Paying for your guest DJs?

[Hermanthegerman]

I'm recognizing a lot of mid-sized events recently, which have a list of more than 2 or 3 guest DJs, some even from abroad.

Promoting a small Soul do myself I always wonder how promoters can afford to pay at least their guests expenses.

For my part I had also friends over djing for me but at least managed to pay their flight and accomodation plus a fair bit on top.

Most of us do not mind a bit of £££ to buy our next tune, don't we? 

 

Edited January 4, 2016 by hermanthegerman

[Julianb]

I was told by a big name DJ ( a proper one who graces many premier events) that he did a 'Rare Soul' night as guest DJ 50 miles from his home. It was poorly attended so the promoter didn't pay him.

Needless to say he won't be doing that venue again without payment upfront! Well, to be honest he told the promoter to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

[Sammy Seaman]

name names Julian ! dj and venue

sammy

Edited January 6, 2016 by sammy seaman

[JimK]

We pay the same to all guests at the Pie Hall, mind you they are from the North, in the main.  I will always make sure they are paid - even if it was a poor night then it would come out of my pocket.  There has been the occasional exception when a well known name asked for petrol money on top as he was travelling a fair way - no problem!

Edited January 6, 2016 by JimK

[Quinvy]

It's a bloody nightmare being a promoter, you want to try it sometime. Worrying if any bugger will turn up, and if you will lose money. That's why most will accept any old crap just so long as it gets folk through the door.

Lots of people only too willing to do it for nowt these days.

[Dobber]

actually julian,ive always wondered how the dj payment system works?

is anybody able to do a bit of an increment list to show what one would expect..

in fact is there a premiership league and a pub team league? haha

for example:

butch at the top of the premiership (how much would he get)

and

mr who cares in the dj pub league (how much would he get)

cmon lets knock up a dj league for djs to work up and...fall down?

 

[Zoomsoulblue]

Please note that these are estimates as different DJs who DJ in a local area will be cheaper than at the other end of the country, also over years of knowing each other sometimes you have a good night and over pay as you get in extra people, some DJs give 100% wages in the charity box at the end of the night, yes I've had that done a few time, others say just give me £20 to cover my petrol.  I know of one well known DJ who DJed recently who traveled over 360 miles round trip for a 1 hour spot for £50 which he agreed before he went - why because he still has the buzz of djing and soul music.

That's 6 hours traveling plus fuel for £50 - it's a hobby ?

The actual fees that promotors pay I guess is that grey area - so without names:

Top dogs

150 - 250

mid range

50 - 120

Troop DJs

30 - 40

Pub hobby spinners

10 - 20

Hobby DJS

A few pints - don't care

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dobber]

i wonder what it is that gets you in the premier ship league! it cant be the records cos there are plenty of (lower end djs) whom have far superior records to the so called top dogs!

could it be time served...casino..totw..etc or just simply keeping your name in the mix and maybe being a bit of a showman?

[Chalky]

Far too may promoters just promoting on a wing and a prayer, hoping they get enough in to cover costs.  The guest Dj should be paid an agreed amount regardless whether the promoter makes a profit or not.  Bout time half of them packed it in anyway. 

There is also far too many somcalled Dj's who will do it for nothing, just to get behind some decks and get their name on a flyer.

[JimK]

31 minutes ago, chalky said:

Far too may promoters just promoting on a wing and a prayer, hoping they get enough in to cover costs.  The guest Dj should be paid an agreed amount regardless whether the promoter makes a profit or not.  Bout time half of them packed it in anyway. 

There is also far too many somcalled Dj's who will do it for nothing, just to get behind some decks and get their name on a flyer.

Three options these days, tired old 45's ALL night, smaller clubs who take a few chances and mix, and the forward thinkers.  It depends where the money goes but there are some "top dogs" who will still take on a set at the smaller clubs because they give a shit and are happy to take a mid range payment - not because there's a promoter pocketing the rest but because that's all the club can afford.  Isn't it nice finishing a set knowing that everyone (the crowd) goes home happy?

Edited January 6, 2016 by JimK

[Winsford Soul]

As a ex promoter of a large nighter which unfortunately closed a few years back. I can honestly say that every single DJ that graced the decks at Winsford got paid exactly the same from the biggest names to the unknown one. They all done the same job, for the same 1 hour set and all got paid considerably more than there day job would pay per hour. And nobody turned the offer to DJ there down. 

As a ex DJ. I have been paid in various ways. From nothing as a favour to  help get venues up and running to £150 plus travel expenses. And everything in between. But I like most people would have been happy to do it for nothing because of the love of this music. Let's face it ,you couldn't make a living from being a DJ on just the northern soul scene. 

Steve

[Kris Holmes]

For specialist 45 gigs I won't usually play for anything less than $100 as the guest.  Obviously there are exceptions though.  Depends on the situation.  On tour I'll aim for at least $100 to $200 appearance fee/retainer & that can be for anything from a 45min set to multiple set rotations over 4 or 5 hours.  But for example, on tour in Austin last year, I stayed with another DJ for the whole week & during that week played his 2 nights for free.  Sometimes I'll guest for my good friends for free just to go hang out & jam with them & catch up.

Ironically, the more mainstream gigs I do often pay better.  I did 4 hours one night this weekend from Serato off my laptop playing all sorts of stuff for $100 an hour, not a soul 45 in sight.  

[Paul Jnr]

Once a promoter tried to book me to guest and still expect me to pay on the door....not going to name drop  

[Quinvy]

15 minutes ago, Paul Jnr said:

Once a promoter tried to book me to guest and still expect me to pay on the door....not going to name drop  

 brilliant! what a guy. And the way it's going with everyone wanting to Dj, I can see this happening for real.

[Zed1]

11 minutes ago, Quinvy said:

 brilliant! what a guy. And the way it's going with everyone wanting to Dj, I can see this happening for real.

Could be a nice little earner for them......

'Door Tax £5 punters - £10 DJ's'.

 

[Bbrich]

 

58 minutes ago, Zed1 said:

Could be a nice little earner for them......

'Door Tax £5 punters - £10 DJ's'.

 

In future is it likely the dwinding number of dancers will require a fee whilst the dj's & listeners pay ?

[KevH]

On 6 January 2016 at 20:35, chalky said:

Far too may promoters just promoting on a wing and a prayer, hoping they get enough in to cover costs.  The guest Dj should be paid an agreed amount regardless whether the promoter makes a profit or not.  Bout time half of them packed it in anyway. 

There is also far too many somcalled Dj's who will do it for nothing, just to get behind some decks and get their name on a flyer.

So if your names

on the flyer you should be paid,? What if you're doing the promoter a favour by refusing or waiving your "fee".,because you understand the costs of promoting,and a profit is in the balance.? Is paying a big fee a guarantee of a successful night.?

 

[Chalky]

43 minutes ago, KevH said:

So if your names

on the flyer you should be paid,? What if you're doing the promoter a favour by refusing or waiving your "fee".,because you understand the costs of promoting,and a profit is in the balance.? Is paying a big fee a guarantee of a successful night.?

 

Whatever the agreement is it should be honoured regardless of the amount of paying people. If they agree to do it for nowt or waive their fee then that is entirely up to the DJ.  But I know of countless times a promoter has said to a DJ we have only had such and such through the door so can only afford this, that is what I am saying is wrong. 

Nothing a promoter does guarantees a successful night.

[Jnixon]

On 04/01/2016 at 12:43, hermanthegerman said:

I'm recognizing a lot of mid-sized events recently, which have a list of more than 2 or 3 guest DJs, some even from abroad.

Promoting a small Soul do myself I always wonder how promoters can afford to pay at least their guests expenses.

For my part I had also friends over djing for me but at least managed to pay their flight and accomodation plus a fair bit on top.

Most of us do not mind a bit of £££ to buy our next tune, don't we? 

 

Depends who you want to get over I suppose. The answer usually is your own pocket if its a well known face and hope to get it back through door sales.

Sometimes venues will stump up the cash for you ive found.

I have run various DJ events over the last 20+ years mostly small and always found set swaps are a good idea so no money changes hands and both parties get to spin at a new or different place. This is my favourite method aside from paying in records. 

Also used to do simple splits say if the DJ was from same town as us (London) ie we all split the door fees after costs. Sometimes people dont get paid but then we all dont get paid, which is easier to take for all concerned.

We have mainly hired other collector / DJs whos tunes we like or styles we repsect and know from buying and selling records. This is simpler in my view. 

 

 

[Liljimmycrank]

When running That Driving Beat,

every Dj got the same amount of pay (£50) no matter who you were. The attraction of an opportunity to play to a knowledge crowd, good club, open policy and the freedom that every guest Dj was offered was seen by a challenge to most. Money didn't seen to be an issue drawing in top guests/those who got a better payday usually elsewhere.

 

if people travelled further, they'd get a contribution to travel costs or a hotel paid for if they wanted.

i put beer on ice behind the decks for the dj's which cuts the cost of their night down.

 

had European guests on many occasions. I pay for their flights an accommodation but they don't get paid (they don't go wanting though and barely spend a bean, especially if staying at my house)!

 

its the promoters job to pay dj's regardless if attendance. If you can't stomach a loss, don't promote. To be fair, that's one (not the only) reason I stopped doing driving beat.......don't have as deeper pockets these days to cover the occasions when you have lower attended nights due to growing family, and not prepared to compromise on principles.

[Hermanthegerman]

Some good and interesting replies there, thanks for that folks.

Regarding the "I invite you, you invite me" policy: This recently made lot's of the same DJs taking turns at each other's events, so whereever you go (if you travel) you encounter the same line-up.

What about DJs who do not promote for example, are they supposed to stomp up their own event to be invited? Or to dj at all?

I guess that's part of the problem of nowadays event overload.

As a punter I prefer to go to events where at least there is a few surprises in the line-up, but that's just my humble opinion...

[Ncfc]

Thought most top jocks were silver spoons or very rich so don't need fees.

[Dazz]

Always makes me laugh,  on the house scene  Todd Terry turns up with 30 bobs worth of carvers he has cut himself

plays for 2 hours and pockets 4 grand, on the northern scene  insert big name DJ here  turns up with quarter of a   million pounds worth of tunes and gets 30 bob

[Dave Rimmer]

Here's my view:

If I'm booked to DJ I always expect to be paid, A couple of reasons for this. Firstly, it's the promoters job to promote. So it's up to him to try and get enough people through the door to cover all his costs, so it really does piss me off if a promoter says "It's been a quiet night so I can't afford to pay you" Why not ? I turned up and DJ'ed, I did my job, and although I say this myself, there are very few places where I don't get people dancing. I understand if you only had fifty people in, you've probably made a loss, that's the risk you take when promoting. However, if you have five hundred people in, I don't come and ask for extra money !

Secondly, I don't drive, so travel to most places by train (And it's usually with Jessica as well, so that's two lots of train tickets), and usually have to book a B & B if it's somewhere I can't get home in a taxi from. So, once you add a few drinks in, and a couple of meals, my costs to DJ are in excess of £150 anyway, so the fee I get doesn't cover my costs on most occasions.

Two examples of promoters: First one, I DJ'ed in Aberdeen last year, and quoted a figure to DJ. The promoter said that's not enough, and added a hundred quid on top. Furthermore, on the night itself, because there was a good turnout, he gave me an extra fifty quid on top of my fee. 

Second one. I DJ'ed in Weston Super Mare about three years ago. The promoter said he couldn't afford to pay me on the night, but would see me right next time he saw me. I see this guy out and about several times a year. He avoids me, and needless to say, hasn't paid me yet !

Having said all that, there are loads of occasions where I have waived a fee for my own reasons, charity nights, venues I wanted to DJ at etc. The key here though, is I have had a choice about waiving the fee !

[bobkayli]

At the larger events I see some DJs also selling records/cd's etc. when they are not playing so making money in another way. Do promoters charge for this or is it part of the deal (or even goes unspoken)? In it's own way no different to buying artist merchandise at a concert. 

[Hermanthegerman]

I second what Dave wrote, I think being upfront in advance and being fair is the clue....

[Len]

It's about being professional - I have always asked my guest D.Js what their fee is before the event. They should get paid that pre-agreed fee no matter what.

DJs are more than fair on this (As Dave pointed out, most times their fees don't even cover their expenses) I used to have all the DJs wages ready in envelopes before the event, obviously hoping for a decent turnout, that in turn replaced that money I had financed.

Over the years there have been many occasions where a guest D.J has just been happy to do it, which is nice of course, but I have always insisted on paying them (It's only right) On one occasion I gave Cliff Steel £80.00 (A figure I had to come up with as he wasn't too bothered), and he immediately gave me £40.00 back saying it was too much - Even though Cliff lived local to this night, I thought that decent of him.

More recently, I also had to insist on Chalky excepting a fee for D.Jing in 'Lens Den', same with Mick 'n' Mo, and so many others come to think of it.

The point is, D.Jing and Promoting are completely separate things - A promoter should never think their risk is also the D.Js' risk.

All the best,

Len 

 

Edited January 11, 2016 by LEN

[Jnixon]

On 09/01/2016 at 20:24, hermanthegerman said:

Some good and interesting replies there, thanks for that folks.

Regarding the "I invite you, you invite me" policy: This recently made lot's of the same DJs taking turns at each other's events, so whereever you go (if you travel) you encounter the same line-up.

What about DJs who do not promote for example, are they supposed to stomp up their own event to be invited? Or to dj at all?

I guess that's part of the problem of nowadays event overload.

As a punter I prefer to go to events where at least there is a few surprises in the line-up, but that's just my humble opinion...

No, you have to put your hand in your pocket. Simple as that. 

Sadly there is no free way of doing this unless you do swaps or someone else pays for them. Its part of promoting.

There are enough solid record collectors our there to find interesting people with interesting records who can DJ

 

[Daz Mc]

End of the day nobody goes to work for nothing , records cost hard earned money so every DJ should get paid no matter what

[KevH]

On 09 January 2016 at 13:06, chalky said:

Whatever the agreement is it should be honoured regardless of the amount of paying people. If they agree to do it for nowt or waive their fee then that is entirely up to the DJ.  But I know of countless times a promoter has said to a DJ we have only had such and such through the door so can only afford this, that is what I am saying is wrong.

Nothing a promoter does guarantees a successful night.

But what you said earlier was "so called dj's who do it for nothing",now you're saying its up to them.

[KevH]

On 09 January 2016 at 11:17, Zed1 said:

Could be a nice little earner for them......

'Door Tax £5 punters - £10 DJ's'.

 

Make a fortune.

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, KevH said:

But what you said earlier was "so called dj's who do it for nothing",now you're saying its up to them.

Well it is but doesn't mean I agree with it.  When you are taking money on the door then I believe a Dj should be paid.  As said the promoter should act with a certain amount of professionalism and if can't afford to take the hit then get out of promoting.  As also said, rarely does a Djs fee go up if there is a decent turn out.

[Quinvy]

Slightly off topic, but relevant I think. I have lost count of the people who Dj'd for me and were so excited and buzzing because the decks were set up properly with minimal weight on the tone arm, new styli fitted, and the system set up so that their records could be heard clearly throughout the room. When you have gone without the good things in life and spent so much time and money collecting records that move you so much. The last thing you want to do is play them on a system that just sounds like a boom box, or drop an old heavy stylus on your treasured styrene. The feeling you get from playing them on top quality gear to a crowd of like minded individuals, so that every word and fabulous note can be clearly heard is something special.

There are many events where they have good equipment, but it isn't set up correctly. There are many with decks that I wouldn't play my records on for fear of damaging them. I know quite a few people who have got to a venue and just played cheap stuff and cuts of unissued stuff because either the decks look dodgy or every time someone comes up on stage the record jumps. And I don't blame them, but the crowd just think that he/she played a crap set

Too many promoters who totally neglect this, or just haven't a clue how to set their gear up. Never mind paying Dj's, more important to show them some respect by giving them a fantastic experience, and respecting the fact they are playing super rare records for your guests.

[Guest chorleybloke]

Bit of a different system down under where the vast majority of DJs at local events around the country don't get, or expect, any monetary payment.  Free entry and sometimes a pint is the norm at my do.  Suppose this is because we're virtually all mates doing it for the crack.  Bit different at the big weekenders though where visiting (ahem) dignitaries will get payment in kind (beer, food, gifts etc).

I always feel slightly embarrassed when someone presses an envelope into my hand after DJing in UK.

Cheers.............Pete

[Julianb]

2 hours ago, chorleybloke said:

 

I always feel slightly embarrassed when someone presses an envelope into my hand after DJing in UK.

Cheers.............Pete

Hi Pete

You're leaving yourself wide open here, my friend.

Some horrible person might say " I'm not surprised you're embarrassed taking any money after playing that set!

[Winsford Soul]

On ‎10‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 10:05, bobkayli said:

At the larger events I see some DJs also selling records/cd's etc. when they are not playing so making money in another way. Do promoters charge for this or is it part of the deal (or even goes unspoken)? In it's own way no different to buying artist merchandise at a concert. 

Record Dealers pay the entrance fee as any other punter would at nighter,s. Unless you happen to be a dealer at the major weekenders where tables can cost  hundreds of pounds for the privilege just on the off chance that you sell a few tunes to cover table costs before any profit to yourself.

DJ,s who sell at nighter,s don't normally get charged for the privilege of selling their tunes.

Steve

[Pga1]

Got to agree about equipment set up but never set tone arm too light as it can also damage records,  all styluses have certain tracking weights  eg ortofon pro s 4g  sorry if off track (pun) cheers

[Cover-up]

2 hours ago, Pga1 said:

Got to agree about equipment set up but never set tone arm too light as it can also damage records,  all styluses have certain tracking weights  eg ortofon pro s 4g  sorry if off track (pun) cheers

I've never understood how someone can spend £1000+ on a record, but won't stump up £100 for a decent pair of needles for DJing...

[Algsoul]

Note to our Guest DJ’s We understand that your records are valuable, treasured and expensive items. Please be assured our equipment and sound system is first rate. We use Genuine Technics 1210 MK2 turntables and Ortofon Concorde Cartridges. Each turntable is calibrated every time the equipment is setup on the day. Both tone arms are zero balanced, checked for ‘0’ anti-skate, and stylus tracking force is applied at 3gms weight. The styli are checked and replaced regularly too. We have all turned up to DJ at certain clubs and have been expected to play our records on cheap poorly maintained ‘junk’ equipment and worried about what impact it will have on our precious records right??? We respect our records and yours too. So please play your highly prized 45’s with confidence, and be assured that your records are not going to be chiseled and trashed by too much weight, worn Styli, or just badly setup equipment.

[Guest chorleybloke]

10 hours ago, JulianB said:

Hi Pete

You're leaving yourself wide open here, my friend.

Some horrible person might say " I'm not surprised you're embarrassed taking any money after playing that set!

Lol yes I suppose I walked straight into that Julian, maybe "awkward" would have been a better choice of word

[Len]

11 hours ago, cover-up said:

I've never understood how someone can spend £1000+ on a record, but won't stump up £100 for a decent pair of needles for DJing...

It's 'the strange world of Northern Soul'....I remember many years ago I increased the entrance fee to The Embankment Club from £2.50 up to £3.00, and a few people really moaned about it - then headed straight for the record bar to spend a fortune! 

I don't think any D.J is actually bothered about their fee not covering their expenses, it's just the way our Scene is - Although I'm sure most people wouldn't mind paying an extra pound on the door so they do get that little bit extra......but that just wouldn't be right would it? 

Let's hope the 'D.J Union' doesn't cotton on and sends em all out on strike! 

Len 

Edited January 12, 2016 by LEN

[Guest Soultown andy]

As far as im concerned if you cant afford to foot the whole bill for the nite [room door staff equipment djs resident and guests],you shouldnt be promoteing.And fuck that u dj here if i can dj at urs,thats why theres so many mickey mouse promotions these days.Spare needles decks and amp will always be there at the decent venues ,and likewise djs and staff will be paid.Anyone can promote but i think most peeps know the decent well run venues,yet some of the cowboys get good support so theirs no real answer to it.

[Gerry H]

its not about money that's a bonus it`s being an honour of being ask to dj at a venue and a buzz to look over the decks and watch the floor buzzing that's better than all the money in the world imo

[tosspot]

A few kind words, a pat on the back, & maybe the petrol money (that's if the club isn't running at a loss) ,or just a pint or 2, that's all I need

[Quinvy]

1 hour ago, Soultown andy said:

As far as im concerned if you cant afford to foot the whole bill for the nite [room door staff equipment djs resident and guests],you shouldnt be promoteing.And fuck that u dj here if i can dj at urs,thats why theres so many mickey mouse promotions these days.Spare needles decks and amp will always be there at the decent venues ,and likewise djs and staff will be paid.Anyone can promote but i think most peeps know the decent well run venues,yet some of the cowboys get good support so theirs no real answer to it.

Come on Andy, I Dj'd for you a few years ago at Keele and never got paid. Not bothered at all, but just saying like.

[Lionelonthevinyl]

45 minutes ago, tosspot said:

A few kind words, a pat on the back, & maybe the petrol money (that's if the club isn't running at a loss) ,or just a pint or 2, that's all I need

That's exactly what I hear about all the djs who do the circuit and not just play the big venues....all great chaps/ladies who won't EVER make a fortune from what they do....dedicated to the music they love, and basically get paid pro rata to the venue they play at....so generally never a fortune...guys/ladies I thank you because your the guys who give up your time for very little. Thank you...Rob

Edited January 12, 2016 by Lionelonthevinyl

[Lionelonthevinyl]

9 minutes ago, Lionelonthevinyl said:

That's exactly what I hear about all the djs who do the circuit and not just play the big venues....all great chaps/ladies who won't EVER make a fortune from what they do....dedicated to the music they love, and basically get paid pro rata to the venue they play at....so generally never a fortune...guys/ladies I thank you because your the people who give up your time for for very little. Thank you...Rob

Whoops sorry, re posted.....Rob

Edited January 12, 2016 by Lionelonthevinyl

[Pga1]

Always happy to be paid with beer, though have been told by various promoters, landlords it's  cheaper to pay me a fee !!  Cheers 

[Spanner]

I pay guest with a pork pie and few pounds

[Spanner]

2 hours ago, tosspot said:

A few kind words, a pat on the back, & maybe the petrol money (that's if the club isn't running at a loss) ,or just a pint or 2, that's all I need

cheers m8