Anything goes.....or should it?

[Tomangoes]

It seems to me that at many 'general' Northern soul events that the musical spectrum has no boundary.

So you could hear Wully Bully to Amy Winehouse and anything in between on the same night. One man's soul is another man's nightmare, so to speak.

Is that 'the way it is' or have some people simply lost the plot.

There have always been the odd 'WTF is that' kind of tune played, but there does not seem to be a mainstream genre anymore.

In the (g)'olden days' obviously the intention was to play new rare soul discoveries and perhaps new great soul releases. Since that's not totally possible anymore, and hasn't been for a very long time, it seems the 'anything goes' policy is in firm control.

Or is it just me being to fussy?

Ed

[Daved]

What about that Bob Sinclar rubbish? It's always been a broad church, with the occasional novelty record making it. As the years go by and music gets more diverse, I guess it's inevitable that the boundaries get stretched. I'm all for it providing the records are of a high quality. Unfortunately, some of the popular tunes are not.

[Peter99]

11 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

It seems to me that at many 'general' Northern soul events that the musical spectrum has no boundary.

So you could hear Wully Bully to Amy Winehouse and anything in between on the same night. One man's soul is another man's nightmare, so to speak.

Is that 'the way it is' or have some people simply lost the plot.

There have always been the odd 'WTF is that' kind of tune played, but there does not seem to be a mainstream genre anymore.

In the (g)'olden days' obviously the intention was to play new rare soul discoveries and perhaps new great soul releases. Since that's not totally possible anymore, and hasn't been for a very long time, it seems the 'anything goes' policy is in firm control.

Or is it just me being to fussy?

Ed

 

Just now, daved said:

What about that Bob Sinclar rubbish? It's always been a broad church, with the occasional novelty record making it. As the years go by and music gets more diverse, I guess it's inevitable that the boundaries get stretched. I'm all for it providing the records are of a high quality. Unfortunately, some of the popular tunes are not.

Mm, the (g)olden days. Loads of rubbish played back in the day that had nothing to do with soul.

[50 Shades]

1 hour ago, tomangoes said:

It seems to me that at many 'general' Northern soul events that the musical spectrum has no boundary.

So you could hear Wully Bully to Amy Winehouse and anything in between on the same night. One man's soul is another man's nightmare, so to speak.

"Wully Bully to Amy Winehouse" - surely that's just a jukebox at the local pub , remind us where this goes on and I'll make sure I'm a million miles away 

 

[Tomangoes]

Soul in the Sun Tenerife.

Horse and Groom Doncaster (Not chill out).

A great big melting pot indeed.

Ed

 

[Markw]

3 hours ago, tomangoes said:

It seems to me that at many 'general' Northern soul events that the musical spectrum has no boundary.

So you could hear Wully Bully to Amy Winehouse and anything in between on the same night. One man's soul is another man's nightmare, so to speak.

Is that 'the way it is' or have some people simply lost the plot.

There have always been the odd 'WTF is that' kind of tune played, but there does not seem to be a mainstream genre anymore.

In the (g)'olden days' obviously the intention was to play new rare soul discoveries and perhaps new great soul releases. Since that's not totally possible anymore, and hasn't been for a very long time, it seems the 'anything goes' policy is in firm control.

Or is it just me being to fussy?

Ed

Who puts on these events and books people to play this sort of stuff???

[Gogger]

3 hours ago, Peter99 said:

 

Mm, the (g)olden days. Loads of rubbish played back in the day that had nothing to do with soul.

depends how far back you go peter , think the good far outweighs the bad for me , got a feeling your on about wigan , some great stuff played there but some proper shite as well 

[Zed1]

Most nites are little more than a social scene for the over 50's. The genre of the music coming out the speakers matters little as long as it's danceable after the requisite amount of Stella.

"Can you play that tribute thing for me Mrs M8?"

 

[Steve G]

Has always been that way though. I remember a lawyer at work who told me he used to be into northern in the early 70s, has a loft full of records etc. I said what is your favourite? And he said "The Boys in the Band" on Spring.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Steve G

[Soulman1953]

3 hours ago, daved said:

What about that Bob Sinclar rubbish? It's always been a broad church, with the occasional novelty record making it. As the years go by and music gets more diverse, I guess it's inevitable that the boundaries get stretched. I'm all for it providing the records are of a high quality. Unfortunately, some of the popular tunes are not.

yeh dead right mate what a pile of tosh I run my own gigs and this guy asks for it every month even though I aint got it.think he must have something wrong with his ears he even asks for Gail Adams Baby I need your loving 80s disco version what an insult to the four tops Still takes all kinds to make a World  lol Sharpie

[Steve G]

Bob Sinclair is a low though I do agree. Had to endure an extra long version at one do, pain! 

[Kev Cane]

1 hour ago, tomangoes said:

Soul in the Sun Tenerife.

Horse and Groom Doncaster (Not chill out).

A great big melting pot indeed.

Ed

 

ooops, just seen (not chill out)

Edited January 29, 2016 by kev cane

[SOULCENTRAL]

1 hour ago, Zed1 said:

Most nites are little more than a social scene for the over 50's. The genre of the music coming out the speakers matters little as long as it's danceable after the requisite amount of Stella.

"Can you play that tribute thing for me Mrs M8?"

 

Here we go again!!!

[Zed1]

6 minutes ago, SOULCENTRAL said:

Here we go again!!!

Meaning?.

[SOULCENTRAL]

1 minute ago, Zed1 said:

Meaning?.

Bash the over 50s for wanting to enjoy a night out listening to music they have loved for over 30 years in a venue that has some atmosphere.

As your post above is not specific I can only assume that's what you "Mean"

[Simon T]

2 hours ago, Soulman1953 said:

 he even asks for Gail Adams Baby I need your loving 80s disco version

It would be 1982 and the guest big name DJ started off with Gail Adams, Angela Clemens - Give me just a little more time & Atlantic Starr - Circles, ask him it was also there at the Fleet that night

[Zed1]

11 minutes ago, SOULCENTRAL said:

Bash the over 50s for wanting to enjoy a night out listening to music they have loved for over 30 years

Don't recall Bob Sinclair, Duffy etc being loved by anyone 30 years ago (or 40/50 years for many of us )

Many of todays venues are little more than pensioners disco's, a Social scene very loosely based around a few dozen 'Northern Soul' records where people can meet their mates and have a late drink with (or pull) people their own age. The Music is VERY much secondary to their main reason for attending.

 

[Quinvy]

5 hours ago, Steve G said:

Has always been that way though. I remember a lawyer at work who told me he used to be into northern in the early 70s, has a loft full of records etc. I said what is your favourite? And he said "The Boys in the Band" on Spring.

I have no idea what that is thank goodness.

[Carty]

Amy Wine house, Back to Black  is one of the most soulful recordings ever made . 

[Becket]

1 hour ago, carty said:

Amy Wine house, Back to Black  is one of the most soulful recordings ever made . 

plus   "Love is a losing game"  is pretty fantastic in its own right also.

[Davenpete]

The boss says that when he first started going (Wheel) everyone owned a copy of Stay With Me (and indeed a lot of em loved the Stones too) but that didn't mean they should be or ever were played during the time when northern had become 'northern'.

I think the watering down of the scene and the changing of the sound to suit DJs or audiences personal tastes is the biggest danger - I think this is partly because some people have become so obsessed with playing 'new' northern that they have lost sight of 'is it good enough?' - some of the stuff that gets posted on facebook etc etc is just crap and that's why it wasn't played back in the day (or even my day)...

As SO many have over the years my plea is to hear genuinely forgotten quality oldies and new stuff that is genuinely unknown but is genuinely good enough... Fact is there IS a finite number of tracks that are 'right' for a northern venue that sticks to its guns, but if you include the vast pantheon of great tracks of the past (many of which of course were lost in the rush of new things turning up) - hell I hardly ever hear much of the 'proper' northern tracks I really LOVE (I KNOW a lot of em are rare, but so is a lot of the dirgy shite that people ARE playing) - you could literally DJ for days and days with this stuff unrepeated without dropping the quality and without 90% of people having heard it more than once or twice in the last 10 years (it was this that to my mind Lifeline did so wonderfully).

In my past Ska/Reggae, full-on Latin, psyche and early RnB were very popular too amongst nighter goers (indeed I collected A LOT of full-on RnB in the late 80s - I never played it at 'northern' nighters nor thought it should be myself), more recently funky northern and salsa type stuff - it's OK to like em, just don't convince yourself they're 'northern' because you want to be 'allowed' to like it without feeling you're betraying your northern roots.

So I guess my view is that a pure scene WILL survive, but ONLY if it sticks to its musical guns - the greatest danger is that it will be watered down into a homogeneous mush of vaguely dance soul sounding pop - because if there's nothing to make it stand out, there's no reason to get into it as opposed to anything else.

I remember meeting a guy outside the 100 Club in the 80s who had been a serious mod in the 60s - never missed a Flamingo - and stopped going when it closed - he was worried sick that the sound of 'soul' had been turned into some pale shadow and was literally in tears when he got in and heard it was still 'right' - I don't want to be him myself in 20 years standing in a venue in tears because I've discovered it's become some kiss me quick, 'now that's what I call northern' jivebunny theme park version of the real thing - better that it contracts to a tiny group of people into the real thing.

Dx

Edited January 30, 2016 by DaveNPete

[Little-stevie]

With the amount of events i would think it rather silly with all the views from the odd club.. Its a rich and vibrant scene, you may have to travel to find it but aint that part of the challenge... I guess some want it all at the end of the street.... There is much in the middle of Wooly Booly and Amy Whinehouse, thank the lord... If you cant find something from the ammount of events listed then there is no hope for you.... We have a tradition of " searching for soul"... In the words of Marvin " seek and you will find "

Edited January 30, 2016 by little-stevie

[Markw]

41 minutes ago, little-stevie said:

With the amount of events i would think it rather silly with all the views from the odd club.. Its a rich and vibrant scene, you may have to travel to find it but aint that part of the challenge... I guess some want it all at the end of the street.... There is much in the middle of Wooly Booly and Amy Whinehouse, thank the lord... If you cant find something from the ammount of events listed then there is no hope for you.... We have a tradition of " searching for soul"... In the words of Marvin " seek and you will find "

Wisest words I have read on this thread.

My two pen'orth of views, for what they are worth. Northern Soul is much, much less about a stylised type of sound than some would have you believe. It has always been broad and encompassed many types of soul and, yes folks - it's true, funk. Sure, there is a core traditional 'Northern Soul' sound that we have all loved over the years, but it spreads its net out so wide that this traditional sound is not the whole spectrum by any means. That is why the sound and tastes have changed and shifted all the time over the years - stompers, Modern, beat ballads, R&B, funk-edged, deep funk and so on and so on. Those that wish to pigeon hole it into a particular narrow sound miss the real point about Northern Soul which is that it is much more about a state of mind of digging out and championing forgotten, lost, undiscovered, unissued vintage 'music-of-black-origin' to use a phrase invented in the last 20/25 years. For this reason, I personally don't support the playing of stuff like Amy Whinehouse, Duffy etc etc - not because they aren't great music or don't have their roots in rhythm & blues music, soul etc. But because they have their popular, mainstream market and there is so much more that could be dug out and played instead. That to me is about the ethos and real spirit of Northern Soul rather than adherence to a stylised perception of what type of sound constitutes Northern Soul. 

All that said, if that's what folk want to hear when they go out, then who am I to criticise? As Steve says above, there is a lot of choice out there if you are inclined to seek it out. Make your choice and allow others to do the same.

[Quinvy]

3 hours ago, DaveNPete said:

The boss says that when he first started going (Wheel) everyone owned a copy of Stay With Me (and indeed a lot of em loved the Stones too) but that didn't mean they should be or ever were played during the time when northern had become 'northern'.

I think the watering down of the scene and the changing of the sound to suit DJs or audiences personal tastes is the biggest danger - I think this is partly because some people have become so obsessed with playing 'new' northern that they have lost sight of 'is it good enough?' - some of the stuff that gets posted on facebook etc etc is just crap and that's why it wasn't played back in the day (or even my day)...

As SO many have over the years my plea is to hear genuinely forgotten quality oldies and new stuff that is genuinely unknown that is genuinely good enough... Fact is there IS a finite number of tracks that are 'right' for a northern venue that sticks to its guns, but if you include the vast pantheon of great tracks of the past (many of which of course were lost in the rush of new things turning up) - hell I hardly ever hear much of the 'proper' northern tracks I really LOVE (I KNOW a lot of em are rare, but so is a lot of the dirgy shite that people ARE playing) - you could literally DJ for days and days with this stuff unrepeated without dropping the quality and without 90% of people having heard it more than once or twice in the last 10 years (it was this that to my mind Lifeline did so wonderfully).

In my past Ska/Reggae, full-on Latin, psyche and early RnB were very popular too amongst nighter goers (indeed I collected A LOT of full-on RnB in the late 80s - I never played it at 'northern' nighters nor thought it should be myself), more recently funky northern and salsa type stuff - it's OK to like em, just don't convince yourself they're 'northern' because you want to be 'allowed' to like it without feeling you're betraying your northern roots.

So I guess my view is that a pure scene WILL survive, but ONLY if it sticks to its musical guns - the greatest danger is that it will be watered down into a hermogenous mush of vaguely dance soul sounding pop - because if there's nothing to make it stand out, there's no reason to get into it as opposed to anything else.

I remember meeting a guy outside the 100 Club in the 80s who had been a serious mod in the 60s - never missed a Flamingo - and stopped going when it closed - he was worried sick that the sound of 'soul' had been turned into some pale shadow and was literally in tears when he got in and heard it was still 'right' - I don't want to be him myself in 20 years standing in a venue in tears because I've discovered it's become some kiss me quick, 'now that's what I call northern' jivebunny theme park version of the real thing - better that it contracts to a tiny group of people into the real thing.

Dx

At last a kindred spirit, and best post I've read on here. Amen!

[Daved]

I read in the Look In Your Box forum that Mario Biondi has had plays out recently at a northern do. FFS! 

[Jordirip]

23 hours ago, carty said:

Amy Wine house, Back to Black  is one of the most soulful recordings ever made . 

She sounds like a goat.

 

[Quinvy]

1 hour ago, jordirip said:

She sounds like a goat.

 

The goat would have had more sense.

[Russ Vickers]

!

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by Russ Vickers
Managed to post on the wrong thread...duh !!!

[hullsoul]

Simple people don't take Green & Clears anymore........bet Wully Bully would sound great off ya tits

Cheers

Martyn

[Daved]

5 hours ago, Russ Vickers said:

Ok I have only really skipped through this thread TBH, but I understand why we have to have a debate about it.

Here's my take:

There are too many promoters/promotions already without adding download nights.

There are too many DJ's already without adding Laptop Jocks.

There isnt one main regular venue a la Wheel/Torch/Casino that is a must attend, where the new is played alongside the old & we all congregate & get excited about attending, we're all too spread out over many genres & venues, without adding to that further.

So do we really need to add to the already overloaded soul calendar with download nights ?. Especially as only tracks that are 'available' could be played, which kinda defeats the object for me.  We are an elitist scene, that is what attracts people to it, along with the music of course, people want to feel special, like they are doing something that is different & that they are part of an elite clique, by playing downloads we're just advancing the nostalgia side of the scene, it wont make it better, it will just dilute it further.

Download nights would only ever appeal to people who probably wouldnt take things any further than that particular event & it would be a night on the lash, with potentially leg over & chips with Tracy at the end, if she'd downed enough Babycham.  It would serve no purpose in advancing or broadening the appeal of NS as a whole & TBH who needs even more DJ's, albeit playing from a laptop.

Pandoras box is open, downloads are out there, they cant be put back in.  My thoughts are that many of the best tracks are either illegal or extremely poor quality.  I think if some enterprising person, put together a very proffessionally made & managed web sight, that anyone with a passing interest would find when Googling NS, that made available for sale, legal, good quality downloads of classic Northern/Modern Soul records for a nominal fee, & maybe a truthful, historically accurate history of the scene, venues & DJ's it would be invaluable to those people curious enough to want to investigate & hopefully take things a little further by attending a traditional event after listening to the 'sounds' & knowing something about it all.  Thats how we should be utilising technology, & also to stop the bootleggers & make legal good quality downloads available to those that want them for thier personal use.

And finally...........there are lots of younger people finding NS, attending, dancing, collecting etc, etc, just like we did....ask them if they would like to attend a 'download' night, I know what the answer would be.....I think this last point, says it all really, those that take it seriously dont want the format to change, unless of course its a previously unreleased track, only available via download !.

Best Russ

 

After all that typing, you've added it to the wrong thread Russ

[SOULCENTRAL]

On ‎29‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 19:11, Zed1 said:

Don't recall Bob Sinclair, Duffy etc being loved by anyone 30 years ago (or 40/50 years for many of us )

Many of todays venues are little more than pensioners disco's, a Social scene very loosely based around a few dozen 'Northern Soul' records where people can meet their mates and have a late drink with (or pull) people their own age. The Music is VERY much secondary to their main reason for attending.

 

 

1 hour ago, daved said:

After all that typing, you've added it to the wrong thread Russ

If this is your view then your obviously speaking from experience having visited, by choice, "Many" of the venues you denigrate. If this is the case you need to take the blinkers off and give your head a shake because there are many venues out there that do not susbscribe to your view, either musically or the social aspect of them.

Personally I have not been to a venue where Duffy or Bob Sinclair have been played as one of the highlights of a particular dj's spot and neither would I frequent such a venue. No doubt venues do exist that will fall into your ethos of a Northern Soul night and play every week/month thirty or so of the top 500 but for me these will be little more than small pub/club do's and are few and far between and hopefully their demise will be quick .

[Hill868]

On 1/29/2016 at 19:07, simon t said:

It would be 1982 and the guest big name DJ started off with Gail Adams, Angela Clemens - Give me just a little more time & Atlantic Starr - Circles, ask him it was also there at the Fleet that night

Is this Soul Sam you are on about, Atlantic Starr fantastic sound, the other 2 cover versions of 60's classics, obviously had to have some spins as new versions. Always been a mix of great Soul sounds and questionable dirge, Wigan, Peterboro', Stafford, etc.

[Carty]

17 hours ago, jordirip said:

She sounds like a goat.

 

Well , no accounting for taste , but that album hits the spot for me .   I,m not suggesting that  Amy Winehouse should be played at Northern or Rare soul nights , just that dont let the fact that its not rare , and 50 years old blind you to the fact that very occasionally  someone comes along that that oozes the very essence of soulfulness .   Also the Dap Kings instrumentation , that is the real deal in any bodys book . 

[Hooker1951]

There,s no pretend soul or should I say pretentious soul music been played at Stateside in the three years it's been running even if some of the recordings are not to your personal tastes because myself and Andy Mcabe would never let things slip that far,. Although we cover the full Soul Spectrum we never take our eyes of the target which is Real soul music,. Real soul people that is not a complicated equasion. People have a choice what they like and visit those venues accordingly. It's a fact with any type of music that it gets watered down, it happened with Rock n Roll,R n B,Rave,. To suit for   those who it's much to strong, for they like to play at it,. Where as hard core fans love it being the bollocks all the time,. Hence the threads on here, and that's why we're different and proud of it.The difference is we are Old  Souls been here before,. They are new souls with a lot of living to do that's not an insult to them it's just the way it is.

Best Wishes Keep on Pressing on

Mick L

[Jordirip]

2 hours ago, carty said:

Well , no accounting for taste , but that album hits the spot for me .   I,m not suggesting that  Amy Winehouse should be played at Northern or Rare soul nights , just that dont let the fact that its not rare , and 50 years old blind you to the fact that very occasionally  someone comes along that that oozes the very essence of soulfulness .   Also the Dap Kings instrumentation , that is the real deal in any bodys book . 

Agree with you Carty on the Dap Kings instrumentation, but I would rather have Sharon Jones than Amy all day long.

 

[Dave Pinch]

On 29/01/2016 at 22:29, Quinvy said:

I have no idea what that is thank goodness.

its a record ive seen lots of times over the years phil..but i still cant think what it goes like..not gonna you tube it either..i`ll leave it where it is

[Carty]

39 minutes ago, jordirip said:

Agree with you Carty on the Dap Kings instrumentation, but I would rather have Sharon Jones than Amy all day long.

 

Yes, well I would also have loved that album to have been made by her and feel she was cynically  edged out  , i cannot however deny that for me , the finished product is a masterpiece .

[Geeselad]

The enduring nature of the NS is down to the way it has constantly evolved, rather than being like bugs in Amber, or teds in drapes, Northern has always shirked a retro tag, instead opting to be still relevant and contemporary whatever the era.

Trouble is in the past the evolution was in the hands of DJ's and collectors with a certain degree of musical knowledge and credible but uncompromising taste. With the demise of the rare scene and the annexing of the upfront and moderns scenes respectively its now in the hands of CD and pressing waving sad sacks who are in the main youthclub wannabe's, who's kids have grown up. Filling the floor with lowest common denominator shite masquerading as innovation is the name of the game.

 

[Geeselad]

7 hours ago, SOULCENTRAL said:

 

If this is your view then your obviously speaking from experience having visited, by choice, "Many" of the venues you denigrate. If this is the case you need to take the blinkers off and give your head a shake because there are many venues out there that do not susbscribe to your view, either musically or the social aspect of them.

Personally I have not been to a venue where Duffy or Bob Sinclair have been played as one of the highlights of a particular dj's spot and neither would I frequent such a venue. No doubt venues do exist that will fall into your ethos of a Northern Soul night and play every week/month thirty or so of the top 500 but for me these will be little more than small pub/club do's and are few and far between and hopefully their demise will be quick .

there all over the place pal, and are now the mainstream!

[Quinvy]

3 hours ago, dave pinch said:

its a record ive seen lots of times over the years phil..but i still cant think what it goes like..not gonna you tube it either..i`ll leave it where it is

I think that would be very wise Dave.