The whole chestnut of vinyl versus CDs goes up a notch...

I was speaking to a pal the other day who said that a couple of DJs at an event have recently played songs from their laptop PCs rather than a record box. Until I check out the facts I can't name the venue or DJ.

Anyway... To see how easy it was to do this, we tried this at home using the 1000 odd tracks at our fingertips through souclub.org. With a bit of chat between records (as they buffer in) - it's very very easy to do.

I just want to know if members would happily attend Soul events knowing that Djs are playing tracks they've downloaded (with no way of the punters knowing if these records are from their personal collections or have just been grabbed from someone else's collection on the internet).

For the record - I wouldn't unless entry was free (or it was wedding reception)

  Kolla said:

The whole chestnut of vinyl versus CDs goes up a notch...

I was speaking to a pal the other day who said that a couple of DJs at an event have recently played songs from  their laptop PCs rather than a record box.  Until I check out the facts I can't name the venue or DJ. 

Anyway... To see how easy it was to do this,  we tried this at home using the 1000 odd tracks at our fingertips through souclub.org.  With a bit of chat between records (as they buffer in) - it's very very easy to do.

I just want to know if members would happily  attend Soul events knowing that Djs are playing tracks they've downloaded (with no way of the punters knowing if these records are from their personal collections or have just been grabbed from someone else's collection on the internet). 

  For the record - I wouldn't unless entry was free (or it was wedding reception)

link

Some dance dj's use laptops apparently.

Also if you use Jetaudio with the updates it will fade in and fade out tracks for you as you open each new track

  chalky said:

Also if you use Jetaudio with the updates it will fade in and fade out tracks for you

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Do you get commission from JetAudio, Chalkster LOL

Actually I didn't know JA could do that - might have ago later on... purely for home use of course

When we did the last Morden, we had problems with the venue, they forgot to put us in there diary so with a couple of phone calls and a lot of stress we found a pub that would have us after the Crystal palace match ended.. They had gear all set up but no decks.. we only had one with us (venue at morden had decks fitted in so we never needed our own, just a spare in case) anyway the landlord of the pub said we could use he's laptop as it had 5000 downloads in it

(notice I never called them records as it would have to be a big laptop to fit all them in )

But even though it was there, and all you had to do was press a button..

all the dj's said they would rather talk between the records and use one deck and no cueing in - than use the laptop.

  Kolla said:

Do you get commission from JetAudio, Chalkster LOL 

Actually I didn't know JA could do that - might have ago later on... purely for home use of course   

link

Loads of those progs do that mate, the best of the lot is called OTS-DJ, it's very expensive (about 200 quid to buy, or free from me) but it does everything including making the coffee and warming up your slippers. You can set Atomixmp3-dj to fade as well, free download usually.

Played around with some of dj software and can do all sorts of stuff with it, have heard of one "known" person doing it once

and sure a lot of these hobby radio shows you get, are already done along similar lines

remember a similar discussion in modern world about using cdrs, someone said "of course we have all the original cds at home" ....

Other concept (did i read it on here) ipod nights - where all crowd bring in a ipod each with 3 or 5 tracks and each one gets played

  Kolla said:

Do you get commission from JetAudio, Chalkster LOL 

Actually I didn't know JA could do that - might have ago later on... purely for home use of course   

link

I wish I did Kolla. Not very often I stick with an audio player but I've found nothing better IMO.

I've a link for the upgrade (free of course ) will dig it out

  Pete-S said:

Loads of those progs do that mate, the best of the lot is called OTS-DJ, it's very expensive (about 200 quid to buy, or free from me) but it does everything including making the coffee and warming up your slippers.  You can set Atomixmp3-dj to fade as well, free download usually.

link

I know there's loads Pete but Jet audio is just a basic player not a mixer program or anything like that.

How big is the OTS-DJ? send away if you like, I'm on broadband

In previous forum discussions the overall consensus was that playing unissued records of offically released CDs or LPs were fine in certain situations.

However, playing downloaded songs is a different ball game. Where do you draw the line?

Thirst for vinyl has kept this scene alive for years and the fact that you can now download whatever you want and make up a 45 min set at minimum cost and minimum effort then get paid as much as the vinyl playing DJ is a travesty.

On a lighter note - another moral dilemma! Shall I change the topic title to "Laptop Dancing" so we can get more hits ?

throw in below as well

and it just gets even more blurry

don't forget can now buy many offical released tracks online as well

(which does make sense as its cheaper to buy one track for 1.99 rather than a 9.99 cd for one track )

Went to a local bar a couple of years ago for a Sunday afternoon piss up - not a soul thing, one of those do's when everyone gets totally ripped and sings along to Oasis numbers. Anyway, the DJ stood in a corner with a Mac and a headset and DJ'd off that. I found it a bit clinical but I guess its practical if nothing else. Can't see it working in a soul environment, even on the modern side where CD's are acceptable (often the only format the music is released on). We are too traditional.

  chalky said:

I know there's loads Pete but Jet audio is just a basic player not a mixer program or anything like that.

How big is the OTS-DJ?  send away if you like, I'm on broadband 

link

I think OTS is actually a program for scheduling your own radio station mate...but I just used the bit where I loaded up 50 tracks and let it dj itself..

Link here

ots dj

actually it retails at $300!

Think we have been here before Kolla, but the answer to your question is NO,NO,NO. Went to a local club a while back and was early (Ok i like a beer...anyone got a problem with that ) the guys were setting up and i noticed a problem, so i asked what was wrong, the fellow (throughly nice chap) told me that the CD deck had gone down.........."Well after i confirmed that the carpet in the bar area was indeed Axeminster" , i decided that i didn't really want to attend an event that played CD's, even though they also played vinyl to be fair.

So it is a big NO for me.

Yours Brett

I don't think this is really an issue. The downloads available from Soul Club, and ktf download for that matter, cannot compare in sound quality to a record or cd, can they? There is a big difference between how they sound and how records or cds sound. Now something that was ripped from a record would be another matter. But there we would be out of the realm of morality and into the realm of aesthetics,

  Pete-S said:

I think OTS is actually a program for scheduling your own radio station mate...but I just used the bit where I loaded up 50 tracks and let it dj itself..

Link here

ots dj

actually it retails at $300!

link

Cheers Pete, just been on suprnova. Cannot find is all i get. I think it's gone for the subscription option :angry:

When I go to soul nights I always dance towards the back of the floor away from the DJ or stage.

Most of the time I cannot see whether the song is on vinyl, cd or the the back of a fag packet.

I think playing from a laptop is going too far but generally I am not bothered whether it is a boot, original or acetate.

I know this is sacrilege and I accept all the arguments about me enjoying myself on the back of those who have searched out new sounds for the benefit of all of us but unless you are a DJ or record collector it is hard to get worked up about it.

Please don`t hate me for being honest as I suspect there are many who feel the same way.

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

  fenman said:

I think playing from a laptop is going too far but generally I am not bothered whether it is a boot, original or acetate.

I know this is sacrilege and I accept all the arguments about me enjoying myself on the back of those who have searched out new sounds for the benefit of all of us but unless you are a DJ or record collector it is hard to get worked up about it.

Please don`t hate me for being honest as I suspect there are many who feel the same way.

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

link

Fenman, i undestand your desire on a purely listening level, but come on my good man, the whole rare soul scene has been built on the playing/collecting and dancing to of original vinyl records, if we lose that, then our very esoteric identity is lost and we then belong in the mainstream. God help us if this ever happens (i am certain it will not) can you imagine some spotty entrepreneur going to Safeway and picking up some godforsaken "Wigan Volume 58" and deciding that he also can get in on the act, no way my friend too many people have given up too much to bring all these wonderful tracks to our shores, surely that must be apparent, this music is not to be taken lightly we are not "Mainstream" thank God for that.

Brett

Edited November 20, 200420 yr by Brett

like fenman .... when i'm out a club my first prority is that i want to hear decent music and i don't go nosing around the decks to see if its a computer, cd's or vinyl decks.

when playing i like to use vinyl myself ........ favourite labels .. boot ... sos ... eric ....

It doesn't bother me at all. Just love the music man.

if i travelled 100 plus miles, paid over best part of a tenner and for my efforts got 4 hours of some clown with a laptop playing stuff that can get off the net

...... wouldn't be happy about it

fair enough at local niteclub but we're not on about that are we?

In reply to Hipshaker 05 ... Have you never been anywhere where you've heard something for the first time and thought ... wow - got to find out what that is, who is it, what's the label... Only last month Dave G played something at Crossfire I'd never heard and after he'd played it, handed the disc to Al to look at... not really the same when someone shows you their screen and it's called track 0691 - is it Maybe Ali you're right.. we're too traditional

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There probably aren't any promoters logged on this Saturday evening, so a question for Sunday brunch time ....

Would you as a PROMOTER consider it fine to employ a laptop DJ ? And if so, why? Sorry for all the questions but i'm vexed by this topic. If I can understand why some find it acceptable then maybe I wouldn't be so annoyed about it

  Kolla said:

In reply to Hipshaker 05 ... Have you never been anywhere where you've heard something for the first time and thought ... wow - got to find out what that is, who is it, what's the label...  Only last month Dave G  played something at Crossfire I'd never heard and after he'd played it, handed the disc to Al to look at... not really the same when someone shows you their screen and it's called track 0691 - is it      Maybe Ali you're right.. we're too traditional 

------------------------------------------------------------------

There probably aren't any promoters logged on this Saturday evening,  so a question for Sunday brunch time ....

Would you as a PROMOTER consider it fine to employ a laptop DJ ?  And if so, why? Sorry for all the questions but i'm vexed by this topic. If I can understand why some find it acceptable then maybe I wouldn't be so annoyed  about it

link

When I said we are too traditional, I mean that as a good thing obviously Nothing wrong with being a luddite or a traditionalist especially when it comes to old soul.

The bar I went to when the DJ played a computerised set was absolutely tiny, and packed to the rafters so I guess it was appropriate, but the personal element was lost. Even though he was speaking into the headset, it was a disembodied voice - you might as well have been listening to the radio. But in that environment it didn't matter - folks were just out for a piss up and a sing song.

I can't see this method ever being an acceptable option for the rare soul community.

  alison said:

When I said we are too traditional, I mean that as a good thing obviously  Nothing wrong with being a luddite or a traditionalist especially when it comes to old soul.

The bar I went to when the DJ played a computerised set was absolutely tiny, and packed to the rafters so I guess it was appropriate, but the personal element was lost. Even though he was speaking into the headset, it was a disembodied voice - you might as well have been listening to the radio. But in that environment it didn't matter - folks were just out for a piss up and a sing song.

I can't see this method ever being an acceptable option for the rare soul community.

link

No doubt there are some people out there who wouldn't bat an eyelid at this intoduction of modern technology, but yep me big luddite too, to scary for me, find my self reaching for stiff drink........

Computer says no...... (COUGH!)

WOOF!

  pikeys dog said:

Computer says no...... (COUGH!)

WOOF!

link

My computer says no also, Little britain strikes again.......

  Brett said:

Fenman, i undestand your desire on a purely listening level, but come on my good man, the whole rare soul scene has been built on the playing/collecting and dancing to of original vinyl records, if we lose that, then our very esoteric identity is lost and we then belong in the mainstream. God help us if this ever happens (i am certain it will not) can you imagine some spotty entrepreneur going to Safeway and picking up some godforsaken "Wigan Volume 58" and deciding that he also can get in on the act, no way my friend too many people have given up too much to bring all these wonderful tracks to our shores, surely that must be apparent, this music is not to be taken lightly we are not "Mainstream" thank God for that.

Brett

link

On reflection you are 100% right Brett.

Of course we need to keep our scene pure as that is the thing that sets us apart from the rest.

I was feeling pissed off earlier as my lads footie team had lost a very close match.

Hope no one was offended.

Imagine the scene 20 years on, ebay item:

Super rarity found, I of only 4 Known laptops with track ??????? (can't even give a track number as it will be different on the other Laptops) long lost music file found in dusty desk. I know it's only on the DELL INSPIRON 510 which is a later model than the original.

Musically there will be no rarities in the future as they will all be made up of 1's and 0's if it goes totally computerised. Everyone will be able to own any track they like as long as it's downloadable.

Could you imagine a Do with the music played on computer?

The So-Called DJ wouldn't get requests for music, but more requests for checking emails, last minute bids on Ebay and to post up angry rants about computers used at Do's on the Soul-Source forum!

Maybe the sound quality might be better? Some northern soul dos I've been to, the sound quality has been awful.

  Kolla said:

In reply to Hipshaker 05 ... Have you never been anywhere where you've heard something for the first time and thought ... wow - got to find out what that is, who is it, what's the label...  Only last month Dave G  played something at Crossfire I'd never heard and after he'd played it, handed the disc to Al to look at... not really the same when someone shows you their screen and it's called track 0691 - is it      Maybe Ali you're right.. we're too traditional 

------------------------------------------------------------------

There probably aren't any promoters logged on this Saturday evening,  so a question for Sunday brunch time ....

Would you as a PROMOTER consider it fine to employ a laptop DJ ?  And if so, why? Sorry for all the questions but i'm vexed by this topic. If I can understand why some find it acceptable then maybe I wouldn't be so annoyed  about it

link

I certainly have Kolla ...... and understand what you say. My point is only, that when I'm out at a club I don't tend to concern myself with format but I'm more concerned about quality and selection of tracks ..... like many people are I'm sure.

When I DJ it is vinyl for me. I like the physical aspect of it that even a CD doesn't have let alone a laptop.

As for the question directed at promoters about laptop DJ's ......... I'm not sure really. I'd be interested in seeing it done. In our 6 years of running Hipshaker we've only ever had Guest DJ's playing vinyl except for Paul Tunkin from Blow Up who wanted to play some pre release tracks on CD's being put out by his label. No-one in the crowd noticed.

We don't let Guest DJ's use microphones in Portsmouth though ...... as Pete Tebbutt found out to his horror the other night

  Quote

I certainly have Kolla ...... and understand what you say. My point is only, that when I'm out at a club I don't tend to concern myself with format but I'm more concerned about quality and selection of tracks ..... like many people are I'm sure.

When I DJ it is vinyl for me. I like the physical aspect of it that even a CD doesn't have let alone a laptop.

This arguement crops up in all topics discussed I think

On a scene that is basically based purely on records, then if the DJ can't use these in their original format then IMO he (or she) shouldn't be up there. The are many out there who can do it properly and would do so given the chance.

Anyone can DJ with cds, audio files etc and I don't tend to go dashing to the decks to see if its genuine or not, but I want to see and hear those who do it properly.

i think i sort of agree chalky, hence i use vinyl myself ................ its just that i don't specifically concern myself about it when out.

Edited November 21, 200420 yr by hipshaker 05

  hipshaker 05 said:

i think i sort of agree chalky, hence i use vinyl myself ................ its just that i don't specifically concern myself about it when out.

link

Neither do I to be honest when out. But having said that most of the venues I go to the DJ's are usually doing it the way it should be, origianl format. Only time I usually go tot the decks is to find out something I don't know.

Is playing of a cd really any different to playing a 45 copied from a cd?

  Janine said:

Is playing of a cd really any different to playing a 45 copied from a cd?

link

yes, the needle just slides all over the cd...

  Janine said:

Is playing of a cd really any different to playing a 45 copied from a cd?

link

Shouldn't play either IMO unless it's unissued.

Edited November 21, 200420 yr by chalky

  chalky said:

Shouldn't play either IMO unless it's unissued.

link

hypothetically speaking now... if I had a cd with something on it that's let's say is 'unissued' then it would be ok for me to get a cut of it and play it out?

Good point Dave, although I think a cd on my Smurf's record player might have been OK

  Janine said:

hypothetically speaking now...  if I had a cd with something on it that's let's say is  'unissued' then it would be ok for me to get a cut of it and play it out?

link

Depends if you have permission from the source of said cd (IMHO). If the "unissued" track is being played by the person who gave you the cd then no IMO.

After years of try to explain The Northern Soul Scene to my non soul loving workmates , and the need to own obscure records and pay large sums of money for them, and that some are so rare that only 2 or 3 copys are known of, they can not get there heads around the fact that we play them at home and each time we do we are wearing them out. Let alone some people play these slices of plastic gold dust on some crap hired turn table with a stylus that is god knows how old

doing untold damage to it. And to this day I have not come up with a good reason not to use a laptop or CDRs for that matter. Apart from saying you are missing the point of it all. When you look at it from the outside it dont make sence

  chalky said:

Depends if you have permission from the source of said cd (IMHO).  If the "unissued" track is being played by the person who gave you the cd then no IMO.

link

Hmm hypothetically speaking again, what if the unissued stuff really didn't belong to them in the first place but they were just lucky to have it come into their possession one way or another, and they don't have any rights to the track, and the cd which you get and want to copy something off has changed hands a few times and not come directly from the source (which probably shouldn't have it either)

Does the immoral behaviour then lay with the person who copied it in the first place or the person who then copied it on again to someone who may go and put it onto a 45?

I really didn't want to steer this topic onto CDs as this has been covered several times in the last few months... as mentioned before ... concensus is that unissued CD tracks are ok in most circumstances.

It's because a DJ played "downloads" at a popular Northern Soul event this year that I brought up the question, and since the promoter was obviously fine with this - is this the way the scene is moving or are the majority of promoters sticking to their Northern's roots?

Kolla, I go out every weekend to 2 -3 do's up and down the country, and I think you will find that we are sticking to traditional roots on this one, although I don't pester every DJ on, I do most of them at one point or another, and have never myself seen anyone play from anything other than records (although some of the records are open to debate <_< )

How do you fit the Record into the laptop ?

  miff said:

After years of try to explain The Northern Soul Scene to my non soul loving workmates , and the need to own obscure records and pay large sums of money for them, and that some are so rare that only 2 or 3 copys are known of, they can not get there heads around the fact that we play them at home and each time we do we are wearing them out. Let alone some people play these slices of plastic gold dust on some crap hired turn table with a stylus that is god knows how old

doing untold damage to it. And to this day I have not come up with a good reason not to use a laptop or CDRs for that matter. Apart from saying you are missing the point of it all. When you look at it from the outside it dont make sence

link

WOW that sounds familiar, I have that same frustating discussion also