Jerry Hipkiss Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 I thought that all the copies around in the 70's were part of a warehouse buy-up, but on JM's auctions he mentions counterfeit copies...anyone tell me the difference? Hippo.
Pete S Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 Never heard of a boot. Like you say, all the copies that turned up in 77 were undistributed stock, found and imported by Kev Roberts. 2 years ago I was still buying these off ebay for £10.
Jerry Hipkiss Posted October 10, 2006 Author Posted October 10, 2006 Never heard of a boot. Like you say, all the copies that turned up in 77 were undistributed stock, found and imported by Kev Roberts. 2 years ago I was still buying these off ebay for £10. Thanks Pete, maybe if JM's reading this he can enlighten us...
Codfromderby Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 I thought that all the copies around in the 70's were part of a warehouse buy-up, but on JM's auctions he mentions counterfeit copies...anyone tell me the difference? Hippo. some of the dodgy ones either have another track on instead of heaven etc or another inferior cut of heaven if my memory serves me correct, i can remember years ago buying one from a shop in notts,playing it and telling one of my mates who informed me that my copy was a proper one, so i went back to the shop bought five more with the dodgy track on
Mark B Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 some of the dodgy ones either have another track on instead of heaven etc or another inferior cut of heaven if my memory serves me correct, i can remember years ago buying one from a shop in notts,playing it and telling one of my mates who informed me that my copy was a proper one, so i went back to the shop bought five more with the dodgy track on i bought one but it had the other side on both sides luckily got money back mark
Pete S Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 Yes there was one with the B side on both sides on ebay 2 weeks back.
Guest Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 (edited) AMIRATIONS on PAREE The authentic original is VERY rare!! Here how to tell the difference between the horrid scruffy counterfeit which was sold as warehouse stock.. that was the usual excuse after all. ORIGINAL has a pronouced 10.OO mm wide dip before the center hole. Red lettering is a pale red you can detect the silver background through silver background is light with less gloss. 2 turn dead wax is 13.00mm wide the matrix is about 2.00mm high read in 117-B scratched the deadwax, then a unique matrix with is a W with a a 3 wrote through right hand top of the W. Edge of the vinyl is flat and dull to the touch. COUNTERFEIT Counterfeit copy has a light dip before the center hole: Red lettering is strong red yu cannot see the silver background through, the text is often smudged or looks as if the printer was running out of ink, paper is smooth with a light gloss, that's why the ink didn't take very we1l.. 2 turn dead wax is 14.00mm wide at the 4.2mm high 1 in 117-B scratched the deadwax. Edge of the vinyl narrows with light sharpness at the edge to the touch. Loads of differences there to check on, think you'll find most people will own the counterfeit. amnd yes who ever pressed stiffed all us trusting collectors again! Edited October 11, 2006 by john manship
Rudzy Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 enclosed attatched scan of the original that Johns talking about,this has the w / 3 in the matrix, the b side is "my admiration for you" interesting to see a scan of the boot - must say ive had every single northern boot at some time or other,but i caant remember seeing the Admirations boot...
Jerry Hipkiss Posted October 11, 2006 Author Posted October 11, 2006 (edited) AMIRATIONS on PAREE The authentic original is VERY rare!! Here how to tell the difference between the horrid scruffy counterfeit which was sold as warehouse stock.. that was the usual excuse after all. ORIGINAL has a pronouced 10.OO mm wide dip before the center hole. Red lettering is a pale red you can detect the silver background through silver background is light with less gloss. 2 turn dead wax is 13.00mm wide the matrix is about 2.00mm high read in 117-B scratched the deadwax, then a unique matrix with is a W with a a 3 wrote through right hand top of the W. Edge of the vinyl is flat and dull to the touch. COUNTERFEIT Counterfeit copy has a light dip before the center hole: Red lettering is strong red yu cannot see the silver background through, the text is often smudged or looks as if the printer was running out of ink, paper is smooth with a light gloss, that's why the ink didn't take very we1l.. 2 turn dead wax is 14.00mm wide at the 4.2mm high 1 in 117-B scratched the deadwax. Edge of the vinyl narrows with light sharpness at the edge to the touch. Loads of differences there to check on, think you'll find most people will own the counterfeit. amnd yes who ever pressed stiffed all us trusting collectors again! Thanks for that John - that gives me something to do when I get home from work...looking at that pronounced dip on Rudzi's scan gives me a sinking feeling...another NS myth blown out of the water! Hippo. Edited October 11, 2006 by Jerry Hipkiss
Benji Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 john, unless someone stands up and confirms that it was pressed by XY in say 1978 due to demand, your description reads not like original and counterfeit but more like 1st issue and 2nd issue done by the label owners. maybe the record did sell well on release and they pressed another say 500 copies? AMIRATIONS on PAREE The authentic original is VERY rare!! Here how to tell the difference between the horrid scruffy counterfeit which was sold as warehouse stock.. that was the usual excuse after all. ORIGINAL has a pronouced 10.OO mm wide dip before the center hole. Red lettering is a pale red you can detect the silver background through silver background is light with less gloss. 2 turn dead wax is 13.00mm wide the matrix is about 2.00mm high read in 117-B scratched the deadwax, then a unique matrix with is a W with a a 3 wrote through right hand top of the W. Edge of the vinyl is flat and dull to the touch. COUNTERFEIT Counterfeit copy has a light dip before the center hole: Red lettering is strong red yu cannot see the silver background through, the text is often smudged or looks as if the printer was running out of ink, paper is smooth with a light gloss, that's why the ink didn't take very we1l.. 2 turn dead wax is 14.00mm wide at the 4.2mm high 1 in 117-B scratched the deadwax. Edge of the vinyl narrows with light sharpness at the edge to the touch. Loads of differences there to check on, think you'll find most people will own the counterfeit. amnd yes who ever pressed stiffed all us trusting collectors again!
Guest Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 (edited) enclosed attatched scan of the original that Johns talking about,this has the w / 3 in the matrix, the b side is "my admiration for you" interesting to see a scan of the boot - must say ive had every single northern boot at some time or other,but i caant remember seeing the Admirations boot... I've got the COUNTERFEIT in stock, but I'm up to my ears in it today. If nobody sends the scan in I'll do it tomorrow. Yes you can see the pronounced dip on the label your original copy. Edited October 11, 2006 by john manship
Gene-r Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 (edited) Just to throw another spanner in, I've heard of some copies omitting the "Chicago, Illinois" bit under "Paree Records" (unlike mine, which is a definite original and does show this). Is this correct? Does the boot also omit this detail? Edited October 11, 2006 by Gene-R
Rob Wigley Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 AMIRATIONS on PAREE The authentic original is VERY rare!! Here how to tell the difference between the horrid scruffy counterfeit which was sold as warehouse stock.. that was the usual excuse after all. ORIGINAL has a pronouced 10.OO mm wide dip before the center hole. Red lettering is a pale red you can detect the silver background through silver background is light with less gloss. 2 turn dead wax is 13.00mm wide the matrix is about 2.00mm high read in 117-B scratched the deadwax, then a unique matrix with is a W with a a 3 wrote through right hand top of the W. Edge of the vinyl is flat and dull to the touch. COUNTERFEIT Counterfeit copy has a light dip before the center hole: Red lettering is strong red yu cannot see the silver background through, the text is often smudged or looks as if the printer was running out of ink, paper is smooth with a light gloss, that's why the ink didn't take very we1l.. 2 turn dead wax is 14.00mm wide at the 4.2mm high 1 in 117-B scratched the deadwax. Edge of the vinyl narrows with light sharpness at the edge to the touch. Loads of differences there to check on, think you'll find most people will own the counterfeit. amnd yes who ever pressed stiffed all us trusting collectors again! God help us when we all get older, pleased John has written most of this down !!!!!
Guest Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 Just to throw another spanner in, I've heard of some copies omitting the "Chicago, Illinois" bit under "Paree Records" (unlike mine, which is a definite original and does show this). Is this correct? Does the boot also omit this detail? Both the boot and the origional have the same label info.
Gene-r Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 Just spotted this on Popsike, where it lists two copies - one which is a definite original (though without the "Chicago, Illinois"), and this one. Is this the boot, John? If so, some poor sod's parted with £249 for it!
Guest Trevski Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 (edited) The other popsike scan, pronounced center dip, but no 'chicago' so are these real? Edited October 11, 2006 by Trevski
Pete S Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 Just spotted this on Popsike, where it lists two copies - one which is a definite original (though without the "Chicago, Illinois"), and this one. Is this the boot, John? If so, some poor sod's parted with £249 for it! I've never seen one that looks like that scan so the ones that Kev Roberts found must have been the originals then
Platters 81 Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 years ago i had one of the boots which did have the "smudged" red lettering......it was in a box in my local record shop along with other boots like Bobby Guitar Wood on Colt..
Jerry Hipkiss Posted October 12, 2006 Author Posted October 12, 2006 oh well, for once I'm in the clear...pronounced dip, W3 mark and all. Interesting to find all these variations as up till now I think most of us thought that there was just the one batch! Happy Hippo
Ady Potts Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 Just to throw another spanner in, I've heard of some copies omitting the "Chicago, Illinois" bit under "Paree Records" (unlike mine, which is a definite original and does show this). Is this correct? Does the boot also omit this detail? Here's mine. Pronounced dip, no "Chicago, Illinois", it has 117-A w3 in the run out. Just looks like they pressed a batch & then thought perhaps we should add Chicago, Illinois ? Would seem strange to do it the other way round & remove it?
Jerry Hipkiss Posted October 12, 2006 Author Posted October 12, 2006 Here's mine. Pronounced dip, no "Chicago, Illinois", it has 117-A w3 in the run out. Just looks like they pressed a batch & then thought perhaps we should add Chicago, Illinois ? Would seem strange to do it the other way round & remove it? Just checking Pottsy, should that be 117-B, not A? Your scan shows -B on the label like the others...
Mark B Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 forum had me worried for a bit but just checked my copy and it is a legit with the chicago illinois on it. was concerned because i paid a decent amount for it. mark
Ady Potts Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 Just checking Pottsy, should that be 117-B, not A? Your scan shows -B on the label like the others... Hello Jerry, sorry mate, yes your correct, 117-B is the "Heaven is in your arms" side. Just thought, some years ago I had one that didn't play on centre. The one i've got now plays fine. Does the one with "Chicago..." on the label play on centre? Just a thought. Cheers, Ady.
Gene-r Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 Hello Jerry, sorry mate, yes your correct, 117-B is the "Heaven is in your arms" side. Just thought, some years ago I had one that didn't play on centre. The one i've got now plays fine. Does the one with "Chicago..." on the label play on centre? Just a thought. Cheers, Ady. Hi Ady, Yes - they sure do! Gene
Guest Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 Here's mine. Pronounced dip, no "Chicago, Illinois", it has 117-A w3 in the run out. Just looks like they pressed a batch & then thought perhaps we should add Chicago, Illinois ? Would seem strange to do it the other way round & remove it? Potsy, Does this press have W3 matrix in the deadwax if it don't, it ain't from the original master stamper! ?? I'm gonnaig around and see if i have a NO CHICAGO address acopy! John
Ady Potts Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 Potsy, Does this press have W3 matrix in the deadwax if it don't, it ain't from the original master stamper! ?? I'm gonnaig around and see if i have a NO CHICAGO address acopy! John Hi John, Yes it does have the w3 in the deadwax So whats the verdict?
Guest Posted December 2, 2007 Posted December 2, 2007 enclosed attatched scan of the original that Johns talking about,this has the w / 3 in the matrix, the b side is "my admiration for you" interesting to see a scan of the boot - must say ive had every single northern boot at some time or other,but i caant remember seeing the Admirations boot... Hi Paul, I called you a couple of hours back and bought Martha Reeves 'Love Guess Who', Ruby Winters and Timothy Wilson. Just had another look at the Martha Reeves scan and it does say £15 on the site...Is that the right price? Cheers.
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