I used to have both the St Clair and HBR copies of The Fife Piper and have a vague memory of them being subtly different. Can anyone confirm or deny this.?

  On 19/01/2016 at 18:59, nickinstoke said:

I used to have both the St Clair and HBR copies of The Fife Piper and have a vague memory of them being subtly different. Can anyone confirm or deny this.?

Yes Nick they are different - enough for me to love one version and the memories of my youth that it evokes, whereas I wouldn't entertain the other version.  It has to be HBR for me.

I'm sure others feel that the St Clair version is the one, and for exactly the same reasons. I guess it's down to where you were geographically and the venues you attended.

- Kev

  On 19/01/2016 at 18:59, nickinstoke said:

I used to have both the St Clair and HBR copies of The Fife Piper and have a vague memory of them being subtly different. Can anyone confirm or deny this.?

Which version was the one on UK Pye International. ?

HBR to these ears .

Edited January 19, 20169 yr by WoodButcher

Thanks Kegsy, good to know I haven't completely lost it yet. I always thought it was the HBR that came out on Pye International, but I've just done a bit of digging and it seems it might be more complicated than that...

 

https://www.45cat.com/record/hbr494

 

 

 

 

The drummer on this is the father of Brian Wolfe who is one of the Dap-Kings drummers.

also, i never realised the different versions!!

  On 19/01/2016 at 21:17, nickinstoke said:

Thanks Kegsy, good to know I haven't completely lost it yet. I always thought it was the HBR that came out on Pye International, but I've just done a bit of digging and it seems it might be more complicated than that...

 

https://www.45cat.com/record/hbr494

sounds like the HBR to my ears too on the UK Pye, which contradicts what the reply on that 45cat link says.  although label shots in youtube vids don't always match the versions of the tracks to be honest.

Edited January 20, 20169 yr by Kris Holmes

 HBR version on NZ Pye 7" . 

  On 20/01/2016 at 04:05, Kris Holmes said:

sounds like the HBR to my ears too on the UK Pye, which contradicts what the reply on that 45cat link says.  although label shots in youtube vids don't always match the versions of the tracks to be honest.

The 45cat link actually says there are 2 versions on HBR one of which is the St. Clair and UK Pye version, and the other seems to only be on HBR.  Whats the chances of it being repressed for the northern scene later and them using a different master tape/mix.

Edited January 20, 20169 yr by Kegsy

Terrible record. One of the worst ever to be played.

  On 19/01/2016 at 19:37, KevinKent said:

Yes Nick they are different - enough for me to love one version and the memories of my youth that it evokes, whereas I wouldn't entertain the other version.  It has to be HBR for me.

I'm sure others feel that the St Clair version is the one, and for exactly the same reasons. I guess it's down to where you were geographically and the venues you attended.

- Kev

Meant to say thanks for your reply, Kev, I grew up with the Pye International and I knew I'd heard something that didn't sound quite the same. Digging a bit more, their bass player, Gary van Scyoc (I wonder how that's pronounced) played on Howard Tate's Atlantic LP, and turned up as a member of Elephant's Memory, John Lennon associates.

  On 20/01/2016 at 08:34, Kegsy said:

The 45cat link actually says there are 2 versions on HBR one of which is the St. Clair and UK Pye version, and the other seems to only be on HBR.  Whats the chances of it being repressed for the northern scene later and them using a different master tape/mix.

Thank you Kegsy - obviously the only one to understand my (what I think is obvious) comment on 45cat!

Let me reiterate - there are two different issues on HBR.  The one with larger lettering (and also the demo with larger lettering), pressed on styrene, is the same cut that was released on St Clair and UK Pye International.  The HBR issue with thinner, smaller lettering for the title credits, is a completely different, and cleaner recording, and more (IMO) professionally put together than the one on St Clair.  This issue was ONLY pressed on solid vinyl, and no demo appears to exist for this issue.

The YouTube clip on the 45cat page shows the smaller lettering vinyl issue and, quite rightly, plays the correct recording - the more clean-cut one.

In contrast, here is the recording used on the larger lettering HBR release and demo, and also released on St Clair and UK Pye International.  Note the last verse where the flute sounds more like a falling H-Bomb, which you (thankfully) don't get on the other HBR release.  To my ears, this cut is also rather messy and slapdash.  Which also makes me believe that the smaller lettering solid vinyl issue is the 2nd issue, especially given that no one's ever seen a demo for it.  Maybe the 2nd issue was put out for the Northern scene?  Who knows?

 

Edited January 20, 20169 yr by Gene-R

The St Clair release was the first release, and had reasonable success in it's Pittsburgh area, enough to make HBR want to put it out nationally, so at some stage shortly after rerecorded it to their specifications

Des

I was just going off the three youtubes posted above where the UK Pye & US St Clair are markedly different recordings, so no, the 45cat comment is not obvious.  But whatever guys, if they're the same to your ears then I don't know what to say.

had the st clair issue, was this a canadian release?

no, smaller local label.

A lot of information  as come out since the internet especially  over the last few  years. This record in the late sixties was a bit of a legend and highly  sort. What was then considered to be what we called the 'original ' was the Pye international copy 7n25389. But was almost  impossible  to  get hold of then,  places like the Twisted Wheel,  The Disc, and Top of the Town in Manchester and Salford was where  l first heard this fabulous record it was very different and dramatic  when threw in with the rest of the soul and motown sounds. All this info about the st clair and HBR records is interesting and explain finally  many mysteries. I managed  to  get  a copy of the only 'proper record'  Pye international  around 1968 it was worth  a  lot of money then maybe because it was the only version  that was deleted to my knowledge. The  HBR version that l picked up around a year later  was a joke and a insult to the original  ( l am still calling  the pye international that because  there was no knowledge  of the st clair record ) Since browsing youtube l have discovered  that some HBR pressings are indeed the same recording as the pye version also the st clair records l have listened  to are the same great original  recording  ? But back in the day there was only one pye international, that awful HBR version appeared a while after and l have heard a few of them all  the same recording terrible. But now it seems there are two recordings on this label  as with the st clair ...the duff dud one and the original pye international  7n25389  recording, complicated,  by the way still have my original record, l threw the HBR thing in the bin not long after l played it..hahaha. 

Dave Roberts  

Manchester. 

A true mod / early UK soul club classic. Always packed the floor at every club it was played in from 66 to at least the end of the 60's. It was one of the few classy jazzy sounds that were regular plays back then ... BUT THEN ... it was one of the very best cuts jazzy cuts around then (certainly a lot better than SCRATCHY which also got a lot of plays). 

TWO IN THE MORNING had also escaped in the UK in the 60's (on a cheap LP) but that never got played to my knowledge back then ... so for instros back then it was just the likes of Willie Mitchell (but thankfully not the awful cut that Casino-ites picked up on), Ramsey Lewis, Booker T, Markeys, Rex Garvin & MC's, Little Mac and the like that were featured on a regular basis. 

In Discogs it lists as 7 different releases it's there for all to see. To my ears the difference is in the flute section. The pye and HBR are identical and the St Claire flute section is different. As to which version is best depends on where you live and which version you heard first and which version was predominantly played in that area. I can tell you in the north of England this sound has always been extremely popular, was played at the famous Twisted Wheel whitworth Street and still fills the dance floor in 2018, the numbers speak for themselves. That's not to say it is the same in other parts of the country.

Regards Fred. 

Edited February 10, 20187 yr by Mr Fred