Current Bootleg Trading (split from Soul Pack thread)

[Marc Forrest]

2 hours ago, Pete S said:

but apart from that, thanks Pete

But apart from that, thanks Pete

[Pete S]

Here are two photos of The Greater Experience record.

I've just scanned these now, on the same scanner, so they should be accurate.

The first one is the original.  The second one is the lookalike.

 

[Frankie Crocker]

The swirly effect is a real giveaway and has been evident on US bootlegs for a long time. I suspect this is a modern by-product of the technology used as it looks like an ink-jet type label rather than a stuck on paper label, but not being an expert, this is a guess. Of more concern would be the source of the actual music - assuming the fakers have not used the master tapes, they have dubbed from originals and tweaked the sound digitally, again more guesswork.  Whatever the story, it looks like owners of high end rarities are in cahoots with a dodgy sound engineer, label forger and a pressing plant operator open to shady business. Darren Brown has sensibly published a list of these counterfeits and offered to validate any recent purchases bought as originals that may be forgeries. It is worrying that any collector or dealer would get embroiled in this conspiracy.

[Pete S]

4 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

The swirly effect is a real giveaway and has been evident on US bootlegs for a long time. I suspect this is a modern by-product of the technology used as it looks like an ink-jet type label rather than a stuck on paper label, but not being an expert, this is a guess. Of more concern would be the source of the actual music - assuming the fakers have not used the master tapes, they have dubbed from originals and tweaked the sound digitally, again more guesswork.  Whatever the story, it looks like owners of high end rarities are in cahoots with a dodgy sound engineer, label forger and a pressing plant operator open to shady business. Darren Brown has sensibly published a list of these counterfeits and offered to validate any recent purchases bought as originals that may be forgeries. It is worrying that any collector or dealer would get embroiled in this conspiracy.

Darren Brown has published a list?  I've done a complete dossier on them if you read nback through the thread.

[Frankie Crocker]

11 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Darren Brown has published a list?  I've done a complete dossier on them if you read nback through the thread.

Cheers Pete, credit where it is due. It is most useful to have this info out in the open.

[Pete S]

Just now, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Cheers Pete, credit where it is due. It is most useful to have this info out in the open.

He hasn't done a "lookalike" of mine has he LOL anyway since when has Darren had the copies to refer to?  I know he might have the originals.

[Woodbutcher]

16 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

 Darren Brown has sensibly published a list of these counterfeits and offered to validate any recent purchases bought as originals that may be forgeries. 

Don't recall any input from Darren on any of the recent debates regarding these counterfeits , it is Pete Smith that has kindly compiled the list including run-off details and supplied scans .

[Frankie Crocker]

1 minute ago, WoodButcher said:

Don't recall any input from Darren on any of the recent debates regarding these counterfeits , it is Pete Smith that has kindly compiled the list including run-off details and supplied scans .

No, but Darren warned us by email as the story was breaking. Credit to Pete for giving us the details identifying the fakes. 

[Swifty]

30 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

The swirly effect is a real giveaway and has been evident on US bootlegs for a long time. I suspect this is a modern by-product of the technology used as it looks like an ink-jet type label rather than a stuck on paper label, but not being an expert, this is a guess. Of more concern would be the source of the actual music - assuming the fakers have not used the master tapes, they have dubbed from originals and tweaked the sound digitally, again more guesswork.  Whatever the story, it looks like owners of high end rarities are in cahoots with a dodgy sound engineer, label forger and a pressing plant operator open to shady business. Darren Brown has sensibly published a list of these counterfeits and offered to validate any recent purchases bought as originals that may be forgeries. It is worrying that any collector or dealer would get embroiled in this conspiracy.

The thing is mate , Ink Jet printers don't print in circles , the print heads print horizontal that's what made me think it could actually be swirls on the vinyl ?

just my thoughts 

Cheers

Swifty

[Frankie Crocker]

18 minutes ago, SWIFTY said:

The thing is mate , Ink Jet printers don't print in circles , the print heads print horizontal that's what made me think it could actually be swirls on the vinyl ?

just my thoughts 

Cheers

Swifty

Yep, could well be. Or something in the pressing process. Or maybe in the label drying process perhaps. Really not too sure but do know that all swirly label records need to be treated with caution as they are coming off a modern press. Any vinyl record pressing plant operators out there who could shed some light on this one?

[Soul-slider]

3 hours ago, Pete S said:

Here are two photos of The Greater Experience record.

I've just scanned these now, on the same scanner, so they should be accurate.

The first one is the original.  The second one is the lookalike.

 

Great looking boot! I see the fake has black lettering rather than blue on the original. I'd buy one!

[Markw]

All kicking off again on Facebook.  Here is the latest.............................

 

THE MAGNETICS - "I HAVE A GIRL" b/w "LOVE & DEVOTION". - Ra-Sel Recording Co. #7104
A moderator of Rare Soul Talk received information and that information has been relayed here.
It is posted in a genuine effort to prevent buyers paying full market rate for what they believe to be original records, when in fact they are purchasing a counterfeit or fake. The record concerned is high value and hence it is posted on this forum to make any innocent parties and potential buyers aware and for them to check what they are buying is real. It’s in the public interest. An original has sold for USD 5561 – a fake is worth maybe USD 80
The dj concerned will not speak about the matter on here. Please do not message them. They have been very kind to allow the details to become known. A genuine wish to help others. I have spoken with them on pm messages in Facebook and on the telephone.

Sean Chapman, a long established dj purchased the above record. The record was sold to Sean as an original at a fair price deemed to be the market rate at the time. About 3 months ago.
That record was sold as an Original. Sean paid and popped it on the shelf.
When news of the recent bootlegs surfaced a friend of Sean’s advised him to check his recent purchase.
A friend of Sean’s examined the record very recently and independently agreed that it was a bootleg counterfeit and a fake.
Sean contacted his seller. That seller was totally shocked. They have agreed to refund Sean in full without question.

The person who sold the record to Sean was asked on the telephone who sold him the 45.
<removed by site> 
The person stated that he was duped, drawn in by what is now known to be “fake stories and believable bullshit”. The record was one to keep quiet about and came from a “secret source”. It was not given to him, he paid a “fair amount” for it. It was sold as an original. He did not buy a soul pack. It was bought in late 2015.

So there you have a named example.

 

END OF COPIED STATEMENT...............

[Marc Forrest]

...respect to sean chapman for coming up with this. wonder how many are too ashamed to admit. so far none of the six buyers of greater experience boot have dared to go public with their story.

[Kegsy]

18 hours ago, markw said:

All kicking off again on Facebook.  Here is the latest.............................

 

THE MAGNETICS - "I HAVE A GIRL" b/w "LOVE & DEVOTION". - Ra-Sel Recording Co. #7104
A moderator of Rare Soul Talk received information and that information has been relayed here.
It is posted in a genuine effort to prevent buyers paying full market rate for what they believe to be original records, when in fact they are purchasing a counterfeit or fake. The record concerned is high value and hence it is posted on this forum to make any innocent parties and potential buyers aware and for them to check what they are buying is real. It’s in the public interest. An original has sold for USD 5561 – a fake is worth maybe USD 80
The dj concerned will not speak about the matter on here. Please do not message them. They have been very kind to allow the details to become known. A genuine wish to help others. I have spoken with them on pm messages in Facebook and on the telephone.

Sean Chapman, a long established dj purchased the above record. The record was sold to Sean as an original at a fair price deemed to be the market rate at the time. About 3 months ago.
That record was sold as an Original. Sean paid and popped it on the shelf.
When news of the recent bootlegs surfaced a friend of Sean’s advised him to check his recent purchase.
A friend of Sean’s examined the record very recently and independently agreed that it was a bootleg counterfeit and a fake.
Sean contacted his seller. That seller was totally shocked. They have agreed to refund Sean in full without question.

The person who sold the record to Sean was asked on the telephone who sold him the 45.
<removed by site> 
The person stated that he was duped, drawn in by what is now known to be “fake stories and believable bullshit”. The record was one to keep quiet about and came from a “secret source”. It was not given to him, he paid a “fair amount” for it. It was sold as an original. He did not buy a soul pack. It was bought in late 2015.

So there you have a named example.

 

END OF COPIED STATEMENT...............

So Sean bought it "about 3 months ago",  which is not too far away from late 2015, and the guy who sold him, what is a trophy record, bought it in late 2015. Simple question, why would somebody buy the Magnetics at a "fair amount" and then sell it almost immediately. Something does not stack up here, people who buy records of this rarity/price don't sell them on at the drop of a hat. It would be nice to know who the middle man was. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there isn't much to be explained by Ian about this fiasco, but is there any proof, as yet, he tried to deceive people by selling these lookalikes, other than your post above ?. 

[Pete S]

18 hours ago, markw said:

All kicking off again on Facebook.  Here is the latest.............................

 

THE MAGNETICS - "I HAVE A GIRL" b/w "LOVE & DEVOTION". - Ra-Sel Recording Co. #7104
A moderator of Rare Soul Talk received information and that information has been relayed here.
It is posted in a genuine effort to prevent buyers paying full market rate for what they believe to be original records, when in fact they are purchasing a counterfeit or fake. The record concerned is high value and hence it is posted on this forum to make any innocent parties and potential buyers aware and for them to check what they are buying is real. It’s in the public interest. An original has sold for USD 5561 – a fake is worth maybe USD 80
The dj concerned will not speak about the matter on here. Please do not message them. They have been very kind to allow the details to become known. A genuine wish to help others. I have spoken with them on pm messages in Facebook and on the telephone.

Sean Chapman, a long established dj purchased the above record. The record was sold to Sean as an original at a fair price deemed to be the market rate at the time. About 3 months ago.
That record was sold as an Original. Sean paid and popped it on the shelf.
When news of the recent bootlegs surfaced a friend of Sean’s advised him to check his recent purchase.
A friend of Sean’s examined the record very recently and independently agreed that it was a bootleg counterfeit and a fake.
Sean contacted his seller. That seller was totally shocked. They have agreed to refund Sean in full without question.

The person who sold the record to Sean was asked on the telephone who sold him the 45.
<removed by site> 
The person stated that he was duped, drawn in by what is now known to be “fake stories and believable bullshit”. The record was one to keep quiet about and came from a “secret source”. It was not given to him, he paid a “fair amount” for it. It was sold as an original. He did not buy a soul pack. It was bought in late 2015.

So there you have a named example.

 

END OF COPIED STATEMENT...............

And renowned record dealer Sean didn't notice the record wasn't an original.

17 hours ago, Kegsy said:

So Sean bought it "about 3 months ago",  which is not too far away from late 2015, and the guy who sold him, what is a trophy record, bought it in late 2015. Simple question, why would somebody buy the Magnetics at a "fair amount" and then sell it almost immediately. Something does not stack up here, people who buy records of this rarity/price don't sell them on at the drop of a hat. It would be nice to know who the middle man was. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there isn't much to be explained by Ian about this fiasco, but is there any proof, as yet, he tried to deceive people by selling these lookalikes, other than your post above ?. 

Paid for it, popped it on the shelf, didn't bother playing it or djing with it.  Waste of time buying it then eh?

[Pete S]

1 hour ago, Marc Forrest said:

...respect to sean chapman for coming up with this. wonder how many are too ashamed to admit. so far none of the six buyers of greater experience boot have dared to go public with their story.

The Greater Experience I posted up yesterday was sold in late November, and was also one of a small batch obtained from a member of the group and was an original.  It was bought from the countrys or worlds top dealer.  

[Bridgesoceity]

1 hour ago, Pete S said:

And renowned record dealer Sean didn't notice the record wasn't an original.

Paid for it, popped it on the shelf, didn't bother playing it or djing with it.  Waste of time buying it then eh?

 

[Headsy]

It would seem reasonable that person A bought it at a price that allowed him to sell it onto B and make a profit, whatever that was, people do that all the time.

The smart thing is price it just at the right point for person A to want to buy it.

they might have got it 500-1,000 less than they sold it for.

they call it record dealing and many people do it on different scales.

I have heard you can make a living doing this.

[Markw]

14 hours ago, Pete S said:

(1) And renowned record dealer Sean didn't notice the record wasn't an original.

(2) Paid for it, popped it on the shelf, didn't bother playing it or djing with it.  Waste of time buying it then eh?

(1) Well the bootleg clearly did its job then, didn't it? Its makers and apologists must be proud of such an achievement - it was designed to deceive and that's just what it did. What an offensive and unnecessary remark against a decent person? What has Sean done to you to hold him in such contempt?

(2) What business is it of yours what anybody does with their property when they acquire it? Another unnecessary and contemptuous comment.

Such comments do little to enhance your own reputation Pete. Why the need to try to denigrate Sean in such a cheap manner?

[Pete S]

38 minutes ago, markw said:

(1) Well the bootleg clearly did its job then, didn't it? Its makers and apologists must be proud of such an achievement - it was designed to deceive and that's just what it did. What an offensive and unnecessary remark against a decent person? What has Sean done to you to hold him in such contempt?

(2) What business is it of yours what anybody does with their property when they acquire it? Another unnecessary and contemptuous comment.

Such comments do little to enhance your own reputation Pete. Why the need to try to denigrate Sean in such a cheap manner?

Why the need for you to poke your nose in and reply to every comment I make on this group, go and stalk someone else who might have the slightest interest in your non-stop, petty jibes.  

[Markw]

57 minutes ago, markw said:

Such comments do little to enhance your own reputation Pete. Why the need to try to denigrate Sean in such a cheap manner?

 

16 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Why the need for you to poke your nose in and reply to every comment I make on this group, go and stalk someone else who might have the slightest interest in your non-stop, petty jibes.  

I rest my case.

[Bridgesoceity]

28 minutes ago, Pete S said:

Why the need for you to poke your nose in and reply to every comment I make on this group, go and stalk someone else who might have the slightest interest in your non-stop, petty jibes.  

So belittling Sean about not spotting the boot leg is not a petty jibe then ?

[Kegsy]

38 minutes ago, romulus said:

So belittling Sean about not spotting the boot leg is not a petty jibe then ?

I would be more interested to know if the middle man between Ian Levine and Sean Chapman was 100% confident it was an original.

[Bridgesoceity]

That's not the point I was making.

 

[Woodbutcher]

It allegedly went through three hands before Sean saw it so there's a lot of grey surrounding its journey ... 

[Kegsy]

5 minutes ago, WoodButcher said:

It allegedly went through three hands before Sean saw it so there's a lot of grey surrounding its journey ... 

Are you saying said record was bought and sold 3/4 four times in a matter of months ? If so there must have been a lot of chatter on the scene regarding whether it was the same copy or whether there was more than one etc. We all know its very hard to keep secrets on this scene about records, especially a piece like this. Besides that's not what it says in the quoted face book posting.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Kegsy

[Woodbutcher]

3 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

Are you saying said record was bought and sold 3/4 four times in a matter of months ? If so there must have been a lot of chatter on the scene regarding whether it was the same copy or whether there was more than one etc. We all know its very hard to keep secrets on this scene about records, especially a piece like this. Besides that's not what it says in the quoted face book posting.

Just reporting what was said on FB after the statement was posted , unfortunately the thread has been removed by FB now so can't remember who made the claim.

Sod's law says it went before I had a chance to record it for future reference , unlike the other two that I saved.

[Ted Massey]

it went from the original source, to a another then to a another then Sean, i know the name of the person Sean bought it of and he did tell who the other person was but i have forgot and you can draw your own conclusions as to who the original source is 

[Kegsy]

10 minutes ago, Ted Massey said:

it went from the original source, to a another then to a another then Sean, i know the name of the person Sean bought it of and he did tell who the other person was but i have forgot and you can draw your own conclusions as to who the original source is 

The question is did big money change hands EVERY time, especially from the original source,  given that at least 3 people have received these records for free by the looks of it.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Kegsy

[Mike]

after receiving a complaint a comment in a post above has been removed and follow on quotes likewise edited

 

 

 

[Guest chorleybloke]

On 29/01/2016 at 20:50, Quinvy said:

Indeed the Don Gardner single looks and sounds really good. I bought one myself just to record for personal use, then sold it on.

It's quite realistic from a distance but next to each other it's easy to identify the real one.  What I don't really understand is why a lot of effort was obviously put into creating a lookalike.

[Quinvy]

36 minutes ago, chorleybloke said:

It's quite realistic from a distance but next to each other it's easy to identify the real one.  What I don't really understand is why a lot of effort was obviously put into creating a lookalike.

Why indeed, and strange that these other records appear to have been done at the same plant.

[Daved]

On 23/01/2016 at 13:52, Steve G said:

Motown album tracks I believe.

Which Valarie Simpson track was it?

[Sebastian]

1 hour ago, daved said:

Which Valarie Simpson track was it?

"Sinner Man".

[Mellorful]

On 2/1/2016 at 10:16, markw said:

(1) Well the bootleg clearly did its job then, didn't it? Its makers and apologists must be proud of such an achievement - it was designed to deceive and that's just what it did. What an offensive and unnecessary remark against a decent person? What has Sean done to you to hold him in such contempt?

(2) What business is it of yours what anybody does with their property when they acquire it? Another unnecessary and contemptuous comment.

Such comments do little to enhance your own reputation Pete. Why the need to try to denigrate Sean in such a cheap manner?

So what you appear to say is, a of mate of yours knows someone who's next door neighbour's uncle twice removed said.......... therefore it must must be both accurate and true! In your position as presiding judge on the tittle tattle you find IL guilty of deception.

Oh dear IL has already said he had the records pressed up and there is no evidence he has sold them for the purpose of making a profit; but he has admitted gifting several to friends etc.

Sorry Mark your argument sucks as regards finger pointing at IL;  you may have a point about IL's mates if they have tried to palm em off as originals but even then its still he said/she said.  Pete is right - It's a cheap shot.

Personally I think its a nice gesture when mates go to the trouble of pressing up some rare records and gifting them to you, I wonder if your approach would differ should you be a mate who had received a nice gift like that. 

I have no vested interest as I'm not a beneficiary, seller or buyer. My observation suggests that there is a Anti IL lobby having a dig at an individual who is unable to defend himself (health and access reasons), I think some may call that bullying.  I wonder if that bullying is founded on the politics of envy, a talented DJ who broke more tunes than any other on the scene becomes vulnerable and out come the knives. The politics of envy is bloody ugly. 

Personally I feel we owe a debt of gratitude to many of those influential DJ's who made the scene what it is (ie from the Wheel, Torch, Casino Mecca etc)

 Stu

[Quinvy]

11 minutes ago, mellorful said:

So what you appear to say is, a of mate of yours knows someone who's next door neighbour's uncle twice removed said.......... therefore it must must be both accurate and true! In your position as presiding judge on the tittle tattle you find IL guilty of deception.

Oh dear IL has already said he had the records pressed up and there is no evidence he has sold them for the purpose of making a profit; but he has admitted gifting several to friends etc.

Sorry Mark your argument sucks as regards finger pointing at IL;  you may have a point about IL's mates if they have tried to palm em off as originals but even then its still he said/she said.  Pete is right - It's a cheap shot.

Personally I think its a nice gesture when mates go to the trouble of pressing up some rare records and gifting them to you, I wonder if your approach would differ should you be a mate who had received a nice gift like that. 

I have no vested interest as I'm not a beneficiary, seller or buyer. My observation suggests that there is a Anti IL lobby having a dig at an individual who is unable to defend himself (health and access reasons), I think some may call that bullying.  I wonder if that bullying is founded on the politics of envy, a talented DJ who broke more tunes than any other on the scene becomes vulnerable and out come the knives. The politics of envy is bloody ugly. 

Personally I feel we owe a debt of gratitude to many of those influential DJ's who made the scene what it is (ie from the Wheel, Torch, Casino Mecca etc)

 Stu

What a load of rubbish. IL could have put as many rare records as he wanted to on a Cd or other non vinyl format if he wanted to give them to friends. Nobody would have given a monkeys. Even if he had made vinyl records with plain white labels or with labels that were obviously not originals, again, nobody would care less. It's the attempt to counterfeit rare records that is upsetting people.

[Chalky]

27 minutes ago, mellorful said:

So what you appear to say is, a of mate of yours knows someone who's next door neighbour's uncle twice removed said.......... therefore it must must be both accurate and true! In your position as presiding judge on the tittle tattle you find IL guilty of deception.

Oh dear IL has already said he had the records pressed up and there is no evidence he has sold them for the purpose of making a profit; but he has admitted gifting several to friends etc.

Sorry Mark your argument sucks as regards finger pointing at IL;  you may have a point about IL's mates if they have tried to palm em off as originals but even then its still he said/she said.  Pete is right - It's a cheap shot.

Personally I think its a nice gesture when mates go to the trouble of pressing up some rare records and gifting them to you, I wonder if your approach would differ should you be a mate who had received a nice gift like that. 

I have no vested interest as I'm not a beneficiary, seller or buyer. My observation suggests that there is a Anti IL lobby having a dig at an individual who is unable to defend himself (health and access reasons), I think some may call that bullying.  I wonder if that bullying is founded on the politics of envy, a talented DJ who broke more tunes than any other on the scene becomes vulnerable and out come the knives. The politics of envy is bloody ugly. 

Personally I feel we owe a debt of gratitude to many of those influential DJ's who made the scene what it is (ie from the Wheel, Torch, Casino Mecca etc)

 Stu

People have received the records as part of a sale though.  Others have been deceived into buying counterfeits believing they were being sold an original.  But because of someones history, because of what he has done on the scene then that is all ok then.

[Peter99]

1 hour ago, mellorful said:

So what you appear to say is, a of mate of yours knows someone who's next door neighbour's uncle twice removed said.......... therefore it must must be both accurate and true! In your position as presiding judge on the tittle tattle you find IL guilty of deception.

Oh dear IL has already said he had the records pressed up and there is no evidence he has sold them for the purpose of making a profit; but he has admitted gifting several to friends etc.

Sorry Mark your argument sucks as regards finger pointing at IL;  you may have a point about IL's mates if they have tried to palm em off as originals but even then its still he said/she said.  Pete is right - It's a cheap shot.

Personally I think its a nice gesture when mates go to the trouble of pressing up some rare records and gifting them to you, I wonder if your approach would differ should you be a mate who had received a nice gift like that. 

I have no vested interest as I'm not a beneficiary, seller or buyer. My observation suggests that there is a Anti IL lobby having a dig at an individual who is unable to defend himself (health and access reasons), I think some may call that bullying.  I wonder if that bullying is founded on the politics of envy, a talented DJ who broke more tunes than any other on the scene becomes vulnerable and out come the knives. The politics of envy is bloody ugly. 

Personally I feel we owe a debt of gratitude to many of those influential DJ's who made the scene what it is (ie from the Wheel, Torch, Casino Mecca etc)

 Stu

So they can do as they like then. 

[Steve G]

14 hours ago, mellorful said:

So what you appear to say is, a of mate of yours knows someone who's next door neighbour's uncle twice removed said.......... therefore it must must be both accurate and true! In your position as presiding judge on the tittle tattle you find IL guilty of deception.

Oh dear IL has already said he had the records pressed up and there is no evidence he has sold them for the purpose of making a profit; but he has admitted gifting several to friends etc.

Sorry Mark your argument sucks as regards finger pointing at IL;  you may have a point about IL's mates if they have tried to palm em off as originals but even then its still he said/she said.  Pete is right - It's a cheap shot.

Personally I think its a nice gesture when mates go to the trouble of pressing up some rare records and gifting them to you, I wonder if your approach would differ should you be a mate who had received a nice gift like that. 

I have no vested interest as I'm not a beneficiary, seller or buyer. My observation suggests that there is a Anti IL lobby having a dig at an individual who is unable to defend himself (health and access reasons), I think some may call that bullying.  I wonder if that bullying is founded on the politics of envy, a talented DJ who broke more tunes than any other on the scene becomes vulnerable and out come the knives. The politics of envy is bloody ugly. 

Personally I feel we owe a debt of gratitude to many of those influential DJ's who made the scene what it is (ie from the Wheel, Torch, Casino Mecca etc)

 Stu

Giving records away is still distribution in the eyes of the law, and these records were not authorised copies. The only difference was that it was small scale. I was offered some of the boots for free from the bloke who showed them to me (Hertsofsoul) when I told him they were not real records. Did I want them? No, and hertsofsoul and hammer soul can both confirm that. If this was about people being nasty, someone would have called trading standards and you know what they can be like. All this was ever about was finding out what records had been pressed, so collectors weren't duped (which has happened plural). So no need for pulling out the tired old boring as hell "victim" card. 

[Markw]

20 hours ago, mellorful said:

So what you appear to say is, a of mate of yours knows someone who's next door neighbour's uncle twice removed said.......... therefore it must must be both accurate and true! In your position as presiding judge on the tittle tattle you find IL guilty of deception.

Oh dear IL has already said he had the records pressed up and there is no evidence he has sold them for the purpose of making a profit; but he has admitted gifting several to friends etc.

Sorry Mark your argument sucks as regards finger pointing at IL;  you may have a point about IL's mates if they have tried to palm em off as originals but even then its still he said/she said.  Pete is right - It's a cheap shot.

Personally I think its a nice gesture when mates go to the trouble of pressing up some rare records and gifting them to you, I wonder if your approach would differ should you be a mate who had received a nice gift like that. 

I have no vested interest as I'm not a beneficiary, seller or buyer. My observation suggests that there is a Anti IL lobby having a dig at an individual who is unable to defend himself (health and access reasons), I think some may call that bullying.  I wonder if that bullying is founded on the politics of envy, a talented DJ who broke more tunes than any other on the scene becomes vulnerable and out come the knives. The politics of envy is bloody ugly. 

Personally I feel we owe a debt of gratitude to many of those influential DJ's who made the scene what it is (ie from the Wheel, Torch, Casino Mecca etc)

 Stu

Is that what I really said? Errrrr.........no. You need to read my post properly and in the proper context before you attribute statements to me which I have simply not made. I gave a defence of a decent man's professional integrity and intelligence against a personal sleight that clearly implied that he was a pratt for not spotting that the record he had bought was a fake.

I acknowledge that it is easy in these circumstances to conflate this specific and particular issue with the much wider debate and theme of this thread, i.e. the source, motivations and nature of these fake records. But nowhere in those specific comments you quote did I direct any accusations about the fakes against any individual(s) and if my "argument sucks" then I would be interested to know what this mythical argument is. Or perhaps you were just being deliberately and mischievously obtuse? There seems to have been a lot of that going on throughout this thread (and other related ones).

[Prophonics 2029]

A mate... friend use to sell replica t shirts, watches, perfume that stuff, always claimed they were off the back of a lorry...still got a suspended sentence.

I don't think I can ever go to a night club again, dance to a record and think wow he's got an original...it's spoilt it now.

[Nsg]

On 29/01/2016 at 15:14, RareMusicDirect said:

Hopefully someone who knows for sure will confirm, but I agree, likely on the vinyl, which points to a particular manufacturer, because don't see on other 45s...................

Just looked at a few vinyls and the following on a brief look seem to have these swirls in the labels;

Freestyle, Kentish, London

Timmion Records

Record Kicks

and imo the first '45 Box Set from Motown - which were pressed by www.gzvinyl.com

????

 

[Paul-s]

I have just keyed into this thread and really cannot believe that anyone is defending this deception. I really don't care if the guy or guys involved were former custodians of the mantle or contributed golden nuggets of soul, these actions negate and cancel all that. It really seem to be a a case of the Emperors new clothes to attempt to dress it any other way. If I had been a victim of this scam i would be very tempted to shove the bootleg in his chops make him eat it and get a refund with my very own hands from his soul-less grasping mitts. 

Edited February 10, 2016 by paul-s

[eastrob]

Has Patti & Emblems, Candi Staton been included in these boots?

[scotchmartin]

On 28/01/2016 at 20:54, Pete S said:

It was never released then?  How did he get the copies, did they just scrap the release?

It was pressed up by Stan Lewis at Bill's request to promote the band, "If you had a record, you got paid more and got more gigs" (Bill Bush). As far as I can gather although it's never been 100% clear and I don't think anyone could really recall, Stan did stock some in the shop he ran in Shreveport, and some sold, but it was primarily a promotional item (a business card, if you like) for Bill's combo, a very successful live group rather than recording artists. Velvet Touch is the a-side, a swamp-pop ballad that Bill was very proud of, it's a nice, well-crafted song to be fair but almost C&W. This would have been aimed at the white audience who attended tha cabarets, Riverboats and clubs in the area - or more specifically, the promoters / bookers of these venues.

[Soul-slider]

Well, I've one of these but never dreamed it was worth this much!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Northern-Soul-JOEY-DELORENZO-WAKE-UP-TO-THE-SUNSHINE-GIRL-MI-VAL-001-/111909896677?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=SBMxhIL8Nhw61f489vszK%252F0XNCs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

EDIT: Sorry, I just realised this might be in the wrong section as it´s not a current boot, sorry mods please move if you feel.

 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Soul-Slider

[Ady Croasdell]

On 2/21/2016 at 21:42, scotchmartin said:

It was pressed up by Stan Lewis at Bill's request to promote the band, "If you had a record, you got paid more and got more gigs" (Bill Bush). As far as I can gather although it's never been 100% clear and I don't think anyone could really recall, Stan did stock some in the shop he ran in Shreveport, and some sold, but it was primarily a promotional item (a business card, if you like) for Bill's combo, a very successful live group rather than recording artists. Velvet Touch is the a-side, a swamp-pop ballad that Bill was very proud of, it's a nice, well-crafted song to be fair but almost C&W. This would have been aimed at the white audience who attended tha cabarets, Riverboats and clubs in the area - or more specifically, the promoters / bookers of these venues.

A lot of records were like that, a musical business card, so I wouldn't say it was never released Martin. Just done for local sales and to help the group.

[Frankie Crocker]

Hey, Special Limited Edition bootlegs now that's classy. Just like Dinky toys, artists' prints, Princess Diana plates etc they are trophies for poor, simple fools chuffed to bits they had a bargain. Tell buyers they are in very limited supply and they will pay double. Better to go without.

[Mike]

update anyone?

 

[Gene-r]

17 hours ago, mike said:

update anyone?

 

Well, since you asked Mike, it's recently come to my attention that at least two of these are currently being auctioned on Ebay - as "continental releases".   

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sam-Williams-Love-Slipped-Through-My-Fingers-Lets-Talk-It-Over-Tower-/152117897373?hash=item236aeee89d:g:~QwAAOSwnFZXVT2q

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Magnetics-I-Have-a-Girl-Love-Devotion-Ra-Sel-/152117901204?hash=item236aeef794:g:sHUAAOSwuhhXVUAT