Nickinstoke Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 I used to have both the St Clair and HBR copies of The Fife Piper and have a vague memory of them being subtly different. Can anyone confirm or deny this.?
Kevinkent Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 35 minutes ago, nickinstoke said: I used to have both the St Clair and HBR copies of The Fife Piper and have a vague memory of them being subtly different. Can anyone confirm or deny this.? Yes Nick they are different - enough for me to love one version and the memories of my youth that it evokes, whereas I wouldn't entertain the other version. It has to be HBR for me. I'm sure others feel that the St Clair version is the one, and for exactly the same reasons. I guess it's down to where you were geographically and the venues you attended. - Kev
Kegsy Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 1 hour ago, nickinstoke said: I used to have both the St Clair and HBR copies of The Fife Piper and have a vague memory of them being subtly different. Can anyone confirm or deny this.? Which version was the one on UK Pye International. ?
Woodbutcher Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) HBR to these ears . Edited January 19, 2016 by WoodButcher
Nickinstoke Posted January 19, 2016 Author Posted January 19, 2016 Thanks Kegsy, good to know I haven't completely lost it yet. I always thought it was the HBR that came out on Pye International, but I've just done a bit of digging and it seems it might be more complicated than that... https://www.45cat.com/record/hbr494
Kris Holmes Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 The drummer on this is the father of Brian Wolfe who is one of the Dap-Kings drummers. 1
Kris Holmes Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 also, i never realised the different versions!!
Kris Holmes Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, nickinstoke said: Thanks Kegsy, good to know I haven't completely lost it yet. I always thought it was the HBR that came out on Pye International, but I've just done a bit of digging and it seems it might be more complicated than that... https://www.45cat.com/record/hbr494 sounds like the HBR to my ears too on the UK Pye, which contradicts what the reply on that 45cat link says. although label shots in youtube vids don't always match the versions of the tracks to be honest. Edited January 20, 2016 by Kris Holmes
Kegsy Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, Kris Holmes said: sounds like the HBR to my ears too on the UK Pye, which contradicts what the reply on that 45cat link says. although label shots in youtube vids don't always match the versions of the tracks to be honest. The 45cat link actually says there are 2 versions on HBR one of which is the St. Clair and UK Pye version, and the other seems to only be on HBR. Whats the chances of it being repressed for the northern scene later and them using a different master tape/mix. Edited January 20, 2016 by Kegsy
Daved Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 Terrible record. One of the worst ever to be played. 1
Nickinstoke Posted January 20, 2016 Author Posted January 20, 2016 18 hours ago, KevinKent said: Yes Nick they are different - enough for me to love one version and the memories of my youth that it evokes, whereas I wouldn't entertain the other version. It has to be HBR for me. I'm sure others feel that the St Clair version is the one, and for exactly the same reasons. I guess it's down to where you were geographically and the venues you attended. - Kev Meant to say thanks for your reply, Kev, I grew up with the Pye International and I knew I'd heard something that didn't sound quite the same. Digging a bit more, their bass player, Gary van Scyoc (I wonder how that's pronounced) played on Howard Tate's Atlantic LP, and turned up as a member of Elephant's Memory, John Lennon associates.
Gene-r Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, Kegsy said: The 45cat link actually says there are 2 versions on HBR one of which is the St. Clair and UK Pye version, and the other seems to only be on HBR. Whats the chances of it being repressed for the northern scene later and them using a different master tape/mix. Thank you Kegsy - obviously the only one to understand my (what I think is obvious) comment on 45cat! Let me reiterate - there are two different issues on HBR. The one with larger lettering (and also the demo with larger lettering), pressed on styrene, is the same cut that was released on St Clair and UK Pye International. The HBR issue with thinner, smaller lettering for the title credits, is a completely different, and cleaner recording, and more (IMO) professionally put together than the one on St Clair. This issue was ONLY pressed on solid vinyl, and no demo appears to exist for this issue. The YouTube clip on the 45cat page shows the smaller lettering vinyl issue and, quite rightly, plays the correct recording - the more clean-cut one. In contrast, here is the recording used on the larger lettering HBR release and demo, and also released on St Clair and UK Pye International. Note the last verse where the flute sounds more like a falling H-Bomb, which you (thankfully) don't get on the other HBR release. To my ears, this cut is also rather messy and slapdash. Which also makes me believe that the smaller lettering solid vinyl issue is the 2nd issue, especially given that no one's ever seen a demo for it. Maybe the 2nd issue was put out for the Northern scene? Who knows? Edited January 20, 2016 by Gene-R 2
Md Records Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 The St Clair release was the first release, and had reasonable success in it's Pittsburgh area, enough to make HBR want to put it out nationally, so at some stage shortly after rerecorded it to their specifications Des
Kris Holmes Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 I was just going off the three youtubes posted above where the UK Pye & US St Clair are markedly different recordings, so no, the 45cat comment is not obvious. But whatever guys, if they're the same to your ears then I don't know what to say.
Russoul1 Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 had the st clair issue, was this a canadian release?
Guest david Roberts Posted February 4, 2018 Posted February 4, 2018 A lot of information as come out since the internet especially over the last few years. This record in the late sixties was a bit of a legend and highly sort. What was then considered to be what we called the 'original ' was the Pye international copy 7n25389. But was almost impossible to get hold of then, places like the Twisted Wheel, The Disc, and Top of the Town in Manchester and Salford was where l first heard this fabulous record it was very different and dramatic when threw in with the rest of the soul and motown sounds. All this info about the st clair and HBR records is interesting and explain finally many mysteries. I managed to get a copy of the only 'proper record' Pye international around 1968 it was worth a lot of money then maybe because it was the only version that was deleted to my knowledge. The HBR version that l picked up around a year later was a joke and a insult to the original ( l am still calling the pye international that because there was no knowledge of the st clair record ) Since browsing youtube l have discovered that some HBR pressings are indeed the same recording as the pye version also the st clair records l have listened to are the same great original recording ? But back in the day there was only one pye international, that awful HBR version appeared a while after and l have heard a few of them all the same recording terrible. But now it seems there are two recordings on this label as with the st clair ...the duff dud one and the original pye international 7n25389 recording, complicated, by the way still have my original record, l threw the HBR thing in the bin not long after l played it..hahaha. Dave Roberts Manchester.
Roburt Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 A true mod / early UK soul club classic. Always packed the floor at every club it was played in from 66 to at least the end of the 60's. It was one of the few classy jazzy sounds that were regular plays back then ... BUT THEN ... it was one of the very best cuts jazzy cuts around then (certainly a lot better than SCRATCHY which also got a lot of plays). TWO IN THE MORNING had also escaped in the UK in the 60's (on a cheap LP) but that never got played to my knowledge back then ... so for instros back then it was just the likes of Willie Mitchell (but thankfully not the awful cut that Casino-ites picked up on), Ramsey Lewis, Booker T, Markeys, Rex Garvin & MC's, Little Mac and the like that were featured on a regular basis.
Mr Fred Posted February 10, 2018 Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) In Discogs it lists as 7 different releases it's there for all to see. To my ears the difference is in the flute section. The pye and HBR are identical and the St Claire flute section is different. As to which version is best depends on where you live and which version you heard first and which version was predominantly played in that area. I can tell you in the north of England this sound has always been extremely popular, was played at the famous Twisted Wheel whitworth Street and still fills the dance floor in 2018, the numbers speak for themselves. That's not to say it is the same in other parts of the country. Regards Fred. Edited February 10, 2018 by Mr Fred
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