Motown Touring Bands

[Roburt]

Motown was always a very professional company, it did things the right way much of the time.

This even applied to the Motown touring bands that were sent out on the road with the company's acts. A quick run-down of the guys involved on Motown tours is as follows:-
The Joe Hunter Band (Hank Cosby, James Jamerson, Benny Benjamin, Mike Terry, etc -- basically the Funk Brothers) had gone out on tour behind Jackie Wilson for some of the summer of 1961 and they also toured behind Motown acts back then (the likes of the Miracles I guess). Popcorn Wylie & the Mohawks were also going out touring with Motown acts in 1961 and this seemed to go on at least till the end of that year if not into 1962.
Popcorn Wylie had signed to Epic as a solo artist in summer 62 and had 2 x 45's out for the label (the 1st in October 62 with the 2nd following in Feb 63). He did eventually return to Motown in the early 70's but no doubt he wasn't involved with Motown tours after 1961.
The Choker Campbell Band had taken over on Motown tours by summer 1962 and that outfit was still providing support to Motown review tours through to November 65. For a while an outfit went out on tour that was billed as the Motown Recording Band or just the Motortown Band but I have no real idea who led them & who made up their number.
Hamilton Bohannan had taken over the Motown touring band leading duties by 1967 and he seemed to stay in this position until 1972. Bohannon had started touring in 65 as drummer behind Stevie Wonder but had been promoted to lead the Motown Sound Band by 67.
Of course, some acts (Tempts, Miracles, 4 Tops) had their resident touring musician/s that went just about everywhere with them. Top acts were also granted special privileges, so at times in the late 60's, Earl Van Dyke & some of his guys would play on live shows backing the likes of Diana Ross (solo & with the Supremes). But most of the time, EVD & the Funk Bros were too busy in the studio to be allowed out on tour.

Anyone fill in the gaps in the above info. I know that the bands featured on Motown Live recordings are detailed on the LP's released but there is still much missing data. No doubt some of it has been detailed in books written by Motown artists (I seem to recall Mary Wilson writing a bit in her book about the guys in the tour bands that backed up the Supremes & other acts).

The Temptations (in the US) were Motown's top live act for many, many years and they had a regular line-up who played as 'the Temptations Big Big Band'. Who were the guys in this line-up ?

Edwin Starr, when he had his first hits, sourced many of his backing band members from his old stomping ground, Cleveland. Even when he was signed to Motown he used Cleveland guys but eventually he set on the band to back him up on live shows that evolved into Rose Royce. 

Of course, some outfits were self contained (Jnr Walker & All Stars and many 70's groups signed to the label such as the Commodores) and so didn't need a backing band. But the backing musicians played a major part in how Motown acts sounded, both in the studio & on tour, so just who did what & when ?

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Anyone know who toured backing up Marvin Gaye or other hot acts who cut for the label (Martha & V's, etc).

.... ALSO .... did 'signed-in established acts such as Gladys & the Pips, Isley Bros ever get assigned Motown backing bands to tour with OR did they just keep the people that had always toured with them ??

I know the likes of Ray Parker Jnr (& others who made it big in the 70's / 80's) started out as musicians backing Motown acts.

Did many Motown related musicians join up with H-D-H's new Invictus / Hot Wax set-up (the likes of Melvin Davis & McKinley Jackson come to mind).

I know EVD toured the UK in the 70's as lead musician backing up Freda Payne and the Tops had ex Motown related guys in their touring entourage long after they had quit Motown.  

Edited February 28, 2016 by Roburt

[Roburt]

I guess that Hamilton Bohannon must have worked with the likes of Carolyn Crawford & Liz Lands at Motown which is why he had them as lead vocalists in his band after he went solo & recorded in his own right. 

[Roburt]

Berry Gordy must have gotten EVD & the Funk Bros to back up his acts on these shows ......

.......  BUT THEN .... the venue was only a few minutes drive from the studios .... 

 

[Roburt]

Guess Johnny Talbot & his band / orchestra were one outfit used by Motown to back up their artists ......

[Roburt]

Seems Motown hired guys from all over to play in bands backing their acts ............... got this off the net .......

LARRY VANN -- My earliest performances started with the NAACP Talent Shows in the Oakland/San Francisco Bay Area where I lived. Through these shows, I was able to get my “chops” together by playing behind so many acts – there was a lot of time to prove ourselves, a lot of recognition and exposure to the up and coming Bay Area young talent.

Next, we played the Oakland clubs. We were able to get our feet wet with great R&B acts such as The Whispers, The Ballards, Marvin Holmes and the Uptights. We gained a lot of ground. It was a great time to learn and be on the scene – getting our feet wet with great R&B acts, the great talent in the area.

We played the big rooms in the area. One was the Continental Club in Oakland - they brought James Brown, Bobby Bland, Charles Brown; another was The Sportsman Club, one of the premier Black clubs in Oakland. Some of the artists they brought were Jerry Butler, The Impressions, and Major Lance. And history tells us that Billy Holiday also played there, but that was before my time, but still very interesting information. Another premier club in Oakland was the Showcase. Some of the artists they brought were Johnny Talbot and Johnny Hartsman. These were all premier “cats” in the area we had to gauge ourselves from and learn from. It was an important time in my musical growth.

In 1966 or ’67 I went on my first tour – it was with The Whispers. We were part of a “review”. I didn’t know it at the time, but I was able to be on the “Chitlin’ Circuit” right before it ended. Many of the clubs in the circuit unfortunately closed. At that time it was an incredible circuit. You could see some of the biggest names. While out on that tour, I met: Buddy Miles in Omaha, Nebraska at the Paul B. Allen Showcase; Sam and Dave – we opened for them in Buffalo, New York at the Dellwood Dance Hall. We almost starved a week before they came because something went wrong with the booking and we were there one week before they arrived, in the dead of winter. I also met Dike of Dike and the Blazers who did “Funky Broadway” down in Phoenix where he lived. He used to always come see us all the time when I was with The Whispers. This was an incredible tour for me, a big, big journey for me in my career. I learned and grew a lot, I learned a lot about life.

My work with Motown started in the late 60’s, working in the backup band for The Marvelettes. We got picked up to play in their backup band while they were in our area.

Also in the late 60’s, I was a part of the Temptations Review. We didn’t back them up, just in the same review. That was really a treat – they were really hot at that time.

I had the pleasure of working with Curtis Mayfield and The Impressions – their drummer spent a lot of time with me. He saw I was just a young brother, new to the scene. He was the first one to show me about rudiments, taking me aside to give me some training. I learned a lot just hanging out with him and watching him play – he was a master drummer. He came to an unfortunate end. While touring down south, driving over an icy bridge, they lost control of the car. They were also pulling a trailer. The car fell over into an icy river and everyone perished. It was a really sad, sad note for me to find out about that. I always looked forward to them coming to the Oakland/San Francisco Bay Area. We would usually get together and kick it, so this was really a big loss for the music community and me.

Another highlight in my career was in the ’70s, while working with Marvin Holmes and Justice. We worked with Rufus Thomas, Mr. “Do the Dog”, the father of the great Carla Thomas. Rufus Thomas taught me how to end songs. I used to just do “a feel”, then do a lot of rolls/movements, playing off the cymbals. He stopped me at a rehearsal Ð he said, “drummer, don’t ever end like that. End like this…”. He then showed me how to do a flam and then roll on the cymbals, making a big swell with the ending chord. I never forgot that – he showed me how to end a song. That was an incredible highlight to perform behind Rufus Thomas.

Also in the 70’s, I was back with The Whispers. I went to Europe for the first time, Geneva, Switzerland. We performed there for about a month. After that, I became a staff musician for the Soul Train Records, developed by Don Cornelius and the great Black promoter, Dick Griffey. We recorded the first Soul Train Gang LP, down on Sunset Boulevard at the RCA studio. During that time, we also did the “Midnight Special” television show. Working as a staff musician for Soul Train Records was a big moment for me. It was also great working with Don Cornelius and Dick Griffey.

[Roburt]

It seems that Choker & his orchestra backed up the Motortown Review (incl Stevie Wonder) @ the Regal Theatre in Chicago .

A picture off the net ................

 

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Roburt

[Ady Croasdell]

4 hours ago, Roburt said:

Guess Johnny Talbot & his band / orchestra were one outfit used by Motown to back up their artists ......

Johnny Talbot was a Bay Area musician probably just appearing on these shows as support John

[Ady Croasdell]

Jack Ashford as part of the  Charles Harris Trio were recruited by Marvin while playing a Philly nightclub and went on tour with him along with other established Funks

[Guest]

I'm sure a guy named Marvin Marshall toured with Motown acts in the UK in the 70s.

Guitarist and MD as I recall

[Roburt]

Yes you're right. Marvin Marshall was musical director (& guitar player) for the Supremes & then for the Temptations for a while in the 70's (I believe). He also played on Ronnie McNeir recordings. 

Guess others who backed up Motown artists on the road (at times) were Tony Newton, Andrew Smith, Johnny Griffith, Richard Allen, etc.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Roburt

[Sunnysoul]

Roburt,  master bass player Tony Newton appears to have been virtually completely omitted from all the Funk Brothers' histories and eulogies over the years yet he was as much a central figure as anybody in the Motown sound in the early and mid 60s as bassist together with James Jamerson .

He traveled with the Motown Review band which toured the UK in 1965 as the bass player in Jamerson's place because Berry Gordy needed Jamerson to stay in Detroit to record. That's him  you see on bass behind the artists in the Ready Steady Go Motown Special from the time.

He was also bassist and music director on the road for Smokey and the Miracles right through the early to mid 60s.

In the later 60s he moved to Invictus / Hot Wax with H-D-H and played on many of the companies's biggest hits and formed and became the central member of the 8th Day along with Melvin Davis after the group had its first hit ;  the group as we know never existed until the first record became a hit.  

I was lucky enough to meet him and have a chat when he toured Australia in the early 90s as music director for Thelma Houston. Up til then - like everybody else - I had believed that the Motown sound had been purely down to the usual 6 or 7 names  mentioned:  Jamerson, Benny Benjamin,  Earl Van Dyke, Jack Ashford etc so  I was stunned when he told me he that he had played bass on countless actual hit recordings like Stop In The Name Of Love , Where Did Our Love Go, Baby Love. I diplomatically asked him how could that be and he proceeded to explain that on many of those hit recordings Motown employed two bass players  playing at the same time ! As he explains in his autobiography it was actually him AND Jamerson playing together on those hits, Jamerson playing the low parts and Newton the high parts.

His autobiography makes interesting reading ....  https://www.tonynewtongoldthunder.com/

Edited February 29, 2016 by sunnysoul

[Roburt]

The people involved on the Motortown Revue shows would change even during the course of a single US tour ......

..... The revue would be out on the road for around 3 months (they would play week long stints in all the big chitlin-circuit theaters (Fox, Regal, Royal, Howard, Apollo, etc.) and this would sometimes clash with some artists recording schedules. So, if Stevie Wonder was on the package as it left Detroit but 9 weeks later, he had to be back in Hitsville to cut some new stuff, he would be replaced on the revue line-up by another artist (who say had a new 45 out that needed promoting).

... ALSO .... when the revue were playing a gig close to home (the Fox Theater, etc.), extra acts / musicians would be added to the numbers involved. For instance, in 1964 (?) the show undertaken @ the Fox Theater in Detroit include the likes of Tommy Good & the Headliners and I'm sure these two acts weren't on the rest of the tour.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Roburt

[Sunnysoul]

Roburt - are you sure that photo is the Revue from 1966?  Looks as if it from a  couple of years earlier .

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=OzmFCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA281&lpg=PA281&dq=bill+murry+fow+theater+detroit&source=bl&ots=ItaohWfbEw&sig=1CNNtS7_kKRK8c3wsDt8-6pt0a0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIl5XcpKbLAhUMmJQKHfzRDwAQ6AEIPDAG#v=onepage&q=bill%20murry%20fow%20theater%20detroit&f=false

Edited March 4, 2016 by sunnysoul

[Roburt]

Sunnysoul, I think you're right. It was late 1963 (?) & the shows were recorded and released on an LP (Motortown Revue Vol.2 ?).

Edited March 5, 2016 by Roburt

[BrianB]

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 08:13, sunnysoul said:

Roburt,  master bass player Tony Newton appears to have been virtually completely omitted from all the Funk Brothers' histories and eulogies over the years yet he was as much a central figure as anybody in the Motown sound in the early and mid 60s as bassist together with James Jamerson .

He traveled with the Motown Review band which toured the UK in 1965 as the bass player in Jamerson's place because Berry Gordy needed Jamerson to stay in Detroit to record. That's him  you see on bass behind the artists in the Ready Steady Go Motown Special from the time.

He was also bassist and music director on the road for Smokey and the Miracles right through the early to mid 60s.

In the later 60s he moved to Invictus / Hot Wax with H-D-H and played on many of the companies's biggest hits and formed and became the central member of the 8th Day along with Melvin Davis after the group had its first hit ;  the group as we know never existed until the first record became a hit.  

I was lucky enough to meet him and have a chat when he toured Australia in the early 90s as music director for Thelma Houston. Up til then - like everybody else - I had believed that the Motown sound had been purely down to the usual 6 or 7 names  mentioned:  Jamerson, Benny Benjamin,  Earl Van Dyke, Jack Ashford etc so  I was stunned when he told me he that he had played bass on countless actual hit recordings like Stop In The Name Of Love , Where Did Our Love Go, Baby Love. I diplomatically asked him how could that be and he proceeded to explain that on many of those hit recordings Motown employed two bass players  playing at the same time ! As he explains in his autobiography it was actually him AND Jamerson playing together on those hits, Jamerson playing the low parts and Newton the high parts.

His autobiography makes interesting reading ....  https://www.tonynewtongoldthunder.com/

Hi SS. Is there any supporting evidence of this claim of Tonys? I have to admit that I have not heard of the 2 bass players in the studio before. Thanks. 

[Roburt]

Mary Wilson (in her book) talks about the 1962 (fall to Xmas) Motortown Revue ...... she lists some of the musicians involved .....

Choker Campbell, Tate Houston, Miller Brisker, Norris Patterson, Herbert Williams, Little John Wilson, Tommy Perkson, Benny Benjamin, 'Swing' Lee, Marvin Tarplin, Cornelious Grant, Teddy Harris, Joe Hunter, James Jamerson, James Outcault, etc.

Must say, I've never heard of some of the guys !! 

The 1st date on that tour; a week at the Howard Theatre in DC ....

Edited March 4, 2016 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Just noticed another quote in Mary Wilson's book .......

.... in a section about Motown cover versions, she makes mention of "Come See About Me" by a Philly group the NELODODS  !!!!

I'd love to hear that track !?!?!

Seems that the Supremes played gigs in Bermuda back in 1964 @ the Clay House Inn. Wonder which musicians went on that trip with them ......

https://bermudasun.bm/Content/NEWS/News/Article/Clayhouse-Inn-will-reign-supreme-again/24/270/45970

Edited March 4, 2016 by Roburt

[Roburt]

I'll have to pull the box of old B&S mags out of the loft. The mag interviewed EVD when he came to the UK (backing Freda Payne) and I bet he made mention of US tours he went on with Motown acts in that (Earl was featured on the B&S front cover at the time).

By all accounts after EVD returned from that UK tour, the only regular job he could get was at a Detroit High School .... what a waste of true talent.

Another Motown related musician was Dennis Coffey. He cut an instrumental version of "It's Your Thing" that Motown wanted to license for release around the time Dennis first started to work @ Hitsville studio. He had earlier played on live gigs behind the likes of Edwin Starr but I'm unsure if this was before / after Edwin was signed to Motown.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Roburt

[Philippe]

1 hour ago, Roburt said:

Mary Wilson (in her book) talks about the 1962 (fall to Xmas) Motortown Revue ...... she lists some of the musicians involved .....

Choker Campbell, Tate Houston, Miller Brisker, Norris Patterson, Herbert Williams, Little John Wilson, Tommy Perkson, Benny Benjamin, 'Swing' Lee, Marvin Tarplin, Cornelious Grant, Teddy Harris, Joe Hunter, James Jamerson, James Outcault, etc.

Must say, I've never heard of some of the guys !! 

The 1st date on that tour; a week at the Howard Theatre in DC ....

About this 1962 tour there's a great book (mostly pictures) written by Curtis E. Woodson, who was the official photographer of the tour : https://books.google.fr/books/about/Memories_Of_The_1962_Motown_Revue.html?id=qrbbPAAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

https://faac.us/adf/messages/131452/138249.html?1172151761

 

[Roburt]

The 1963 tour (or maybe two different tours in the same year with different line-ups) ...........

........... anyone know ???

Edited March 4, 2016 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Just checked & it was basically the same line-up for both shows .....

...... York, PA in May and Toledo in November ...... though Stevie Wonder had obviously moved up the pecking order by November ... AND ... 2 M's had disappeared; Marv Johnson & the Marvelettes !!

The acts were obviously out on tour & away from Detroit for around 6 months that year !!

 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Roburt

[Roburt]

It seems that the line-up on the Motortown Revue shows was quite fluid. Above are 3 of the 1963 shows ......

In DC (Howard Theatre) there were 9 acts + the band.

In York, PA (where the Soul Clinic were from) there were 8 acts + the band (Mary Wells being there with the Supremes & Sammy Ward missing).

In Toledo there were 7 acts + the band (with Stevie Wonder now topping the bill).

.... HOWEVER ... only 14 days before the DC shows kicked off, the package had been playing their last date @ the Royal Theatre in Baltimore but on these dates there were only 5 acts + the band (and one of those acts was Jimmy Ruffin) ..........   

[Roburt]

Mary Wells was on the shows in late 1963, so Motown can't have been aware of her intention to dispute her contract & leave the company at the time.

One of her last 45 releases on Motown was still on the national US charts in mid July 64 and her 1st 20th Century 45 made it's chart debut in October that year, so the whole dispute must have blown up around May / June 64 I guess. Proposed 45 releases on her were pulled by Motown (Motown #1061 & #1065) in July & August 64 (otherwise we would have gotten her take on "When I'm Gone" and not Brenda's which escaped in Feb 65) so that legal proceedings must have been in full swing by then.

GETTING BACK TO the 63 Motortown Revue shows ........ I'd have been a bit pissed if I had gone to the show in Baltimore and seen just 5 acts, whereas two weeks later I could have attended a DC show and seen 9 acts. Strange goings on indeed. Mind you, the show would have remained about the same length (time-wise) so each act must have performed more songs on the shows staged in Baltimore.  

[Roburt]

12 hours ago, Roburt said:

It seems that the line-up on the Motortown Revue shows was quite fluid. Above are 3 of the 1963 shows ......

In DC (Howard Theatre) there were 9 acts + the band.

In York, PA (where the Soul Clinic were from) there were 8 acts + the band (Mary Wells being there with the Supremes & Sammy Ward missing).

In Toledo there were 7 acts + the band (with Stevie Wonder now topping the bill).

.... HOWEVER ... only 14 days before the DC shows kicked off, the package had been playing their last date @ the Royal Theatre in Baltimore but on these dates there were only 5 acts + the band (and one of those acts was Jimmy Ruffin) ..........   

Seems that 6 acts + the band were featured the week the Revue played the Harlem Apollo ..........

 

[recordsnracin]

Come See About Me was also done by Philly songstress NELLA DODDS on wand....not The Nelodods as quoted by ROBURT.

[Petedillon]

I know when the Temptations toured the UK around the time Dennis Edwards had just joined, early 70's?  The band that backed them included James Jameson so possibly other members of the funk brothers were there too. I can't remember now but do recall him being announced

Edited March 6, 2016 by PeteDillon

[Roburt]

A 1964 piece about Donzella Petty-John, the lead singer (!?!?!) of the Nelodods who cut "Come See About Me"  ... (SEE ABOVE) .......

Nella was from Havre De Grace, a very small town which is about half way between Wilmington & Baltimore.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Roburt

[Roburt]

It seems that by the early 70's, some Motown acts were going on stage backed up by Stax people (the Fabulous Soul Children's Band) ...

[Robbk]

On 3/3/2016 at 04:14, BrianB said:

Hi SS. Is there any supporting evidence of this claim of Tonys? I have to admit that I have not heard of the 2 bass players in the studio before. Thanks. 

I've heard from several ex-Motowners, and read in several quotes from interviews and quotes about Motown's recordings, that they often used two drummers, two bassists, several guitarists on the same recording, and THAT is how they got the "Motown Full Sound".  They often had Pistol Allen AND Benny Benjamin, or Benjamin AND Uriel Jones, and, yes, I heard that they had Newton along with Jamerson, and Robert White and Joe Messina.  I've seen Tony Newton on a LOT of the recording lists for many, many songs at Motown.  He certainly worked on a lot of sessions there.  I recognise a good many of those names above  as regular session players at Motown (Trombonist, Herbie Williams, Miller Brisker (Bonnie Brisker's brother), Choker Campbell, Tate Houston, Norris Patterson, Johnny Wilson, Tommy Perkson, Marvin Tarplin, Cornelius Grant, Teddy Harris, James Outcault, etc.  There certainly were a LOT more regular session musicians than the 11 or 12 so-called "Funk Brothers" (who were mostly Joe Hunter's Band (Pre-Motown)).  Famous so-called "non-Motowners", like Don Davis, Bruce McGregor, Johnny Allen, Gil Askey, Melvin Davis also played on many sessions at Motown.

I think Tony Newton's session work on Edwin Starr's cuts were BEFORE Motown took over Golden World' studio, and before they got Edwin's contract.

[Roburt]

As the discussion is drifting more towards Motown musician's studio work ......... BUT not yet to the thorny issue of who played on Motown tracks cut in LA in the 60's ............ thought I'd post these 2 clips up ... woun't help resolve anything I'm afraid BUT they are damn interesting to watch .........

..... 1st studio clip must date from 1964 .......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh_Qg4CbM8Q

... AND .... this hitsville studio footage must be from late 66 or early 67 .......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REfWqBRZ7Sw

 

Stay till the end of clip 1 ... the Motown Sound & popular 60's sounds came from ......... well COUNTRY MUSIC it says on this ?? 

BTW;  why do youtube video clips sometimes come up fully & other times only the web address for them appear ?? BAFFLING TO ME !!!

 

 

Edited March 18, 2016 by Roburt

[Roburt]

November 65 & Diana managed to convince BG to let EVD leave the studio and go on tour as leader of the Supremes backing band .... I wonder how she did that ?? .. 

[Roburt]

Anyone know if George Fowler (RIP) went on the road with the Motortown Revues back in the 60's  ??

[Roburt]

On ‎04‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 12:30, Roburt said:

Mary Wilson (in her book) talks about the 1962 (fall to Xmas) Motortown Revue ...... she lists some of the musicians involved .....

Choker Campbell, Tate Houston, Miller Brisker, Norris Patterson, Herbert Williams, Little John Wilson, Tommy Perkson, Benny Benjamin, 'Swing' Lee, Marvin Tarplin, Cornelious Grant, Teddy Harris, Joe Hunter, James Jamerson, James Outcault, etc.

Must say, I've never heard of some of the guys !! 

The 1st date on that tour; a week at the Howard Theatre in DC ....

Just read the book 'Once in a Great City  -- the Detroit Story' and this show gets a mention (as do the preparations made for it in Detroit, getting the bus / stn wagons ready, etc).