Should they be considered Northern soul Artist

[Guest Musicnam101]

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 07:48, jam66 said:

As the part quote above and others have mentioned and if I may add, we didn't really give a rat's ass the colour or geographical location of the record's artists or producers, certainly for the majority, it just had a certain sound that joie de vivre. That's not to say we weren't conscious of it it simply was not our first concern. I too wore a single black driving glove (Bradford Mecca '68/'69/'70ish Kegsy ) when first being attracted to the records. To presume I had any real idea of the racism and struggle for self identity within America would be tosh. Once again in reference to the above quote it was about me/the rest of us not the social discord elsewhere. Many of us had our own to flee from.

 

Any later ruminations on these themes have come with age and the growing awareness that comes with knowledge and experience,  we were young people having the time of our lives which is the annoying part of your post in retrospectively applying politics to our 'childhoods' which misses the whole point and is what you seem to be missing.  Sure now many of these things are well recognised amongst us but they really were irrelevant at the time.

 

Your other point about the geographical element says more perhaps about some divisions as seen by black America than here, many a fantastic side came out of LA including many on the Okeh imprint. Or is it that perhaps it's not as important there as you are claiming and are merely trying to upset us with some perceived superior knowledge and or insights. Don't think I'd bother if I was you as some on here could tell you what the assistant engineer had for breakfast and whether the receptionist got lucky the night before the tracks were laid down.

 

Rant over but I can't help but envisage trolls like yourself as bathing in infants tears so here's something for after bathtime for you.

 

 

I agree with you. They were irrelevant to you then. and based on your reply they are irrelevant to you now. No argument here.

What do you know about Johnson's baby powder ?

[Guest Musicnam101]

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 07:48, jam66 said:

As the part quote above and others have mentioned and if I may add, we didn't really give a rat's ass the colour or geographical location of the record's artists or producers, certainly for the majority, it just had a certain sound that joie de vivre. That's not to say we weren't conscious of it it simply was not our first concern. I too wore a single black driving glove (Bradford Mecca '68/'69/'70ish Kegsy ) when first being attracted to the records. To presume I had any real idea of the racism and struggle for self identity within America would be tosh. Once again in reference to the above quote it was about me/the rest of us not the social discord elsewhere. Many of us had our own to flee from.

 

Any later ruminations on these themes have come with age and the growing awareness that comes with knowledge and experience,  we were young people having the time of our lives which is the annoying part of your post in retrospectively applying politics to our 'childhoods' which misses the whole point and is what you seem to be missing.  Sure now many of these things are well recognised amongst us but they really were irrelevant at the time.

 

Your other point about the geographical element says more perhaps about some divisions as seen by black America than here, many a fantastic side came out of LA including many on the Okeh imprint. Or is it that perhaps it's not as important there as you are claiming and are merely trying to upset us with some perceived superior knowledge and or insights. Don't think I'd bother if I was you as some on here could tell you what the assistant engineer had for breakfast and whether the receptionist got lucky the night before the tracks were laid down.

 

Rant over but I can't help but envisage trolls like yourself as bathing in infants tears so here's something for after bathtime for you.

 

 

One should not get so upset because another is attempting to deliver facts that they may not be aware of or even heard of.

There is so much about the African American community that has been ignored, stolen, disregarded, White washed. on and on and on.

But we are simply talking about the coining of the term  NORTHERN SOUL 

Must this too, follow suite.

[dean jj]

Sir,

Of course the Black community in the US and elsewhere have suffered abuse, degradation, and wide spread ignorance, and lack of appreciation of its musical importance, way beyond the relatively narrow field of 'northern soul music' or even 'soul music',  but get a grip, and read what initial exclamation started this ridiculous thread, and start your own thread on this wider, and undoubtedly more important subject that concerns you.

dean

Edited February 18, 2016 by dean jj

[Amsterdam Russ]

I think most of the confusion about terms used in this thread is actually confusion over adjectives and nouns.

For example, to say that someone is a "northern soul brother" is to use the word "northern" as an adjective to describe people who are "...situated in the north" or are "living in or originate from the north" (definition from the Oxford Dictionary of English). This geographical reference has been outlined by a number of people already in this thread.

The same dictionary defines northern soul thusly:

Quote

Definition of Northern soul in English:

noun

[MASS NOUN]

Soul music of a typically upbeat style that was particularly popular in parts of northern England during the 1970s:people who are into Northern soul[AS MODIFIER]: the Northern soul scene

While almost everyone on Soul Source, including myself, would like to take the Oxford Dictionary of English to task on this definition, the point is that it's clearly defined as a noun of the variety known as a mass noun.

In a nutshell then, using "northern soul" in the adjectival sense to argue that a "northern soul scene" (as a mass noun) existed in the USA prior to the scene in the UK is fatally flawed. If the original poster wishes to argue this claim then they actually need to back this up with much more than hearsay.

Whilst we're at it, a trawl through the archives of Billboard magazine shows the first use of "southern soul" as a mass noun (eg, referring to a southern soul musical genre) came in the issue dated 29th April 1969 in a reference to the music of Clarence Carter. While one would expect a mainstream publication to be somewhat late to the cultural party, this is much later than I would have expected.

Interestingly though, what it shows is that both "southern soul" and "northern soul" come into being relatively closely to one another, albeit on opposite sides of the Atlantic.

At the same time, the first mention of "northern soul" in Billboard doesn't come until the issue dated 19th March 1977 where it is used as a mass noun in reference to the burgeoning UK market for bootlegs of obscure "soul" 45s. Thus it is the first time that Billboard ever makes any mention of a "northern soul scene".

Billboard: 19th March 1977

One can only conclude that if there were an identifiable "northern soul scene" in the USA, it would have been mentioned by one of the USA's most authoritative music publications well before this date.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Russell Gilbert

[jam66]

15 hours ago, Musicnam101 said:

I agree with you. They were irrelevant to you then. and based on your reply they are irrelevant to you now. No argument here.

What do you know about Johnson's baby powder ?

Just being a smart ass. It's an in joke we'd often put talc on the floor when dancing.

[Guest Musicnam101]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 12:18, dean jj said:

Sir,

Of course the Black community in the US and elsewhere have suffered abuse, degradation, and wide spread ignorance, and lack of appreciation of its musical importance, way beyond the relatively narrow field of 'northern soul music' or even 'soul music',  but get a grip, and read what initial exclamation started this ridiculous thread, and start your own thread on this wider, and undoubtedly more important subject that concerns you.

dean

You say get a grip, Or do you really mean get over it?  Very interested in your reply. 

[Guest Musicnam101]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 12:37, Russell Gilbert said:

I think most of the confusion about terms used in this thread is actually confusion over adjectives and nouns.

For example, to say that someone is a "northern soul brother" is to use the word "northern" as an adjective to describe people who are "...situated in the north" or are "living in or originate from the north" (definition from the Oxford Dictionary of English). This geographical reference has been outlined by a number of people already in this thread.

The same dictionary defines northern soul thusly:

While almost everyone on Soul Source, including myself, would like to take the Oxford Dictionary of English to task on this definition, the point is that it's clearly defined as a noun of the variety known as a mass noun.

In a nutshell then, using "northern soul" in the adjectival sense to argue that a "northern soul scene" (as a mass noun) existed in the USA prior to the scene in the UK is fatally flawed. If the original poster wishes to argue this claim then they actually need to back this up with much more than hearsay.

Whilst we're at it, a trawl through the archives of Billboard magazine shows the first use of "southern soul" as a mass noun (eg, referring to a southern soul musical genre) came in the issue dated 29th April 1969 in a reference to the music of Clarence Carter. While one would expect a mainstream publication to be somewhat late to the cultural party, this is much later than I would have expected.

Interestingly though, what it shows is that both "southern soul" and "northern soul" come into being relatively closely to one another, albeit on opposite sides of the Atlantic.

At the same time, the first mention of "northern soul" in Billboard doesn't come until the issue dated 19th March 1977 where it is used as a mass noun in reference to the burgeoning UK market for bootlegs of obscure "soul" 45s. Thus it is the first time that Billboard ever makes any mention of a "northern soul scene".

Billboard: 19th March 1977

One can only conclude that if there were an identifiable "northern soul scene" in the USA, it would have been mentioned by one of the USA's most authoritative music publications well before this date.

Are you saying that an institution not owned or run in any way by members of the community that created the music and genre is the authority on this subject, and not the actual community whom has within their possession still to this day knowledge about the origins of Northern Soul that such institutions do not?

[Guest Carl Dixon]

What an interesting thread.

I remember an American writer/producer/singer telling me he did not understand the terminology 'Northern Soul'. He was a doo wop man (The Revels) and as time progressed through the 60's, styles changed and Motown came along. The music he made in the 60's, that later would be termed Northern Soul (The Tymes/'Here she comes', Yvonne Baker/'You didn't a word'), would become staples of this genre without him knowing. And...as styles progressed in the 70's, he came up with things like The Tymes/'You Little Trustmaker', 'Miss Grace' etc. Ironically, many think his 70's Tymes recordings were done in Philly, but I believe the rhythm section was New York and Strings/horns in Philly (Richard Rome). And..it was him on lead vocals on Trustmaker..not any of The Tymes! I told him NS was all about the beat and dance ability!

Getting back to the original comment about Northern Soul artists. There is no such thing.  Also there are no Northern Soul writers, producers, musicians etc. The scenes dj's and dancers decree whether a recording qualifies as Northern Soul. I write and produce in a style reminiscent of the mid 1960's and early 1970's. I tag the music as Soul, Motown, Tamla, Northern, Philly, MFSB, TSOP, Salsoul, Carolina Beach. But the 60's styled material is none of those unless a dj or dancers at a venue say so by conduct - ie by playing the record and dancing to it. 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Carl Dixon

[Amsterdam Russ]

3 hours ago, Musicnam101 said:

Are you saying that an institution not owned or run in any way by members of the community that created the music and genre is the authority on this subject, and not the actual community whom has within their possession still to this day knowledge about the origins of Northern Soul that such institutions do not?

What community? Beyond hearsay, you haven't offered any evidence to support your assertion that a so-called Northern Soul scene (or community, if you prefer) existed in the USA and that its origins predate the UK scene.

So far all we've had are unsupported and very vague claims and a lot of confusion over the use of adjectives and nouns. I think we're all genuinely interested, so enlightenment would be very welcome.

[Dave Rimmer]

OK Musicnam101.

We've tried to explain it to you in plain English, technically grammatically correct English, and Uncle Tom Cobbley's English.

Each time you have just dismissed our explanations pretty much on the basis that we are not black, or American, and were not in The States during the late Sixties / early Seventies.

Well, no, we're none of those things, but the majority of people on this site have quite extensive knowledge about, and contact with, the people who made that music. And I can say quite confidently that none of the artists, writers, arrangers, musicians, producers, label owners, radio DJs, and record pluggers I've spoken to, had EVER Heard the phrase 'Northern Soul' used in an American concept. It always had to be explained what the English usage was the first time the phrase came up.

So, let's see some examples from you, of where the phrase Northern Soul, or Northern Soul Brothers, was used in America, prior to the English use of the phrase. Just SAYING it was so, doesn't make it so, otherwise I would have owned a bigger and better record company than Berry Gordy, simply because I can say I did !

In other words, to use another English phrase.....Put up, or shut up !

 

[Guest Musicnam101]

2 hours ago, Russell Gilbert said:

What community? Beyond hearsay, you haven't offered any evidence to support your assertion that a so-called Northern Soul scene (or community, if you prefer) existed in the USA and that its origins predate the UK scene.

So far all we've had are unsupported and very vague claims and a lot of confusion over the use of adjectives and nouns. I think we're all genuinely interested, so enlightenment would be very welcome.

Great! right there is your home work assignment. Here's a little help. "YOU" can start with the history of "D.C Go-Go".  Your research will lead you to the answer.

We Know for sure.   It's you that needs convincing. If you discover this for yourself you will more than likely accept it. Maybe not. But there is where "you" can start. 

[Kegsy]

19 minutes ago, Musicnam101 said:

Great! right there is your home work assignment. Here's a little help. "YOU" can start with the history of "D.C Go-Go".  Your research will lead you to the answer.

We Know for sure.   It's you that needs convincing. If you discover this for yourself you will more than likely accept it. Maybe not. But there is where "you" can start. 

Ok we have a musical scene, based around a particular style of music, called D.C. Go-Go and another musical scene called The Northern Soul Scene based on, a completely different, particular style of music, that appears to be only similarity between the two as far as I can gather. 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Kegsy

[Roburt]

Back to the group / record in question (Shangi-las -- Give Him a Great Big Kiss) ............

It COULD be considered NORTHERN but not NS (IMHO).

Many pop songs played on the scene down the years (most being garbage IMO) but they were played and therefore have to figure in the history of NS. Now, I'll go on Facebook & the like and state that I recall Bill Oddie's NS biggie being played on the scene in the 70's and a whole new heated debate can kick off. 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Roburt

[Amsterdam Russ]

50 minutes ago, Musicnam101 said:

Great! right there is your home work assignment. Here's a little help. "YOU" can start with the history of "D.C Go-Go".  Your research will lead you to the answer.

We Know for sure.   It's you that needs convincing. If you discover this for yourself you will more than likely accept it. Maybe not. But there is where "you" can start. 

DC Go-go? You mean this as defined by Wikipedia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go-go

Presuming so, I don't doubt for a minute that many different scenes – regional or rhythmic – would have developed around "black" music in the 1960s in a country as large as the United States. To me that's as plain as day. What I (and the rest of us) aren't getting is what you said in one of your earlier posts.
 

Quote

By the time the people in the northern regions of England discovered an appreciation of  African American soul music,

The TERM "NORTHERN SOUL" was already being used by members of the African American  community.  (Northern soul, Southern soul, Juke Joint style, Jive etc.)

The community did differentiate between the very styles of music that they created, The bands as well as the artist. Even if those outside of the community did not recognize or acknowledge it.

The statement highlighted in red is what this whole discussion is about. To help us take this further, I suggest a change of tack. Instead of arguing against you, how about if we (I - as I can't speak for others) accept what you're saying with a healthy degree of both curiosity and scepticism on the basis that you may be about to enlighten us on a part of black music history and culture that we've hitherto been ignorant? 

In that light and beyond what you've already said, what insights can you give us about the origins and development of the term? 

For example, from where, geographically, did it originate? One presumes people in the north wouldn't apply "northern" to their own music, so that points us in another direction.

When did it originate - early, mid, late 60s - earlier?

Was it applied as a term geographically or to a broad style? Or, like "southern soul" did its definition embrace both geography and style?

Who would have used the term and how widespread was its usage to the best of your knowledge?

The more insights you can offer, the more persuasive your claims.

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Russell Gilbert

[Guest Musicnam101]

17 hours ago, Roburt said:

Back to the group / record in question (Shangi-las -- Give Him a Great Big Kiss) ............

It COULD be considered NORTHERN but not NS (IMHO).

Many pop songs played on the scene down the years (most being garbage IMO) but they were played and therefore have to figure in the history of NS. Now, I'll go on Facebook & the like and state that I recall Bill Oddie's NS biggie being played on the scene in the 70's and a whole new heated debate can kick off. 

I love that song.

[Guest Musicnam101]

17 hours ago, Kegsy said:

Ok we have a musical scene, based around a particular style of music, called D.C. Go-Go and another musical scene called The Northern Soul Scene based on, a completely different, particular style of music, that appears to be only similarity between the two as far as I can gather. 

O.K

[Guest Musicnam101]

17 hours ago, Russell Gilbert said:

DC Go-go? You mean this as defined by Wikipedia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go-go

Presuming so, I don't doubt for a minute that many different scenes – regional or rhythmic – would have developed around "black" music in the 1960s in a country as large as the United States. To me that's as plain as day. What I (and the rest of us) aren't getting is what you said in one of your earlier posts.
 

The statement highlighted in red is what this whole discussion is about. To help us take this further, I suggest a change of tack. Instead of arguing against you, how about if we (I - as I can't speak for others) accept what you're saying with a healthy degree of both curiosity and scepticism on the basis that you may be about to enlighten us on a part of black music history and culture that we've hitherto been ignorant? 

In that light and beyond what you've already said, what insights can you give us about the origins and development of the term? 

For example, from where, geographically, did it originate? One presumes people in the north wouldn't apply "northern" to their own music, so that points us in another direction.

When did it originate - early, mid, late 60s - earlier?

Was it applied as a term geographically or to a broad style? Or, like "southern soul" did its definition embrace both geography and style?

Who would have used the term and how widespread was its usage to the best of your knowledge?

The more insights you can offer, the more persuasive your claims.

 

 

 

Each one of your questions has already been answered.

The style is older than the early/mid/late 60's. Making actual recordings of the music started in the 60's.

If you have any clue of  how much of the African American experience and tradition is just simply not documented (Unintentionally & purposefully)

Then and maybe only then will you get it. 

 

[Kegsy]

28 minutes ago, Musicnam101 said:

Each one of your questions has already been answered.

The style is older than the early/mid/late 60's. Making actual recordings of the music started in the 60's.

If you have any clue of  how much of the African American experience and tradition is just simply not documented (Unintentionally & purposefully)

Then and maybe only then will you get it. 

 

Perhaps if you could give us a clue about "the style" of music it would help. D.C. Go-Go seems to be a particular fusion of Soul/Latin/Jazz, would this description also fit the music played by the wandering Northern/Southern Soul Brothers, using your terminology ?.

Or did the Northern/Southern Soul Brothers have their own styles that differed from D.C. Go Go.

 

Edited February 23, 2016 by Kegsy

[Amsterdam Russ]

3 hours ago, Musicnam101 said:

Each one of your questions has already been answered.

The style is older than the early/mid/late 60's. Making actual recordings of the music started in the 60's.

If you have any clue of  how much of the African American experience and tradition is just simply not documented (Unintentionally & purposefully)

Then and maybe only then will you get it. 

 

Sorry, but that doesn't really add to the education you feel we sorely need. And to say that such social aspects go unrecorded is not entirely true. They are recorded in the minds of those who lived the experiences and passed on as aural histories.

Whether people with that knowledge will share it with "outsiders" is another matter. To be sure though, not sharing it, or saying that "you won't understand" or that "you won't get it" is patronising and a sure fire way of hastening that history's demise.

I don't consider the questions to have been answered because your input has been rather cloudy - hence the desire for clarification and deeper insight. You have to decide whether you wish to enlighten us or walk away having failed in your task to do so without really trying. I'd prefer the first option, but it's your call.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Russell Gilbert
Clarity

[macca]

Did we get an intro? 

[Guest Musicnam101]

21 hours ago, Russell Gilbert said:

Sorry, but that doesn't really add to the education you feel we sorely need. And to say that such social aspects go unrecorded is not entirely true. They are recorded in the minds of those who lived the experiences and passed on as aural histories.

Whether people with that knowledge will share it with "outsiders" is another matter. To be sure though, not sharing it, or saying that "you won't understand" or that "you won't get it" is patronising and a sure fire way of hastening that history's demise.

I don't consider the questions to have been answered because your input has been rather cloudy - hence the desire for clarification and deeper insight. You have to decide whether you wish to enlighten us or walk away having failed in your task to do so without really trying. I'd prefer the first option, but it's your call.

You have all that you need to answer the question where the term northern soul was coined? If things seem cloudy it's because you want them to be so.

The old saying that edm will be edm appears to truly apply here. clarification and a deeper insight has been issued to you already. And  rejected by you. Based apon your reply adding to the education that you say you so sorely need is more than likely nearly impossible. 

The Sharing of the knowledge of which you speak has been shared with you and explained pretty well I might add,  RESULT  rejected.
Typical and some what expected. But hope for the and thou was present. It really was. and to a degree still is.

The only thing that really and actually fails here is your ability to Honestly and Truly comprehend.  "Your issue"  Not mine.  I believe you can work on that. It's never to late.

The decision to enlighten you, as you have phrased it was made from the first posting. With the expectation that responses such as yours and others would be forth coming.

Never the less, You guys are still entitled to the truth of the matter,  "Where the term (Northern Soul) was coined" 

patronizing or not, in the spirit of honesty and truth you really honestly and truthfully do not get it. Or are choosing not to get it.

Dear Sir:  A sure fire way of hastening a history's demise is to completely turn it over to those who have no "TRUE" desire to understand or acknowledge it and all of it's historical challenges and nuances in all it's fields of endeavor. Including the simple act of coining that which they created.

You can continue to believe that some guy put some 45's in a box set them apart from 45's of different genres and called them northern soul records  OR

you can use your god given common sense, put 2 and 2 together and  come to the understanding that just like the term Motown sound, Philly sound, Chi-Town sound, ect. The term Northern soul sound 'NORTHERN SOUL" also comes from and was actually coined by the same African American Community. From which all soul comes from.  I'd prefer you choose the 2nd option, but it's your call

 

 

[Guest Musicnam101]

22 hours ago, Kegsy said:

Perhaps if you could give us a clue about "the style" of music it would help. D.C. Go-Go seems to be a particular fusion of Soul/Latin/Jazz, would this description also fit the music played by the wandering Northern/Southern Soul Brothers, using your terminology ?.

Or did the Northern/Southern Soul Brothers have their own styles that differed from D.C. Go Go.

 

Keep reading and researching. You are on the right track.

Keep reading.

[Kegsy]

1 hour ago, Musicnam101 said:

Keep reading and researching. You are on the right track.

Keep reading.

As far as I can see we are talking the Chitlins Circuit here. We all know, various cities in the U.S. had clearly identifiable musical styles be it Blues,Soul,Jazz or whatever. Therefore I have concluded that it's pretty obvious that the term "northern soul brothers" could have been used to describe artists from New York, Chicago etc. AND their own particular sound. However I can't find any evidence of the term being used, other than in the British sense.

By the way the Chitlins Circuit is nothing new to many British Soul lovers its been known about for years. Anybody who took any time at all to research the artists, who made "northern" (British usage) soul style records, quickly became aware of the Chitlins Circuit and its role in Black American music history.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Kegsy

[Dave Rimmer]

21 hours ago, macca said:

Did we get an intro? 

No. 

Give up on it lads. He's not actually provided any information to support the rubbish he's made up. 

Wind up merchant or nutter that chooses which posts to reply to very carefully. 

[Kegsy]

31 minutes ago, Dave Rimmer said:

No. 

Give up on it lads. He's not actually provided any information to support the rubbish he's made up. 

Wind up merchant or nutter that chooses which posts to reply to very carefully. 

Good job you didn't say fanny merchant, we could have had even more confusion. 

[Gene-r]

Makes me laugh, the amount of people who still get sucked in by trolls!

[Kegsy]

10 minutes ago, Gene-R said:

Makes me laugh, the amount of people who still get sucked in by trolls!

I actually think the guy has a point, he's just isn't making it very well. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that artists from the U.S. north would be called our "northern soul brothers", soul brother being a ubiquitous term amongs't black Americans. What is causing the problem, is that the use and origins of the term is totally different on either side of the pond, something I don't think he understands.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Kegsy

[Steve L]

35 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

I actually think the guy has a point, he's just isn't making it very well. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that artists from the U.S. north would be called our "northern soul brothers", soul brother being a ubiquitous term amongs't black Americans. What is causing the problem, is that the use and origins of the term is totally different on either side of the pond, something I don't think he understands.

Its not exactly rocket science.................

Also the words chip, shoulder & on come to mind

[Kegsy]

3 hours ago, Musicnam101 said:

You can continue to believe that some guy put some 45's in a box set them apart from 45's of different genres and called them northern soul records  OR

you can use your god given common sense, put 2 and 2 together and  come to the understanding that just like the term Motown sound, Philly sound, Chi-Town sound, ect. The term Northern soul sound 'NORTHERN SOUL" also comes from and was actually coined by the same African American Community. From which all soul comes from.  I'd prefer you choose the 2nd option, but it's your call

 

 

You appear to be approaching this subject from some sort of African American heritage standpoint and trying to uphold/defend that heritage, I can fully understand that. However your approach also seems to imply that the term "northern soul" was "stolen" in some way and its roots belong in the U.S. south.

I can assure you that the term developed in the UK totally independently of any use in the U.S., there were not many, if any, subscribers to Jet magazine in the UK in those days. The term was not stolen/copied/plagarised by U.K. users, as nobody in the UK would have heard/seen it being used in the U.S.

[Kevinkent]

On 16/02/2016 at 10:20, Musicnam101 said:

53 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

55 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

 

I actually think the guy has a point, he's just isn't making it very well. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that artists from the U.S. north would be called our "northern soul brothers", soul brother being a ubiquitous term amongs't black Americans. What is causing the problem, is that the use and origins of the term is totally different on either side of the pond, something I don't think he understands.

I don't actually think he should be talking about "northern soul brothers".

I think what he really means is northern "Soul Brothers"

What we would be talking about re the UK originated scene is "Northern Soul" brothers.

There's a difference

- Kev

 

       

 

 

 

 

[Kegsy]

3 minutes ago, KevinKent said:

I don't actually think he should be talking about "northern soul brothers".

I think what he really means is northern "Soul Brothers"

What we would be talking about re the UK originated scene is "Northern Soul" brothers.

There's a difference

- Kev

Yes I know, I already said this in a post on 17th February, (where have the post numbers gone ?).

[Kevinkent]

5 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

Yes I know, I already said this in a post on 17th February, (where have the post numbers gone ?).

I know you know. We all know. We've all either said it or thought it.

I'm merely re-wording the explanation for the benefit of the one person who doesn't seem to get it..

- Kev

[Amsterdam Russ]

4 hours ago, Musicnam101 said:

You have all that you need to answer the question where the term northern soul was coined...

...the knowledge of which you speak has been shared with you and explained pretty well...

The decision to enlighten you, as you have phrased it was made from the first posting. 

...you really honestly and truthfully do not get it. Or are choosing not to get it.

Dear Sir:  A sure fire way of hastening a history's demise is to completely turn it over to those who have no "TRUE" desire to understand or acknowledge it and all of it's historical challenges and nuances in all it's fields of endeavor. Including the simple act of coining that which they created.

The term Northern soul sound 'NORTHERN SOUL" also comes from and was actually coined by the same African American Community. From which all soul comes from.

This is such a shame. I, for one, and I'm sure plenty of others here, would be delighted to find out that the term "Northern Soul" had been used to describe a musical scene, a genre, or whatever in the USA. It would add very much to our own knowledge, understanding and appreciation of the cultural development of the music we love and the people who made it. 

At the same time, even if the name "Northern Soul" was given to a cultural movement, musical style, or whatever, in the USA, it wouldn't be the same "Northern Soul" as we understand it here (as a couple of people have already pointed out). Both will have developed separately to one another and as such would mean different things to different populations and cultures - basically, they would be completely different things.

To cut to the chase, the only option is for you to provide some supporting evidence for what you say. Just one cultural reference or mention from a reliable source from the period would be a step in the right direction. If you cannot, then we cannot accept your unsupported claim no matter how fascinating it might be.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Russell Gilbert
Spelin

[Amsterdam Russ]

On 23 February 2016 at 08:17, Musicnam101 said:

Each one of your questions has already been answered.

The style is older than the early/mid/late 60's. Making actual recordings of the music started in the 60's.

If you have any clue of  how much of the African American experience and tradition is just simply not documented (Unintentionally & purposefully)

Then and maybe only then will you get it. 

 

I meant to pick up on this earlier; your statement that the term predates the music. If this is true then you are not talking about a music-centric cultural movement in the slightest, which means we're talking about completely different things.

To take the leap that the term "Northern Soul" existed before soul music came along means that it could only have been used in the context of geography. For example, the music that is made/played by those souls/people/cultures in the north. Or, the spirit/culture of people who are geographically in the north. For example, those people really have northern souls.

Basically then, we come back down to the differences between adjectives and nouns as well as the context in which the term might be used.

That wraps it up for me unless something entirely persuasive comes to light.

[Guest Musicnam101]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 03:47, Dave Rimmer said:

No. 

Give up on it lads. He's not actually provided any information to support the rubbish he's made up. 

Wind up merchant or nutter that chooses which posts to reply to very carefully. 

You have been flooded with information. And any and all Lads of your elk that cannot see this should most definitely give it up.

AND THAT'S A FACT.  TOTALLY " RUBBISH FREE "

P.S  " NUTTERS " Actually believe The term northern soul was (coined) in northern England.

Do you believe that?

 

 

[Kegsy]

24 minutes ago, Musicnam101 said:

You have been flooded with information. And any and all Lads of your elk that cannot see this should most definitely give it up.

AND THAT'S A FACT.  TOTALLY " RUBBISH FREE "

P.S  " NUTTERS " Actually believe The term northern soul was (coined) in northern England.

Do you believe that?

 

 

As has already been said, some of us on here are interested in your point of view. However your rather obtuse attitude is challenging my attention span, it would be helpful if you could point us further in the right direction, rather than arguing the toss.

[Guest Musicnam101]

21 hours ago, Kegsy said:

As has already been said, some of us on here are interested in your point of view. However your rather obtuse attitude is challenging my attention span, it would be helpful if you could point us further in the right direction, rather than arguing the toss.

I have made a valiant effort in my attempt to give as a gift insight, about the origin of the term  "NORTHERN SOUL"

If only one person that  may have been following this back and forth gets it. Then job well done.

To all that have participated in this back and forth.  "JOB WELL DONE" I have truly enjoyed this.

Agree or disagree you have been exposed to the truth. As understood from the beginning Some will fight to the bitter end to hold on dearly to a lie. And some will actually wake up. And celebrate it.

This is the final post. You guys have been great.

BE GOOD and STAY WELL.

 

 

 

  

[Jordirip]

I think I've been Tango'd.

[Shinehead]

Talking a lot and saying nowt comes to mind.