levine soul packs thread - recovered posts

On 24/01/2016 at 20:42, Soulfinger said:

Great thread this, shows how much the Northern Soul scene has moved on over the past 40 years.

Wow the Time Tunnel ... I'd forgotten all about that .... 

All available to watch online too ... 

The funny thing is that Geoff probably only got gigs because of his "willy wavers" and his unimaginative set.Billy Hawks has been around for donkeys years.It's from the mid 80s mod/acid jazz scenes.I wonder if this will prompt a rise in covering up records to stop the bootleggers.

In the absence of any clarification from Ian himself, unless I am mistaken it probably goes something like this.

Many now saying Soussan presses 30 + copies of the records. Pressing plant as yet unknown.

At least two people, one of which is Ian, probably pay for them and they are shared out.

Someone as yet unknown tries to sell them to a UK dealer, but he sees them as boots and declines, tipping off a second UK dealer.

Two Magnetics slip out at originals. One is sold in September, one is traded for rare vinyl in December.

Levine is pissed off that they've been sold / traded as originals.

8 copies of something (possibly Bill Bush) end up with a European dealer who sells them. Unknown who sold them to the dealer or who bought them yet.

Ian trusts people and gives them free copies in conjunction with soul packs on the basis they keep it secret.

Lars sees a Rita Graham in Austria, One on the list Sam Williams "found" at a boot fair in Bolton for 75p.

Wayne's mate asks me to take a look at Rita Graham, and 4 other dodgy ones identified.

Other guys go on FB and ask "what is this worth" regarding moody Greater Experience.

Someone complains about one of Ian's soul packs.

List of 20 booted records now emerges.

Anything else we need to know or is that it?

On 24/01/2016 at 21:01, Steve G said:

In the absence of any clarification from Ian himself, unless I am mistaken it probably goes something like this.

Many now saying Soussan presses 30 + copies of the records. Pressing plant as yet unknown.

At least two people, one of which is Ian, probably pay for them and they are shared out.

Someone as yet unknown tries to sell them to a UK dealer, but he sees them as boots and declines, tipping off a second UK dealer.

Two Magnetics slip out at originals. One is sold in September, one is traded for rare vinyl in December.

Levine is pissed off that they've been sold / traded as originals.

8 copies of something (possibly Bill Bush) end up with a European dealer who sells them. Unknown who sold them to the dealer or who bought them yet.

Ian trusts people and gives them free copies in conjunction with soul packs on the basis they keep it secret.

Lars sees a Rita Graham in Austria, One on the list Sam Williams "found" at a boot fair in Bolton for 75p.

Wayne's mate asks me to take a look at Rita Graham, and 4 other dodgy ones identified.

Other guys go on FB and ask "what is this worth" regarding moody Greater Experience.

Someone complains about one of Ian's soul packs.

List of 20 booted records now emerges.

Anything else we need to know or is that it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd love to know more about this and who the dealers are

"Someone as yet unknown tries to sell them to a UK dealer, but he sees them as boots and declines, tipping off a second UK dealer".  

Geoff has some interesting records, unique to him, not just biggies, at least with the more r&b end stuff he does. He's also sold lots of great originals and got plenty more, so god knows why he'd get involved with all this.

Sadly, I simply cannot believe that he'd be aware of the Capree boots yet keep an original, so ive had to conclude that he played the boot at our club then lied about it. Not that important in the scheme of things, but its not how we do things - this is supposed to be the nice part of life, where you escape from the prevailing greed and lies.

On 24/01/2016 at 20:53, wiggyflat said:

The funny thing is that Geoff probably only got gigs because of his "willy wavers" and his unimaginative set.Billy Hawks has been around for donkeys years.It's from the mid 80s mod/acid jazz scenes.I wonder if this will prompt a rise in covering up records to stop the bootleggers.

 

 

His set wasn't unimaginative really was it?  And isn't that how most dj's get their gigs, half of them wouldn't have got a look in in the old days because they've bought into it with ££££ records, they become top dj's

On 24/01/2016 at 21:01, Steve G said:

In the absence of any clarification from Ian himself, unless I am mistaken it probably goes something like this.

Many now saying Soussan presses 30 + copies of the records. Pressing plant as yet unknown.

At least two people, one of which is Ian, probably pay for them and they are shared out.

Someone as yet unknown tries to sell them to a UK dealer, but he sees them as boots and declines, tipping off a second UK dealer.

Two Magnetics slip out at originals. One is sold in September, one is traded for rare vinyl in December.

Levine is pissed off that they've been sold / traded as originals.

8 copies of something (possibly Bill Bush) end up with a European dealer who sells them. Unknown who sold them to the dealer or who bought them yet.

Ian trusts people and gives them free copies in conjunction with soul packs on the basis they keep it secret.

Lars sees a Rita Graham in Austria, One on the list Sam Williams "found" at a boot fair in Bolton for 75p.

Wayne's mate asks me to take a look at Rita Graham, and 4 other dodgy ones identified.

Other guys go on FB and ask "what is this worth" regarding moody Greater Experience.

Someone complains about one of Ian's soul packs.

List of 20 booted records now emerges.

Anything else we need to know or is that it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Given Ian's general lack of trust of most people why would he throw some into soul packs purchased by people that he doesn't know? I'm assuming from reading the thread that he doesn't know NikNak - but I'm happy for my assumption to be corrected.

Facts would be nice , all we have to date is theories regarding who and where etc.

Too many chinese whispers and dead ends , false accusations can lead down slippery slopes unfortunately , be better to try and establish the facts first .

On 24/01/2016 at 21:09, WoodButcher said:

Facts would be nice , all we have to date is theories regarding who and where etc.

Too many chinese whispers and dead ends , false accusations can lead down slippery slopes unfortunately , be better to try and establish the facts first .

 

 

 

When it gets to the point that someone falsely accuses me of making the f*cking things, then I'm not on anyone's side except my own.
Just one more thing though.  If this had been done by someone on the scene who everyone loves - just think of someone - would there have been this fuss or would the same people be saying how great it was that he's bought us these lovely repros.

On 24/01/2016 at 21:08, Peter99 said:

Given Ian's general lack of trust of most people why would he throw some into soul packs purchased by people that he doesn't know? I'm assuming from reading the thread that he doesn't know NikNak - but I'm happy for my assumption to be corrected.

 

 

You'll have to ask him Peter, I have no idea why he did this and he won't tell anyone the full story, but he did. Several people have said so on here.

Well on the grounds that nobody actually knows where they came from it's hard to say ... 

The way you feel about apparently being accused of involvement no doubt applies to others implicated too , as I said we need facts but I can't see us getting them anytime soon

On 24/01/2016 at 21:13, Pete S said:

When it gets to the point that someone falsely accuses me of making the f*cking things, then I'm not on anyone's side except my own.
Just one more thing though.  If this had been done by someone on the scene who everyone loves - just think of someone - would there have been this fuss or would the same people be saying how great it was that he's bought us these lovely repros.

 

 

Not sure who you mean Pete - but speaking for mesen yes.

On 24/01/2016 at 21:20, Peter99 said:

Not sure who you mean Pete - but speaking for mesen yes.

 

 

 

Well I didn't mean any one person in particular, I was just asking people to think of someone who wasn't hated by half the population

On 24/01/2016 at 21:21, Pete S said:

Well I didn't mean any one person in particular, I was just asking people to think of someone who wasn't hated by half the population

 

Fair enough. I don't know Ian personally and I've no reason to hate him.

He's done loads of interesting stuff on the soul scene - much of which I admire.

On 24/01/2016 at 21:21, Pete S said:

Well I didn't mean any one person in particular, I was just asking people to think of someone who wasn't hated by half the population

 

 

Personally I don't care that it's Levine, his involvement, along with his history & reputation (good, bad or indifferent) means nothing to me.

I am however gutted that Geoff seems to be involved, as I've know him a good few years, spent plenty of time in his company and traded 45s both ways with him.

So for me, yes I feel the same about this whole sorry affair, even moreso because some-one who I considered a 'nice decent guy' has got involved in this sort of shite.

On 24/01/2016 at 21:32, Mace said:

Personally I don't care that it's Levine, his involvement, along with his history & reputation (good bad or indifferent) means nothing to me.

I am however gutted that Geoff seems to be involved, as I've know him a good few years, spent plenty of time in his company and traded 45s both ways with him.

So for me, yes I feel the same about this whole sorry affair, even moreso because some-one who I considered a 'nice decent guy' has got involved in this sort of shite.

 

 

 

Mace if you know him and like him why on earth would this change your opinion of him, that's not what friendship is about is it?  I'd just think oh well, if thats what you want to do then it's up to you but I wouldn't fall out with anyone over it.

On 24/01/2016 at 21:33, Pete S said:

Mace if you know him and like him why on earth would this change your opinion of him, that's not what friendship is about is it?  I'd just think oh well, if thats what you want to do then it's up to you but I wouldn't fall out with anyone over it.

 

Well, I'm guessing he's lied to me cus a few things he has said on this thread contradict what he told me on the phone yesterday..... I base my friendships on honesty and loyalty and trust......simple traits that make long lasting freindships worth fighting for.

Seems to me a word is missing from many of these posts  "ETHICAL" .  We all go on holiday and are confronted by the "Looky Looky" man  hawking their "Lookalike" products .  We don't have any problems with this as we know their credentials and you get what you pay for. But we do expect better from so called Icons and pioneers of our beloved scene. Deception based on reputation pure and simple.         !!!!!

On 24/01/2016 at 21:38, Mace said:

Well, I'm guessing he's lied to me cus a few things he has said on this thread contradict what he told me on the phone yesterday..... I base my friendships on honesty and loyalty and trust......simple traits that make long lasting freindships worth fighting for.

 

Of course I understand that but think how he must feel seeing all his friends turn on him, even saying his playlists are poor, for what exactly?  And this scene is so hypocritcal, we all know there are drug dealers and goodness knows what on the scene but apparently that's ok compared to copying some record labels.

On 24/01/2016 at 17:45, markw said:

No accounting for taste. Malcolm Collins - I thought you were better than this............... 

steady Mark,they are just records mate...

Can somebody point me to the FB group where this has been discussed.

Ta.

Rare Soul Talk 

On 24/01/2016 at 21:45, Pete S said:

Of course I understand that but think how he must feel seeing all his friends turn on him, even saying his playlists are poor, for what exactly?  And this scene is so hypocritcal, we all know there are drug dealers and goodness knows what on the scene but apparently that's ok compared to copying some record labels.

 

As I've said I don't know Ian personally - but, I've read some of his posts on Facebook and elsewhere. He gives as good as he gets and he's no saint at times is he.

Fair play to you Pete - you stick with him, and have shown him great friendship and loyalty.

On 24/01/2016 at 21:46, Mal C said:

steady Mark,they are just records mate...

 

 

..................fraudulent records.

On 24/01/2016 at 21:45, Pete S said:

Of course I understand that but think how he must feel seeing all his friends turn on him, even saying his playlists are poor, for what exactly?  And this scene is so hypocritcal, we all know there are drug dealers and goodness knows what on the scene but apparently that's ok compared to copying some record labels.

 

Well I don't see any comments from his friends that I know who have turned on him. I do see comments from friends like myself who feel extremely let down by his involvement. He knows how passionate we are about records, it's what formed our friendship to start with, and he used to voice the same opinion and hatred for all the R&B boots that kept getting released. He doesn't need the money (whether the intention was to sell them or not) so I'm at a loss to why he has got tied up with the whole affair.

You makes your choices........

On 24/01/2016 at 21:45, Pete S said:

Of course I understand that but think how he must feel seeing all his friends turn on him, even saying his playlists are poor, for what exactly?  And this scene is so hypocritcal, we all know there are drug dealers and goodness knows what on the scene but apparently that's ok compared to copying some record labels.

 

what's wrong with drug dealers? providing a service, if you want drugs. If you don't, hard to see how they're bothering you.

I don't get your logic here Pete - people feel strongly about boots and re-issues, the reasons why have been spelled out, but you keep saying that it's not important, compared with the black death, genocide or slavery...

That's just a nonsense argument that you could use to mitigate anything - husband cheating? 'get over it, it's not as if anyone's died'...at a work tribunal? just say 'don't know what this fuss is about, not like anyone's got killed'...etc etc.

Is violence the only bad thing in the world? surely we've seen in recent years that that's far from the case.

It isn;t how the world works - caring about only the most severe issues only; if people care about something, and this care is obviously from a good place, about maintaining some standards and integrity in a shite corrupt world, why would you be offended by it? 

People aren't upset by this cos it's fraud, or cos it's deceitful, or because it's theft...they're upset because it's polluting the world of beautiful music with fraud, deceit and theft. People want to behave like this in the world of heavy metal records, rare stamps or wholesaling cabbages, I can't say I like it but i've really got nothing to say about it.

On 24/01/2016 at 21:57, Peter99 said:

As I've said I don't know Ian personally - but, I've read some of his posts on Facebook and elsewhere. He gives as good as he gets and he's no saint at times is he.

Fair play to you Pete - you stick with him, and have shown him great friendship and loyalty.

 

 

 

I was referring to Geoff to be honest mate, someone I don't actually know.  regarding Ian, I've lost count of the people who've told me to stop standing up for him as it will affect my 'reputation' but I'd stick up for any of my friends, until they let me down.

On 24/01/2016 at 22:07, Pete S said:

I was referring to Geoff to be honest mate, someone I don't actually know.  regarding Ian, I've lost count of the people who've told me to stop standing up for him as it will affect my 'reputation' but I'd stick up for any of my friends, until they let me down.

 

Yes you were! Doh. 

Still, my comment regarding you and Ian is fair. 

On 24/01/2016 at 22:02, markw said:

 

..................fraudulent records.

This thread is like one of those old American films where one fight between two guys spontaneously erupts into a mass brawl... I really do think most of you on here are off your heads, you really are...

On 24/01/2016 at 22:06, pow wow mik said:

what's wrong with drug dealers? providing a service, if you want drugs. If you don't, hard to see how they're bothering you.

I don't get your logic here Pete - people feel strongly about boots and re-issues, the reasons why have been spelled out, but you keep saying that it's not important, compared with the black death, genocide or slavery...

That's just a nonsense argument that you could apply to anyone who expresses any emotion about anything - husband cheating? 'get over it, it's not as if anyone's died'...at a work tribunal? just say 'don't know what this fuss is about, not like anyone's got killed'...etc etc.

Is violence the only bad thing in the world? surely we've seen in recent years that that's far from the case.

It's not how the world works, if people care about something, and this care is obviously from a good place, about maintaining some standards and integrity in a shite corrupt world, why would you be offended by it? 

People aren't upset by this cos it's fraud, or cos it's deceitful, or because it's theft...they're upset because it's polluting the world of beautiful music with fraud, deceit and theft. People want to behave like this in the world of heavy metal records, rare stamps or wholesaling cabbages, I can't say I like it but i've really got nothing to say about it.

 

 

 

 

Mik I know you think I'm a bit soft in the head, you've said so many times by asking me why I don't just get an mp3 track instead of a carver.

There is nothing wrong with honesty and integrity, and I hate deception and seeing people get ripped off.

I only referenced drug dealing because it's illegal, whether it should be or not is a moot point.  We have people  bragging about breaking into chemists, stealing cars, but it's a laugh right?

But that must have affected someone adversely so it's not really that funny.

On 24/01/2016 at 22:12, Pete S said:

Mik I know you think I'm a bit soft in the head, you've said so many times by asking me why I don't just get an mp3 track instead of a carver.

There is nothing wrong with honesty and integrity, and I hate deception and seeing people get ripped off.

I only referenced drug dealing because it's illegal, whether it should be or not is a moot point.  We have people  bragging about breaking into chemists, stealing cars, but it's a laugh right?

But that must have affected someone adversely so it's not really that funny.

 

 

 

ha ha I can't claim to understand the appeal of the lookalikes for the home user, but I respect yours and Ian's honesty about having this affliction! I do think that you're the exceptions that prove the rule though - your very personal, possibly nostalgic reasons for loving vinyl 45s, even if not real, are not shared, I really don't think, by the people paying £100+ for lookalikes on ebay. These are DJs playing them and pretending to have originals, let's have it right.

You're, strangely, a man of integrity who defends those that aren't!

Re. crime in general - I for one am not making this a moral issue - I completely disregard the law, approve of some crime, disapprove of others.
I dislike bootlegs cos they represent and support principles that I dislike - fake shit, laziness, shallowness, cheating, superfluous product, parasitic exploitation, cashing-in on underground culture, disrespecting legendary talents, over-exposing precious music etc etc.

get me drift?

On 24/01/2016 at 22:24, pow wow mik said:

ha ha I can't claim to understand the appeal of the lookalikes for the home user, but I respect yours and Ian's honesty about having this affliction! I do think that you're the exceptions that prove the rule though - your very personal, possibly nostalgic reasons for loving vinyl 45s, even if not real, are not shared, I really don't think, by the people paying £100+ for lookalikes on ebay. These are DJs playing them and pretending to have originals, let's have it right.

You're, strangely, a man of integrity who defends those that aren't!

Re. crime in general - I for one am not making this a moral issue - I completely disregard the law, approve of some crime, disapprove of others.
I dislike bootlegs cos they represent and support principles that I dislike - fake shit, laziness, shallowness, cheating, superfluous product, parasitic exploitation, cashing-in on underground culture, disrespecting legendary talents, over-exposing precious music etc etc.

get me drift?

 

 

I do.  I do love records though.  And yes people playing lookalikes are hanging on the coattails of the real collectors and dj's and are there to be pitied really.  But I just sit here in my house playing mine.

On 24/01/2016 at 22:11, Mal C said:

 

This thread is like one of those old American films where one fight between two guys spontaneously erupts into a mass brawl... I really do think most of you on here are off your heads, you really are...

Not compared to the lunatics out there who seem to think there is nothing wrong with counterfeiting records, passing them off as originals and ripping people off.

so how long have these 45s been around? as been asked but cant see any response if anyone may know, sounds like they have been around

for a while now, as in this time collectors may have purchased the original 45s over that time, one example having purchased a greater experience

in the last 18mths (certainly not saying that mine is one of these copies) but it gets you thinking is it or isn't it, since I purchased my copy have seen a few

appear on ebay and on auction etc.....and they all seem to be in mintish condition

seeing the pics which nik nak put up of records received which do look good, im thinking so whats in the runout...are they also the same as the original runout details?

can someone clarify details...just incase like!

On 24/01/2016 at 22:48, russoul1 said:

so how long have these 45s been around? as been asked but cant see any response if anyone may know, sounds like they have been around

for a while now, as in this time collectors may have purchased the original 45s over that time, one example having purchased a greater experience

in the last 18mths (certainly not saying that mine is one of these copies) but it gets you thinking is it or isn't it, since I purchased my copy have seen a few

appear on ebay and on auction etc.....and they all seem to be in mintish condition

seeing the pics which nik nak put up of records received which do look good, im thinking so whats in the runout...are they also the same as the original runout details?

can someone clarify details...just incase like!

 

 

 

 

 

The answer as to when is above you if you read up.

I heard wind of these 6 months ago (but as stock turning up, not boots), so at least that i'd say

On 24/01/2016 at 22:44, markw said:

Not compared to the lunatics out there who seem to think there is nothing wrong with counterfeiting records, passing them off as originals and ripping people off.

 

Once again, I agree with every word of this and whoever does it should rightly be castigated. 

On 24/01/2016 at 22:48, russoul1 said:

so how long have these 45s been around? as been asked but cant see any response if anyone may know, sounds like they have been around

for a while now, as in this time collectors may have purchased the original 45s over that time, one example having purchased a greater experience

in the last 18mths (certainly not saying that mine is one of these copies) but it gets you thinking is it or isn't it, since I purchased my copy have seen a few

appear on ebay and on auction etc.....and they all seem to be in mintish condition

seeing the pics which nik nak put up of records received which do look good, im thinking so whats in the runout...are they also the same as the original runout details?

can someone clarify details...just incase like!

 

 

 

 

 

I'll do it tomorrow for you bit late now.  6 months maximum by the way.  

On 24/01/2016 at 22:50, Steve G said:

The answer as to when is above you if you read up.

been reading this thread with interest steve but how far up, just seen miks post last 6 mths or so?

On 24/01/2016 at 22:54, russoul1 said:

been reading this thread with interest steve but how far up, just seen miks post last 6 mths or so?

 

 

summer 2015. 

For whats it's worth I have purchased multi packs before and have been pissed off with how they are packed, scratched and the filthy state they arrive in as to try and clean them is useless.

It's the buyers right to feel upset especially if the seller is being an arse.

nicnack, sorry mate looks like you'll have to wear it but thanks for notifying people.

if nik doesnt know how to close his threads the mods should do it for him

Anyone own , seen or know of the Satan's Breed 45 on Jenges as a 100% original ?

HAT THE F**K HAS THIS GOT TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL POST FROM NI NAK?.

Will some one please, please, please CLOSE this BLOODY THREAD THAT HAS DETERIORATED INTO THE SAME OLD BOOTS v ORIGINALS SENARIO WHICH HAS BEEN AIRED NUMEROUS TIMES ON THIS SITE. 

On 25/01/2016 at 09:25, SOULCENTRAL said:

WHAT THE F**K HAS THIS GOT TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL POST FROM NI NAK?.

Will some one please, please, please CLOSE this BLOODY THREAD THAT HAS DETERIORATED INTO THE SAME OLD BOOTS v ORIGINALS SENARIO WHICH HAS BEEN AIRED NUMEROUS TIMES ON THIS SITE. 

 

 

Have you read the last 10 pages ? The origial poster mentions the boot 45's many times himself [as do many others] so a valid question . Just say you was interested in this 45 on original [if it exists] and had read this thread - would you not ask the question ? Surely if you are a collector you would do the same now it's been established that there are boots ? [maybe boots only ?]

On 24/01/2016 at 22:58, Steve G said:

 

Sorry having trouble replying to last post

On 25/01/2016 at 09:36, TattooDave said:

Maybe because Satan's Breed could be one of those that has been booted, and therefore the poster might want to compare one that he might own that could be a boot against an original, or at least that would be my guess.

Closing this thread will only have another opened until all the details about the quantity of records that have been booted has been established, any distinguishing marks in the run out or tiny discrepancies on the labels have been circulated so  that it will ward off anyone from purchasing one of them as an original, as some have already been distressed in an effort to deceive.  There's always the choice of not reading the thread anymore. 

I'm not familiar with the Satans Breed record but it's 100% not one of these Northern lookalikes, if it has been 'done', and going by that scan showing the circles on the label, it has, it's totally separate to these.

it is on here

On 25/01/2016 at 09:58, jim g said:

it is on here

 

 

I know Jim - but apparently this found in the US and very shortly after 2 more 'turned up' . Trying to establish whether the 1st one is actually a 100% bona fide original .

On 1/24/2016 at 14:28, wiggyflat said:

Ian has failed to put where he got them from and who else he has given these to.

What's that got to do with the sale of a soul pack to someone?

On 1/24/2016 at 14:17, Pete S said:

Niknak bought a soul pack, the conditions laid out for all to see were no refunds as they are only £1 each, any broken and knackered ones were offered replacements and he got 15 singles thrown in on top that nobody else had.  

I got offered replacements after a mentioned trading standards. He asked for these boots back, & i told him i'm confiscating them. At this point, money or another offer cannot be excepted, otherwise i would be conspiracy to the whole thing.

Even though i caught him out, he was still trying to convince me of some of the boots authenticity. 

On 1/24/2016 at 14:23, Pete S said:

Kev Ian asked me to post this on his behalf, this is the last I will do as I'm fed up of being piggy in the middle.  As follows...

 

From Ian Levine

I kept all the Facebook conversations so can prove every word of the following

 

I offered to swap back any records that wouldn’t play for an equal number of other records.

 

I gave him EIGHTY free records on top of the original thousand in case any were cracked.

 

Fifty percent of his records were mint and I told him upfront some were rough and needed a serious cleaning.

 

I only gave him the fourteen records on condition of him swearing an oath he would never discuss the, never sell them, never show them to anyone - and my EXACT words to him were  “IF THEY ARE INDEED COUNTERFEITS THEN THEY ARE THE BEST I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE” - which is the gospel truth.

 

When he complained they were lookalikes, I asked him to return them but he refused. Remember they were a free gift which had cost me fifty quid each.

 

I then put up a podcast of 75 records onto Mixcloud contain 75 records that were specifically all in his soul pack. Thousands of people raved about the music quality.

 

When we couldn’t agree any compromise, I got very stressed. He then swore in writing this would never be made public, and as he had clearly stressed me so much, that would be an end of it there and then, and the matter was closed. HE SAID THIS IN WRITING.

 

I then offered to give him 300 Northern records all exclusively sixties (the kind I do at three quid each, never at a quid each), from the next February shipment. This was in December.

He laughed at this saying he didn’t want any more rough condition records. (Remember please that they had only cost him 90p each.)

 

His friend then started slagging me off on Facebook.

When I complained to Clarke, he BLOCKED me.

 

He has been very selective, missing out lots of facts, when telling his story.

after i made a comment, he did say 'if they are, they are the best ......" But, he must have known then they were not real , because it's been astablished  these records were given out with the recipient knowing full well they were boots, just as Pete s knew they were boots & not "if they are, they are the best i've ever seen boots.                                                                                                                                                                                                                           so what he is stating is this, he thought they were real with some small possibility they were boots.  he told me that he got them from a chap in the u.s. who had found the mother load, & was giving out a few to friends with conditions not to say a word or sell, as not to flood the market. 

when i pulled him up on them, he changed his story of how he came about them. I too have this on message.

On 1/24/2016 at 14:31, niknak said:

 

Even though i caught him out, he was still trying to convince me of some of the boots authenticity. 

This is the nub of the problem. I happen to quite like Ian, but he has now seemingly blocked me too. The BEST and only thing he or his mate(s) in this can really do is be truthful and stop all the BS. The more BS there is, the more stories and versions of events, the worse it gets. I too got a different version of what happened, which Ian asked me not to publish and I will honour that request. The only consistent part is the 30 copies, but then I wasn't told about 20 titles either. Save to say it was all his mate who did 'em and he's has been wrongly dragged in for giving away free records on the basis that it was a secret. Anyway I won't say anymore about what he told me because he asked me not to.

So lets have the full story and then we can all move on. Otherwise this will just run and run.  

On 1/24/2016 at 14:48, niknak said:

after i made a comment, he did say 'if they are, they are the best ......" But, he must have known then they were not real , because it's been astablished  these records were given out with the recipient knowing full well they were boots, just as Pete s knew they were boots & not "if they are, they are the best i've ever seen boots.                                                                                                                                                                                                                           so what he is stating is this, he thought they were real with some small possibility they were boots.  he told me that he got them from a chap in the u.s. who had found the mother load, & was giving out a few to friends with conditions not to say a word or sell, as not to flood the market. 

when i pulled him up on them, he changed his story of how he came about them. I too have this on message.

I would have thought someone finding a 'motherlode' of rare soul 45s would have the grapevine going crazy. Rumours of big finds whether in bulk titles or single copies don't stay a secret very long these days do they? Is there even anywhere in the states that hasn't been untouched or still kept a 'secret' ??? I wouldn't think so but this is a crazy world we decide to live in. 

so come on then Pete S, how do you explain Ian telling me these were real (with a cluase) & you say, everybody who got these knew what they were?

On 1/24/2016 at 15:00, niknak said:

so come on the Pete S, how do you explain Ian telling me these were real (with a cluase) & you say, everybody who got these knew what they were?

How am I supposed to explain what Ian says, I'm not controlling his speech from a secret lair in the industrial Black Country!

On 1/24/2016 at 15:05, Pete S said:

How am I supposed to explain what Ian says, I'm not controlling his speech from a secret lair in the industrial Black Country!

no, but i think it proves the point, he knew what he had

So who is the mysterious "Herts of Soul" that posted the first image on this thread of the Magnetics boot , just asking because there is quite clearly a Willie Tee on Gatur underneath it , a Greater Experience under that and a Jeanie Tracey below that ... !

On 1/24/2016 at 15:07, WoodButcher said:

So who is the mysterious "Herts of Soul" that posted the first image on this thread of the Magnetics boot , just asking because there is quite clearly a Willie Tee on Gatur underneath it , a Greater Experience under that and a Jeanie Tracey below that ... !

Good point.

On 1/24/2016 at 14:15, niknak said:

These all the records i received. 

 

 

 

 

Interesting, note the songwriter. I wonder if those involved in this even bothered to spare a thought for Clarence Reid and his terminal cancer and recent troubles (see separate thread). Couldn't even afford a burial. You can bet they didn't, because it is all about them and their egos and their own little world. At least Numero tried to do something to help by issuing the record legally. Oh yeah, I forgot "we'll never see a copy of this (bootleg) for sale" - silly me.  

Anyone reading this on a PC try clicking on that Magnetics photo and see if all the properties detail is still attached, could be fun. 

On 1/24/2016 at 15:12, Steve G said:

Interesting, note the songwriter. I wonder if those involved in this even bothered to spare a thought for Clarence Reid and his terminal cancer and recent troubles (see separate thread). Couldn't even afford a burial. You can bet they didn't, because it is all about them and their egos and their own little world. At least Numero tried to do something to help by issuing the record legally. Oh yeah, I forgot "we'll never see a copy of this (bootleg) for sale" - silly me.  

 

Never liked this emotional blackmail type of post when an old soul singer dies and they can't afford a headstone scenario, you'd think after 60 years in the business, making records and touring, they'd have saved enough money for a decent burial, but nope, it's someone in the UK's fault

On 1/24/2016 at 15:07, WoodButcher said:

So who is the mysterious "Herts of Soul" that posted the first image on this thread of the Magnetics boot , just asking because there is quite clearly a Willie Tee on Gatur underneath it , a Greater Experience under that and a Jeanie Tracey below that ... !

Going by his ebay names used I'd take a punt on it being a Paul Hurst , on FB and in the Rare Soul Sales and Valuations groups ... 

On 1/24/2016 at 15:07, WoodButcher said:

So who is the mysterious "Herts of Soul" that posted the first image on this thread of the Magnetics boot , just asking because there is quite clearly a Willie Tee on Gatur underneath it , a Greater Experience under that and a Jeanie Tracey below that ... !

No mystery here, he is Wayne's mate who originally asked me to look at the Rita Graham before Xmas. I did this in a pub. He also showed me Magnetics, W.Tee on Gatur, JWR on Melic, and Greater Experience. He didn't show me any others. He told me he was given them in or along with a soul pack and asked me if any of them were worth anything. I told him no, and as people on SS were asking about Rita Graham (the usual "we've discovered a new holy grail" salivating / creaming of pants), I posted up to say that Rita Graham was fake and watch out because the other 4 titles are about and looked well moody. I didn't name anyone at that point although I knew where they came from because Wayne's mate told me where he got them.

"In or along with a soul pack" ... those seven words speak volumes ... 

On 1/24/2016 at 15:23, WoodButcher said:

"In or along with a soul pack" ... those seven words speak volumes ... 

I think we can rest our case

On 1/24/2016 at 15:23, WoodButcher said:

"In or along with a soul pack" ... those seven words speak volumes ... 

I only say that because I can't remember his exact words, As uncharted bootlegs I was more fascinated by the records and who they came from to be honest rather than whether they were or weren't in a soul pack. A soul pack was mentioned but whether these were in it or a "compensation bundle" I don't know. The Rita Graham even looked quite good. 

On 1/24/2016 at 15:16, pomonkey said:

Anyone reading this on a PC try clicking on that Magnetics photo and see if all the properties detail is still attached, could be fun. 

iPhone6 plus , shot 23/10/15 at 17:26 , location somewhere in South London , Tulse Hill ish ... 

On 1/24/2016 at 15:37, WoodButcher said:

iPhone6 plus , shot 23/10/15 at 17:26 , location somewhere in South London , Tulse Hill ish ... 

Wow, all I could see was dimensions!

On 1/24/2016 at 15:16, pomonkey said:

Anyone reading this on a PC try clicking on that Magnetics photo and see if all the properties detail is still attached, could be fun. 

iPhone6 plus , shot 23/10/15 at 17:26 , location somewhere in South London , Tulse Hill ish ... 

Has anyone established how long these boots have been around ?

Which O'Kaysions tune is it by the way? "Little Miss Flirt"?

On 1/24/2016 at 15:44, pomonkey said:

You can't even make fun of this it's so beyond help. 

 

 

So you haven't got a pension plan then?

On 1/24/2016 at 14:23, Pete S said:

Kev Ian asked me to post this on his behalf, this is the last I will do as I'm fed up of being piggy in the middle.  As follows...

 

From Ian Levine

I kept all the Facebook conversations so can prove every word of the following

 

I offered to swap back any records that wouldn’t play for an equal number of other records.

 

I gave him EIGHTY free records on top of the original thousand in case any were cracked.

 

Fifty percent of his records were mint and I told him upfront some were rough and needed a serious cleaning.

 

I only gave him the fourteen records on condition of him swearing an oath he would never discuss the, never sell them, never show them to anyone - and my EXACT words to him were  “IF THEY ARE INDEED COUNTERFEITS THEN THEY ARE THE BEST I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE” - which is the gospel truth.

 

When he complained they were lookalikes, I asked him to return them but he refused. Remember they were a free gift which had cost me fifty quid each.

 

I then put up a podcast of 75 records onto Mixcloud contain 75 records that were specifically all in his soul pack. Thousands of people raved about the music quality.

 

When we couldn’t agree any compromise, I got very stressed. He then swore in writing this would never be made public, and as he had clearly stressed me so much, that would be an end of it there and then, and the matter was closed. HE SAID THIS IN WRITING.

 

I then offered to give him 300 Northern records all exclusively sixties (the kind I do at three quid each, never at a quid each), from the next February shipment. This was in December.

He laughed at this saying he didn’t want any more rough condition records. (Remember please that they had only cost him 90p each.)

 

His friend then started slagging me off on Facebook.

When I complained to Clarke, he BLOCKED me.

 

He has been very selective, missing out lots of facts, when telling his story.

just to add. I told him they were lookalikes, he said they were not, he had a friend come round to compare & they both thought they were real. 

he only asked me to return them after the mentioned trading standards, at which, his stance on them being real, started to slip somewhat. 

I  told him i would not tell anybody due to his illness. He then offered me 300 60's records. i did refuse, but  i'm sure how he could tell i was laughing, as i was typing my reply? more like furious. 

So they cost him £50 each. that's a different story to the one he told me. The first story he told me was. i got them from a friend/dealer as a gift.(as i have  already said) his story changed to "I saw them & thought they looks great, so i got some more. remember mind, he's telling me this as he is defending their authenticity. 

after all that has been said on here. the findings of this thread etc. It's up to people to conclude for them selfs, what has happened, & what is happening

On 1/24/2016 at 16:05, niknak said:

just to add. I told him they were lookalikes, he said they were not, he had a friend come round to compare & they both thought they were real. 

he only asked me to return them after the mentioned trading standards, at which, his stance on them being real, started to slip somewhat. 

I  told him i would not tell anybody due to his illness. He then offered me 300 60's records. i did refuse, but  i'm sure how he could tell i was laughing, as i was typing my reply? more like furious. 

So they cost him £50 each. that's a different story to the one he told me. The first story he told me was. i got them from a friend/dealer as a gift.(as i have  already said) his story changed to "I saw them & thought they looks great, so i got some more. remember mind, he's telling me this as he is defending their authenticity. 

 

after all that has been said on here. the findings of this thread etc. It's up to people to conclude for them selfs, what has happened, & what is happening

 

And then what?  At the end of the day, what has been the point of this 8 page discussion?  

On 1/24/2016 at 16:13, Pete S said:

And then what?  At the end of the day, what has been the point of this 8 page discussion?  

I don't mean to be rude, but if i have to tell you that, then there is no point in explaining it to you

On 1/24/2016 at 16:16, niknak said:

I don't mean to be rude, but if i have to tell you that, then there is no point in explaining it to you

That's alright, I'm used to people being rude :-)

I know it was about you being unhappy with your soul pack but it hasn't half meandered away from that

On 1/24/2016 at 16:19, Pete S said:

That's alright, I'm used to people being rude :-)

I know it was about you being unhappy with your soul pack but it hasn't half meandered away from that

Well at least we're a lot more wiser about these 20 titles too Pete, and their UK source. And the fact that they have been sold on more than one occasion as "originals".  call it greed, call it betrayal of trust, whatever, we've found out quite a bit in these 8 pages. 

On 1/24/2016 at 16:29, Steve G said:

Well at least we're a lot more wiser about these 20 titles too Pete, and their UK source. And the fact that they have been sold on more than one occasion as "originals".  call it greed, call it betrayal of trust, whatever, we've found out quite a bit in these 8 pages. 

So who wants to buy some?

I'll get me coat 

So is anyone really suggesting Ian Levine doesn't know what he is doing with these counterfeits? Come off it.

If nothing else, he, with all his years experience, and after 40 years of the top dealers searching, would know a pukka Billy Woods (a dozen or so, at most, copies found) from a knock-off ... and be more than highly suspicious of a sudden 30-count 'find'.

If he didn't want health-threatening stress from all this current malarky he shouldn't have brought it on himself.

I am prepared to believe he does have bitterness and a vendetta against northern soul collectors, and many of those involved in the scene with a high profile. And why can he not defend himself on here? ... Oh yes, he was banned!

This is one of his rants, from Facebook:

site note:

content removed due to personal nature of abuse

Site edit accepted, but this old thread is still interesting/illuminating:

Mike ... hope this one's OK, it is still here for all to see?!

Cheers, Peter

This from Marc forrest: I heard about one dealer now who sold on 8 (eight!) copies of one title at 600GBP each! Before u ask, I wont tell which title and which seller, may he find the dignity to come up and admit himself.

…...is anyone apart from Pete going to be surprised by this? 

On 1/24/2016 at 16:52, Steve G said:

This from Marc forrest: I heard about one dealer now who sold on 8 (eight!) copies of one title at 600GBP each! Before u ask, I wont tell which title and which seller, may he find the dignity to come up and admit himself.

…...is anyone apart from Pete going to be surprised by this? 

It's a lie - how could he have got any copies?  Especially 8 of one title.  How did he find 8 buyers and where did he sell them?

For the benefit of people who never knew about Soussan here is an interview He had close links to the Soul Town back catalogue and loved playing synthesiser which is why myself and Pete S think that When We Are Alone Tonight is dubious 

Was these 8 copies the Bill Bush ? Seems to have been a few of them around lately, but with it also being booted on a common lookalike I presumed it was just folk getting shut of originals because of that boot?

On 1/24/2016 at 16:52, Steve G said:

This from Marc forrest: I heard about one dealer now who sold on 8 (eight!) copies of one title at 600GBP each! Before u ask, I wont tell which title and which seller, may he find the dignity to come up and admit himself.

…...is anyone apart from Pete going to be surprised by this? 

I'm surprised you're posting an unsubstantiated statement, Steve.

If Marc has any kind of proof this is true then let's hear it.

Whole thing is a can of worms and best to stick to comment backed up by facts.

I don't think we need to find the mysterious Simon Soussan. He made have made the records. The people responsible for selling them have been found out. The only part missing is what plant did em. 

On 1/24/2016 at 17:13, modernsoulsucks said:

I'm surprised you're posting an unsubstantiated statement, Steve.

If Marc has any kind of proof this is true then let's hear it.

Whole thing is a can of worms and best to stick to comment backed up by facts.

Marc has posted this Rod and he is on here so I guess he can decide if he wants to confirm whether it is true or not.  

I really dont care about this discussion in terms of who, how, why, .... buy If anybody has a full set Id be interested in one or two of the 45's...  you need not sign your real name if you find yourselves embroiled in a bit of cloak and dagger..

On 1/24/2016 at 17:24, Steve Plumb said:

Spent all Sunday reading this fooking thread LOL

One thing that maybe hasn't been mentioned or at least only touched on...............the thought that only 30 off of each title has been made, seems to be given more credence as the thread goes on

Bollocks (imho)

I bet there is between 200-300 of each of these titles sat in the home of the person who made them as we speak?

Only my opinion of course

Steve

I think it is bollocks myself Steve despite the protestation of some.  The cost from what i can see at a few plants is for a minimum run of 200/250. Pete said that a plant pressed 30 at a higher price but why would you have less done for more when you could bin 170 and get the 30 cheaper, doesn't make sense to me and if it is Soussan who is behind them as is being claimed then I doubt he would do just a limited amount for private use.

On 1/24/2016 at 15:44, WoodButcher said:

iPhone6 plus , shot 23/10/15 at 17:26 , location somewhere in South London , Tulse Hill ish ... 

hmm ,Boot JPEG ...someone knew exactly what they were 

The one thing that strikes me about this thread is that these bootlegs seem to have some sort of aura about them because of their supposedly  lack of numbers and the secret of keeping the records to themselves and in the coming months I can see these going for good prices as boots in their own rights.  

On 1/24/2016 at 17:31, Eddie Hubbard said:

hmm ,Boot JPEG ...someone knew exactly what they were 

On 1/24/2016 at 17:31, Eddie Hubbard said:

hmm ,Boot JPEG ...someone knew exactly what they were 

No , that's the title I gave it when I downloaded it in order to tweak the colour for a more realistic comparison in the Magnetics thread ... 

On 1/24/2016 at 17:32, shinehead said:

The one thing that strikes me about this thread is that these bootlegs seem to have some sort of aura about them because of their supposedly  lack of numbers and the secret of keeping the records to themselves and in the coming months I can see these going for good prices as boots in their own rights.  

 

There is a good price now, two Magnetics have been sold or traded.  One refunded and the other came to light today, done as a trade.  Others may have been traded without us knowing or those in the loop knowing.  The Rita Graham has been around sometime now with one originally turning up in the lot Lars mate got so who knows what has been traded.

On 1/24/2016 at 17:31, chalky said:

I think it is bollocks myself Steve despite the protestation of some.  The cost from what i can see at a few plants is for a minimum run of 200/250. Pete said that a plant pressed 30 at a higher price but why would you have less done for more when you could bin 170 and get the 30 cheaper, doesn't make sense to me and if it is Soussan who is behind them as is being claimed then I doubt he would do just a limited amount for private use.

To be honest I don't think Soussan is behind this. Two or more UK people are responsible, and have put a load of oil in their tank to create a load of thick smoke to try and cover their tracks. 

On 1/24/2016 at 17:19, Mal C said:

I really dont care about this discussion in terms of who, how, why, .... buy If anybody has a full set Id be interested in one or two of the 45's...  you need not sign your real name if you find yourselves embroiled in a bit of cloak and dagger..

No accounting for taste. Malcolm Collins - I thought you were better than this............... 

On 1/24/2016 at 17:45, markw said:

No accounting for taste. Malcolm Collins - I thought you were better than this............... 

I don't understand that comment.  What's wrong with wanting to have a really nice lookalike record?  I've got two boxes of "my own" records, there are about 475 records in them, I'd say 85% are bootlegs, lookalikes, carvers etc.  So what?  This makes me a bad person does it, because they aren't half a million pounds worth of originals?

I bought a pack of 500 and was happy with them. A few needed a clean or were only vg but ian put several extra in my pack.

I got my moneys worth but with all packs i have bought from different people there was stuff that I didnt want or able to do anything with but i felt at a pound a record i only needed a percentage that i liked ti cover my cost.

Yes there were lots of stuff that would not appeal to a northern fan but its a general soul pack not just northern  

On 1/26/2016 at 15:47, phild said:

What's a polished record?

 

I think he means "skimmed" to remove scratches.

A scratched record is polished with a compound used for metal polishing. Superficially looks better but the abrasive removes a lot of the 'good' grooves as well as the bad. 

On 1/26/2016 at 15:31, Kegsy said:

The problem here, is that very few people seem to know anything about any of this, Pete obviously does and perhaps a few more, so how can people defend anyone's position if they don't know the facts. Having said that there also seems to be a lot of ranters ranting who don't know the facts of the matter either. 

When people have asked me politely I've given them information about run off details etc.  

On 1/26/2016 at 15:55, Pete S said:

When people have asked me politely I've given them information about run off details etc.  

I'm not saying you didn't and fair play to you, but how can others stick up for Ian if they have no idea whats gone on, that's all I'm saying.

Lets put my oar in to this debate about Ian's soul packs. I paid Ian £1000 for 1000 records a month later on a cheap rail ticket I went to Ian's house at his request to pick the 1000 up. I posted pictures on f/b showing what 1000 looked like in a suitcase strapped to a trolly. He sat me at a table and for over 3 hours tried to show me each record individually if I didn't want it he replaced it until I ran out of time, I got over 150 Motown inc W/D's, 100 Atlantic, 75 Stax, 75 Chess /Checker / Cadet, 40 Ric Tic / Golden World, The rest were a complete mixture of 60's inc Blues, Gospel, Deep, Northern, RnB, 70's inc Stang, All Platinum, Dakar, Brunswick, Hi,  Artists Otis Clay, Tyrone Davis, Bobby Womack, Al Green, Sylvia, Moments, Gladys Knight, Joe Simon, Disco like Ralph McDonald, Dexter Wansell, Natalie Cole, Wardell Piper, John Davis Orch,  and 80,s soul inc Alexander O'Neil, Gladys Knight again, Aretha Franklin, etc. There were unknown 60's 70's and Crossover some rare items like XYZ & Little Charles & Sidewinders. I am satisfied. £1 each remember

   What I would suggest if your parting with a £1000 make arrangements to go see him, Ian's an amiable chap.  

On 1/26/2016 at 15:58, Kegsy said:

I'm not saying you didn't and fair play to you, but how can others stick up for Ian if they have no idea whats gone on, that's all I'm saying.

I also posted the original list. That did me a lot of good.  People probably stick up for Ian because they can't quite believe some of the posters on here who come across as crazed lunatics.