Lou Courtney Slowly Slip Away Mix 2 matrix

[Kegsy]

Mr Manship has two mixes listed with no's 1 & 3 in the dead wax, just checked my copy which has PHW 35055 2 in the dead wax. Since i don't have the copies of the other mixes I can't compare them. Any ideas chaps ?, why isn't the "2" mix listed in Manship ?.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Kegsy

[Kegsy]

Surely someone has an opinion on this or am I to assume 1. mix 2 so rare nobody has seen it before 2. Its common as muck and not worth mentioning in a price guide. 

Edited October 20, 2016 by Kegsy

[The Yank]

My copy has a  1 in the dead wax.

 I've seen the version with the "3" in the dead wax described as the "handclap mix".. Does your version have the added handclaps?

Not sure if that helps but at least you might be able to figure if the "2" version is the same as the "1" or "3" version.

 

 

 

[Bbrich]

mine is a '3' and i vaguely remember the vocal kicks in earlier but i am far from sure on that. 

[Mick Holdsworth]

There is also reference to a '4' version too (Just looked at listings on Discogs and there are 3 copies, Versions 1, 3 and 4.

Heres what the sellers say ...

Lou Courtney - I Watched You Slowly Slip Away / I'll Cry If I Want To (7")
Media Condition: Very Good Plus (VG+)
Sleeve Condition: Very Good Plus (VG+)
nice demo with 35055-4 in the dead wax with clapping in the background.Clean labels on both sides few light marks on the vinyl dont effect sound

Lou Courtney - I Watched You Slowly Slip Away / I'll Cry If I Want To (7")
Media Condition: Near Mint (NM or M-)
Sleeve Condition: Generic
1ST MIX PHW-35055-1. Actual item for sale scan here. https://www.avidvinyl.com/pic/23062010_3248.JPG

Lou Courtney - I Watched You Slowly Slip Away / I'll Cry If I Want To (7")
Media Condition: Near Mint (NM or M-)
Sleeve Condition: Generic
Mix 35055 - 3 Lou Courtney vocal on intro + added hand claps + stronger sax break.

Cheers
Mick

Edited October 21, 2016 by Mick Holdsworth

[Kegsy]

12 hours ago, the yank said:

My copy has a  1 in the dead wax.

 I've seen the version with the "3" in the dead wax described as the "handclap mix".. Does your version have the added handclaps?

Not sure if that helps but at least you might be able to figure if the "2" version is the same as the "1" or "3" version.

 

 

 

I'm not too sure, it has what sound like handclaps but they are not very prominent and could be something else, maybe (muffled) rimshots.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Kegsy

[Kegsy]

10 minutes ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

There is also reference to a '4' version to (Just looked at JM listings on Discogs and he has 3 copies, Versions 1, 3 and 4. all at the same price.

Apparently the demos are mix number 4 too.

[Mick Holdsworth]

From the listings above, I see that 3 is an issue and 4 is a demo, but are they the same Mix ?

I wonder if it's that 1 and 2 are the same as each other, just issue / demo, and the alternate version appears as both 3 and 4, again just issue / demo ?

Mix 1 appears to be an issue, so what is your "2" copy. is it a demo ?

 

[Kegsy]

9 minutes ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

From the listings above, I see that 3 is an issue and 4 is a demo, but are they the same Mix ?

I wonder if it's that 1 and 2 are the same as each other, just issue / demo, and the alternate version appears as both 3 and 4, again just issue / demo ?

Mix 1 appears to be an issue, so what is your "2" copy. is it a demo ?

 

Black issue.

I have e-mailed Mr Manship to see if he has any ideas.

[Mick Holdsworth]

Ok, so that theory is down the pan.

Just for reference, as far as I can make out, these are the two versions.

This is the version WITHOUT the extra vocals - This is version 1

 

This is version with vocals right at the beginning - Version 3

 

[Kegsy]

10 minutes ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

Ok, so that theory is down the pan.

Just for reference, as far as I can make out, these are the two versions.

This is the version WITHOUT the extra vocals - This is version 1

 

This is version with vocals right at the beginning - Version 3

 

Ok now we are getting somewhere, mine has definitely got the vocals at the start the same as version 3, although I'm still not sure on the hand claps, if fact I can't tell the difference hand clap wise on the two versions you posted up. Is it me ?.

[Bbrich]

i can tell much difference except the slightly earlier vocals . (my 3 is a demo).

[Mick Holdsworth]

21 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

Ok now we are getting somewhere, mine has definitely got the vocals at the start the same as version 3, although I'm still not sure on the hand claps, if fact I can't tell the difference hand clap wise on the two versions you posted up. Is it me ?.

So it would appear that your "2" and V3 are the same. I also can't really tell the difference in handclaps either.

One thing I have just noticed that in Version 1 at about 1:30 there is a line "Yes I Did, Yes, I Did". In version 3 it is just "Yes I Did".

There are other subtle differences, but they're hard to discribe. To me at least the overall mix of Version 1 is a little softer than 3, which may be why the handclaps don't seem as prominent. Of couse this may be down to the way each YouTube track was recorded, rather than an inherrent difference in the mastered recordings.

Would be interested to get to the bottom of it. Hope John does have some info on this.

[Jez Jones]

1 hour ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

Ok, so that theory is down the pan.

Just for reference, as far as I can make out, these are the two versions.

This is the version WITHOUT the extra vocals - This is version 1

 

This is version with vocals right at the beginning - Version 3

 

Issue I presume is a lot harder to find than the demo on mix#3 ?

[Kegsy]

32 minutes ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

 

Would be interested to get to the bottom of it. Hope John does have some info on this.

Will let you know when I hear from John, he's probably still counting his auction commissions at the moment. 

[Tlscapital]

Well they are 2 different takes that's what it is.

[Mick Holdsworth]

54 minutes ago, jez jones said:

Issue I presume is a lot harder to find than the demo on mix#3 ?

I think so, there's a couple on Discogs at the moment for £250 (both M / M- issues V3). All the black copies I could see are either described as V1 or undefined, and all the white ones are either V3 or undefined, so issues of probably V3 probably are harder to find, hence the £250

The V4 is listed as a demo in Discogs, with handclapping, but that distinction is unclear, so that could be either version, and we now know from Kegsey is that his V2 is the same as V3.

4 minutes ago, tlscapital said:

Well they are 2 different takes that's what it is.

Yep, you're right of course, the term "Mix" should be read as Version, or Take (I've reverted to V )

[Kegsy]

13 minutes ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

I think so, there's a couple on Discogs at the moment for £250 (both M / M- issues V3). All the black copies I could see are either described as V1 or undefined, and all the white ones are either V3 or undefined, so issues of probably V3 probably are harder to find, hence the £250

The V4 is listed as a demo in Discogs, with handclapping, but that distinction is unclear, so that could be either version, and we now know from Kegsey is that his V2 is the same as V3.

Yep, you're right of course, the term "Mix" should be read as Version, or Take (I've reverted to V )

Unless there are other subtle differences, that this clothed eared old git (me) can't hear, it's not easy with youtube recordings.

[Triode]

I recall a studio acetate (diff take!) of this as well,

was for sale at Dave Withers/Rod Shards Afflecks Palace stall in Manchester circa early 90's, if my memory serves me correctly it was Lou Courtney vocal but with different artist name? perhaps Rod recalls more detail??......

[Kegsy]

Just giving this a bump up (and different title), as nobody seems to know anything about it. Surely it can't have remained hidden all this time.

[Kegsy]

Bit of a (non) update on this. I have emailed Johnny Manship (twice) and Pat Brady regarding this oddity and had no replies. It would appear nobody can help with this conundrum. 

[Shsdave]

I've had mine since the early 80s & it's version 1,  No 3 I don't think I've ever heard before, the vocal is so different ! 

I don't actually notice any difference with the sax break as mentioned in the discogs listing & not sure that there is any difference re the handclaps.

Mick could be right in that version 1 is a slightly "softer" mix but again as Mick says it could just be the recording level on you tube.

To my ears & they are old & rather battered  but it seems to me that the instrumentation, the girls vocals & the handclaps are all the same & I wonder if Lou simply recorded at least one of the versions singing to the already recorded backing track & his vocal is the only difference ?

[Andy Rix]

On 22 October 2016 at 11:57, Triode said:

I recall a studio acetate (diff take!) of this as well,

was for sale at Dave Withers/Rod Shards Afflecks Palace stall in Manchester circa early 90's, if my memory serves me correctly it was Lou Courtney vocal but with different artist name? perhaps Rod recalls more detail??......

Wasn't it Top Cat .... 

Andy

[Kegsy]

On 10/22/2016 at 11:57, Triode said:

I recall a studio acetate (diff take!) of this as well,

was for sale at Dave Withers/Rod Shards Afflecks Palace stall in Manchester circa early 90's, if my memory serves me correctly it was Lou Courtney vocal but with different artist name? perhaps Rod recalls more detail??......

 

53 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

Wasn't it Top Cat .... 

Andy

But did it have the elusive 2 in the run out ?????

[Andy Rix]

2 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

 

But did it have the elusive 2 in the run out ?????

it was a Bell Sound Studio acetate .... so I don't know .. but certainly recall lots of extra handclaps ...

Andy

[Triode]

Top Cat sounds correct ........