting them to bow to the demands of played out same as, then we wouldn't be having this debate. finally if more d.j's didn't take the easy option and bottle it at the sight of an empty floor every now and then ,then the newer records would be more widely accepted

[Citizen P]

Or as I heard recently.......

"What a crap night...nobody played Out On The Floor or Frank Wilson"

TP

[Winnie :-)]

Win, I agree...the respect for having gone there is of no relevance to me either, but there are some who don't seem to know it is 2006. I think what hacks off some younger people is that there are so many on the scene who want to relate as many records/events as possible to Wigan, be they DJ's or raconteurs!

I reckon the disrespect is aimed at those people rather than the venue. When you go to watch Spurs you don't spend the whole match talking about Dave MacKay and Jimmy Greaves, do you?

===============

I will say they're two of my all time favourite players, but you're right I tend to focus on who's playing now. That's not to say I don't hanker for the glory glory days, or in particular that style of free flowing football

I can understand constant references by any one person re: any particular venue from yesteryear, could be annoying, but if you haven't been there, IMO you're just making yourself look foolish, as you actually have no idea what you're talking about. To be fair to SS, I haven't noticed non stop references or threads purely to do with Wigan or anywhere else on a regular basis, have you? The other point, yes its 2006, but is there a nighter or soul night (northern orientated) anywhere in the world that doesn't play something that was first played at Wigan? Surely that deserves some respect.

Winnie:-)

[Winnie :-)]

played out oldies ,one of my favourite subjects, oh boy how people have the audacity to say records such as t.j. williams ,pat & the blenders and other recent discoveries are played out , when at many venues all you get crammed down your throat is a diet of frank wilson, epitome of sound, velvets,johnny caswell,williams & watson etc ,at least the more recent discoveries are a breath of fresh air to a scene thats fast heading the same way as the rock and roll scene. if the dinosaurs who constantly want to hear these same played out oldies opened thier ears and gave new records a chance the scene would be a much healthier place. if certain promoters had more balls and let the d.j's with new records play them instead of getting them to bow to the demands of played out same as, then we wouldn't be having this debate. finally if more d.j's didn't take the easy option and bottle it at the sight of an empty floor every now and then ,then the newer records would be more widely accepted

==========

Are you saying Pat and the Blenders is the same quality as Williams and Watson or Johnny Caswell etc etc? It's lift music in comparison, particularly as far as a dancer is concerned, it just doesn't have the same energy for me.

[Winnie :-)]

Or as I heard recently.......

"What a crap night...nobody played Out On The Floor or Frank Wilson"

TP

=============

I've probably heard 'out on the floor' 4/5 times in the last 10 years, and that's generally going out twice a week, has it made a comeback somewhere?

[Pete Eccles]

=============

I've probably heard 'out on the floor' 4/5 times in the last 10 years, and that's generally going out twice a week, has it made a comeback somewhere?

hi winnie PM'd you erm i think

[Winnie :-)]

hi winnie PM'd you erm i think

==========

Got it