Larry Allen - Can't We Talk it Over (Green Dolphin)

[Chris Turnbull]

Larry or L Allen - 'Can't we talk it over' (Green Dolphin) - discuss 

Banging tune, love it but what a terrible voice really - on a par with Reggie Alexander or Johnny Rodgers - must have been white?

Who was Larry Allen? Anyone ever track him down? Did he do anything else?

Where was Green Dolphin records - Detroit?

Who discovered / played it? 

Torch? Catacombs?

Must be quite a few around - was a box found at some point?

Is that weird jump in the instrumental section that throws it completely off the beat a pressing fault?

Who did that funny version where a woman sings along with him?

Has the same backing track been used elsewhere?

How come it came out twice as L. Allen and Larry Allen? Which is more rare?

Cheers, Chris. 

 

 

[Iancsloft]

Larry Allen is from Pittsburg think he's still Knockin around he lived nr Record Dealer the late Jerry Braverman the 45 was quite a big local hit I think the Larry Allen's where custom copies given to local radio stations ect think that's what Jerry told me many moons ago .I once got 4 copies of L Allen and 2 Larry Allen's off Jerry for next to nowt?

[Dave Thorley]

The Label was owned by the same guy that owned Jeree records, Jerry Reed. The studio was still open up until a few years ago and you could walk in and just chat to Jerry and the other guys there. The studio was a contract studio, where they would record anyone that walked in the door and paid their money. As part of the deal they could arrange records to be pressed or just put it out on the Jeree label.

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2016 by Dave Thorley

[Raremusicdirect]

There is also a version, clearly based the song, released on another label - instrumental.

I will try to find it tonight if no one mentions it during day.

Think was a Canadian release, but not sure.

 

[Gene-r]

I think that 'weird jump' in the instrumental section was down to a bad master tape edit.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Gene-R

[Mick Boyle]

I think the studio was on Green Dolphin Avenue or something similar 

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

Right from my dim and distant memory......I'm a bit senile now........Mick Brown told me this so I better get him to give you the full story as I probably missed loads. 

Many moons ago Mick and Franc (I think) visited Jerry Reed (JR) at his place. As Dave has already pointed out he also had the Jeree label. The story goes that the Green Dolphin output was for the tracks they thought wouldn't quite cut it and Jeree was for the better tracks. Anyway the subject got around to L Allen, and JR said that he did not press it as Larry Allen only L Allen. He said the artists name was Leonard not Larry and at the time of Mick's visit L was working as a sports reporter on a newspaper or radio station...something like that.

Anyway Mick or Franc would probably fill in blanks or correct this.

[Chris Turnbull]

Thanks for good info so far folks - much appreciated and v. interesting

Anyone help with my other questions? When was it first played here, who did the version with the woman singing along, etc

 

[Winsford Soul]

Chris. The Larry Allen is a lot less common than the L Allen release , it was always about £50 more expensive. Maybe even more in these mad price times

Steve

[Soulstu]

To me it's always sounded like a rough demo, certainly not fully rehearsed. You can hear the musicians feeling their way around the song gingerly rather than playing definitely rehearsed lines and notes. Maybe 'L', Leonard, Larry or whoever turned up with a sketch for a song and they just jammed it for a couple of minutes with the tape running and as it didn't sound too shabby, left it at that.

The bit in the middle where it goes funny sounds to me like the drummer and bass player getting a bit lost and not knowing when to come back in for the singing. I've done that plenty of times in my dark music playing past!!!

 

[Chalky]

What is in the deadwax of the respective releases, L Allen and Larry. 

[Md Records]

I was told by some of the Pittsburgh record hounds that Larry abandoned his singing career and concentrated on Journalism after scooping an interview with Frank Sinatra in New York, who famously was reluctant to be interviewed.

Des

[Chris Turnbull]

Thanks guys - what about when it was first played here - Casino? Who played it? John Anderson find?

[Arthur Fenn]

i used to play it at the Winter Gardens 78 ish courtesy of Mr Raistrick, think i gave him Danny Monday for it 

[Chris Turnbull]

25 minutes ago, Arthur Fenn said:

i used to play it at the Winter Gardens 78 ish courtesy of Mr Raistrick, think i gave him Danny Monday for it 

Thanks Arthur - was it big elsewhere at the same time? 

[Steve L]

4 minutes ago, Chris Turnbull said:

Thanks Arthur - was it big elsewhere at the same time? 

I was around 78/9 and can't remember it from back then although my memory has  been AWOL for a while now.........

Edited May 18, 2016 by Steve L

[Peter99]

One of those great early memory records for me. Still love it.

 

32 minutes ago, Chris Turnbull said:

Thanks Arthur - was it big elsewhere at the same time? 

Twas a huge record in my memory.

 

P 

[Chris Turnbull]

18 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

Twas a huge record in my memory.

Which venues do you associate it with most?

[Peter99]

Just now, Chris Turnbull said:

Which venues do you associate it with most?

My earliest all niters/dayers were Cleethorpes, Derby Assembly Rooms and events round Notts etc. Thats where I rememeber it from - memory could be shot though as it was a long time ago!

The Derby Assembly Rooms never gets talked about - it was heaving with a bouncing dance floor.

 

[Chalky]

11 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

My earliest all niters/dayers were Cleethorpes, Derby Assembly Rooms and events round Notts etc. Thats where I rememeber it from - memory could be shot though as it was a long time ago!

The Derby Assembly Rooms never gets talked about - it was heaving with a bouncing dance floor.

 

Wasn't Nev Wherry responsible for it round that way?

[Peter99]

3 minutes ago, chalky said:

Wasn't Nev Wherry responsible for it round that way?

Could well have been Nev Chalky - I can't remember.

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Anyone know anything about the version with the woman singing over the top of Larry, like a duet? 

Used to have it on a tape years ago, maybe from one of the early 90's weekenders radio shows. Could never make up my mind if it was any good or not

 

[Peter99]

From a previous SS thread - not my comment but Trevs; "i remember neal clowes playing the larry allen with female backing at bradford queens hall in the early 90's, i was sat with tony coleby at the time, tony went off to investigate & apparantly, it was neals daughter singing the backing, as neal was quite friendly with chris king it was probally done at chris's studio, i remember going down to see chris a few years later & he played me a frank wilson / chris clark duet of "do i love you" which he'd sat up all night splicing together, it was amazing, frank wilson and chris clark sung alternate verses & he dubbed both there voices on the chorus, it was a real professional job, you couldnt hear the joins, chris was always messing about with things like that, he certainly knew his way round a mixing desk" Peter

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Spot on Peter, thanks - here it is at 35.40 from Yarmouth w/e radio show, though Neil Allen plays it (Neil Clowes follows). 

 

[Pga1]

Hiya, got some tapes fom early 9ts that were from 'tony warot' rip.  Chris & frank do I.  Jackie & irma sweetest, Denise lassalle & Nolan just like the weather- love rep plus some others inc screaming jay Hawkins with a northern type backing track.  Great tapes with radio jingles between tracks  cheers

[Cheltsoulnights]

Played and massive at Yate by Ian Clark?

L Allen at the time Larrys showed up shortly after

Played for a short time a Wigan but didnt catch on

then Stafford

thats in my circle of visits

weird thing is

a lot of the Larry copies had been played to death in the states and ruined

[Chris Turnbull]

2 hours ago, CheltSoulNights said:

Played and massive at Yate by Ian Clark?

L Allen at the time Larrys showed up shortly after

Played for a short time a Wigan but didnt catch on

then Stafford

thats in my circle of visits

weird thing is

a lot of the Larry copies had been played to death in the states and ruined

Good info, thanks 

Surprised it didn't catch on at Wigan 

[Okehdownsouth]

The first time I ever heard this was at YATE! and as I stopped going to all nighters in 1979 I would guess that it was late 77 or early 79. Might be worth asking Dave Greet if anyone has his email address.

 

[Tlscapital]

On 17 mai 2016 at 10:34, Dave Thorley said:

The Label was owned by the same guy that owned Jeree records, Jerry Reed. The studio was still open up until a few years ago and you could walk in and just chat to Jerry and the other guys there. The studio was a contract studio, where they would record anyone that walked in the door and paid their money. As part of the deal they could arrange records to be pressed or just put it out on the Jeree label.

 

 

That's it; to me it sounds like a vanity record. It's so kitch, unperfected (the budget did the time-out = no more takes) and so full of it; it's northern soul in the making. I loved it since the first moment I discovered and bought it ! It's kind of an "out" sound by todays "taste" or trend, I love it even more. I always nod and agreed as understood those who could never stand the song though.

[Tlscapital]

On 17 mai 2016 at 21:11, Winsford Soul said:

Chris. The Larry Allen is a lot less common than the L Allen release , it was always about £50 more expensive. Maybe even more in these mad price times

Steve

Not in my book really, even PoopSh*te shows 7 to 10 in evilBay history... only a tad rarer and not much different to my eyes.

Edited August 7, 2016 by tlscapital

[Carty]

On 6/5/2016 at 15:33, Chris Turnbull said:

Good info, thanks 

Surprised it didn't catch on at Wigan 

It was massive at Wigan at some point , maybe early 80, can hear it now , the bell like instrumentation booming around the place .  

[Tlscapital]

On 18 mai 2016 at 09:33, chalky said:

What is in the deadwax of the respective releases, L Allen and Larry. 

my L. ALLEN reads G&C - 115 - B and G&C - 115 - A PARADISE

[Samplat]

My Larry Allen reads exactly the same

[Tlscapital]

2 hours ago, samplat said:

My Larry Allen reads exactly the same

They were pressed at the same pressing plant for sure. Also using the same press masters then. But which one was first ? And why L. ALLEN became Larry ALLEN and not Leonard as his real name apparently was ?

[Chalky]

On 9 August 2016 at 13:52, tlscapital said:

They were pressed at the same pressing plant for sure. Also using the same press masters then. But which one was first ? And why L. ALLEN became Larry ALLEN and not Leonard as his real name apparently was ?

It would appear L. Allen was first.  I wonder when the Larry Allen were pressed.  How long after the first press? I wonder if he pressed them after contact with a dealer/collector from the UK and tried to earn a few bucks? He wouldn't be the first.  Anyone ever compared the discs side by side, paper, vinyl etc?

I remember at Peterborough one night some kid came in with a box, everything a quid, this was in there alongside some other rarities.  Think he had been away for a while from the scene.

[Dave65]

Remember it being massive at Clouds in Edinburgh where it was spun by Jolly. Still love it to this day. The simple piano intro with a slightly haunting reverb before the drums & organ kick in then "Hold me, hold me in your arms" awesome and brings back amazing memories. 

[Cheltsoulnights]

On 07/08/2016 at 17:07, carty said:

It was massive at Wigan at some point , maybe early 80, can hear it now , the bell like instrumentation booming around the place .  

Yate tune then Stafford 

I went to Wigan every 2 weeks

Never caught on

Played only a few times. Wigan not ready for it

[Cheltsoulnights]

13 hours ago, chalky said:

It would appear L. Allen was first.  I wonder when the Larry Allen were pressed.  How long after the first press? I wonder if he pressed them after contact with a dealer/collector from the UK and tried to earn a few bucks? He wouldn't be the first.  Anyone ever compared the discs side by side, paper, vinyl etc?

I remember at Peterborough one night some kid came in with a box, everything a quid, this was in there alongside some other rarities.  Think he had been away for a while from the scene.

L allen first

Then Larry allen not long after and thought to be rarer at the time

But in hindsight L allen first issue but Larry Allen a local hit. thats why most are worn out

[Chalky]

I would have thought the first run was the hit to warrant a second press! Unless the second was done to satisfy or cash in on the UK NS scene?

Also Jerry Reed has told Uk collectors he didn't press the Larry Allen but someone with access to the masters clearly did.  When and why?

Edited August 11, 2016 by chalky

[Carty]

On 6/5/2016 at 15:33, Chris Turnbull said:

Good info, thanks 

Surprised it didn't catch on at Wigan 

It was massive at Wigan at some point , maybe early 80, can hear it now , the bell like instrumentation booming around the place .  maybe 

[Carty]

Pete , i have to disagree with you there , The record was played  around three three times a night  for months at the Saturday All Nighters  , fairly sure Rushbrooke played it . It was not a Searling spin  at the time as it was not exclusive enough .     I  went to   almost all the Wigan all nighters around this time. Bought a copy of this for £ 25.00 from Rod or Dave who had found four copies mid 1980. unfortunately sold it shortly after for a similar amount .

[Cheltsoulnights]

I went to wigan oldies First Friday

Then Yate the next week

Then ran a coach to Wigan on the 3rd Saturday

Then Yate

Wigan closed Leicester Morecambe and Stafford uplifted

L allen not really a Wigan tune

I have no memories of Gary playing at Wigan?

if was definitely a later tune

[Md Records]

In Pittsburgh a couple of days ago, the general consensus from the local record guys was that this got AirPlay for a couple of weeks then disappeared - Not really a local "hit". Two runs on the label could just be over enthusiasm on the label owners part?

Des

[Steviehay]

Heard this at Wigan loads of times,never went to yate ,went to cleethorpes once ,defo wasn't a richard spin ,also bought mine of dave £20 though I have the L copy no difference at all with the other copy 

[Steve Foran]

On 19/08/2016 at 05:30, Md Records said:

In Pittsburgh a couple of days ago, the general consensus from the local record guys was that this got AirPlay for a couple of weeks then disappeared - Not really a local "hit". Two runs on the label could just be over enthusiasm on the label owners part?

Des

A story I heard was that L Allen was first. It was then redone as Larry Allen for a reason? If you notice the green is differing shades on either version and John Manship thought this was simply a case of not being able source the same ink. This would fit in with the earlier post saying it may have been recut by someone other than the original label owner using the original plates? MAYBE?