who will replace us?

[Bitchdj]

it is a sad state of affairs when none of us are getting any younger to turn on the PC log in to SS and read the news that another of the soul collective has lost the fight for life...at the moment it feels like almost one a week and if it isn't soul fans it's soul legends passing away... are the young uns going to carry on our stalwart way of life?...i know most of the rest of europe tend to have a younger scene than us old farts still harking back to wigan etc but will they be as avid?...will our record collections be adorning the pasting tables of many a car boot sale? i would like the opinions of some of the younger members here  to soothe an old soul who really hasnt been out on the scene as such for quite a while due to a mixture of factors...ie-i am in nursing and we work shifts and the old cant be arsed syndrome...maybe a new interest will spark out of that film northern soul...i fecking hope not cos that just made us look like a bunch of drug taking anoraks...is it all as vibrant as it once was...memory permitting...

[Mtay9778]

Very sad as always to hear such news. On a more positive note and in response to the post I would say the scene is in good hands with plenty of younguns which seems to be increasing especially if I think back to when my Dad took me to Prestwich around 10 years ago as I got a few funny looks but couldn't believe how many younguns were at the last Rugby Niter, not to mention Jordan putting on his niter in Wigan which I hear was a big success with approx 800 in attendance. 

Plenty of young dancers, DJs & collectors out there, you can catch some of us at The Original Skegness Weekender (shameless plug) and credit to those such as Dave, Donna, Coops and all involved at Skegness and other promotors out there who are giving the younguns a chance. 

Mike

 

[Dobber]

The scene will last a lot longer if we stop playing this god awful northern soul and start playing drum & bass...haha

 

[dean jj]

blended with thrash metal

[Geeselad]

we need more traditional, experimental folktech! 

[Frankie Crocker]

Keep The Faith. As the music is good enough, the young crowd will embrace it. The Northern Soul movement is in safe hands as there are plenty of youngsters with good taste in music. If you are worried about your records ending up at a car boot sale, let me have some and I'll find a good home for them.

[Hugo Sanchez]

for all that it matters i am only 24 years old, I've been collecting soul records ever since i was able to pick up trash at work for my father just to earn a quick buck, maybe for a pair of shoes or a brand new shirt to bring to school but that wasn't the case, i would do it just so that i can come home from school and see a small little brown or white box just hanging out in front of the door. now 12 years later, my passion for this 7" wax has been part of my life, i live in southern califronia a few of you may know them as southern soul spinners but I'm just a soul collector. throughout these 12 years of collecting I've noticed/learned a lot about older collectors. some may appreciate the fact that a kid 20 or 30 years younger than them is doing it, doing it by learning, finding out where this record came from or if this record came out in a different label or if their was a promo to it, and to those who wouldn't like to hear that it hurt them. i just never understood why. till this day i still don't understand why. 

[Andy Reynard]

No matter how old you are in the soul scene in the Uk,there are still records that haven't been played out or heard by the masses, younger folk who have a great passion for the vinyl are more abundant than we think, and also have the enthusiasm to carry the scene on  playing their own taste in music, I don't think we have much to worry about, the young uns need encouragement  not chastised by some old men 

rant over

[Steve L]

Next time you're out and about estimate what percentage of the crowd are young (young being under 40)

As time goes on there will possibly be some remnants of a scene left but in 20 years the original generation will be in their 80s (those that are still alive) - anyone who thinks the scene will be anything like its is today is quite frankly living where the cloud cuckoos do.....

[Mal C]

The sale in the sky has already begun, lots of older devotees selling up, which you would think would bring prices down,  Hasn't ! 

see it as passing of the baton, its more romantic that way...

[Zed1]

1 hour ago, Steve L said:

Next time you're out and about estimate what percentage of the crowd are young (young being under 40)

As time goes on there will possibly be some remnants of a scene left but in 20 years the original generation will be in their 80s (those that are still alive) - anyone who thinks the scene will be anything like its is today is quite frankly living where the cloud cuckoos do.....

What he said. 

If you hear any Northern Soul music in 20 years time it'll likely be accompanied by a Coffin disappearing behind a curtain.

 

 

[Kev Cane]

6 hours ago, elantique said:

for all that it matters i am only 24 years old, I've been collecting soul records ever since i was able to pick up trash at work for my father just to earn a quick buck, maybe for a pair of shoes or a brand new shirt to bring to school but that wasn't the case, i would do it just so that i can come home from school and see a small little brown or white box just hanging out in front of the door. now 12 years later, my passion for this 7" wax has been part of my life, i live in southern califronia a few of you may know them as southern soul spinners but I'm just a soul collector. throughout these 12 years of collecting I've noticed/learned a lot about older collectors. some may appreciate the fact that a kid 20 or 30 years younger than them is doing it, doing it by learning, finding out where this record came from or if this record came out in a different label or if their was a promo to it, and to those who wouldn't like to hear that it hurt them. i just never understood why. till this day i still don't understand why. 

Some people just want it all for themselves, you are in a good place over there, loads of good collectors who I am sure will admire the fact you are collecting at such a young age, Sigs, Robert Galan, Arlene Soulera 5150, Angel Garcia, George Miller Jay and Greg Belson are all down your way and I am sure they would pass on their knowledge to you, in the North, Vic Vasquez, Sleeps, Duke, Cameron Thompson, Deleon brothers etc are all good guys who like sharing the heat. Good on you, keep digging for them gems and ask any of the guys I have mentioned if you need to know anything.

Kev

[Colouredman]

Apparently, after the Wheel they said Northern would die off. Similarly after the Torch they said the Northern scene would end. After Wigan they said it would never be the same again and would die. They said Stafford was the beginning of the end.

Hmmmm? Well somethings not quite gone to plan, coz apparently now there are more Northern devotees than ever before, regardless of age. Plus now we have a scenario which didn't exist in Wheel, Torch, Wigan or Stafford times; it's now a global, worldwide phenomenon!!! Furthermore figure this; it's the most enduring music-based subculture ever, bar none!

Everything changes and evolves, and the Northern scene is no exception. In years to come there may not be a scene as we know it today, so what. At the Wheel you figure that no one would have thought that collectors in 2016 would want to pay 4 and 5 figures for a northern record, but here we are.

 At the Torch someone would have suggested you'd ingested a shade too many chemicals if you'd have said that Americans currently want to find rare soul more than any other genre, or that there would be northern collectors in Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Belgium, Japan, etc etc etc.

So don't break out the black suit for Northern's funeral just yet; coz it's definitely not over yet.... It's just different, and evolving, and will continue to do so.

Finally if you think not, consider this; worst case scenario, there is no scene in years to come and our collections end up in 2nd hand shops and boot sales.

Someone picks up a bunch of these strange records with big holes in the middle and funny looking labels. They take a chance on a few and realise there's something quite catchy and infectious about them and that there's an identifiable 'sound' to them all.

Next thing you know they start lookin out for more with that same sound and start to collect them, then find ways to dance to them, then look for others with similar tastes.......

Sound familiar???????

[Garethx]

^ Spot on.

[Andy Reynard]

46 minutes ago, colouredman said:

Apparently, after the Wheel they said Northern would die off. Similarly after the Torch they said the Northern scene would end. After Wigan they said it would never be the same again and would die. They said Stafford was the beginning of the end.

Hmmmm? Well somethings not quite gone to plan, coz apparently now there are more Northern devotees than ever before, regardless of age. Plus now we have a scenario which didn't exist in Wheel, Torch, Wigan or Stafford times; it's now a global, worldwide phenomenon!!! Furthermore figure this; it's the most enduring music-based subculture ever, bar none!

Everything changes and evolves, and the Northern scene is no exception. In years to come there may not be a scene as we know it today, so what. At the Wheel you figure that no one would have thought that collectors in 2016 would want to pay 4 and 5 figures for a northern record, but here we are.

 At the Torch someone would have suggested you'd ingested a shade too many chemicals if you'd have said that Americans currently want to find rare soul more than any other genre, or that there would be northern collectors in Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Belgium, Japan, etc etc etc.

So don't break out the black suit for Northern's funeral just yet; coz it's definitely not over yet.... It's just different, and evolving, and will continue to do so.

Finally if you think not, consider this; worst case scenario, there is no scene in years to come and our collections end up in 2nd hand shops and boot sales.

Someone picks up a bunch of these strange records with big holes in the middle and funny looking labels. They take a chance on a few and realise there's something quite catchy and infectious about them and that there's an identifiable 'sound' to them all.

Next thing you know they start lookin out for more with that same sound and start to collect them, then find ways to dance to them, then look for others with similar tastes.......

Sound familiar???????

Well said That man travelling home and abroad to soul venues really does open your eyes to the multitude of young soul orientated fans , dancers,collectors,alike don't close the curtain just yet!!!

 

[Markw]

What Tim (colouredman) said. Brilliant summary.

It's far from dead or dying - and in saying that, I include the whole nostalgia, oldies thing right across to the more underground, so-called progressive scene encompassing clubs like Empty Bottles, Spirit, Soul Funktion, Black Bee, GoGo Children, 100 Club not to mention those clubs which have gone down the 'gentler' end of things, like Seriously Soulful and Soul Kitchen.

It's just different nowadays and it's global. If you want to think in terms of 'a scene', particularly one revolving around vintage 60s and 70s soul (and funk), then maybe it's time to stop thinking 'Northern Soul scene' and instead think Rare Soul & Funk scene? Then again, what the feck does it matter what it's called or what it looks like? What's a 'scene' anyway? There's enough choice out there now. Plus, if you really don't want to venture out of your front door, you don't actually need to - the internet brings it all right to you, digitally.

Kim, there's plenty of chances to say 'fings ain't like they was' and take the 'glass half-empty' viewpoint (and, let's face it, Northern Soul's always been packed full of them). I actually genuinely believe that there's so much choice out there nowadays that I feel I'm looking into a very full glass indeed.

[Zed1]

My Grandparents were into the Big Bands sounds popular in the dance halls of the 40's.  My parents were into the Rock & Roll music of the 50's. Both these Genres were Hugely more popular than NS, yet with the exception of the odd 'Theme' night and the usual Jive Bunny Mega mix at your Grannys 50'th wedding anniversary Do, they are pretty much forgotten.

Why Will Northern Soul be any different?.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Zed1

[Steve L]

Who's said the scene is dead or dying at this point in time?? The point is whats it going to be like in the future when everyone who's in their 50s & 60s now are either dead or too old to go out. When the wheel, torch and wigan closed, there wasn't a large group of people closer to the end than the beginning their lives.

I'll repeat what i said earlier, there might be some small thing going on in 20 years time (maybe less) but not on the scale of today. 

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Steve L

[Kegsy]

14 minutes ago, Zed1 said:

My Grandparents were into the Big Bands sounds popular in the dance halls of the 40's.  My parents were into the Rock & Roll music of the 50's. Both these Genre's were Hugely more popular than NS, yet with the exception of the odd 'Theme' night and the usual Jive Bunny Mega mix at your Grannys 50'th wedding anniversary Do, they are pretty much forgotten.

Why Will Northern Soul be any different?.

Just a small point, but your examples were mainstream "pop"ular music genres. They were not an underground alternative to what is/was in the top 40. I reckon there will always be people who don't want the "mainstream" and who will seek out alternatives.

[Zed1]

13 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

Just a small point, but your examples were mainstream "pop"ular music genres. They were not an underground alternative to what is/was in the top 40. I reckon there will always be people who don't want the "mainstream" and who will seek out alternatives.

They may not have been underground then, but they are now, Still don't make 'em Cool for todays kids though.  And remember Motown was very much 'Pop'ular music back in our day, yet it was the start for many of us.

There will always be a small minority in the future who will have an interest in the genre, but as said above the scene will be tiny compared to today.

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Zed1

[Guest]

the best art lives on? classical, blues, jazz etc.  

[Steve S 60]

To be honest, I'm not bothered if anybody replaces "us" or not.  None of my three kids are into the scene and that's fine by me.  I wasn't intending bringing up a bunch of mini me's.  I'm quite happy to see youngsters on the scene, but one thing's for sure, they're inheriting a scene that is a very sanitised version of what it was in the 60's through to the 80's.  Again, that's fine if that's what they want.  More likely a signs of the times, and things are going to get more chilled as we all mellow with age.  On the other hand, maybe they can't wait for us to roll over so they can have it all to themselves.  Thing is, there's such a wide range of ages evident on the scene today due to its longevity.  Looking around the venue I attended on Saturday night, I felt positively young (at 55)!  In the meantime, l'll keep on keeping on until it's quitting time.

[Bitchdj]

I didn't say the scene was dying it was an idle wondering is all i really don't go out much  and as mark said previously the music has taken many turns and as I am getting on in years i prefer to tap my toes to the gentler pace ie-seriously soulful. I still love my soul but have stayed away from venues that just churned out the same old rubbish time after time. The "age" thing came up after I looked at some pics from one of the oldies weekenders and the mean age was prolly 60 . I m a member of a ladies only ( sorry gents) vinyl freak FB group where the age range is really young and the lady collectors are from all points of the globe  its all genres but mainly soul & boogie its  great place to hear new stuff. The thing is we have all built up our various collections over the years and now that I have more disposable income ( kids all buggered off lol) I have no desire to buy big ticket items anymore cos I much prefer to select records that suit my pace these days and most of those are about £10-20. But I recently had to catalogue my records for insurance purposes and the value ( book price blah) is astounding...Who will want these little discs of vinyl after I am gone? I don't DJ much anymore unless someone twists my arm...My eldest son I used to take to venues with me he loved the music and has a small collection of vinyl himself which he has now asked me to sell as they have a baby on the way he has no interest in inheriting my collection to keep it would be purely an asset to sell...it wont be long...coming to a car boot sale soon...

[Mike Lofthouse]

1 hour ago, thomas ogorman said:

the best art lives on? classical, blues, jazz etc.  

indeed it does....Otis Redding will of been dead fifty years next year, his music crops up all over the place without the help of any 'scene'.   I'm sure all the great Soul music has been captured for posterity in a way much of the great historic Blues and Jazz was not.  It will be around for future generations of music lovers to enjoy for years to come.

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Hi all, you can relax...

 

There WILL be a scene devoted to spinning the old soul 45s long after 'we' (and I use that term loosely, seeing as I'm a relatively young newcomer starting in the eighties, brought to the 'dead' scene by some older reprobates!) are dead and buried...

 

Kids aren't as daft as some people think, all of my kids and their pals were all introduced to old funk and soul stuff round my house when they were kids, they all got turned on to guitars and old retro sounds, many kids are aware that they're spoonfed sh**e by the likes of Simon Cowell and the mainstream, and a great many look for other alternatives.

 

Most, of the NS records are killer sounds and certainly when you play a few select cuts to new ears they are immediately interested, some of our lot recently went to George Clinton in Birmingham, the old boy was raving about NS and the crowd were a mostly much younger crowd than us lot!

 

I believe that there are two types of music, whatever the genre, there is only good and s**t, young ears that are discerning will always find the good stuff, I've yet to play a NS killer track to any of them and they haven't liked it!

 

I have played in a pro 50s Rock n Roll band now for decades, it's amazing the amount of younger couples that do the Jitterbug and that at our gigs, all that 50s retro style is really in, collecting old doo-wop and RnR 45s is really in!

 

Old Soul music is in with the young crowd as an alternative to old RnR, Punk, Stoner Rock and all that. The ones who don't get retro never will, they need spoonfeeding, the establishment say 'we'll tell you what's good and play it till you like/buy it', that doesn't work with all of them though like it didn't with all of us!

 

The flyers given out at niters is the key to it, when the new-breed get the flyer at a niter that is what they respond to, they want to be part of underground movements where they can be themselves!

 

Only crticism I will mention though for the benefit of the future scene is those that criticise the new-breed for wearing baggies and stuff, stop that!

 

The youngsters will always need a fashion code that sets them apart from the mainstream, we all know that back in the day any style of dress was accepted (I was a goth when I first went) but the new-breed want to dress the way they do as they are seeking their identity, don't get so aged that you forget that fact, and that nothing puts the youngsters off more than some grandad saying they aren't allowed to dress how they want. The scene will carry on and will always be an alternative to the mainstream and because the music is actually good and there's plenty of records to avoid boredom setting in!

 

Key to all this is if you want it to carry on you have to let the youngsters have it, don't put them off by criticising them, they're only dressing like they see in the clips of Casino after all, and it's the scenes fault if they percieve 70s wigan to be the pinnacle in terms of soul fashion!

Edited September 21, 2016 by BabyBoyAndMyLass
grammar

[Thinksmart]

I am cultivating my kids.   My older son now sees strong links across soul to hip-hop and is a devotee of Isley Brothers, George Clinton, Motown, Stax, popular northern soul and funk.     It's only so long before his interest takes him to a nighter with me then he'll be hooked for life.

If that doesn't work then back-dropping robots.

[Guest cloudy days]

From this younger American's perspective, if anything interest in twenty-something oriented soul nights and whatnot seems to be on the rise here. However, few of them are Northern soul nights. The majority aren't even dance-oriented, and the ones around here that are dance-oriented tend more toward funk or R&B. 

Surely there are several reasons why. Many younger soul fans have built their taste (and collections) through the internet rather than through being part of a scene. My impression is that the demand in the heyday of Northern was mostly oriented toward one niche of the wider soul sound, whereas now one starts the long journey with quite a bit already laid out in front of them. Whether that's for better or for worse, it makes the taste of the young set less a continuation and more a variation on what many here are into.

The biggest factor has got to be price, though. I mean, sure, you can put together a hundred fine sets of $10-20 Northern cuts (especially given that nobody here grouses about things being overplayed), but there's something frustrating about pursuing a style where so many of the classics are entirely out of reach for someone on a typical young person's budget, especially given rising rents, relatively low wages, etc. I certainly haven't consciously chosen my collecting interests based on their price, but you buy what's available at your budget and then it starts to shape your taste. My introduction to soul was downloaded Kent comps (so mostly Northern), but when I started buying more seriously my taste started to slide toward the slower and deeper end of things - not coincidentally where the most deals are at present. I didn't start to prefer the style because those records were cheaper, but because when you listen to a lot of records with the same sound you start to get more invested in that sound, especially when you have the slight obsessive streak that almost everyone who gets deep in something like this has. And even when I do come up on rare Northern material I eventually end up selling it to Brits to fund my other record buying because the prices are too high for me to justify sitting on it.

If the Northern market eventually crashes, perhaps there will be a new Northern scene, but the barrier of entry is far too high for most young people to be involved in it the way most here are.

Scenes will die. Soul music will live.

[Soulcarp]

9 hours ago, colouredman said:

Apparently, after the Wheel they said Northern would die off. Similarly after the Torch they said the Northern scene would end. After Wigan they said it would never be the same again and would die. They said Stafford was the beginning of the end.

Hmmmm? Well somethings not quite gone to plan, coz apparently now there are more Northern devotees than ever before, regardless of age. Plus now we have a scenario which didn't exist in Wheel, Torch, Wigan or Stafford times; it's now a global, worldwide phenomenon!!! Furthermore figure this; it's the most enduring music-based subculture ever, bar none!

Everything changes and evolves, and the Northern scene is no exception. In years to come there may not be a scene as we know it today, so what. At the Wheel you figure that no one would have thought that collectors in 2016 would want to pay 4 and 5 figures for a northern record, but here we are.

 At the Torch someone would have suggested you'd ingested a shade too many chemicals if you'd have said that Americans currently want to find rare soul more than any other genre, or that there would be northern collectors in Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Belgium, Japan, etc etc etc.

So don't break out the black suit for Northern's funeral just yet; coz it's definitely not over yet.... It's just different, and evolving, and will continue to do so.

Finally if you think not, consider this; worst case scenario, there is no scene in years to come and our collections end up in 2nd hand shops and boot sales.

Someone picks up a bunch of these strange records with big holes in the middle and funny looking labels. They take a chance on a few and realise there's something quite catchy and infectious about them and that there's an identifiable 'sound' to them all.

Next thing you know they start lookin out for more with that same sound and start to collect them, then find ways to dance to them, then look for others with similar tastes.......

Sound familiar???????

Lovely post and so true but it's the funk gene that's baffled me 

[hullsoul]

15 hours ago, soulcarp said:

Lovely post and so true but it's the funk gene that's baffled me 

John

What like N.F Porter-Keep On Keeping On..........northern anthem?

Cheers

Martyn

[hullsoul]

It will be here going long after us lot have had our last dance I'm certain.As was so eloquently put by Colouredman maybe not in the form we would recognise straight away but all the traits will be there if you look closely.Knowing some of the younger soulies as I do & how popular it is in Europe & other parts of the world I'm sure there's plenty of mileage in the scene yet

Cheers

Martyn   

[Guest phillybuster]

On 9/21/2016 at 15:43, Mike Lofthouse said:

indeed it does....Otis Redding will of been dead fifty years next year, his music crops up all over the place without the help of any 'scene'.   I'm sure all the great Soul music has been captured for posterity in a way much of the great historic Blues and Jazz was not.  It will be around for future generations of music lovers to enjoy for years to come.

Well said Mike.

[Kev Cane]

Will it be a nostalgia scene,? will people turn up fresh quality unheard gems ? Thinking about it, to new ears, the records left behind, then become the quality unheard gems as Tim suggested, but I don't think the new ears will be able to go out and sustain the scene as being fresh, will take a long time again, but it will eventually evolve to nostalgia

Kev

Edited September 23, 2016 by kev cane

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Only tonight my middle son, 26, comes home from work and shows me a post from one of his mates facebook, it read that matey, forget the guys' name is on tonight down the community centre, believe me I live in a very tiny place compared to what a lot of us are used to, population probably still less than 20,000. The guy is gonna be playing Soul, Funk, Ska, Latin jazz, Northern Soul plus more I can't recall (it was quite a list) my lass and I haven't gone on account of this venue being a hangout for a much younger crowd than us. The new breed are mixing it up with funk and other stuff, he's gone down there with a fair few who have been turned on to that kinda stuff round ours.

I'll explain how this interest in NS music came about for them. I'll try not to make this too long winded.

About ten years ago I was doing an informal bass guitar school round my house (for free, music being a gift that has to be given on request, rather than charged for) and at the time the whole of Cornwall it seemed were cracked on Red Hot Chili Peppers. Naturally these kids want to play along to the Chilis' CDs and play slap bass like Flea. I explain to them that to do this they must first get the grounding in funk and soul music playing, I started them on Sly and the family stone, mention Larry Graham and the slapping style, they'd heard of LG from something related to RHCP. So now they're borrowing my Sly CDs. We progress over time then to Funkadelic and George Clinton comes into the frame, then it turns out he had produced RHCPs' album 'Freaky Styley'. That led to me spinning The Parliaments DBSAM. As these players are progressing I'm upping the ante every lesson and Gil Scott Heron 'The Bottle' gets a play. So all the time these lot are getting more into that kind of stuff, disco like Chic, Motown, Funkadelic and all that whilst all the time learning to play along to these RHCP CDs they've got. Eventually I said something like well if you think that's good bass listen to this one...Yup 'Turnin my heartbeat up'...

Anyway cut a long story short, one plays bass now in a disco/funk band, another is a DJ on an internet radio station playing funk and soul, gets his northern burn-offs off me and plays stuff from them, they all went to Ray Charles gig at Newquay the other week, Funk, Jazzy, Soul and Northern Soul. I could go on but little point, you get the idea.

So it all mixes in, the real music lovers whatever age, if they're predisposed to the quality of American black music through the decades (rewind the years starting from hip-hop) it all leads to Soul, and of course Blues etc (I'm a massive fan of Mississippi Delta Blues, pretty killer at playing the slide style, although my dough comes from playing 50s RnR and CW). I myself got into Lou Reed and Velvet Underground on account of listening to David Bowie, it all ties up, music lovers have a way of finding good music and Northern is some of the best music around and will always be highly rated I reckon, from hearing and liking a couple of tunes at a mixed event it's only a short step to specialist events. So leave your vinyl to your kids when you go and a note saying 'Go out and get yourself a few bob by playing these out instead of selling 'em!'

All my mates thought the scene had died when WC closed till they got flyered up at a soulies' wedding reception and having me as a driver led to a good few years of regular niters, it ain't dying and the music is out there now thanks to the pioneers and is available to the new-breed and they WILL use it!

In fact it isn't the end, it's just the beginning!

Ps: Where is the 'punch-the-air' smiley?

 

[Guest GeoffB]

I'm a youngster and go to my local northern nights regularly. Whilst the majority of people are in the older generation, there are always a few younger faces. I feel that most other people have got it spot on: the scene will evolve. I play a lot of later disco, boogie, crossover cuts just because it's more affordable and easy to pick up. Stuff like Ester Phillips - What a difference a day makes, Al Wilson - Earthquake and the like. In the future it may not be as big a scene as it is today (or has been in the past) but hopefully the essence will still be there, a bunch of people dancing in a dimly lit room to long lost and forgotten American soul records.

And don't worry, when your records start hitting the carboots I'll be there to pick them all up

[Guest johnny hart]

Instead of worrying about the "Afterlife" of the Scene why not just enjoy the here and now? The nostalgia scene is thriving,and judging by the fierce defense of current DJs Collectors,against Frank" Spencer ". Elson, the Soul Source Supporters are thriving too. Wise Up and Enjoy! LOL, Johnny.

[Guest]

Who will replace us? We'll never know? Maybe we'll all come back as ghosts? Haunting the King's Hall and other venues. There'll be ghostly legends and tales of hearing the sound of stomping at midnight! And the faint sound of an eerie female vocalist singing "No-one there...." And "The Whooooo Whooooo Song". We'd be known as Gholies! There's be a horror film called The Gholies of the Old Kings Hall and no original vinyl would be played......

[Hugo Sanchez]

On 9/21/2016 at 02:56, colouredman said:

Apparently, after the Wheel they said Northern would die off. Similarly after the Torch they said the Northern scene would end. After Wigan they said it would never be the same again and would die. They said Stafford was the beginning of the end.

Hmmmm? Well somethings not quite gone to plan, coz apparently now there are more Northern devotees than ever before, regardless of age. Plus now we have a scenario which didn't exist in Wheel, Torch, Wigan or Stafford times; it's now a global, worldwide phenomenon!!! Furthermore figure this; it's the most enduring music-based subculture ever, bar none!

Everything changes and evolves, and the Northern scene is no exception. In years to come there may not be a scene as we know it today, so what. At the Wheel you figure that no one would have thought that collectors in 2016 would want to pay 4 and 5 figures for a northern record, but here we are.

 At the Torch someone would have suggested you'd ingested a shade too many chemicals if you'd have said that Americans currently want to find rare soul more than any other genre, or that there would be northern collectors in Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Belgium, Japan, etc etc etc.

So don't break out the black suit for Northern's funeral just yet; coz it's definitely not over yet.... It's just different, and evolving, and will continue to do so.

Finally if you think not, consider this; worst case scenario, there is no scene in years to come and our collections end up in 2nd hand shops and boot sales.

Someone picks up a bunch of these strange records with big holes in the middle and funny looking labels. They take a chance on a few and realise there's something quite catchy and infectious about them and that there's an identifiable 'sound' to them all.

Next thing you know they start lookin out for more with that same sound and start to collect them, then find ways to dance to them, then look for others with similar tastes.......

Sound familiar???????

man i absolutely love this

[Twoshoes]

Inspired by this thread, not so much who will replace us but what will we become, Mods please remove if you think inappropriate  

 

Who are We?

In a room as bright as sunshine

for health and safety reasons of course

there’s a squeak of rubber on maple

a mushroom cloud of talc hits the floor

 

Not for the need of the dancers

side to side glide a memory fade

it’s for the rubber bottomed zimmers

of the geriatric Northern brigade

 

There’s no synchronized clap to Duke Browner

they don’t dare let go of the frame

there’s teeth in glasses on tables

and a definite lack of shame

 

For everyone’s wearing baggies

circle skirts are de re guere

as trips to the toilets are many

and only the youngsters dare

 

Wear anything other than baggy

speed is the essence that rules

tight clothing is for the tourists

backdrops only for fools

 

Youngsters a bit of stretch

if sixty five can be considered such

at the decks, playing the wrong side

a slightly confused, incontinent Butch

 

Manship arrives on his scooter

not a Lambretta, the mobility kind

his front basket stuffed with records

towing a trailer behind

 

Sat in his pomp like the pope

in the trailer clutching his box

sits a Utd shirt adorned Ginger

in his underpants and socks

 

His arrival greeted with cheers

from those who can still see that far

there’s even a glance over shoulders

from the orderly queue at the bar

 

Beer is flowing in half pints

the best seller Sanatogen wine

two booted and suited old mods stand arguing

whether Loakes stand the test of time

 

 

Bemused faces greet Hank Jakobs

I used to stomp to this you know

been a while but I’ll lay down my crutches

go on I’ll give it a go

 

Young Len slips onto the dance floor

that’s literally, not gracefully at all

his belly flop across the maple

a quite spectacular fall

 

Where once it was accepted

on the dance floor drinks were no go

it’s liquid of a different nature

that glistens like stardust on the floor

 

A commotion ensues at the entrance

drowning out the sound of the Snake

as a coach load of Japanese tourists

wide eyed do a double take

 

On an Oldsoul tour of the scene

promised a taste of the Mecca and Wigan

cameras flash creating strobe lighting

as Butch reveals his new bigun

 

There’s the sound of a snore from the corner

Ted Massey is found sound asleep

Julian Bentley sat beside him

with a bowl of water, soaking his feet

 

The great and the good smile like children

as the Japanese click their cameras for fun

with their suitcases full of our records

off to the land of the rising sun

 

Ginger is halfway through signing

an autograph for a girl of eighteen

when a voice from behind shouts loudly

hey, you’re not bloody Levine

 

The afternoon sun slowly sinking

nurses and carers appear at the door

come you lot of old bastards

time for drugs, to a raucous roar

 

Though time may have passed us by

and we may be well past our prime

it will always and forever be

in our hearts and minds soul time

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lucky One]

Love the post by colouredman totally spot on, long may it be the case. Slightly off topic two weeks ago my wife and I went on holiday to Spain while in Cadiz we walked passed few bars and night clubs, one of the clubs had a poster outside advertising up and coming events one of which was a motown and northern soul night. What a great sight I firmly believe there is a future for this great music .

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

OK I have something to add to this tread yet again. Saturday night a small crew of soulies, all around middle aged, (he said with a wry smile) perhaps about ten of us, went to a soul night down Falmouth, to hear three of our local DJs, well known DJs Lee Vowles, Jo March and Fraze, all very good DJs, (in case they get wind of this post...) no they really are great otherwise we wouldn't be following them.

Anyway this do is in Falmouth, bit of background for those who don't know it, Falmouth has in the last decade or so had massive investment in it's college/uni whatever it is and is now a major student hub. The do is upstairs at a bar I know well having gigged there many scores of times when it was a normal live music type bar, it's now changed and aimed squarely at the student market with regular DJs playing whatever it is they play these days, upstairs in a decent venue, one of the regular spots maybe once a month is the Soul/RnB/Motown night which is free.

So there's about ten of us 'oldies' in there and Lee and Jo are doing some double decking, great. Well the beat was obviously thumping downstairs, it's freshers' time  and these young students were attracted to it BIG TIME. Cue some irritation to us old moaners, within an hour the dancefloor is like the bogs in an old-school allnighter, you could go for a swim, it's so packed there's zero chance of a proper dance, drinks are getting slopped over you (what is that about? To me a pint goes down your neck, not slopped all over the floor I love drink, and the idea of nursing it while dancing as opposed to necking it seems mental to me)...

However this isn't a rant or a moan, the night was an absolute roaring success, the students, aged between 18 and probably 20ish, were coming up to us soulies telling us how wicked the music is, the floor was heaving, packed to bursting point, in short it was a cracking night, sure you couldn't get up and do the northern shuffle, although our women did shoes off and stockinged feet, they didn't seem put off by all the young boys  and it was somewhat irritating for all of us but make no mistake this was a cracking night, the DJs and the venue must have been absolutely delighted, these kids were seriously getting down in their way to the sounds that Jo, Lee and Fraze were socking to 'em!

OK they were enjoying it in a different way than we do, there was no discussion about records or labels, there were no posturing ballerinas to watch, no reminiscing about 'when I were a lad', no chewing invisible gum, no moaning whether it was OVO or not (I'm sure it was as the DJs are quality proper Soul DJs) but make no mistake the kids were totally loving it! I guess we won't be going again, but that's fine, we won't be missed, the numbers were great without us little lot, and it was fantastic, good to see, compared to most soul events this was a riot! Brilliant win-win!

Soul aint dyin' it's only just begun!

That reminds me must get me pipe and slippers and listen to some Richard and Karen!

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

OK I have something to add to this tread yet again. Saturday night a small crew of soulies, all around middle aged, (he said with a wry smile) perhaps about ten of us, went to a soul night down Falmouth, to hear three of our local DJs, well known DJs Lee Vowles, Jo March and Fraze, all very good DJs, (in case they get wind of this post...) no they really are great otherwise we wouldn't be following them.

Anyway this do is in Falmouth, bit of background for those who don't know it, Falmouth has in the last decade or so had massive investment in it's college/uni whatever it is and is now a major student hub. The do is upstairs at a bar I know well having gigged there many scores of times when it was a normal live music type bar, it's now changed and aimed squarely at the student market with regular DJs playing whatever it is they play these days, upstairs in a decent venue, one of the regular spots maybe once a month is the Soul/RnB/Motown night which is free.

So there's about ten of us 'oldies' in there and Lee and Jo are doing some double decking, great. Well the beat was obviously thumping downstairs, it's freshers' time  and these young students were attracted to it BIG TIME. Cue some irritation to us old moaners, within an hour the dancefloor is like the bogs in an old-school allnighter, you could go for a swim, it's so packed there's zero chance of a proper dance, drinks are getting slopped over you (what is that about? To me a pint goes down your neck, not slopped all over the floor I love drink, and the idea of nursing it while dancing as opposed to necking it seems mental to me)...

However this isn't a rant or a moan, the night was an absolute roaring success, the students, aged between 18 and probably 20ish, were coming up to us soulies telling us how wicked the music is, the floor was heaving, packed to bursting point, in short it was a cracking night, sure you couldn't get up and do the northern shuffle, although our women did shoes off and stockinged feet, they didn't seem put off by all the young boys  and it was somewhat irritating for all of us but make no mistake this was a cracking night, the DJs and the venue must have been absolutely delighted, these kids were seriously getting down in their way to the sounds that Jo, Lee and Fraze were socking to 'em!

OK they were enjoying it in a different way than we do, there was no discussion about records or labels, there were no posturing ballerinas to watch, no reminiscing about 'when I were a lad', no chewing invisible gum, no moaning whether it was OVO or not (I'm sure it was as the DJs are quality proper Soul DJs) but make no mistake the kids were totally loving it! I guess we won't be going again, but that's fine, we won't be missed, the numbers were great without us little lot, and it was fantastic, good to see, compared to most soul events this was a riot! Brilliant win-win!

Soul aint dyin' it's only just begun!

That reminds me must get me pipe and slippers and listen to some Richard and Karen!

The above is nothing new and has been happening in many university cities/towns for years.  Yes they enjoy it but it is whatbhappens after the night and especially more so when they leave university, hardly any get into the scene, it is just a night out, hardly any have the dedication to take treat it more than a night out once a month. Practically none of them will travel to nighters etc. That in itself is fine, nothing wrong with that but it isn't going to help the scene prosper.

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

4 minutes ago, chalky said:

The above is nothing new and has been happening in many university cities/towns for years.  Yes they enjoy it but it is whatbhappens after the night and especially more so when they leave university, hardly any get into the scene, it is just a night out, hardly any have the dedication to take treat it more than a night out once a month. Practically none of them will travel to nighters etc. That in itself is fine, nothing wrong with that but it isn't going to help the scene prosper.

Hi Chalky, hope your birthday was a cracker! Yeah appreciate what you're saying here probably a very good point, probably remember it as crackin p***ed night out but yes I guess you are right, thing is with our age group, we didn't have the 'stuff' that kids nowadays dig, hence we were into stuff like collecting soul, digging for bottles, trainspotting, all kinds of obsessive things that were our entertainment in the 70s and in the pre-internet/digital/gaming age. So while there may be a continuing market for soul nites it won't be the soulscene that we remember, so yeah agree with what you've said!

[Corbett80]

On 8 October 2016 at 05:59, elantique said:

Finally if you think not, consider this; worst case scenario, there is no scene in years to come and our collections end up in 2nd hand shops and boot sales.

Please god let this be me that finds them all in a boot sale.

Edited October 24, 2016 by corbett80

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

8 minutes ago, corbett80 said:

Please god let this be me that finds them all in a boot sale.

You will..

Play 'em and you'll be able to pull all the women in the old folks home!

[Banner]

Can someone please give me directions to the 2nd Hand Shops & Car Boot sales where those rarities are being sold/given away?.....

Or, if anyone is thinking of taking their collections to either sales outlets, I will gladly take them off your hands. It'll be a sacrifice but I don't mind putting myself out.....:-)

[Bunderthollox]

However this isn't a rant or a moan, the night was an absolute roaring success, the students, aged between 18 and probably 20ish, were coming up to us soulies telling us how wicked the music is, the floor was heaving, packed to bursting point, in short it was a cracking night, sure you couldn't get up and do the northern shuffle, although our women did shoes off and stockinged feet, they didn't seem put off by all the young boys  and it was somewhat irritating for all of us but make no mistake this was a cracking night, the DJs and the venue must have been absolutely delighted, these kids were seriously getting down in their way to the sounds that Jo, Lee and Fraze were socking to 'em!

OK they were enjoying it in a different way than we do, there was no discussion about records or labels, there were no posturing ballerinas to watch, no reminiscing about 'when I were a lad', no chewing invisible gum, no moaning whether it was OVO or not (I'm sure it was as the DJs are quality proper Soul DJs) but make no mistake the kids were totally loving it! I guess we won't be going again, but that's fine, we won't be missed, the numbers were great without us little lot, and it was fantastic, good to see, compared to most soul events this was a riot! Brilliant win-win

 

that would have been right up my street, wish Id been there to see that, unfortunately the scene is dominated by well...others...and some of the young uns coming onto the scene are being bigged up and schooled in pure arrogance, which means in ten years time they will be left to play by themselves.  

answer is to go forward and not look back,  decline is reflected in the amount of "safe djs" who have been playing the same sets for the past ten years,  eventually people go off and do other things, it will go the same way as the rock n rollers, if theres no new words in a language it dies off, that is the Northern scene in a lot of quarters. TBH some places have turned into WMCs. The rock n roll scene as an example is alive and well in the continent where they have big attendances and big prize dance comps, pure enjoyment, and I havent been to one yet but the soul scene is obviously strong in Europe. 

[Guest John29]

You mention 2nd hand shops, car boot sales. I remember back in 75, I went to a Sunday market, there's this guy selling 50 imports for a £1. I thought in for a penny. Took them home, started going through them, crap, crap, crap, etc until I got to approx single number 41 and bingo an original copy of Ede Robin - There Must Be Love Somewhere. 

Banner: I made the mistake of telling Chris Marriott of my find and he wouldn't leave me alone, offering me a pound for it.

So I can imagine, when guys have been carted off up the road in a box and the kids are going through the loft, sorting stuff out, they'll find all this vinyl with big holes in the middle and they'll have no idea what they are looking at and either dump 'em or car boot 'em.

[Guest John29]

Going back to the original topic.

I don't go to many events, I stop local and I find that some DJ's play what they want to here instead of playing to the dance floor. I think newcomers to the scene judge a track by the amount of people on the dance floor. If it's packed it's good and they will want the more. 

Just a thought.?

Edited November 1, 2016 by John29

[Bunderthollox]

On 20/09/2016 at 17:09, bitchdj said:

...but will they be as avid?.the emphasis is more on the music than the collection for the vast bulk of Europeans i think ..

will our record collections be adorning the pasting tables of many a car boot sale? They already are and some dealers have set up permanent shop in an aircraft hangar at Hemswell Lincs you always find something,  now Dig Vinyl in Liverpool mainly go car booting every day of the week. 

is it all as vibrant as it once was..

yeah i think so it depends where you go and what you want, if you go looking for warm beer and a pie, bitching and "edginess" thats what you will find,  I  personally find Cleggy n Skeggy vibrant, and Crossfire which is heaving with younger punters an awesome spectacle!  and Blackpool, to a great extent Prestatyn...ie bigger dos in big venues..that does it for me.

 

[Liljimmycrank]

As a relatively young person on the so called scene (soon to be 33), I've read all the views on here. Most are reasonable and fair, and I'd agree with a lot of them.

There does though seem to be a lot of bias in the writing of them towards the UK. I guess that's because people talk/type as they see it from their experiences.......

The (soul) scene today is absolutely globall. Big in Japan, massive is Europe, a revival going on in the states, EX pats doing their thing in Australia, south East Asia etc. In all these parts of the world, the scene takes on different forms whether it be popular bar gigs, organised events as here in the UK. Whether it be oldies, rare soul, modern etc, or all under one roof.

Fact is, the scene is not as it was in the 70's. It wasn't the same as the 70's even in the 80's. Things evolve, change, take different forms.

Will there be a soul scene in 20yrs? Absolutely.  Will it look like it does today? No, thank God - change is needed in anything in life to keep things fresh and attractive. Will the UK scene be the same as it is today? No, time has told us that's unlikely. People will sadly pass on, as will their records and knowledge BUT the music lives on, it's just that good. The passion of collectors will never die off, even if facets of the social scene we know today aren't recognisable, whatever that may be viewed as in the eyes of the beholder.