Popular Post Chris Turnbull Posted March 24, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 24, 2016 Just been pondering in an idle moment, if someone did a Crossover Top 500 Poll (OK maybe 500 a tall order, so say 100) based on what have been the biggest, most played, most influential, most loved, etc, crossover tunes of the last 25 years (since it kind of took off as a sub-genre in its own right) what would be in it? If Frank Wilson is number one in the mythical Northern Soul top 500, what would be the crossover equivalent? Admittedly 'crossover' as a term can be hard to pin down, one man's crossover being another man's beat ballad, etc, but sticking to crossover in the broad sense of the late 60's - early 70's period between the classic 'on the fours' sixties sound and early modern soul / disco, what would people say have been the biggest and best? Twenty from me for starters, roughly in order as above:- Constellations - I don't know about you (Gemini Star) Jackie Wilson - Because of you (Brunswick) Ruby Andrews - Just loving you (Zodiac) Unique Blend - Yes I'm in love (Eastbound) Margie Joseph - One more chance (Volt) George Hughley - That's why I cry (Buddah) Bobby Reed - The time is right for love (Bell) Chuck Cockerham - Have I got a right (Mala) Willie Pickett - On the stage of life (Eastern) Virgil Henry - You ain't saying nothing new (Collossus) Ty Karim - Lightin' up (Romark) Willie Tee - First taste of hurt (Gatur) Milton Parker - Women like it harder (Closet) Richard Caiton - I like to get near you (Uptite) Guitar Ray - You're gonna wreck my life (Shagg) Just Bros - Go on and laugh (Butch) Natural Four - Hanging on to a lie (Boola Boola) The Differences - Five Minutes (Mon-ca) Sonny Til - Tears & Misery (RCA) Willie Hutch - Let's try it over again (RCA) John Edwards or James Phelps - The look on your face (Bell / Apache) Would make a great podcast Cheers, Chris. 6
Popular Post Tricky Posted March 24, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 24, 2016 I was just about to say Chris had got the ethos of Crossover spot on with a good selection to start off with.IMO i would not put Buddy Smith as crossover.Great 60,s Detroit beat ballad that it is. 6
Tricky Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Hope that reply didnt look like i was having a dig at Peter.I wasnt.Just that there is a difference in peoples understanding of Crossover and this is shown in the first two replies.It can be a minefield. Trev 1
Kev John Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Emotions - I Love You But I'll Leave You - Twin Stacks Edited March 25, 2016 by Kev John 1
Pga1 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Hiya, would have to include 'William bell- man in the street for starters. Cheers 2
Kev John Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TRICKY said: I was just about to say Chris had got the ethos of Crossover spot on with a good selection to start off with.IMO i would not put Buddy Smith as crossover.Great 60,s Detroit beat ballad that it is. Trev I'd would call this Crossover atb Kev Edited March 24, 2016 by Kev John 1
Peter99 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, TRICKY said: Hope that reply didnt look like i was having a dig at Peter.I wasnt.Just that there is a difference in peoples understanding of Crossover and this is shown in the first two replies.It can be a minefield. Trev No problem Ricky. Bleads into crossover for me. 2
Tricky Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Point accepted. In the middle of said minefield Trev 1
Chris Turnbull Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 Wouldn't have thought of Buddy Smith but do love it Forgot about Darrell Banks 'I'm the one who loves you' (Volt) which would have to be well up there 3
Guest woody1971 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 I wouldn't put buddy smith in the x-over bracket either 3 from me philharmonics-I need,i need your love celeste hardy-you're gone satin-you're loves got me
Dazz Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Number 1 for me Carl Hall - What about you on Columbia 2
Sjclement Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Here's two not been mentioned yet Bobby Sheen Somehting new to do Bettye Swann Kiss my love goodbye, There's 100s more I could list but a lot might not fit other's ideal, suffice to say that I collected northern soul in the 70's and was sometimes swayed by hearing or reading about a tune and buying it, knowing it would never be played at Wigan but it was good soul all the same (Bettye Swann for instance),these are what I refer to in my opinion as crossover. 2
Dave Thorley Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Chris Turnbull said: Just been pondering in an idle moment, if someone did a Crossover Top 500 Poll (OK maybe 500 a tall order, so say 100) based on what have been the biggest, most played, most influential, most loved, etc, crossover tunes of the last 25 years (since it kind of took off as a sub-genre in its own right) what would be in it? If Frank Wilson is number one in the mythical Northern Soul top 500, what would be the crossover equivalent? Admittedly 'crossover' as a term can be hard to pin down, one man's crossover being another man's beat ballad, etc, but sticking to crossover in the broad sense of the late 60's - early 70's period between the classic 'on the fours' sixties sound and early modern soul / disco, what would people say have been the biggest and best? Twenty from me for starters, roughly in order as above:- Constellations - I don't know about you (Gemini Star) Jackie Wilson - Because of you (Brunswick) Ruby Andrews - Just loving you (Zodiac) Unique Blend - Yes I'm in love (Eastbound) Margie Joseph - One more chance (Volt) George Hughley - That's why I cry (Buddah) Bobby Reed - The time is right for love (Bell) Chuck Cockerham - Have I got a right (Mala) Willie Pickett - On the stage of life (Eastern) Virgil Henry - You ain't saying nothing new (Collossus) Ty Karim - Lightin' up (Romark) Willie Tee - First taste of hurt (Gatur) Milton Parker - Women like it harder (Closet) Richard Caiton - I like to get near you (Uptite) Guitar Ray - You're gonna wreck my life (Shagg) Just Bros - Go on and laugh (Butch) Natural Four - Hanging on to a lie (Boola Boola) The Differences - Five Minutes (Mon-ca) Sonny Til - Tears & Misery (RCA) Willie Hutch - Let's try it over again (RCA) John Edwards or James Phelps - The look on your face (Bell / Apache) Would make a great podcast Cheers, Chris. Hi Chris It's an interesting question, but also as a couple of friends on mine in Germany have said on more than one occasion 'Why do the British need to make list of every thing ?" an equally good question. Also once a list is created, will that mean the prices of these will go through the roof as trophy hunters try to complete the set. Will you start to hear carbon copy sets at venues around the country as those DJ's with little imagination just pluck from the list ? Finally the worst out come, as some northern promoters already do, imagine walking up to the decks to start your set and some idiot promoter saying 'Top 100 records only please' That all said Johnny Gilliam - Room full of tears, has to be in there 2
Douglaschip Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 For me would want these in there: Willie Tee - Teasin' you again - Gatur Rhonda Davis - Can you remember - Duke Adam 1
Dave Thorley Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Just now, douglaschip said: For me would want these in there: Willie Tee - Teasin' you again - Gatur Rhonda Davis - Can you remember - Duke Adam And there Adam lies another problem, 'definition'. Rhonda Davis started life in the 70's being played at Yate and other venues as a northern record, It was C/U as Ann Sexton, long before the definition 'Crossover' was born. 2
Douglaschip Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Agreed Dave - but definately has the right sound to my ears. Probably lots of stuff that was played by the more inventive DJ's from 78 onwards is now classed as crossover - but started life as Northern - bloody complicated business this soul music lark eh!! Adam 1
Dave Thorley Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, douglaschip said: Agreed Dave - but definately has the right sound to my ears. Probably lots of stuff that was played by the more inventive DJ's from 78 onwards is now classed as crossover - but started life as Northern - bloody complicated business this soul music lark eh!! Adam Yes was getting played back in 77 C/U Edited March 24, 2016 by Dave Thorley
Guest Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) A lot of those records on the list are great, but I would consider them to be part of Northern Soul! Crossover to me means a section/style of Northern Soul, and not a seperate thing. Edited March 24, 2016 by Guest
Hill868 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 No real point in labelling some sounds as Crossover these days, many different and slower tracks from various decades of sounds played alongside more traditional faster things. Surely if its good, soul and danceable, it dosen't really need a sub-category !?
Steve G Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Flowers For real - the most overplayed of them all 3
Dave Thorley Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 17 minutes ago, Steve G said: Flowers For real - the most overplayed of them all But surly that is a modern soul track 2
Popular Post Speedlimit Posted March 24, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Norris Vines " give in " has to be up there Edited March 24, 2016 by speedlimit 4
Still Diggin Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Crossover was the very genre created from ' no mans land', and gave the soul scene a much needed boost. Rare records like psychedelic Frankie 'Put me out of your life' lived together with the more regular Jesse James 'If you want a love affair' (which was massive by the late 80s) lived together on a great scene. But for me Bobby Dukes 'Just to be with you' defined the genre not very rare, but held that busy arrangement within that midtempo beat, topped of by that fantastic vocal. Pam Bowies 'He's all I Need' on Aquarious gets me every time. Great choices from previous posts, although many leaning towards the northern side of things. As for a top 500, i'm sure that could be done just out of lp tracks. 1
Chris Turnbull Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Dave Thorley said: Hi Chris It's an interesting question, but also as a couple of friends on mine in Germany have said on more than one occasion 'Why do the British need to make list of every thing ?" an equally good question. Also once a list is created, will that mean the prices of these will go through the roof as trophy hunters try to complete the set. Will you start to hear carbon copy sets at venues around the country as those DJ's with little imagination just pluck from the list ? Finally the worst out come, as some northern promoters already do, imagine walking up to the decks to start your set and some idiot promoter saying 'Top 100 records only please' That all said Johnny Gilliam - Room full of tears, has to be in there Fair points Dave - hadn't thought of any of this. Where would we be without a list though Wouldn't have thought of Room full of tears but do love it - also 'Baby take me back' on Modern of course 1
Chalky Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Buddy Smith isn't crossover IMO, nor Ruby Andrews or Flowers and a fair few of the other tracks mentioned as I would just class them as 60s or 70s. But as Dave said many were around before the term came into being. But over the years the term crossover has simply evolved into anything of a similar tempo regardless of the year. Some great records mentioned though. 1
Chris Turnbull Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 1 hour ago, solidsoul said: A lot of those records on the list are great, but I would consider them to be part of Northern Soul! Crossover to me means a section/style of Northern Soul, and not a seperate thing. 1 hour ago, HILL868 said: No real point in labelling some sounds as Crossover these days, many different and slower tracks from various decades of sounds played alongside more traditional faster things. Surely if its good, soul and danceable, it dosen't really need a sub-category !? It's been a widely used sub-category for many years now, and to be fair when someone says a record is 'crossover' you have a good idea what to expect in terms of rhythm and style - usually quite different from typical northern or modern soul, so for me it justifies the tag
Chris Turnbull Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 Look forward to checking out a couple of the recommendations that I don't know - thanks folks Bobby Dukes one of my faves Forgot about Fantastics 'Where there's a will' (Impresario) - sold in a weak moment and regretted ever since Also a few more that spring to mind - George Wilson 'Here stands the man who needs you (Black Circle), Buddy Ace 'Pleasing you' (Paula), Hesitations 'Is this the way to treat a girl' (GWP), Nate Adams 'Why is it taking so long' (Atlantic), various versions of Colour him Father (either The Winstons or O C Smith's storming LP only version for me), and Charlie Hodges 'Loving you is beautiful'(Calla) 3
Northernhearts Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Almeta Latimore these memories, Melvin Davis " you made me over" 1
Pga1 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Hiya, can we call this Motown crossover 'jimmy Ruffin- i'll never let you get away (sub genre- none American tamla 45rpm release groover) ps. Some seriously good tunes mentioned. Cheers 1
Peter99 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 9 minutes ago, Pga1 said: Hiya, can we call this Motown crossover 'jimmy Ruffin- i'll never let you get away (sub genre- none American tamla 45rpm release groover) ps. Some seriously good tunes mentioned. Cheers That's even worse than my attempt with Buddy Smith!
Soulfinger Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Never really understood the crossover nomenclature. Lots of tunes I love listed above but not sure why they are classified as crossover. So......trying to work out what might catch the label. What about: Denise Lasalle - Here I am Again Anne Peebles - If this is Heaven Bobby McClure - Was it Something I Said? And why would they be crossover rather than modern soul? Genuine question!
Peter99 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 How about Quiet Elegance - or is this just Southern Soul? Whatever label you want to stick on it it's a fantastic soul record. 1
arnie j Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) richard caiton-id like to get near you has deffo got to be up there,totally agree ith guitar ray,johnny gilliam etc,there thouands of them,what a wonderful genre for us to enjoy,ps i also strongly agree with margie joseph-one more chance on volt, edited to include spencer wiggins-im at the breaking point ! incredible record ! jason Edited March 24, 2016 by arnie j
Chris Turnbull Posted March 25, 2016 Author Posted March 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Soulfinger said: Never really understood the crossover nomenclature. Lots of tunes I love listed above but not sure why they are classified as crossover. So......trying to work out what might catch the label. What about: Denise Lasalle - Here I am Again Anne Peebles - If this is Heaven Bobby McClure - Was it Something I Said? And why would they be crossover rather than modern soul? Genuine question! It's the bit between 60's and 70's soul i.e. 1968 - 1972. The three you mention IMO are more like early modern soul, too smooth and too late to be crossover. Turn of the decade stuff like Sonny Til 'Tears & Misery' or Elvin Spencer 'Lift this hurt' (Winner version) are much more what I would call classic examples of the genre, with that slightly jerky, funky beat common to a lot of the great crossover tunes. 3
Triode Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 One from me that sort of typifies the genre' Darrel Banks - I'm the one who loves you - Stax?
Tricky Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Right I think Chris Turnbull has it spot on.Crossover is the transitional period of Soul culminating in more sophistication some of which was played before the term became popular.However i would go so far as to say that some of my choices may be 67 to 73.My threepenybittwobobsworth would be the likes of, Kittie Doswell - Face in the crowd Nathan Williams - What price Jaqueline Jones - Frown on my face Girls - Mark my words Jo Armstead - Theres not too many more Lovations - Later baby Reggie Soul - My world of ecstacy. Primbrock Skiggs - That was yesterday James Shorter - Modern day woman Patti Ward - Girls you have to wait for love El Shobey - Never missed what you got Delilah Moore - Ill just walk away Most of Bridges Knight Eatons output falls into Crossover territory as does a lot of the West Coast stuff under the Delanier / Hangra banner like All my good loving,elevater song,love cant be modernised.Likewise with Johnny Camerons and Clarence Glovers stuff out of Chicago. Sorry im rambling now but its 4am and i cant sleep. Tricky 2
Louise Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Due to the current euphoria regarding the effervescent Gorgeous George Odell how about this previously un-issued forgotten crossover gem. Gorgeous George "You Can't Stop A Woman" Grapevine 159 the only way you can get it on vinyl and a record that still has plenty legs in it. Dave 1
Steve L Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 4 hours ago, TRICKY said: Right I think Chris Turnbull has it spot on.Crossover is the transitional period of Soul culminating in more sophistication some of which was played before the term became popular.However i would go so far as to say that some of my choices may be 67 to 73. Tricky Agree completely, jesus - people have to make hard work of things sometimes... 1
Sjclement Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Picking some comments out "jerky funky beat", "67-73" then perhaps the 1st crossover record was the Carstairs It really hurts me girl? 1
Lfcjunkie Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) I'd say this is a classic example of different opinions on 'crossover'..i'd say this is 70's soul Carstairs 'hurts me girl'...as its more 'polished' ..imo..same with Bettye Swann 'kiss my love...'two examples of crossover that we was listening to (before the term was coined ) that was accepted as Northern Soul are ..James Fountain '7 day lover' & Ann Sexton 'been gone too long'...classic examples to me .....how about Justice Dept..'Come Back(to these empty arms)Fairplay Rec....one of my favourites if not already mentioned...along with George Perkins 'I'm so glad your'e mine'...George Jackson 'I found what i wanted'....there's thousands out there.. Dave L Edited March 25, 2016 by lfcjunkie addition 2
Guest Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Crossover is a term to discribe a record that fits into both Northern Soul and Modern Soul, hence the word crossover. It's not a new music scene!
Chris Turnbull Posted March 25, 2016 Author Posted March 25, 2016 My original point was a poll of top crossover tunes of say the last 25 years (effectively since people started using the term crossover to define that the sound of that particular small era) - the biggest, most played, most loved, etc. I know there are thousands out there but which have been the biggest? A couple more good examples for me would be Stratoliners 'What do you want with my love' (Federal) which was massive for Butch for a time, or Ella Woods 'I need your love' (Merging), big everywhere for a while NB. who did coin the phrase 'crossover soul' - Rod Dearlove in Voices? 1
Dave Thorley Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 I first heard the term at Stafford, not to say that was the only place using it at the time, but does go right back to the early 80's. This was one that the term was attached to ............................
Chris Turnbull Posted March 25, 2016 Author Posted March 25, 2016 21 minutes ago, solidsoul said: Crossover is a term to discribe a record that fits into both Northern Soul and Modern Soul, hence the word crossover. It's not a new music scene! That's really interesting as I always took it to mean the crossover between the 1960's and 1970's, therefore records from that short period with their distinctive sound. Most of the records we have listed weren't played much, if at all, until the early 90's onwards. At that time with venues like Canal Tavern at the forefront I did see it as a new music scene (albeit under the umbrella of the northern and modern scenes) which then expanded with a whole load of 'across the board' venues like Pitches. 22 minutes ago, Chris Turnbull said: A couple more good examples for me would be Stratoliners 'What do you want with my love' (Federal) which was massive for Butch for a time, or Ella Woods 'I need your love' (Merging), big everywhere for a while Or Rhetta Hughes 'Cry myself to sleep' (Tetragrammaton) which of course was a huge play for Roger Banks late 90's
Tricky Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 (Crossover is a term to discribe a record that fits into both Northern Soul and Modern Soul, hence the word crossover.) I utterly and completely disagree.This is where the confusion comes from.It has nothing to do with where it was played. Tricky 1
Guest Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 22 minutes ago, TRICKY said: (Crossover is a term to discribe a record that fits into both Northern Soul and Modern Soul, hence the word crossover.) I utterly and completely disagree.This is where the confusion comes from.It has nothing to do with where it was played. Tricky Well I'm sorry but after 45 years of following Northern Soul/Modern Soul without a break, I can tell you this were the term came from. We needed something to describe a record/sound that could sort of fit into both scenes! Crossover! It has nothing to do with dates, as a 60's or 80's record can be described as Crossover.
Kegsy Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, solidsoul said: Well I'm sorry but after 45 years of following Northern Soul/Modern Soul without a break, I can tell you this were the term came from. We needed something to describe a record/sound that could sort of fit into both scenes! Crossover! It has nothing to do with dates, as a 60's or 80's record can be described as Crossover. But did they cross from Modern to Northern or Northern to Modern or did some swing both ways ??
Guest Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Kegsy said: But did they cross from Modern to Northern or Northern to Modern or did some swing both ways ?? Both ways.
Tricky Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 8O,S RECORDS Crossover really!! Not having it. Will bow out now because pointless arguing the toss. Quite a lot of years on the Soul Scene. Tricky 1
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