I Thought Current Stuff Was Rubbish

[Chalky]

=================

Silly statement! Doubt very much you have the monopoly on the definition of soul........bit of a blinkered view IMO.

Winnie:-)

I agree with Sweeney I'm afraid...bet that surprised you

This forum is a Rare Soul Forum not a pop that maybe sounds like soul forum, it's all in the title a top of the page.

None of the tracks discussed are Soul in my personal opinion.

Maybe there should be a seperate forum as already mentioned then some of us wouldn't have to open topics that discuss stuff like this. Titles like this one could have related to proper soul records released recently by proper soul singers for all any of us knew. If not a seperate forum how about a title to suggest your gonna open a topic about a pop record that maybe sounds soulful

[Chalky]

i

the scene played sven zetterberg , nicole willis , the modern scene has played lisa stansfield so there are examples of forward thinking outside the box .

so i ask the question , IF this is good enough WHY SHOULDN'T IT BE PLAYED

why forward think outside the box? there's 100's of records that rarely get played, many 100's forgotten about....there's also countless new releases from "proper" soul artists that deserve talking about on a soul forum before stuff from Christine Aguelera.

Now if the songs in question had sampled soul as we know it then that would be different but I've always held the view that topics like mthis should be in the non soul forums....just my opinion

[Guest Baz]

why forward think outside the box? there's 100's of records that rarely get played, many 100's forgotten about....

At least some one agrees with me

Sh*t chalky we can't been seen agreeing too much

[Winnie :-)]

I agree with Sweeney I'm afraid...bet that surprised you

This forum is a Rare Soul Forum not a pop that maybe sounds like soul forum, it's all in the title a top of the page.

None of the tracks discussed are Soul in my personal opinion.

Maybe there should be a seperate forum as already mentioned then some of us wouldn't have to open topics that discuss stuff like this. Titles like this one could have related to proper soul records released recently by proper soul singers for all any of us knew. If not a seperate forum how about a title to suggest your gonna open a topic about a pop record that maybe sounds soulful

==============

No it didn't particularly surprise me Chalks But you have said in your opinion as opposed to implying you are definitely correct

I personally think that to have a forum for this and a forum for that would be a backward step as it would stifle freedom of choice. I accept that you and Sweeney and others don't find the track soulful, but have you never heard a pop record that charted that you'd consider soulful. Four tops, Temps, anyone? If you have what criteria did it meet in your mind, and can't you accept someone else may have a different criteria? Wasn't virtually every release originally recorded so that the artist could make money by the record charting? In which case, as I read somewhere recently, aren't old northern tracks just failed pop records? I know that's generalising but can you see the point I'm making? It really seems to me that some require far too much exclusivity in their soul music, and I'm not sure that that reflects the general opinions held. Not that everyone has to agree with the general opinions, but they should accept that they exist and therefore going on the 'each to their own principle' are also valid.

Winnie:-)

PS. What did you have for tea

[Guest Ranger]

surely if any tune is good enough it deserves to be played ,,,,,, it is complete bollocks to say i was going to buy it cos i liked it but won't now cos of who it is :angry:

Not sure whether this was referring to my post. If it is please re-read it. It's a track off his latest CD, and as far as I'm aware hasn't been released as a single. I said in the post that I wouldn't buy it because he sang another track live and it was crap. I ain't forking out £15 or whatever they are for a one track CD.

Kev

[Chalky]

2 years old! Only 9 and a half months I'll have you know!

I bet the little 'un is taller than you now

[Chalky]

====================

No she's not specifically a soul artist, but that doesn't preclude her from making a soul record or does it?? I agree we're here to talk about rare soul, but we're also here to talk about the natural progression of the music, or is the revolution not to be televised??

but these artists aren'ty the natural progression are they, artist who still put out material like Jock mentioned, Archie Bell and Jesse James and many others are the natural progression

btw I also agree with everything Jock has said so far

[Pete S]

I agree with Sweeney I'm afraid...bet that surprised you

This forum is a Rare Soul Forum not a pop that maybe sounds like soul forum, it's all in the title a top of the page.

None of the tracks discussed are Soul in my personal opinion.

Maybe there should be a seperate forum as already mentioned then some of us wouldn't have to open topics that discuss stuff like this. Titles like this one could have related to proper soul records released recently by proper soul singers for all any of us knew. If not a seperate forum how about a title to suggest your gonna open a topic about a pop record that maybe sounds soulful

There's already enough strictly run rare soul forums that deal with this stuff and no off topic or slightly off topic material, aren't they enough for you?

We are having a nice discussion here, nobody's forcing anyone to read it, I think the Rehab record is soulful personally, I also think that if people heard some of Marti Pellow's vocals without knowing who the artist was, he wouldn't be getting the slating he's getting here either.

Who is to say who is a 'proper' soul singer and who isn't. It's all in the ear of the beholder.

F*cking ridiculous.

[Winnie :-)]

At least some one agrees with me

Sh*t chalky we can't been seen agreeing too much

=============

Ok Baz, scenario for you, lots of records deserve discussing because they're far more soulful. Discuss Oxford Knights and see if Chalks agrees with you. I'm betting he'd be saying, far more soulful records should be discussed before this. It doesn't matter what the record is, someone is always going to say it's not soulful enough, particularly if you open the doors on whats right and wrong. Maybe I'm over simplifying, but I think you'd be opening an even bigger can of worms??

[Pete S]

I bet the little 'un is taller than you now

Oh, ha-ha...but he is tall, the nurse who looked at him at 6 months says he's going to be tall, not sure where he gets that from but if he gets that, and as you can see, he's already got my good looks, he's going to be what's apparently known as a 'fanny magnet', so I'm told..

[Pete S]

btw I also agree with everything Jock has said so far

I suggest we sort this out by you and Jock sticking me and Winnie at bar football.

[Chalky]

Wasn't virtually every release originally recorded so that the artist could make money by the record charting? In which case, as I read somewhere recently, aren't old northern tracks just failed pop records? .

Winnie:-)

PS. What did you have for tea

Yes but many singers aimed there records at one particular, namely the R&B charts etc and if they got lucky they would then cross over to the pop charts.

Much of the Motown was aimed at the pop market, much of the more soulful stuff either suffered due to lack of promotion as it didn't appeal to the white youngsters or it was canned.

As for me tea I had to do it me sen so I had a blokes tea....bunged summat in the microwave and got a bottle of beer out of fridge

I suggest we sort this out by you and Jock sticking me and Winnie at bar football.

sounds good to me Pete. I actually won a bar football tournament once in Italy when I was about 15

[Guest Baz]

=============

Ok Baz, scenario for you, lots of records deserve discussing because they're far more soulful. Discuss Oxford Knights and see if Chalks agrees with you. I'm betting he'd be saying, far more soulful records should be discussed before this. It doesn't matter what the record is, someone is always going to say it's not soulful enough, particularly if you open the doors on whats right and wrong. Maybe I'm over simplifying, but I think you'd be opening an even bigger can of worms??

You threw that way out of perspective Winnie your just oggeling for a 'discussion' What i was saying was i'll put it in bold so you can see it better

Why should we play these taylor made records when there is litterly 1000's of better records over looked from the 60's!!

And that was in reply to Davies post of If its good why not play it.

It p*sses me off when you can here a record of the likes of nicol wills at any venue you go to over a weekend ok not so much now but few months back yes that also goes to show how much longingtivity these records have, keep banging on about these records will keep the scene progressing sorry not IMO they have a shelf life of 3 months max, but then records like Dont stop just been released previously unissued, you'll struggle to here that any where, and i'll go head to head with any one with that record and kick the taylor mades ar*e out the window with it. Do you seriously think that Amy housenbraken what ever her name is will sound any good at a venue? nah doubt it

[Winnie :-)]

but these artists aren'ty the natural progression are they, artist who still put out material like Jock mentioned, Archie Bell and Jesse James and many others are the natural progression

btw I also agree with everything Jock has said so far

================

Artists who have been putting out music for 20/30 years aren't the natural progression of the music. What's current is the natural progression. If Archie Bell was asked, which would you rather. An album that sells a million copies, or one that is heralded as the way forward by 200 people on SS, how do you think he'd answer? Bet he'd go for the one that gives him financial stability. Think we have to remember they're in the music business for money rather than to make concept albums.

Winnie:-)

[Chalky]

There's already enough strictly run rare soul forums that deal with this stuff and no off topic or slightly off topic material, aren't they enough for you?

We are having a nice discussion here, nobody's forcing anyone to read it, I think the Rehab record is soulful personally, I also think that if people heard some of Marti Pellow's vocals without knowing who the artist was, he wouldn't be getting the slating he's getting here either.

Who is to say who is a 'proper' soul singer and who isn't. It's all in the ear of the beholder.

F*cking ridiculous.

there's also plenty of forums to discuss Amy Whinehouse too

[Pete S]

there's also plenty of forums to discuss Amy Whinehouse too

Excellent mis-spelling there

[Chalky]

=============

Ok Baz, scenario for you, lots of records deserve discussing because they're far more soulful. Discuss Oxford Knights and see if Chalks agrees with you. I'm betting he'd be saying, far more soulful records should be discussed before this. It doesn't matter what the record is, someone is always going to say it's not soulful enough, particularly if you open the doors on whats right and wrong. Maybe I'm over simplifying, but I think you'd be opening an even bigger can of worms??

Whether I lioke the Oxford Knigjhts or not is irrelevant but the Oxford Knights is a Northern Soul record, the label has a history with scene, Amy Whinehouse and that Christine bird don't and are highly unlikely too

[Winnie :-)]

Yes but many singers aimed there records at one particular, namely the R&B charts etc and if they got lucky they would then cross over to the pop charts.

Much of the Motown was aimed at the pop market, much of the more soulful stuff either suffered due to lack of promotion as it didn't appeal to the white youngsters or it was canned.

As for me tea I had to do it me sen so I had a blokes tea....bunged summat in the microwave and got a bottle of beer out of fridge

sounds good to me Pete. I actually won a bar football tournament once in Italy when I was about 15

============

I'll go with the bar football, but has to be soon, my wrists aren't as supple as they used to be, which is affecting me in other walks of life?

As for the records, would have thought lack of promotion the main failing?

[Chalky]

Excellent mis-spelling there

[Cheltsoulnights]

Confession time................me too!! Loved this track!

Its a hit record

Not really a northern tune to my ears

By the way

Rehab is record of the week on Radio 2!

[Guest Baz]

By the way

Rehab is record of the week on Radio 2!

Wow! i forgot how much good taste radio two has in soul music

Think she needs to go into rehab her singing aint good on that record

[Winnie :-)]

You threw that way out of perspective Winnie your just oggeling for a 'discussion' What i was saying was i'll put it in bold so you can see it better

Why should we play these taylor made records when there is litterly 1000's of better records over looked from the 60's!!

And that was in reply to Davies post of If its good why not play it.

It p*sses me off when you can here a record of the likes of nicol wills at any venue you go to over a weekend ok not so much now but few months back yes that also goes to show how much longingtivity these records have, keep banging on about these records will keep the scene progressing sorry not IMO they have a shelf life of 3 months max, but then records like Dont stop just been released previously unissued, you'll struggle to here that any where, and i'll go head to head with any one with that record and kick the taylor mades ar*e out the window with it. Do you seriously think that Amy housenbraken what ever her name is will sound any good at a venue? nah doubt it

==============

If you're going to put things in bold, you may as well do them in a bigger font as well, my eyes just aren't what they used to be

Loads of northern tracks have short shelf lives as well Baz, particularly if they're reasonably common, world of happiness, never played any more (apart from the alternate takes and Pete G) You're my mellow, a few years ago you couldn't go to a venue without hearing it, never nowadays. Same could be said for jeanette, or voodoo working, rarely played. So shelf life has nothing to do with it, once a record has been played and played, it naturally goes to the back of the box. I'm not saying, nor have ever said that they're the progression the scene was taking, although I do believe they could influence younger people into listening to the music, I said Amy W for instance is a natural progression of soul music, because like it or not, the music is designed to be popular not exclusive.

Don't think I took anything out of perspective, can you not see that if you put a record up and someone says it's not soulful, you're going to get the same reaction. Someone earlier in the thread referred to soulful house (Jock) lets have some examples and see how long it is before someone else says it's not soulful. You're tying your own hands, by being so inflexible.

Winnie:-)

[Guest dundeedavie]

why forward think outside the box? there's 100's of records that rarely get played, many 100's forgotten about....there's also countless new releases from "proper" soul artists that deserve talking about on a soul forum before stuff from Christine Aguelera.

Now if the songs in question had sampled soul as we know it then that would be different but I've always held the view that topics like mthis should be in the non soul forums....just my opinion

imagine the scenario ..... a record comes along that is good enough to rival the "proper" soul records you talk of , it might never ever happen ... but what if it does ? still no plays because of who the artists are? regardless the quality of the record ? thats all i was saying

[Winnie :-)]

Its a hit record

Not really a northern tune to my ears

By the way

Rehab is record of the week on Radio 2!

================

Did someone say it was northern then?? I don't think it is, but I do think it's soulful

[Chalky]

imagine the scenario ..... a record comes along that is good enough to rival the "proper" soul records you talk of , it might never ever happen ... but what if it does ? still no plays because of who the artists are? regardless the quality of the record ? thats all i was saying

I wouldn't be searching the pop charts for the next big record

[Winnie :-)]

imagine the scenario ..... a record comes along that is good enough to rival the "proper" soul records you talk of , it might never ever happen ... but what if it does ? still no plays because of who the artists are? regardless the quality of the record ? thats all i was saying

=============

It'll get talked about, but it will have to take a ticket and wait til its name gets called out.

"Number 2,345 your time has arrived"

"Second call for 2,345"

"Bugger missed it, went out for a coffee, oh well back to the end of the queue......."

[Pete S]

Wow! i forgot how much good taste radio two has in soul music

Can you remember which national radio station broadcast an entire northern soul allnighter? Or had a regular prime time northern soul show? Or constantly makes excellent in depth documentaries about soul music? Radio 2.

[Guest dundeedavie]

I wouldn't be searching the pop charts for the next big record

glad to hear it , neither would i and i haven't heard the records they are talking about either

[Winnie :-)]

Can you remember which national radio station broadcast an entire northern soul allnighter? Or had a regular prime time northern soul show? Or constantly makes excellent in depth documentaries about soul music? Radio 2.

=============

but apart from the above, what did the Romans ever do for us....................

[Guest Baz]

Can you remember which national radio station broadcast an entire northern soul allnighter? Or had a regular prime time northern soul show? Or constantly makes excellent in depth documentaries about soul music? Radio 2.

Entire northern soul all nighter???????? dont think so Pete they did about 3hrs footage from Preswitch, which was an absolute monstrosity of a broadcast As for Stuart Marconies oh look at me i went to wigan show that was just as dire.

[Pete S]

Entire northern soul all nighter???????? dont think so Pete they did about 3hrs footage from Preswitch, which was an absolute monstrosity of a broadcast As for Stuart Marconies oh look at me i went to wigan show that was just as dire.

You'd be moaning if there was none at all - and you're moaning because there is some!

[Guest SteveA]

Blimey - sorry I put up the first post now. Also I'm apologetic for not putting in Freebasin' or some other forum.

I never suggested Ms C.A. was Soul. All I wanted to know was had anybody else heard it. Didn't realise it would lead to all these Godin-esque essays on what is Soul.

"Lucky I didn't mention the dirty knife." © Graham Chapman.

[Guest Ranger]

Blimey - sorry I put up the first post now. Also I'm apologetic for not putting in Freebasin' or some other forum.

I never suggested Ms C.A. was Soul. All I wanted to know was had anybody else heard it. Didn't realise it would lead to all these Godin-esque essays on what is Soul.

"Lucky I didn't mention the dirty knife." © Graham Chapman.

1300+ views and 80 posts in 2 days - Don't apologise for that Steve.

I really can't understand some of the things that have been said though. This discussion is basically about what is and isn't a soul record and whether we're open minded enough to accept 'different' takes on it. To say that a discussion like this should go in Freebasing is laughable, take another look at the name of the forum

Kev

[hipshaker 05]

christ .... there's some miserable gits here. what you scared of .... a little discussion about some records that are not by "proper soul singers".

[Winnie :-)]

1300+ views and 80 posts in 2 days - Don't apologise for that Steve.

I really can't understand some of the things that have been said though. This discussion is basically about what is and isn't a soul record and whether we're open minded enough to accept 'different' takes on it. To say that a discussion like this should go in Freebasing is laughable, take another look at the name of the forum

Kev

==============

Agree with the above, good thread, thought provoking and very interesting, which ever side of the fence you come down on. Would have been lost in free basing, and the heading at the top of this category is "All about Soul", not all about rare soul ........ nice one Steve

[mischief]

Could anyone post up an mp3 of the record please or even the name of it....

Read all the above and thought I don't really care its of no intrest to me anyway.... but I said the same about Lisa Stansfield 831.. Kenny Thomas Crazy world.. Angie Stone wish I didn't miss you... and I like all them oh and also dj genises ...

need the MP3

[Guest Ranger]

You can hear the Marti Pellow track on the Radio 2 website by listenening to the Jonathan Ross show again. It's about 2 hours 10 in. Just listened again and it sounded much better doing 70 on the M62. He tries hard but the soul is in the production not the singer. Fast forward to 2 hours 25 and he's singing another track live. Make your own judgement on this one - IMO it's awfull.

Kev

[Chalky]

take another look at the name of the forum

Kev

[Guest Baz]

Just have to say listened to that Marty fellow me chaps record dont think much to it at all, how any one can call that soul is beyond me

[Kerry F]

Just bought 'Save room' by John Legend; Great - Well worth a listen!

Sharon

Does this remind you of 'Stormy' or is it just me. Mate went to see him last night at the Albert Hall , said he was brilliant.

[Winnie :-)]

Just have to say listened to that Marty fellow me chaps record dont think much to it at all, how any one can call that soul is beyond me

===================

What does it require for something to be soul? Not saying Marty Pellow is soulful, just asking for a few peoples definitions. Doesn't even have to include any examples

[Guest Baz]

===================

What does it require for something to be soul? Not saying Marty Pellow is soulful, just asking for a few peoples definitions. Doesn't even have to include any examples

F**k me Win, i'll work out the meaning of life while im at it

I dont know you either feel it or you dont, now off to get a degree in Quantom Physics to work out the relativity of the Earths gravitational pull

[Guest Ranger]

Rare Soul Forum > All About the SOUL

Exactly : All About The Soul

[Winnie :-)]

F**k me Win, i'll work out the meaning of life while im at it

I dont know you either feel it or you dont, now off to get a degree in Quantom Physics to work out the relativity of the Earths gravitational pull

=================

Shouldn't you have said that in freebasing

So if you can't define soul as an absolute, stands to reason that different people are going to find different tracks soulful, whilst others don't. No right and no wrong, just different opinions?

[Chalky]

Exactly : All About The Soul

yeah on a rare soul forum...since when have Christine Aguilera and Amy Whingehouse been soul let alone rare soul which is what we are here to discuss at the end of the day, not pop music

[Guest Baz]

=================

Shouldn't you have said that in freebasing

So if you can't define soul as an absolute, stands to reason that different people are going to find different tracks soulful, whilst others don't. No right and no wrong, just different opinions?

Exactelly, thats what the forum is for giving your opinions then discussing them

How ever mine are all ways right

[Guest Ranger]

yeah on a rare soul forum...since when have Christine Aguilera and Amy Whingehouse been soul let alone rare soul which is what we are here to discuss at the end of the day, not pop music

On the first index page alone there are at least 9 threads which have less relevance to a 'Rare Soul' discussion than this one. So, which is more relevant, discussing whether a record is soul or not, or talking about an obscure sub-plot on Coronation Street.

Kev

[jocko]

===================

What does it require for something to be soul? Not saying Marty Pellow is soulful, just asking for a few peoples definitions. Doesn't even have to include any examples

Wooly answer is they have to sound at least remotely like one of artists I quoted, or throw in O.V Wright or Aretha (just to prove you dont have to be brought up in poverty as background), thats the exact definition, or as exact as you are gonna get it!

Or if you want a more scientific answer then it a sound born in West Africa some time in 19th century, but started to really evolve in the USA 1920's to 50's and was finally fully born in 1960's within Afro-American cultures and reached its zenith at some point in the 70's, although much harder to find evidence nowadays live examples of this are out there!

Or easiest answer is PM your address I will send you a CD of what I call real soul and if you don't think there is any discernable sound then Baz will eat Chalkies hat live at an allnighter in the near future!

I now officialy surrender to your unbelievable tenacity at debating Win!!

Cheers

Jock

Edited October 3, 2006 by jocko

[Winnie :-)]

Wooly answer is they have to sound at least remotely like one of artists I quoted, or throw in O.V Wright or Aretha (just to prove you dont have to be brought up in poverty as background), thats the exact definition, or as exact as you are gonna get it!

Or if you want a more scientific answer then it a sound born in West Africa some time in 19th century, but started to really evolve in the USA 1920's to 50's and was finally fully born in 1960's within Afro-American cultures and reached its zenith at some point in the 70's, although much harder to find evidence nowadays live examples of this are out there!

Or easiest answer is PM your address I will send you a CD of what I call real soul and if you don't think there is any discernable sound then Baz will eat Chalkies hat live at an allnighter in the near future!

I now officialy surrender to your unbelievable tenacity at debating Win!!

Cheers

Jock

===========

Have PM'd you

[Sweeney]

On the first index page alone there are at least 9 threads which have less relevance to a 'Rare Soul' discussion than this one. So, which is more relevant, discussing whether a record is soul or not, or talking about an obscure sub-plot on Coronation Street.

Kev

Who's to say that Coronation Street isn't "Soul".