Same name groups ?

[Keeper]

I have some tunes by groups with the same name ......The Precisions  "what would you do" on Wild Records ,The Manhattans "Later for you " on Avanti ....which i believe are not the same groups as the better known ones by the same name ????.........what i really want to know is..... Are the Invitations " Watch out little Girl " MGM the same as the the "skiing in the snow " Dynovoice Invitations ???? I find it hard to believe they could be ???? Those of you that know me can understand the confusion of people having the same name 

Edited 6 minutes ago by Keeper

[Winsford Soul]

Neil. Hope your well . the Invitations are the same group mate.

From a person who has hundreds of people with the same name.  

Steve

[Kev Cane]

5 hours ago, Keeper said:

I have some tunes by groups with the same name ......The Precisions  "what would you do" on Wild Records ,The Manhattans "Later for you " on Avanti ....which i believe are not the same groups as the better known ones by the same name ????.........what i really want to know is..... Are the Invitations " Watch out little Girl " MGM the same as the the "skiing in the snow " Dynovoice Invitations ???? I find it hard to believe they could be ???? Those of you that know me can understand the confusion of people having the same name 

Edited 6 minutes ago by Keeper

Precisions (different from Drew) also recorded a Sweet soul gem on Hen Mar, "Take a good look", very very rare, so there could have been 3 groups calling themselves The Precisions

Professionals "That's why I love you" Groove City, different group from Professionals "My heart belongs to you" Action Pac who were also known as Hollywood Saxons

Kev

[Dave Rimmer]

45 minutes ago, kev cane said:

Precisions (different from Drew) also recorded a Sweet soul gem on Hen Mar, "Take a good look", very very rare, so there could have been 3 groups calling themselves The Precisions

Kev

There are Precisions groups from LA, Boston, Scranton, Detroit, and Philadelphia that I'm aware of.

https://www.soulfulkindamusic.net/precisions.htm

[Roburt]

Lots of different outfits used the name the Cavaliers (see below) ......

Also different sets of the Emotions and numerous others had the same names. Lou Ragland's Cleveland based outfit called Hot Chocolate were paid to change their name by the US record company that released stuff by the UK hit group Hot Chocolate.

 

[Roburt]

There were also different sets of Magnetics (the Detroit based outfit really being the Volumes).

Also two sets of Cashmeres -- the St Louis group being led my Mal (Rich) Adams who I know well.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Roburt

[Roburt]

There were also a few groups that took the name the Van Dykes ......... the famous southern based group who recorded for Amy / Mala / Bell PLUS some others.

One of the other outfits were Baltimore based and had "Stupidity" released by Atlantic Records ...............

 

[Roburt]

The 'Mala' Van Dykes ........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAlnapPpda4

The 'Baltimore' Van Dykes ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjqNcxrWoSg

https://articles.baltimoresun.com/1990-11-20/news/0502220470_1_van-dykes-roland-brown-bembe-beach

Edited February 15, 2016 by Roburt

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Roburt said:

There were also two different sets of Magnetics (the Detroit based outfit really being the Volumes).

Also two sets of Cashmeres -- the St Louis group being led my Mal (Rich) Adams who I know well.

There were two Detroit Magnetics, those on Allrite and the ones who were the Volumes although one of ose out of the Allrite group would join the Bonnie group.

there is also another who did unreleased work for Motown. Plus the Philly and Chicago Magnetics. 

[Roburt]

There was also the 'Golden World' Adorables and the Carolina outfit who cut for Peacock with the Don Thompson Combo.

Then there were groups that were basically different incarnations of the same outfit ..... like the Drifters / Original Drifters and the Platters / Buck Ram's Platters. Long running groups would feature numerous different line-ups / lead singers. So the 50's Clyde McPhatter version of the Drifters were totally different to the Ben E King led 60's Drifters and the same thing happened again by the 70's with the Johnny Moore led group that had hits here in the UK with Bell.

 

Edited February 15, 2016 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Numerous examples keep coming to mind. Like the Visitors from LA (TRC Records) and the Chicago group who also used the name and recorded for Dakar.

Someone should look through the Soul Harmony Groups book and lots more will be evident. I'd do it but my copy of the book is in the UK and I'm in Florida for a while still.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Roburt

[Kev Cane]

Just now, Roburt said:

Numerous examples keep coming to mind. Like the Visitors from LA (TRC Records) and the Chicago group who also used the name and recorded for Dakar.

Someone should look through the Soul Harmony Groups book and lots more will be evident. I'd do it but my copy of the book is in the UK and I'm in Florida for a while still.

Thanks for that Roburt, and here's me thinking they were the same group

Kev

[Robbk]

there are hundreds more(probably a few thousand). Just about any common word name one can think of:  The Kittens (Chicago) (New Jersey), The Kings (Bobby Hall's Baltimore group). (NY group RCA) (Southern Group), Echoes (4 Echoes) (5 Echoes) , Jesters (NY) (Texas instr. group). , Twilighters (Det.  Tony Ewing group) (NY group), Pretenders(Jimmy Jones NY) (Modern Rock group), Heartbreakers (Groove) (Tom Petty group), Rhythm Aces(VJ) (Bobby Moore group Checker), Miracles ( NY Paul Hogan group), ( Money/Cash Group) (Smokey Robinson Group), Supremes (Motown) (Ace Indianapolis group), various Dell-Vikings Del Vikings groups, Ideals (Chicago) (NY), Serenaders (Det aka Royal Jokers) (NY Bobby Robinson Group). Royals (Det. AKA Royal Jokers -Wingate/Fortune) (NJ George Kerr Group), Royals (Det. Federal) (Phil. Okeh) (NY Apollo before changing to Five Royales)), Four Buddies (Chicago-Club 51(NY Savoy) Wash.DC -Van McCoy group, Magnificents (VJ-Montague's group)(L.A. Dee Gee Group), Gems (Chi. male '50s Drexel) (Chi. female Chess Minnie Ripperton), The Flames (James Brown group) (Bay area 7-11 Group) Hollywood Flames various forms, Counts(Dot Tenn.) (Note group Indianapolis),  HiLites (NY) (Ronnie & Hi-Lites-L.A.), Highlighters.(NY) (PA), Leaders (Hull '50s) (Blue Rock '60s), Majestics(Latino L.A.FARO) (Det-Johnny Mitchell group) (Det. Richard Street Group), Palisades (AKA Cookies-NY female group), (NJ male group), Corvettes (NY R&B group) (Rock instr. group),  Constellations (Chi. Smash) (NY Violet), ........could go on forever.

There  were hundreds of rock/guitar instrumental groups that had the same name as R&B or Soul groups, male and female groups with the same name and old era group names resurrected.

Edited February 15, 2016 by RobbK

[Keeper]

12 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

Neil. Hope your well . the Invitations are the same group mate.

From a person who has hundreds of people with the same name.  

Steve

Cheers for the answer ....slightly dissapointed........the two tunes i mentioned are so apart in style and quality in my humble opinion !!!!......you could have bullshitted me !!......hope to see you and mi lady out soon xx

[clevesoulie]

There are least three Attractions groups (L.A. group on Renfro and Bell, Chicago group on June Bug, and Detroit group on De-To) and at least four Inspirations groups (L.A. guys on Breakthrough, Chicago guys on Midas, Philadelphia guys on Wand and New York girls on Black Pearl).

Would I be correct in assuming that the Citations on Ballad.and the Citations on Solid Soul are two different groups?

Best,

Mark

[Hooker1951]

Two bands called Tempests out the same time mid to late 60's less than 300 miles apart.one was fronted by Billy Storm at one point. A lot of British bands in the 1960's copied American bands names sometimes unknowingly, sometimes not. A hell of a lot of bands or groups obviously changed there line up,there music evolved over the years sometimes to a degree and not always for the better that they sounded nothing like the original sounds. You have to remember that  they were all chasing success and if they found sounds what pleased the masses they made money. Some of the stuff they made later might not sound to us NS fans but it was bread and butter to them

keep on Trucking

ML

[Robbk]

Carnival's New Jersey Manhattans, Golden World's Detroit group, and Bobby Robinson's New York's Ronnie & The Manhattans,  The '50s New Orleans Barons on Imperial, early '60s Detroit group led by Roger Craton (Lee Rogers), early '60s RCA group, late '50s Epic group, Enchanters-early 50s Detroit group on Mercer and Coral, late '50s L.A. group on Orbit Records, Billy Butler & Enchanters, Garnett Mimms' Enchanters UA, Loma (there were so many othe Enchanters groups I won't bother to mention them all (NY, Texas,etc.).

[Mal C]

The Ladybirds on Lawn Records in the US, and and the Uk Girl Group that did the backing on "A Touch of Velvet – A Sting of Brass" on Columbia, they went onto to work on the Benny hill show... :-//

Edited February 17, 2016 by Mal C

[Gilly]

23 hours ago, Hooker1951 said:

Two bands called Tempests out the same time mid to late 60's less than 300 miles apart.one was fronted by Billy Storm at one point. A lot of British bands in the 1960's copied American bands names sometimes unknowingly, sometimes not. A hell of a lot of bands or groups obviously changed there line up,there music evolved over the years sometimes to a degree and not always for the better that they sounded nothing like the original sounds. You have to remember that  they were all chasing success and if they found sounds what pleased the masses they made money. Some of the stuff they made later might not sound to us NS fans but it was bread and butter to them

keep on Trucking

ML

Glad you mentioned this only in a post a while back I pointed out that there was a group called the Tempests founded out of Michigan in the 60s but no one picked up on it

[Kev Cane]

Robb may have also mentioned it, The Parliaments, those of George Clinton fame from Detroit and the other group who recorded on Cabell

Kev

Edited February 17, 2016 by kev cane
additional info

[Robbk]

8 hours ago, kev cane said:

Robb may have also mentioned it, The Parliaments, those of George Clinton fame from Detroit and the other group who recorded on Cabell

Kev

Yes.  The Cabell group was from Louisviile, Kentucky.

[The Yank]

Here's a few more for the list-

Specials (Marc)/ Specials ( Satch) and the Specials on Two Tone were all different groups and so were  these-

Reflections (Golden World) / Reflections (Capitol)

Valentines (Rama)/ Valentines (Ludix) Valentines (Sound Stage 7)

Avons (Hull) were a different group from the one who recorded on Excello and Sound Stage 7 

  And some quick trivia - the Royals (Detroit) changed their name to the Midnighters to avoid being

confused with the Five Royales (Apollo) (who started out as the Royal Sons) who had recently signed to King.

[Simon T]

2 hours ago, RobbK said:

Yes.  The Cabell group was from Louisviile, Kentucky.

I thought they were from Huntington, West Virginia

[clevesoulie]

This extends to individual names as well...there are two Chuck Jacksons, who oddly enough both were associated with Wand Records (the famous solo artist from the '60s and the guy who was in the Independents), two Al Wilsons (the  Help Me guy and the more famous guy of Show and Tell fame), two Nancy Wilsons (the jazz/soul singer and the girl in Heart) and two guys named Tony Williams (the Platters guy and the jazz guy who played drums for Miles Davis).

Best,

Mark

[Robbk]

6 hours ago, simon t said:

I thought they were from Huntington, West Virginia

Sorry, yes, the group was from there.  But, I thought I remembered the label being distributed from Louisville.  But, now that I look on the label, it was from West Virginia, as well.  In any case, they were not Geoge Clinton's NJ/Detroit group.

[Robbk]

6 hours ago, clevesoulie said:

This extends to individual names as well...there are two Chuck Jacksons, who oddly enough both were associated with Wand Records (the famous solo artist from the '60s and the guy who was in the Independents), two Al Wilsons (the  Help Me guy and the more famous guy of Show and Tell fame), two Nancy Wilsons (the jazz/soul singer and the girl in Heart) and two guys named Tony Williams (the Platters guy and the jazz guy who played drums for Miles Davis).

Best,

Mark

And two Frank Wilsons from the L.A. Area, both of whom worked at one time, for Motown.  There were also 2 Scott Brothers Soul/R&B groups (one from Chicago, one from The East Coast).

[Shsdave]

On 17/2/2016 at 03:06, RobbK said:

Carnival's New Jersey Manhattans, Golden World's Detroit group, and Bobby Robinson's New York's Ronnie & The Manhattans,  The '50s New Orleans Barons on Imperial, early '60s Detroit group led by Roger Craton (Lee Rogers), early '60s RCA group, late '50s Epic group, Enchanters-early 50s Detroit group on Mercer and Coral, late '50s L.A. group on Orbit Records, Billy Butler & Enchanters, Garnett Mimms' Enchanters UA, Loma (there were so many othe Enchanters groups I won't bother to mention them all (NY, Texas,etc.).

Where is the Lamar label from ? There was a Barons on there as well " A teardrop fell for me"

[Gene-r]

And I've lost count of just how many American groups called themselves The Jades!

[Ernie Andrews]

Different groups called " Brothers & Sisters?

Different groups called Velvets ?

[The Yank]

There's at least 3 Velvets- the 50's Doo Wop group, the 60's group who recorded for Monument and

the Northern group with the hyphen in its name- Vel-Vets.

    Lots of Brothers and Sisters too .

[Robbk]

There wear a few different Teardrops groups, early 195os male Doo Wop group (precursors of The Mello-Dees and Love-Tones), as well as several different female '60s groups from N.Y,. The South, Michigan. There was a '50s R&B Diamonds (Atlantic) and Mercury Canadian R&R group, and Brunswick Pop group, Regals - '50s R&B (Atlantic), Pop (MGM), The Five Blind Boys (Alabama group)(Mississippi group), The Four Pennies (Female Group (AKA Chiffons). male group (Brunswick), Pastels-Chicago (United), Philadelphia (Mascot/Argo), Dynamics '50s L.A. group, '60s Detroit group, '60s Philadelphia group, '50s Texas guitar instrumental group, Dimensions ('50s R&B group), early '60s White Doo Wop group, Headliners ('50s R&B group) early '60s Pittsburgh Soul group, '60s Detroit garage group (Hideout, VIP), Chimes '50s L.A. R&B group (Specialty), '50s NY R&B group, '50s White Doo Wop Group, '60s Chicago Soul Group (Chymes).

Edited February 21, 2016 by RobbK

[Roburt]

On ‎18‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 05:03, RobbK said:

And two Frank Wilsons from the L.A. Area, both of whom worked at one time, for Motown.  

Then there was J Frank Wilson who fronted the Cavaliers on Josie (see earlier post on Cavaliers).

Can't recall his Christian name but didn't Frank Wilson's brother also cut at one time (I think I have one of his 45's at home but can't recall the details). 

[Robbk]

10 minutes ago, Roburt said:

Then there was J Frank Wilson who fronted the Cavaliers on Josie (see earlier post on Cavaliers).

Can't recall his Christian name but didn't Frank Wilson's brother also cut at one time (I think I have one of his 45's at home but can't recall the details). 

The OTHER Motown Frank Wilson's brother, Vance Wilson had a solo recording career in L.A. and the brothers were together in The Remarkables.  I don't remember the Soul Frank Wilson having a brother who recorded.  His wife, Barbara was a singer, and recorded the demo for "Every Little Bit Hurts".  As you probably know, the Eddie Wilson on Tollie was actually Frank, who also recorded as Sonny Daye.

[Roburt]

There's the Cleveland group Sly, Slick & Wicked PLUS the LA outfit of the same name fronted by Sonny Daye (but not the Frank Wilson / Sonny Daye). 

Then there were the O'Jays & the OJ's ............ see attached show ad .............

........... FOOLED YOU .......... there was only the one group but some ad writers obviously hadn't heard of them back in the mid 60's ..... he also struggled with the El Corols name ......

......  ALSO ...... in the early 60's, ad writers struggled with Billy Stewart's name see below) ......

 

Edited February 20, 2016 by Roburt

[Roburt]

RE: my own post .....  There's the Cleveland group Sly, Slick & Wicked PLUS the LA outfit of the same name fronted by Sonny Daye ..............

Both group's taking their name from the Lost Generation's hit 45 track !!

[Roburt]

Not exactly the same names ........... BUT .......

There was 60's Baltimore based outfit The Shalimars & the 70's hit makers (for SOLAR) Shalimar .....

 

[Robbk]

Then there were THREE Sonny Dayes!  Frank Wilson, the lead singer of Washington D.C.'s 4 Bars, and Tje lead of L.A.'s Sly, Slick & The Wicked.   It reminds me of how many Robert Kleins there are! 

[The Yank]

The Soul Train/ Solar group was Shalamar.

[Roburt]

15 minutes ago, the yank said:

The Soul Train/ Solar group was Shalamar.

My point still stands as I started my post with the statement ..... not exactly the same names !!

[Roburt]

2 hours ago, RobbK said:

Then there were THREE Sonny Dayes!  Frank Wilson, the lead singer of Washington D.C.'s 4 Bars, and The lead of L.A.'s Sly, Slick & The Wicked.  

So is the Sonny Daye who was the lead singer of the 4 Bars the same guy who cut for Baltimore's Ru-Jac Records (Little Sonny Daye with Shyndel's Band – I'm Through With You / A Woman Like You - 1963) or was there a 4th soul singer who used the stage / recording name of Sonny Daye.

[Robbk]

3 minutes ago, Roburt said:

So is the Sonny Daye who was the lead singer of the 4 Bars the same guy who cut for Baltimore's Ru-Jac Records (Little Sonny Daye with Shyndel's Band – I'm Through With You / A Woman Like You - 1963) or was there a 4th soul singer who used the stage / recording name of Sonny Daye.

One in the same.  Baltimore/Washington are very close, almost like twin cities.  They behave like one single metropolitan area.

[Roburt]

So the DC 4 Bars lead used both the name Sonny Daye and Eddie Daye ?

Were either his 'real name' or were they just his stage names ? 

[Robbk]

34 minutes ago, Roburt said:

So the DC 4 Bars lead used both the name Sonny Daye and Eddie Daye ?

Were either his 'real name' or were they just his stage names ? 

OEPS!!!  I thought I was READING  Eddie Daye!  No, there was no Sonny Daye with The 4 Bars.So, there were only 2 Sonny Dayes.  Sorry!  But, I am old.  I have an excuse.    I can't find an emoticon for embarrassment, so a pirate will have to do.  As The Duets sang, "Please Forgive Me".

[Dave Rimmer]

5 hours ago, RobbK said:

    I can't find an emoticon for embarrassment, so a pirate will have to do.  

Brilliant !

[Roburt]

Robb, the Baltimore / DC Sonny Daye who cut for Ru-Jac must make it at least 3 different soul Sonny Daye's.

There were also singers outside of the US that used the name Sonny Day (but I don't think they cut soul records).

I'm old too and often have very forgetful moments (hence my inability to recall Frankie Vance earlier on).

[The Yank]

There were Soulettes groups in Chicago and Detroit.

Also at least 2 or 3 Sequins groups.

Edited February 21, 2016 by the yank

[Robbk]

18 minutes ago, the yank said:

There were Soulettes groups in Chicago and Detroit.

Also at least 2 or 3 Sequins groups.

There was also a Soulettes group in L.A., and probably at the very least, 6 Sequins groups (NY(Goffin-King), Atlanta, L.A., Chicago, Detroit, East Coast (Wash/Balt.?)

[Roburt]

Seems that the Sonny Daye on Ru-Jac (Baltimore) had no connection at all with Eddie Daye (of 4 Bars fame). Full story on the 4 Bars (from an interview Eddie himself gave before his death) is here .......  https://www.uncamarvy.com/4Bars/4bars.html

So Eddie & the 4 Bars were the backing singers on the Donbut 45 by Vic Marcell (uncredited on the record label though) .....

 

 

[Robbk]

The Passions (NY White Doo-Wop group, Philadelphia Girls Group), Billy Joe & The Checkmates. The Checkmates, Checkmates, Ltd., Tangeers('60s Soul) Tangiers ('50s R&B Decca/Specialty), Voice Masters(Anna/Check-Mate-Detroit), (Bamboo-St. Louis), (Francisco-New Orleans), Dramatics (Joe Hunter/Fred Brown Detroit group -Crackerjack) (WingateVolt/Mercury Detroit Group), Blossoms(Darlene Love L.A. group) (NY Okeh group)(D.C. Blossoms- Shrine). Blue Jays('50s Chicago Chess-Checker)(Hollywood Blue Jays(AKA Hollywood Flames-L.A. '50s), (early'60s Leon Peels Group), Eagles ('50s R&B group-Mercury)('70s-present White Rock group).

[George G]

RE: above comments - Supremes on Ace were from Columbus, OH, amazingly they continued to use the name into the 1970s! There was another non-recorded Supremes from another Ohio city. 

The Originals (Suspension) from Cleveland not related to the Detroit group. A couple former members of the Outsiders were in the group.